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News ► Dual wielding returns with Kingdom Hearts III's Oathkeeper and Oblivion new formchange



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DrShimo

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So did PVP and that's absolutely hilarious. Nomura is so hot on making everything canon, and he's constantly telling the fanbase to figure things out, but when the fans do that people get mad.

It's only plot hole, y u heff 2 b mad
Also that there are canon concert scenes and that if Sora ever did appear in Smash, it would likely be canon and explained away somehow. And that in KHUX even the medal mechanics are canon
 

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I didn't read all of the pages, but I'd just like to point out that everyone is stressed out about dual wielding when we NEVER got a proper explanation on how the Keyblades in general work in the first place.

Originally back in KH1 there was only one Keyblade: THE Keyblade, the one Sora used. We knew it was meant for Riku but then Sora earned his. Mickey got his, but at the time we didn't know he was actually a proper wielder too, just that his Keyblade was from the Realm of Darkness.

Then Days had Sora and Roxas SIMUTANEOUSLY using the Kingdom Key. Not Ventus Keyblade taking the form of the Kingdom Key, but the actual damn thing. And then Xion and Roxas after Sora went into hibernation, and then Xion gets her own Keyblade.

Birth By Sleep then happened and we found out about the inheritance, but it was never properly explained how it worked either: With Kairi's it seems like what she got was the power to wield one and not Aqua's Keyblade as a whole, while with Riku and Terra we know it's his actual Keyblade being passed on. And again, he uses it just fine when he comes back even though the actual thing is with Sora right now.

X and Union X show us that the MoM forges the first Keyblades as an imitation of the Chi Blade, but we never get proper explanations for that whole method either.

My point being: we all just kind of go along with the justification that people dual wielded in the past because they had more than one heart within them, but it was never flat out stated that this is the only way to do so or anything.

We have seen new Keyblade users pop up without having to go through Inheritance cerimony nor having their Keyblades forged by a Union Leader (Sora, Data-Sora, Xion, Repliku, Lea, theorically Roxas as well).

We barely have any rules explaining how the Keyblade work or what the powers of a Master are because Birth By Sleep and X never took the time to do so and the entire Xehanort saga had Sora do things without the guidance of a master.

This isn't even a situation where Nomura has to retcon anything because there were never any stablished rules in the first place, just a bunch of fan assumptions that we just kinda took as rules with time.

(And I'm not saying this is wrong because I definitely did that as well and it's the game's fault in the first place for not stablishing things)
 

AdrianXXII

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I didn't read all of the pages, but I'd just like to point out that everyone is stressed out about dual wielding when we NEVER got a proper explanation on how the Keyblades in general work in the first place.

Originally back in KH1 there was only one Keyblade: THE Keyblade, the one Sora used. We knew it was meant for Riku but then Sora earned his. Mickey got his, but at the time we didn't know he was actually a proper wielder too, just that his Keyblade was from the Realm of Darkness.

Then Days had Sora and Roxas SIMUTANEOUSLY using the Kingdom Key. Not Ventus Keyblade taking the form of the Kingdom Key, but the actual damn thing. And then Xion and Roxas after Sora went into hibernation, and then Xion gets her own Keyblade.

Birth By Sleep then happened and we found out about the inheritance, but it was never properly explained how it worked either: With Kairi's it seems like what she got was the power to wield one and not Aqua's Keyblade as a whole, while with Riku and Terra we know it's his actual Keyblade being passed on. And again, he uses it just fine when he comes back even though the actual thing is with Sora right now.

X and Union X show us that the MoM forges the first Keyblades as an imitation of the Chi Blade, but we never get proper explanations for that whole method either.

My point being: we all just kind of go along with the justification that people dual wielded in the past because they had more than one heart within them, but it was never flat out stated that this is the only way to do so or anything.

We have seen new Keyblade users pop up without having to go through Inheritance cerimony nor having their Keyblades forged by a Union Leader (Sora, Data-Sora, Xion, Repliku, Lea, theorically Roxas as well).

We barely have any rules explaining how the Keyblade work or what the powers of a Master are because Birth By Sleep and X never took the time to do so and the entire Xehanort saga had Sora do things without the guidance of a master.

