News ► Dual wielding returns with Kingdom Hearts III's Oathkeeper and Oblivion new formchange

[Twilight Lumiair]

There’s is an in universe explanation for Roxas, his body is a Replica. CoM and Days show and tell us that given the right data and memories, Replicas can recreate appearances and weapons. The prologue makes a big deal about Roxas’ data because it’s vital for his body recreation. The game gives us context for that, not so much Sora.

Which is simple really, all they have to say his clothes gave the ability to duplicate his Keyblade.

I could actually see this being the explanation they go with XD

Aw, but can you imagine all the salt the other Guardians must feel everytime they see Sora use Form Changes? He gets all this cool shit from the 3 Fairies, while they're stuck with fabric that just wards of darkness. Poor kiddies

Like.. even from a strategical standpoint it would make sense to give all the GoL that kind of arsenal. But then, we are talking about Yen Sid here, so this is more par for the course, lol.

I can't really defend Nomura's constant trashing of his own lore but I wouldn't be surprised if we do get some kind of reason. For example, if Sora's heart travels back into the past in ReMind and inhabits his past self, then arguably he will have two hearts inside him, albeit both 'Sora'.

A bit roundabout & overly convoluted, but right up Nomura's alley at this point, lol.

On that note, if he ever does come out and attempt to explain this move, do you think he'll go for the simple answer, or the convoluted one? That's something I'd be very curious to hear people's thoughts on.

Glad I'm not the only one who wasn't concerned with dual-wielding. Like it's cool and all but of all the problems with KH3, the lack of dual-wielding was not one of them for me.

Same. I liked dual wielding too (got nothing against the mechanic), but I was perfectly willing to say goodbye to it for the sake of preserving continuity. I've since learned how misplaced my priorities apparently were, sadly..

This possibility also crossed my mind, makes sense seeing he's in a replica body. I figure that Xion's Keyblade in KH3 is still a replica Keyblade. Not that I don't think she and Roxas aren't worthy I just feel like they haven't been picked by their own keyblades yet.

It would've been fascinating if Roxas and Xion obtaining their own personal Keyblades was framed as a part of the journey for them to earn their humanity. Since Keyblades are cannonically forged from hearts, it could've stood as the ultimate proof of their existence (similar to what happened with Data-Sora). But alas, that's the story we didn't get.

 

[Absent]

Kinda forgot Xion had a fake Keyblade. So what, everyone is headcanoning that Roxas' are shams now too lol? That doesn't really make sense considering he wasn't created as a replica.

Whatever happened to Keyblade sharing? That would open the way for so many loopholes regarding who owns their own Keyblade and how many of them exist at the same time. Is that oldschool fanon? Am I out of touch?

Nobody said he was created as one but using one. The game hammers in that they’re using Replicas as body substitutes.

 

[Ryuman]

Nobody said he was created as one but using one. The game hammers in that they’re using Replicas as body substitutes.

Sure, but I suppose I have trouble with accepting the idea that he's using fake Keyblades without any confirmation.

 

[SuperSaiyanSora]

Nobody said he was created as one but using one. The game hammers in that they’re using Replicas as body substitutes.

This is true. They also make it a point to say that with these new Replica bodies, they essentially become people, so for all intents and purposes, Roxas and Xion should count as Somebodies now.

I like the idea that the Replica body just gave him Data-Roxas's memories and those Keyblades he's using are Replicas, since it sounds like that's the road Nomura might take. Xion's Keyblade is a Replica, so maybe it's the same for Roxas too.

I'm not sure if this was ever explained lore-wise, but do we know the difference between a replica Keyblade and a real one? Cause it seems to me that a replica more or less functions like a real one, but the replica just might not be as durable or something.

 

[Nukara]

Sora cannot own two keyblades: "Nomura give us double ownership".
Now Sora can own two keyblades, fans are again unhappy.

