• Hello everybody! We have tons of new awards for the new year that can be requested through our Awards System thanks to Antifa Lockhart! Some are limited-time awards so go claim them before they are gone forever...

    CLICK HERE FOR AWARDS

News ► Drop Gauge Increased in DDDHD and 0.2 Objectives Translated!



REGISTER TO REMOVE ADS
Status
Not open for further replies.

OathkeeperRoxas XIII

Silver Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2009
Messages
4,659
Age
32
Location
Destiny Islands
Website
www.fanfiction.net
I think the Drop mechanic was introduced so it would allow equal pacing between the two characters as opposed to BBS's three characters. It isn't particularly bad if you use Drop-Me-Nots or if you drop and then drop back.

Yeah but people seem to be doing stuff and forgetting the game mechanic

Blame yourself for not preparing, not the Game. I didn't and never drop during bosses. How anyone did is bizarre
 

DarkosOverlord

Bronze Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2016
Messages
2,808
Awards
4
Age
29
Location
Rome, Italy
Ok, I promised not to come back here, but... really...

"Why fixing these unsafe stairs to get to the mountain, I can climb them just fine. Blame yourselves for not having my same climbing abilities or even being potentially handicapped people, not the mountain for having ill-developed stairs that only damage some climbers and aren't beneficial in any physical way."
 

OathkeeperRoxas XIII

Silver Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2009
Messages
4,659
Age
32
Location
Destiny Islands
Website
www.fanfiction.net
Ok, I promised not to come back here, but... really...

"Why fixing these unsafe stairs to get to the mountain, I can climb them just fine. Blame yourselves for not having my same climbing abilities or even being potentially handicapped people, not the mountain for having ill-developed stairs that only damage some climbers and aren't beneficial in any physical way."

Please don't twist what I said to think that way. I never had a problem with the gauge, and people should know it's not frozen during battles but still find ways to drop in battles. That's their fault.
 

VoidGear.

red gay
Joined
Jun 6, 2015
Messages
5,594
Awards
57
Age
29
Location
Germany
There's a heavy difference between something "damaged" and a game-mechanic that is in no way unfair or impossible to deal with.
Aren't the Drop-me-nots buyable, even?? Like, there are a million ways not to drop during battle, including drop-me-nots or using the multiplier while switching characters, force-dropping etc.
It's a completely different thing. :(
 

DarkosOverlord

Bronze Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2016
Messages
2,808
Awards
4
Age
29
Location
Rome, Italy
There's a heavy difference between something "damaged" and a game-mechanic that is in no way unfair or impossible to deal with.

First of all, it is unfair. Not being terribly unfair doesn't mean not unfair at all.
Second... is there?
I didn't bring the stairs for their value of being damaged, but for being damaging, just like a gameplay mechanic.
Both have a problem, which all people have to work through and some do it effortlessly.
Both could be without said problem or being entirely replaced/erased.
I don't really see how they're completely different.

That one athletic guy who run 10 laps every morning didn't see the need for cars to exist, but others did. Were they at fault?

Again, I'm hearing always the same things: "I haven't found that a problem, I personally like it, I can use items..."
Which doesn't mean you can't feel this way or you're wrong in something, but none of this addresses all those other folks who, without being wrong themselves or at fault of anything, think such an arbitrary limit damaged their own experience.

Those claims exists and since the Drop doesn't really do anything that REQUIRES it to be there, I think they can be seen as legit.
All I'm seeing is people handling it and people who can't.
And the latters' existence, least someone proves me wrong, automatically make this an unfair mechanic. Not in a demeaning way, in the literal sense of "not fair for everyone".

And of course, I'm against unfair elements in a game especially if avoidable.
 

Muke

whatever
Joined
Nov 30, 2014
Messages
6,113
Awards
39
Location
Vienna
Your comparisons don't make sense and tbh it is kind of funny how triggered you are by the Drop mechanic.

And honestly I don't see how it is "damaging" at all - you are overreacting imo but whatever
 

VoidGear.

red gay
Joined
Jun 6, 2015
Messages
5,594
Awards
57
Age
29
Location
Germany
I'm sorry, I didn't know that a gameplay mechanic that asks you to think your way through instead of doing nothing can be considered "unfair". Like, isn't anything luck-based "unfair" then, too? Damn it took me like 100 tries to get all the special portals in 3D, is that unfair or does it just take effort and time?

Honestly I want to see someone unable to deal with the drop gauge play through 358/2 days cause that'd be diddlying hilarious. 3D was such a joke in comparison to that.

People want their games challenging yet super-easy, I don't understand it. Maybe the genre just isn't for them, then.
 