This isn't even a situation where Nomura has to retcon anything because there were never any stablished rules in the first place, just a bunch of fan assumptions that we just kinda took as rules with time.

(And I'm not saying this is wrong because I definitely did that as well and it's the game's fault in the first place for not stablishing things)
Yeah this is basically the issue. In KH1 the basic explanation they gave was enough for the story, but at some point they should have developed and established the Keyblade and it's lore more concretely. At the moment it's just the McGuffin that can do whatever whenever needed. We've had multiple good opportunities to fix that, but neither BBS, DDD nor KH3 felt the need to take the opportunity.

Same goes for the Princess of Hearts and the powers they possess. What we got works for a short one of story, but not an ongoing one. But I feel it's intentional so that the writers have more flexibility moving forward.

Also the thing with the two hearts isn't just a fan theory, but something that Nomura stated outside of the games in interviews. Needing to hearts was the only way we were told someone can wield. Over the years aspects of the Keyblade were introduced then dropped to not really be relevant any more. Like the Keyblade choosing someone, well now some people are just handed new ones or you can forge a new one out of your heart.
 

Noivern

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Also the thing with the two hearts isn't just a fan theory, but something that Nomura stated outside of the games in interviews. Needing to hearts was the only way we were told someone can wield. Over the years aspects of the Keyblade were introduced then dropped to not really be relevant any more. Like the Keyblade choosing someone, well now some people are just handed new ones or you can forge a new one out of your heart.
To be honest, most of the time we get canonical information it's very rare for it to be precise, canonical lore from the hands of Nomura himself. Most of the time we just have what is stablished in the games but from the very start it was showcase that the characters themselves have limited knowledge of things, with us believing in Ansem and in his reports only for two games later we find out Ansem was a fake.

In the case of the Keyblade, I believe the other characters were choosen by theirs as well; It's not like they were forged in the same vein as the generic wielders from the Era of Fairytales.

But yeah, I feel like we as a fanbase really need to reread things and actually take the time to separate what is PROPER canon lore and what we just assumed as a collective hivemind through the years, really. And even with canon lore things can't always be 100% trusted because information in-universe is always changing because Kingdom Hearts deals a lot with science and things having to be proven and tested, even if it the method isn't always necessarily correct by our standarts, lol.

We always took the Dual Wield aspect as something incredible because, visually speaking, it's really cool. But in-universe the characters never really reacted wildly to it, just like we never really had Sora be astounished by the things Lingering Will does with his Keyblade (unlike us players). Heck, no one even really cared about Roxas dual wielding in the Graveyard.

Sora had access to Ventus Keyblade, and probably Roxas and Xion as well. The same goes for Roxas, except replacing his with Sora's, obviously. As Nomura himself stated that characters have used the same Keyblade simutaneously before, I'll assume the same thing is happening here: Sora is simutaneously using someone else's Keyblade alongside his own for the form change.
 

AdrianXXII

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To be honest, most of the time we get canonical information it's very rare for it to be precise, canonical lore from the hands of Nomura himself. Most of the time we just have what is stablished in the games but from the very start it was showcase that the characters themselves have limited knowledge of things, with us believing in Ansem and in his reports only for two games later we find out Ansem was a fake.

In the case of the Keyblade, I believe the other characters were choosen by theirs as well; It's not like they were forged in the same vein as the generic wielders from the Era of Fairytales.

But yeah, I feel like we as a fanbase really need to reread things and actually take the time to separate what is PROPER canon lore and what we just assumed as a collective hivemind through the years, really. And even with canon lore things can't always be 100% trusted because information in-universe is always changing because Kingdom Hearts deals a lot with science and things having to be proven and tested, even if it the method isn't always necessarily correct by our standarts, lol.

We always took the Dual Wield aspect as something incredible because, visually speaking, it's really cool. But in-universe the characters never really reacted wildly to it, just like we never really had Sora be astounished by the things Lingering Will does with his Keyblade (unlike us players). Heck, no one even really cared about Roxas dual wielding in the Graveyard.