 

[lycropath]

Heh... Bye bye lore. Thought you needed two hearts to pull this off, but I guess we're saying it's ok now, right? Gotta love the power of fan service, lol.

The series has hard enough time sticking to the lore that's actually in the games. it wouldn't be the first time that secondary canon like an interview has been quietly exiled from continuity without actually making it into a game. Like Young Xehanort being from a time before he had the keyblade.

But to be honest for me I see no harm ignoring a magazine interview about a vague mystery that never really needed to be explained or given a rule in the first place.

I wonder if any of the Seekers will have big Darkness resistence though, might hamper Oblivion's handiness in comparison to Oathkeeper which is presumably Non-Elemental.

 

[SuperSaiyanSora]

Sora cannot own two keyblades: "Nomura give us double ownership".
Now Sora can own two keyblades, fans are again unhappy.

I don't think people are unhappy, it's really just a lore question that we haven't really had the answer to since the game came out, and now the question is even bigger.

Mind you though, most fans are hyped over dual-wielding coming back, so don't worry too much about that. Plus since Nomura made the comment about Utada wielding two Keyblades in the Face My Fears cover art and him joking about her having two hearts, and that song is a year old (and that song came out before KH3), I like to think that he probably knows that he's gonna have to explain it sooner or later. It's just a matter of when or where it gets explained hopefully.

 

[Ryuman]

I'm hoping for a new Ultimania or similar publication. I haven't found the last ones to be particularly illuminating.

 

[U.N. Owen]

I guess we can wave the lore of the two keyblades the same way Star Wars Legends justified the Force mechanics of KOTOR I, II, The Force Unleashed I, II, and more: mechanics aren't necessarily canon or are exaggerated for the purposes of a video game.

 

[GreyouTT]

Where is this source for this requirement?

Beating crit gives you an item that has the same style as Oblivion. So people are inferring that's how it gets unlocked.

 

[Twilight Lumiair]

I'm not sure if this was ever explained lore-wise, but do we know the difference between a replica Keyblade and a real one? Cause it seems to me that a replica more or less functions like a real one, but the replica just might not be as durable or something.

You're actually not far off. Data-Sora's original fabricated Keyblade was said to possess all the abilities of a real one (much to Mickeys surprise), but since it was just a replica, "it didn't have any substance." Which is also why Maleficent was able to destroy it so easily. It wasn't until later on that he received a true Keyblade (implied to be born out of his newly formed heart).

Similarly, Xion's replica Keyblade could capture and contain hearts like Roxas' real (albiet borrowed) one. But when it came time for her to face Riku, he dismissed as a sham. "Worthless." He also used the analogy of "fighting fire with sparks", implying it was similar in nature, but far less impressive.

The series has hard enough time sticking to the lore that's actually in the games. it wouldn't be the first time that secondary canon like an interview has been quietly exiled from continuity without actually making it into a game. Like Young Xehanort being from a time before he had the keyblade.

Lol, true enough I suppose. Though to be fair, it was stated more than once by Nomura that YX was using Master Xehanort's Keyblade, in addition to Ansem SoD's powers (allowing him to manipulate time). So he technically still could be seen as untrained, even though I agree it became a bit of a stretch by the end of KH3.

— Did King Mickey’s time magic not work properly on Young Xehanort because Young Xehanort has the power to control time?

Nomura: Not Young Xehanort’s but rather Master Xehanort’s power. King Mickey was surprised at the time, seeing his Keyblade and noticing he harboured the power of Master Xehanort. That Keyblade was designed as the one Master Xehanort used in KHBBS combined with an hourglass, you see.

Again, this gets a bit iffy when we consider the trio Xehanort fight at the end of KH3, but it still holds up to a point.

But to be honest for me I see no harm ignoring a magazine interview about a vague mystery that never really needed to be explained or given a rule in the first place.

Are the Ultimania's really just magazine interviews? I've never actually seen a physical copy myself (just their translations), so I'm not sure.