Lonbilly

Captain Marvel is a lesbian send tweet
Joined
Apr 22, 2007
Messages
6,655
Awards
6
Age
29
First of all, it is unfair. Not being terribly unfair doesn't mean not unfair at all.

I've seen a few fair arguments regarding the Drop Gauge, but this definition isn't really one of them. You could use this against ANYTHING in a video game. Time limit in Majora's Mask? Unfair. Time limit in Lightning Returns? Unfair. A controllable mechanic in a video game meant to challenge players to either think or face the consequences of just going "oh, fuck it"? Unfair.

Drop Gauge is controllable and while I understand some may not see it as necessary or even as a fantastic gameplay mechanic (it isn't, but it's far from just average), if you actually manage yourself and your playtime properly you can literally make it to where you only drop when you are manually required to drop.

It's like trying to complain about, for example, Aqua's Fire Roll of Death not having as many invincibility frames as her normal roll despite the fact that the tradeoff allows you to harm enemies as you flee. Or that FFVII is unfair because it's Active Time Battle instead of being a wait system like in FFX.

Again, a lot of good arguments have been made about the Drop Gauge being meh in the past, but calling it unfair when it's an actual controllable mechanic is like calling EVERY controllable mechanic unfair.
 

DarkosOverlord

Bronze Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2016
Messages
2,808
Awards
4
Age
29
Location
Rome, Italy
Your comparisons don't make sense and tbh it is kind of funny how triggered you are by the Drop mechanic.

And honestly I don't see how it is "damaging" at all - you are overreacting imo but whatever

You people have a literal obsession with triggering, lol.
"You're triggered about this, you're angry about that..." Isn't it possible that I just fight my own ideas without yielding AND without losing my head over it?
Am I the only one who argues about videogames while remaining calm or what?
Sad is the man (or woman) who gets angry about games not being as they wish or at people not thinking like they do.

Anyway, I've explained why for me this can damage the experience. Yet to be contradicted on that one.
Saying it doesn't for you it's... true, and correct, I would assume, but again doesn't really negate my own point.

I'm sorry, I didn't know that a gameplay mechanic that asks you to think your way through instead of doing nothing can be considered "unfair". Like, isn't anything luck-based "unfair" then, too? Damn it took me like 100 tries to get all the special portals in 3D, is that unfair or does it just take effort and time?

Thinking? I'm the one who's sorry, I was under the impression you guys said, multiple times, that the Drop Gauge is not a big deal because you can pop an item. What... thinking do you do for that?

And yes, the portals were also unfair, more specifically the part where already completed portals appeared before uncompleted ones, forcing you to (surprise!) drop to no end. I hope they've changed that, btw.
I'd say it was only time-consuming and unfair rather than challenging anything but your patience, but I did say people have different gaming skills.

Honestly I want to see someone unable to deal with the drop gauge play through 358/2 days cause that'd be diddlying hilarious. 3D was such a joke in comparison to that.

Ah, the good old "This thing is bad, so the other must be good."
Right, they can't be both their own degree of bad.

People want their games challenging yet super-easy, I don't understand it. Maybe the genre just isn't for them, then.

Nice try in switching this to a difficulty discussion, but it was never about that. It was about fairness.
You guys said and I agree that Drop Gauge didn't really test anything and isn't difficult (more like it has nothing to do with DDD's difficulty), it just damages the experience for someone, without any relation to difficulty.

I've seen a few fair arguments regarding the Drop Gauge, but this definition isn't really one of them. You could use this against ANYTHING in a video game. Time limit in Majora's Mask? Unfair. Time limit in Lightning Returns? Unfair. A controllable mechanic in a video game meant to challenge players to either think or face the consequences of just going "oh, diddly it"? Unfair.

Drop Gauge is controllable and while I understand some may not see it as necessary or even as a fantastic gameplay mechanic (it isn't, but it's far from just average), if you actually manage yourself and your playtime properly you can literally make it to where you only drop when you are manually required to drop.

It's like trying to complain about, for example, Aqua's Fire Roll of Death not having as many invincibility frames as her normal roll despite the fact that the tradeoff allows you to harm enemies as you flee. Or that FFVII is unfair because it's Active Time Battle instead of being a wait system like in FFX.

Again, a lot of good arguments have been made about the Drop Gauge being meh in the past, but calling it unfair when it's an actual controllable mechanic is like calling EVERY controllable mechanic unfair.

You used one keyword here: tradeoff.
What is the tradeoff, here? What good does having this limitation brings?
Drives had time limit, but they gave you other powers, for instance.

Obviously I'm not using this against everything: you named two games that were built around the concept of time limit.
Now, now, I don't wanna start an argument about the relevance of drops in DDD's story, I actually am pro-drop system, I am against how it was made: arbitrary, unnecessary limit that doesn't compensate for its presence.
 