Sora had access to Ventus Keyblade, and probably Roxas and Xion as well. The same goes for Roxas, except replacing his with Sora's, obviously. As Nomura himself stated that characters have used the same Keyblade simutaneously before, I'll assume the same thing is happening here: Sora is simutaneously using someone else's Keyblade alongside his own for the form change.
Yeah, it'd be great, if someone could go through the games and collect all the information we get through out the games high light, which ones are disproven later and which ones are just hinted at.

Though honestly i do think it'd help, if we'd get a game that would just sit us down and give us a proper description of what the keyblade can do and how the different types differ from one another. It doesn't have to reveal all it secrets and new elements could still be introduced, but we'd at least understand what the basic rules of it are.

The glossaries we get kinda just dance around it.
 

KeybladeLordSora

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I'm gonna go with the explanation that Dual Wielding is an ability that can be awakened with having two hearts, and it stays with you even if the other heart is gone.

That or the simultaneous keyblade usage thing returns.

OTHER than that, I'm also gonna see this the same way I see absorbing party members for Drive Forms in KH2 and DMC5's Irregular Full Custom ability. Purely gameplay-based.

And as for Roxas, I'd chalk it up to Ansem the Wise's data on him having dual wielding as part of it.
 

Violet Pluto

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Originally back in KH1 there was only one Keyblade: THE Keyblade, the one Sora used. We knew it was meant for Riku but then Sora earned his. Mickey got his, but at the time we didn't know he was actually a proper wielder too, just that his Keyblade was from the Realm of Darkness.

Then Days had Sora and Roxas SIMUTANEOUSLY using the Kingdom Key. Not Ventus Keyblade taking the form of the Kingdom Key, but the actual damn thing. And then Xion and Roxas after Sora went into hibernation, and then Xion gets her own Keyblade.

Birth By Sleep then happened and we found out about the inheritance, but it was never properly explained how it worked either: With Kairi's it seems like what she got was the power to wield one and not Aqua's Keyblade as a whole, while with Riku and Terra we know it's his actual Keyblade being passed on. And again, he uses it just fine when he comes back even though the actual thing is with Sora right now.
The Keyblade that Sora has now, isn't Terra's, it's the Keyblade given by the Realm of Light, even through all of the retcons that hasn't changed. Riku was in line for Terra's but the worlds gave him a Keyblade because they were in trouble and he was a Keyblade wielder in the Realm of Light (retcons are very confusing.) It's only because the Keyblade that Sora has is so special that it could change users to a non-user like Sora, or even flip-flop between him and Riku. I thought Nomura would just forget about that and make it disappear with the new canon, but then in 0.2 he references it through Mickey, which kind of makes things even more murky.
 

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The Keyblade that Sora has now, isn't Terra's, it's the Keyblade given by the Realm of Light, even through all of the retcons that hasn't changed. Riku was in line for Terra's but the worlds gave him a Keyblade because they were in trouble and he was a Keyblade wielder in the Realm of Light (retcons are very confusing.) It's only because the Keyblade that Sora has is so special that it could change users to a non-user like Sora, or even flip-flop between him and Riku. I thought Nomura would just forget about that and make it disappear with the new canon, but then in 0.2 he references it through Mickey, which kind of makes things even more murky.
.. What are you talking about, lol. All Keyblades we've seen are Keyblades from the Realm of Light, Mickey's Kingdom Key D being the only know one to come from the realm of Darkness.
Sora's Keyblade is flat out stated to be Terra's and there's nothing special about the Kingdom Key keychain as far as we currently know, Sora's achievments having to do with him and not his specific Keyblade.
The reason he got the Keyblade when Riku wasn't avaiable is most likely because of Ventus heart making him fit to wield one, and then later on it choose him by it's own will (however Keyblade wills work, anyways).
 

OneDandelion

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Then maybe this second keyblade could be the one gifted to Sora through the realm of light in addition to Terra's. Or maybe when Sora made contact with Ephemer and jumped on the keyblades in the keyblade graveyard another one was granted to him.
 

