News ► Dual wielding returns with Kingdom Hearts III's Oathkeeper and Oblivion new formchange

[2 quid is good]

Hnnnnnnnnnng oathkeeper and oblivion being used as they should be

Heh... Bye bye lore. Thought you needed two hearts to pull this off, but I guess we're saying it's ok now, right? Gotta love the power of fan service, lol.

That went out when Roxas came back with both xD

 

[Absent]

At least with Roxas you could argue that his Replica body created copies from the data Ienzo used.

 

[GreyouTT]

People were complaining about the lack of dual wielding gameplay. So it's damned if they do, damned if they don't I guess.

 

[Gray Aria]

I was out of the loop for a while and found out about the requirements for Oblivion a week ago while I was away from home. Now scrambling to finish a new game + on Critical mode in time for this update.

 

[legacier]

People were complaining about the lack of dual wielding gameplay. So it's damned if they do, damned if they don't I guess.

Yup, that's the way it goes. As far as I remember there wasn't an in-game explanation for it in the first place, just an ad-hoc answer Nomura gave and didn't really stick to. Whatever justification they give (or don't give), it's not so unbelievable that Sora could retain the ability, and it makes the game more fun, so who cares.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

People were complaining about the lack of dual wielding gameplay. So it's damned if they do, damned if they don't I guess.

If it's just about dual-wielding gameplay all they would have needed to do was making Roxas playable more. It's his specialty after all.
Giving it to Sora now as well again makes him just look more like an all-powerful plot device who gets every gimmick and ability of all the other characters.

 

[drew0512]

If it's just about dual-wielding gameplay all they would have needed to do was making Roxas playable more. It's his specialty after all.
Giving it to Sora now as well again makes him just look more like an all-powerful plot device who gets every gimmick and ability of all the other characters.

Sora gameplay is implied (Drive forms).

 

[SuperSaiyanSora]

People were complaining about the lack of dual wielding gameplay. So it's damned if they do, damned if they don't I guess.

Yeah. I mean to be fair, they should explain why Roxas is able to dual-wield again, now that everyone's hearts should be in their right places... So I think the confusion is understandable, far as we know, you need two hearts. But if Roxas can do it, it makes sense that Sora can too. And dual-wielding Sora was a feature that a lot of fans were disappointed that it didn't show up in KH3.

...Actually, I wonder. I think it was said that ReMind was post-game content, but they never exactly said that was the case for the Limit Cut episode, right? Cause you could theoretically have the Organization XIII battles take place before Roxas's return and therefore Sora would have the requirements for dual-wielding. It'd be weird timing, but that's one way.

Another idea is that Sora's heart remembers how to do it, and either it's a strain on his heart due to how unnatural it is or he's somehow splitting his Keyblade in half, and each half is its own Keyblade (or rather, each half takes the form of one Keyblade). Something to note is that it's a Formchange, so Double Form just might be a Keyblade Transformation that allows him to do it. Sora dual-wields with guns already, and he was never able to do it outside of a Drive Form in KH2 (except for that one time when he and Riku were fighting Xemnas at the end of the game) so the precedent is there and isn't too strange if this is the case. So he's not "truly" dual-wielding, because it's still one Keyblade.

 

[AR829038]

I've gotta say, I find it ridiculous that people are actually complaining about the "lore being ruined" with this. More than likely, the people complaining about the narrative continuity of this one-off mechanic were big fans of the Data-Organization battles in KH2, which made absolutely no narrative sense whatsoever. I mean, nobody asks why the Organization's members were all recreated as data exclusively for the purposes of fighting people who happened to wander deep enough through the Cavern of Remembrance to find some computers. People just accepted it. Why? Because some things in Kingdom Hearts are just meant to be fun gameplay, they aren't necessarily meant to cohere to the dense thicket that is the series lore.
And anyway, contrary to what Twilight Lumiair said, Sora dual wielding does NOT contradict said lore. It was never established that a person had to have two hearts actually inside them in order to be able to dual wield Keyblades. Roxas dual wielded without Xion being inside him (she had returned to Sora at this point and was NOT inside Roxas' heart). The connection was enough to be able to wield her Keyblade in tandem with his own. Just so, Sora's connections are enough for him to be able to dual wield.