Last edited:

Muke

whatever
Joined
Nov 30, 2014
Messages
6,113
Awards
39
Location
Vienna
I still don't see how the Drop mechanic is unfair in your opinion but whatever this discussion obviously isn't going anywhere, so let's agree to disagree.
 

DarkosOverlord

Bronze Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2016
Messages
2,808
Awards
4
Age
29
Location
Rome, Italy
I still don't see how the Drop mechanic is unfair in your opinion but whatever this discussion obviously isn't going anywhere, so let's agree to disagree.

Fair enough.
*thinks about making a "drop the subject" pun but realizes it's not the time*

I'll apologize on one thing: I did say this was case closed to me, and yet here I am. I was kind of immature in this regard.
 

VoidGear.

red gay
Joined
Jun 6, 2015
Messages
5,594
Awards
57
Age
29
Location
Germany
I've seen a few fair arguments regarding the Drop Gauge, but this definition isn't really one of them. You could use this against ANYTHING in a video game. Time limit in Majora's Mask? Unfair. Time limit in Lightning Returns? Unfair. A controllable mechanic in a video game meant to challenge players to either think or face the consequences of just going "oh, diddly it"? Unfair.

Drop Gauge is controllable and while I understand some may not see it as necessary or even as a fantastic gameplay mechanic (it isn't, but it's far from just average), if you actually manage yourself and your playtime properly you can literally make it to where you only drop when you are manually required to drop.

It's like trying to complain about, for example, Aqua's Fire Roll of Death not having as many invincibility frames as her normal roll despite the fact that the tradeoff allows you to harm enemies as you flee. Or that FFVII is unfair because it's Active Time Battle instead of being a wait system like in FFX.

Again, a lot of good arguments have been made about the Drop Gauge being meh in the past, but calling it unfair when it's an actual controllable mechanic is like calling EVERY controllable mechanic unfair.

Thanks. Couldn't have summarized it any better.

Sad is the man (or woman) who gets angry about games not being as they wish or at people not thinking like they do.

So basically the people getting furious about the drop gauge?

Thinking? I'm the one who's sorry, I was under the impression you guys said, multiple times, that the Drop Gauge is not a big deal because you can pop an item. What... thinking do you do for that?

You think "I better just force a drop before doing that boss fight. I'll have plenty of time to do the fight when re-dropping, then" or maybe "oh, I should equip drop-me-nots when the gauge lowers in case I encounter a boss and don't want to drop during the fight." It's simple shit, but apparently it's completely game-breaking to some folks?

And yes, the portals were also unfair, more specifically the part where already completed portals appeared before uncompleted ones, forcing you to (surprise!) drop to no end. I hope they've changed that, btw.
I'd say it was only time-consuming and unfair rather than challenging anything but your patience, but I did say people have different gaming skills.

Lol, okay, so it's really like stated above. Everything where you have to act strategic or change your technique or can't do something on the first try because it's luck-based is unfair to you. I'm not sure if you're serious or if this is just language barrier and you mean a slightly different word.

Ah, the good old "This thing is bad, so the other must be good."
Right, they can't be both their own degree of bad.

It's not about good or bad.
It's about not being able to pop an item when a gauge runs low and then trying to beat the ruler of the skies. Just sounds hella funny to me in comparison.

Nice try in switching this to a difficulty discussion, but it was never about that. It was about fairness.
You guys said and I agree that Drop Gauge didn't really test anything and isn't difficult (more like it has nothing to do with DDD's difficulty), it just damages the experience for someone, without any relation to difficulty.

Yeah okay, having to use up one of eight item slots for an item that completely destroys this whole "problem" with the gauge is super unfair and completely destroys the experience, I really don't get it. Like, I understand a lot of problems people have with the games, but the drop-gauge...really, just nah.
 

Elysium

Be Wiser Than the Serpent
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
3,772
Awards
37
Well, a lot of people here seem to have a problem understanding anything they don't agree with. I personally learned to live with the Drop Gauge, but I think it's fine if DarkosOverlord didn't enjoy it/found it to be annoying or a dumb mechanic.
 

VoidGear.

red gay
Joined
Jun 6, 2015
Messages
5,594
Awards
57
Age
29
Location
Germany
There's still a difference between "unfair" and "dumb/annoying".
I never said I don't understand why it's considered dumb or unnecessary, but how it could be unfair is beyond me, yes. And that's obviously only the case because I don't agree!1! (^:
 

Launchpad

i remember the OLD khinsider
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
4,048
Awards
21
Age
27
Location
xigbar's apartment
The mechanic never gave me any difficulty in completing any objectives, but it certainly impeded my enjoyment of the game to a certain extent; I just don't like the feeling of being on a time limit. Luckily, there was a nifty trick during the end-game to play as one at a time with no time limit. There should be a no-drop option on NG+.
 