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Since when is Sora's Keyblade Terra's? He still has his own Keyblade available to him. The inheritance ceremony does not pass down actual specific Keyblades.
Yeah I was confused by that too. I remember Terra choosing Riku to receive a Keyblade and the Lingering Will being confused why Sora had a Keyblade when he chose Riku to and not him.
I don't recall Sora's Keyblade ever being said to be Terra's but I can't rule out a interview stating that being out there.
 

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This DLC is really making me lament waiting until I got Ultima before heading into Critical (screw the sledding mini-game!)

Aw, but can you imagine all the salt the other Guardians must feel everytime they see Sora use Form Changes? He gets all this cool shit from the 3 Fairies, while they're stuck with fabric that just wards of darkness. Poor kiddies 🥺

Like.. even from a strategical standpoint it would make sense to give all the GoL that kind of arsenal. But then, we are talking about Yen Sid here, so this is more par for the course, lol.
Reminds me of some "Why doesn't every Avenger get an Iron Man suit" arguments I've seen. :p
 

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I was actually under the impression that Sora's orginal keyblade was Ven's, especially because the kingdom key is half of the Xblade, appearing in his time of need and eventually accepting him over time. It seems the only evidence that Sora's keyblade was Terra's was that Riku was somewhat able to manipulate it in the first game, eventually taking it away from him for a short period.

But if we're to believe that Sora was granted his first keyblade because he was accepted by Ven's keyblade I don't think it would be a far cry to say the same thing could have happened for Roxas' or Xion's heart. The obvious problem this would introduce is "can keyblade's be duplicated?" And being that we don't know how they're made or where they come from it's impossible to say. So personally I don't care, I'm willing to suspend my disbelief at Sora duel wielding keyblades until these answers become more clear
 

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Yeah I was confused by that too. I remember Terra choosing Riku to receive a Keyblade and the Lingering Will being confused why Sora had a Keyblade when he chose Riku to and not him.
I don't recall Sora's Keyblade ever being said to be Terra's but I can't rule out a interview stating that being out there.
I was actually under the impression that Sora's orginal keyblade was Ven's, especially because the kingdom key is half of the Xblade, appearing in his time of need and eventually accepting him over time. It seems the only evidence that Sora's keyblade was Terra's was that Riku was somewhat able to manipulate it in the first game, eventually taking it away from him for a short period.
I understood that it was his ctual Keyblade because of what Lingering Will says, yeah. It makes no sense for him to be able to sense that Sora "isn't the one" if his Keyblade had nothing to do with him in the first place, specially since he did not recognize him in the first place. It's not like LW was just waiting for Riku to show up at the graveyard either.

Plus, Riku being able to take his Keyblade away. Although we have seen other Keyblade wielders pick up someone else's Keyblades before, that specific situation was the only time I can remember we've seen the Keyblade actually be taken by force and through materialization instead of just grabbing it physically mid-fight.

But it doesn't surprise me if I'm wrong here since they never bothered to explain how the whole Keyblade-Ownership works lol
 

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.. What are you talking about, lol. All Keyblades we've seen are Keyblades from the Realm of Light, Mickey's Kingdom Key D being the only know one to come from the realm of Darkness.
Sora's Keyblade is flat out stated to be Terra's and there's nothing special about the Kingdom Key keychain as far as we currently know, Sora's achievments having to do with him and not his specific Keyblade.
The reason he got the Keyblade when Riku wasn't avaiable is most likely because of Ventus heart making him fit to wield one, and then later on it choose him by it's own will (however Keyblade wills work, anyways).
I never said that it was from the Realm of Light (which it is) I stated that it was given BY the Realm of Light. That's how it is explained in the first game, and in 0.2 Mickey alludes to the fact that the Keyblade in the Realm of Light that Sora wields is the counterpart to the Kingdom Key D, the Keyblade that is important to the Realm of Darkness. That's why it's so weird (and I thought that was why everyone was weirded out by) that the Kingdom Key D is broken and then mixed with the Star Seeker because KKD was Plot Important in the first game, and because 0.2 was right before 3 and he called attention back to the KKD and it's origins why then have it break and then be mixed with a Keyblade from the Realm of Light?
 
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