 

[drew0512]

I've gotta say, I find it ridiculous that people are actually complaining about the "lore being ruined" with this. More than likely, the people complaining about the narrative continuity of this one-off mechanic were big fans of the Data-Organization battles in KH2, which made absolutely no narrative sense whatsoever. I mean, nobody asks why the Organization's members were all recreated as data exclusively for the purposes of fighting people who happened to wander deep enough through the Cavern of Remembrance to find some computers. People just accepted it. Why? Because some things in Kingdom Hearts are just meant to be fun gameplay, they aren't necessarily meant to cohere to the dense thicket that is the series lore.
And anyway, contrary to what Twilight Lumiair said, Sora dual wielding does NOT contradict said lore. It was never established that a person had to have two hearts actually inside them in order to be able to dual wield Keyblades. Roxas dual wielded without Xion being inside him (she had returned to Sora at this point and was NOT inside Roxas' heart). The connection was enough to be able to wield her Keyblade in tandem with his own. Just so, Sora's connections are enough for him to be able to dual wield.

Besides, just like SuperSayanSora said, it's just a transformation. Sora already dual wields in the game, so this is nothing new. He's still equipping one keyblade.

 

[MATGSY]

Heh... Bye bye lore. Thought you needed two hearts to pull this off, but I guess we're saying it's ok now, right? Gotta love the power of fan service, lol.

I'm still trying to figure Roxas out.

 

[rokudamia2]

I'm still trying to figure Roxas out.

Oust of universe dual wielding is what Roxas is iconic for.

 

[SuperSaiyanSora]

Besides, just like SuperSayanSora said, it's just a transformation. Sora already dual wields in the game, so this is nothing new. He's still equipping one keyblade.

Right. Well, in terms of Roxas, I think he was able to dual-wield because he had Ven's heart inside him. Once Xion was defeated and Roxas received his power back, that was when he dual-wielded for the first time (if memory serves).

But yes. Sora has two guns, two gauntlets, ice skates... His Keyblade can transform into whatever it needs to be. We saw Dark Form, and we saw Light Form... Oblivion and Oathkeeper, respectively. And when we saw both forms, we never saw him dual-wielding before, so this is a brand new thing to KH3 we're seeing right now. We don't know how it's activated, so it's quite possible there's another Keyblade you get in order to trigger this particular Formchange, or you have to have both Oathkeeper and Oblivion equipped. And then you'd select between whichever Keyblade's Formchange that's currently being used and Double Form, similar to how you could have both Highwind's and Rage Form's Situation Commands pop up at the same time if certain conditions are met.

In the end though, Data Battles have never been canon (I'm pretty sure at least), so maybe this Formchange is the same way -- not canon, but just really cool as a gameplay feature cause people wanted it. We only have two pictures to go on, so there's so many things that need to be answered, like how you even activate this Formchange.

 

[AmaryllisMoth]

We only have two pictures to go on, so there's so many things that need to be answered, like how you even activate this Formchange.

My guess is maybe you have to have both Oathkeeper and Oblivion equipped? Or maybe because we know that keyblades can "save" their transformation if you switch to another mid-combat then maybe what you are supposed to do is transform one, then swap to the other before the bar runs out and once you transform the second one it sends you into this alternate form instead and uses both keyblades' form changes?

That's the only thing I can think of that makes sense.

 

[Twilight Lumiair]

Mmm... I really didn't want this to turn into a debate, but I should know you guys better at this point, lol.

And anyway, contrary to what Twilight Lumiair said, Sora dual wielding does NOT contradict said lore. It was never established that a person had to have two hearts actually inside them in order to be able to dual wield Keyblades. Roxas dual wielded without Xion being inside him (she had returned to Sora at this point and was NOT inside Roxas' heart). The connection was enough to be able to wield her Keyblade in tandem with his own. Just so, Sora's connections are enough for him to be able to dual wield.

Correction: Roxas' actual Keyblades never came from Xion. It came from the fact that Ventus' heart stayed within Sora's body at the time he separated into a heartless and Nobody back in KH1. He merely "awakened" the ability (known as Synch Blade) after Xion died, and that effect carried over to Sora. This was confirmed ages ago. ↓

Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep Ultimania, p. 617
Interviewer: "Why can Roxas dual-wield?"

Tetsuya Nomura: "Sora can wield two Keyblades at once because he has Ventus' as well as his own. As Roxas is a part of Sora, he also can use two. In Days, Roxas awakened his ability to dual wield after fighting Xion. In KHII, once Sora absorbs him, he can also dual-wield."

Why is it that people don't think I know what I'm talking about here xD

If it's just about dual-wielding gameplay all they would have needed to do was making Roxas playable more. It's his specialty after all.
Giving it to Sora now as well again makes him just look more like an all-powerful plot device who gets every gimmick and ability of all the other characters.

This^

Let me Re: Mind you all that Sora arbitrarily gained shotlocks, attraction flow, and grand magic at the very beginning of this game despite "losing all of his abilities." It was already hard to swallow then, now we have to accept that he can naturally do all of that, on top of Keyblade Transformations and Duel Wielding? Despite the fact that they just gave him the Ultimate Form, now he's essentially got Final Form back on top of that because.. "connections" and all that.