 

[GreyouTT]

This is true. They also make it a point to say that with these new Replica bodies, they essentially become people, so for all intents and purposes, Roxas and Xion should count as Somebodies now.

I like the idea that the Replica body just gave him Data-Roxas's memories and those Keyblades he's using are Replicas, since it sounds like that's the road Nomura might take. Xion's Keyblade is a Replica, so maybe it's the same for Roxas too.

I'm not sure if this was ever explained lore-wise, but do we know the difference between a replica Keyblade and a real one? Cause it seems to me that a replica more or less functions like a real one, but the replica just might not be as durable or something.

Maleficent easily broke Data-Sora's replica blade, so they must be easy to break if you really tried. Though he got his own real blade after, so I think Xion and Roxas would as well.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

Are the Ultimania's really just magazine interviews? I've never actually seen a physical copy myself (just their translations), so I'm not sure.

No, they are massive books that are guides for the games. They feature character bios, world descriptions, actual walkthroughs, enemy and boss stats, artwork, and then each section of the book also contains interviews from key staff. The Ultimanias are the go-to lore books.

 

[lycropath]

The point that makes Young Xehanort's interview backstory impossible is that the Boy in Black is younger then Young Xehanort and is just shy of taking his Mark of Mastery. The backstory originally laid out of Young Xehanort was that he had never left the islands yet and had not come to ever wield the keyblade before Master Xehanort possessed him directly.

 

[GreyouTT]

The point that makes Young Xehanort's interview backstory impossible is that the Boy in Black is younger then Young Xehanort and is just shy of taking his Mark of Mastery. The backstory originally laid out of Young Xehanort was that he had never left the islands yet and had not come to ever wield the keyblade before Master Xehanort possessed him directly.

I think it's just the new artstyle and graphics making characters look younger than they are. Kairi as an example.

 

[lycropath]

I think it's just the new artstyle and graphics making characters look younger than they are. Kairi as an example.

The model for the Boy in Black in the journal is about a foot shorter then Young Xehanort's model and has a different and younger head including Xehanort's original not yellow eye colour he had before he met the Master of Masters. Its definitely not an illusion of hairstyle like Kairi.

 

[SweetYetSalty]

Maleficent easily broke Data-Sora's replica blade, so they must be easy to break if you really tried. Though he got his own real blade after, so I think Xion and Roxas would as well.

The irony is that Xion's "sham" Keyblade never broke once in the series in comparison to Riku, Mickey, and Lea's "real" ones lol. It would be nice to get more info on replica Keyblades and how they differ. By KH3 Xion's Keyblade works just the same as everyone elses and I suspect that Roxas's Keyblades are also Replicas.

There is also the Xehanort Replicas we see fighting the heroes and they all have No Name Keyblades, all of them must be Replica Keyblades right? Replicas became huge in KH3. They really are going to take over. We should fear Vexen, creator of life.

 

[Absent]

The irony is that Xion's "sham" Keyblade never broke once in the series in comparison to Riku, Mickey, and Lea's "real" ones lol. It would be nice to get more info on replica Keyblades and how they differ. By KH3 Xion's Keyblade works just the same as everyone elses and I suspect that Roxas's Keyblades are also Replicas.

There is also the Xehanort Replicas we see fighting the heroes and they all have No Name Keyblades, all of them must be Replica Keyblades right? Replicas became huge in KH3. They really are going to take over. We should fear Vexen, creator of life.

God I forgot how much I hated that they did that. The distinction between real and fake is made more irrelevant by that.

 

[GreyouTT]

The model for the Boy in Black in the journal is about a foot shorter then Young Xehanort's model and has a different and younger head including Xehanort's original not yellow eye colour he had before he met the Master of Masters. Its definitely not an illusion of hairstyle like Kairi.

Well, got me then. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[lycropath]

God I forgot how much I hated that they did that. The distinction between real and fake is made more irrelevant by that.

Really it just shows how good Vexen's work is.