TheKeybasHKey

New member
Joined
Mar 22, 2016
Messages
240
Awards
1
Age
27
Location
Mexico
I didren´t have issues with the Drop Gauge in the game. But i had to everything the gauge was low i had to add Drop-Me-Not and then continue but i had to do it a lot of the time, but it didren´t annoy me, yes the Drop Gauge is an annoying mecanic of the game, just giving my two cents.
 

Sephiroth0812

Guardian of Light
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
10,531
Awards
37
Location
Germany
Impatience.

There are masses of gamers out there that favor heavily streamlined gameplay and shun any kind of RPG element involving preparation or using lateral thinking to come up with a strategy.

I'm rather surprised myself, the drop gauge and card system are incredibly tame compared to the stuff you find in classic RPGs.

Is it really just that?
People nowadays are too lazy to immerse themselves in things and obstacles they are given and think about how to work with/around them?
Because that's literally the very first thing I do with every game I start to play regardless of genre.

Are they too lazy to keep several things at once in mind and think ahead more than two steps?

Which and how many mechanics are in this particular game? Which of them have the potential to be frustating and how can you minimize this frust?
Those are just two simple questions one has to ask oneself and then look into them.

There's a heavy difference between something "damaged" and a game-mechanic that is in no way unfair or impossible to deal with.
Aren't the Drop-me-nots buyable, even?? Like, there are a million ways not to drop during battle, including drop-me-nots or using the multiplier while switching characters, force-dropping etc.
It's a completely different thing. :(

Correct, being "annoyed" with a mechanic doesn't automatically make it "unfair", "damaged" or warrants it being removed altogether.
 

The_Echo

Anti-SENA Operative
Joined
Mar 16, 2013
Messages
1,841
Awards
12
Ok, I promised not to come back here, but... really...

"Why fixing these unsafe stairs to get to the mountain, I can climb them just fine. Blame yourselves for not having my same climbing abilities or even being potentially handicapped people, not the mountain for having ill-developed stairs that only damage some climbers and aren't beneficial in any physical way."
What...

What?

I don't
What? This is the most ludicrous analogy I have ever seen. Ever​.

Let me try this on your position:
"I can't get through this door. No, turning the handle shouldn't have to happen, in fact the door shouldn't even be there at all! This door in no way benefits my progress into the next room!"
 

DarkosOverlord

Bronze Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2016
Messages
2,808
Awards
4
Age
29
Location
Rome, Italy
What...

What?

I don't
What? This is the most ludicrous analogy I have ever seen. Ever​.

Let me try this on your position:
"I can't get through this door. No, turning the handle shouldn't have to happen, in fact the door shouldn't even be there at all! This door in no way benefits my progress into the next room!"

Well, I am being called in, it's only fair.

"I can't get through this door."

- Mh, I get the feeling you're talking about a perfectly safe door with no flaws. Too bad, I made sure to point out the stairs were damaged, resulting in a not proper functioning.
Your analogy is already failing.

"No, turning the handle shouldn't have to happen"

- Interesting... turning the handle is a one-man job. You're taking this action to a single man vs the object, while the main issue of my analogy was relating to multiple people.

"in fact the door shouldn't even be there at all!"

- You're using the verb "removing", while I used "fixing". Two completely unrelated actions that devolve in completely unrelated scenarios.

"This door in no way benefits my progress into the next room!"


- Doors have many more uses. They keep a local warm, preventing air currents; they help keeping privacy; They block weather conditions and possibly wildlife or strangers to come in.
What do stairs do... oh yeah, they get you to an place on a different height. You can do more with stairs, as you can with doors, but that's outside their original purpose and it doesn't concern us.
Using a door as an obstacle while ignoring its other purposes it's kind of near-sighted.

There. Your comparison is flawed in at least four parts and uses elements and scenarios not depicted by my original one, therefore not valid objections.
Completely misses my main point about equity for multiple people while focusing on a single entity and his interesting vision of doors as just an obstacle.
Funny, but hardly relevant. Well, not reallly funny... ludicrous, I'd say.

I might've been an ass, but I do major in linguistics and it kinda bothers me when things get this decontestualized.
 

Muke

whatever
Joined
Nov 30, 2014
Messages
6,113
Awards
39
Location
Vienna
I think he was trying to imitate you. Whatever, we should drop this theme because it just gets more ridiculous as we go with every post
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top