It's whatever really. I don't care how you handwave it, it's not any less silly to think about.

People were complaining about the lack of dual wielding gameplay. So it's damned if they do, damned if they don't I guess.

They can do whatever they want, lol. It's their game. I merely found it amusing that they prioritized flash and spectacle over established lore again (like several other elements of KH3). It's so transparent that it's honestly not worth getting angry over.
Also, for the record, I wasn't one of those people

 

[SuperSaiyanSora]

My guess is maybe you have to have both Oathkeeper and Oblivion equipped? Or maybe because we know that keyblades can "save" their transformation if you switch to another mid-combat then maybe what you are supposed to do is transform one, then swap to the other before the bar runs out and once you transform the second one it sends you into this alternate form instead and uses both keyblades' form changes?

That's the only thing I can think of that makes sense.

Actually, this would be a really cool idea. I like yours more LOL. The option to use either or would still be cool BUT this method would make more sense, seeing as how it'd be both.

 

[Violet Pluto]

I guess the staff either decided that the "Skill" Synch Blade would stay even after Ventus left their Hearts, (unless Sora's heart is still connected to Ventus despite his seeming okayness) or it is a just for fun thing. I mean potentially he could have picked up a second Keyblade and turned it into another one, because as I understand the Synch Blade thing is a summon thing, that he could call forth an extra Keyblade out of nothingness, but there doesn't seem to be a rule stating that you can't use another Keyblade you picked up in the wild as Sora showed with the Master's Keyblade before (though he had to give that back to Aqua.)

 

[Twilight Lumiair]

I mean potentially he could have picked up a second Keyblade and turned it into another one, because as I understand the Synch Blade thing is a summon thing, that he could call forth an extra Keyblade out of nothingness, but there doesn't seem to be a rule stating that you can't use another Keyblade you picked up in the wild as Sora showed with the Master's Keyblade before (though he had to give that back to Aqua.)

Deja Vu.

Long story short, it's never explicitly stated, but always been implied that Keyblade Weilders can store two Keyblades what's essentially their "pocket dimension", but that doesn't mean they wield both at the same time. During Aqua's final fight against Terranort, for example, she has both Mater's Defender, as well as her own Keyblade. But she never summons them both at once.

Another example would be Mickey, who had both Kingdom Key D and Starseeker after KH1 (regularly switching between them), but is never shown summoning the two at once.

In KH3, once Sora picks up the Master's Defender, he only ever used it when his own Keyblade is dismissed. We actually see him have to dismiss his Keyblade before summoning it right here:

So the idea is that Keyblade Weilders can hold two Keyblades in their "hammer space", but they require two hearts to summon both at once. Even more evidence here:

I myself drew the cover art. The fact that she has two Keyblade means she must have two hearts oh no the character limit -Nomura

*Edited for Grammatical Errors*

 

[drew0512]

Mmm... I really didn't want this to turn into a debate, but I should know you guys better at this point, lol.


Correction: Roxas' actual Keyblades never came from Xion. It came from the fact that Ventus' heart stayed within Sora's body at the time he separated into a heartless and Nobody back in KH1. He merely "awakened" the ability (known as Synch Blade) after Xion died, and that effect carried over to Sora. This was confirmed ages ago. ↓


Why is it that people don't think I know what I'm talking about here xD


This^

Let me Re: Mind you all that Sora arbitrarily gained shotlocks, attraction flow, and grand magic at the very beginning of this game despite "losing all of his abilities." It was already hard to swallow then, now we have to accept that he can naturally do all of that, on top of Keyblade Transformations and Duel Wielding? Despite the fact that they just gave him the Ultimate Form, now he's essentially got Final Form back on top of that because.. "connections" and all that.

It's whatever really. I don't care how you handwave it, it's not any less silly to think about.


They can do whatever they want, lol. It's their game. I merely found it amusing that they prioritized flash and spectacle over established lore again (like several other elements of KH3). It's so transparent that it's honestly not worth getting angry over.
Also, for the record, I wasn't one of those people

Not only your comment personally comes off as unnecessarily hostile but you are also expressing an opinion/complaint while explicitly stating that you don't care about what other people say.
It's pretty superficial and you are also judging something adamantly, despite not knowing how it will work yet. It just seems complaining for the sake for it.

 

[Seighart]

I was out of the loop for a while and found out about the requirements for Oblivion a week ago while I was away from home. Now scrambling to finish a new game + on Critical mode in time for this update.

Where is this source for this requirement?