Dream Drop Distance's Dream Eaters - An Editorial

[loke13]

I like the Dream Eaters just the way they are leave the "scary" character designs for the Heartless and Nobodies.

 

[TheKHPlayer]

I like the Dream Eaters just the way they are leave the "scary" character designs for the Heartless and Nobodies.

That's what the Nightmares are...

 

[Raz]

The Dream Eaters look like Lisa Frank drawings. That one wolf-guy that Riku was fighting in Traverse Town was kind of intimidating, though. I wasn't impressed with the Unversed (their story or their design), so hopefully they don't drop the ball with these guys.

 

[Taochan]

How is it sexist that women like cute stuff? I didn't say all of them, but a lot of them. Women of my age like cute stuff two, I only know a handful of people who are not like that. Hopefully you did not misunderstand me. Btw: I didn't notice their eyes, but what you say is true I guess. But their eyes are just a small part of their body. The heartless and the nobodies were designed to reflect their personalities with their whole body.

Just to assume that the Dream Eaters are "cute" to appeal to the female fanbase is just... ugh.

People's faces are what give away their emotions, so it is entirely appropriate that the Unversed's eyes are what show the different emotions they represent.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

The Dream Eaters look like Lisa Frank drawings. That one wolf-guy that Riku was fighting in Traverse Town was kind of intimidating, though. I wasn't impressed with the Unversed (their story or their design), so hopefully they don't drop the ball with these guys.

eeeeeeh idk.

You can change their colors so it isn't that bad.

 

[Raz]

eeeeeeh idk.

You can change their colors so it isn't that bad.

You could have picked the teddy bear or the cat to use as an example.
Not the scariest fish thing in the world omg. D:

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

You could have picked the teddy bear or the cat to use as an example.
Not the scariest fish thing in the world omg. D:

Yeah...the fish is really scary D: The Panda from Hell wouldn't have driven the point home, though. *doesn't really like fish*

 

[Sign]

I see the Panda from Hell in my nightmares ;A;
No seriously. It creeps me out.

Wonder Nyan is cute though. I will name mine George and I shall play with it and love it forevermore <3

 

[Chaser]

I'm glad some of you are "frightened" by the Dream Eaters. I remember people were worried they'd be too fruity cutey.

The torpedo fish, Gorilla and Gargoyal are my bad ones. They're seriously freaky.

Edit: I was watching this:
[video=youtube;3Lj5GJ_BdM0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Lj5GJ_BdM0[/video]

and what is that Dream Eater that EATS YOU!!!!???

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

Dream Eaters can be serious nightmare fuel if done right. Think of the Panda from Hell hugging you, then it sinks it's claws into your back! Or Wan-tan crushes you after transforming big! Or Thorn Lion impaling you with its thorny tail.

Dream Eaters ain't your sister's Lisa Frank drawings! ;A;

 

[mooglekupor]

People's faces are what give away their emotions, so it is entirely appropriate that the Unversed's eyes are what show the different emotions they represent.

True but their whole existence didn't represent their personalities. Besides when you're killing hundreds of unversed I doubt you have time to look into their big red eyes and be amazed by how well it reflects their mental attributes.
In KHI we saw the heartless destroy worlds and reduce them to black holes(End of the World), and we saw in Traverse Town(near the beginning of the game) how they steal one's heart, and make the body of the hearts owner disappear. These things showed that the weakest heartless were a HUGE threat to not just Sora but the whole universe.
In KHII we saw Roxas getting chased endlessly by the freakish Nobodies, Sora and co.(also Riku) having serious problems defeating them even though they saved the world a year ago and we saw the Org. XIII surrounded by misteries. At that time they were WAYYYY stronger than Sora, and several cutscenes proved this(e.g. the raid of Hollow Bastion).
So how did we know that the unversed were a true threat? Because one old dude who is a FORMER kblade master and probably spends most of his days sitting on his chair told TAV? The only time we've seen them do something evil was when they TRIED to attack Kairi. Yeah attacking a child is totally villanious. Also as Vanitas stated, their objective was to be slain by Ventus os that he becomes strong, fights Vanitas and forms the X-blade, and that's all. In short: Yen Sid acted like a wise dude when he knew nothing , and TAV fell right into Xehanort's trap.

 

[Taochan]

True but their whole existence didn't represent their personalities. Besides when you're killing hundreds of unversed I doubt you have time to look into their big red eyes and be amazed by how well it reflects their mental attributes.

I thought it did, some of them seemed to run around with joy while others trashed around. They all moved in a unique way.

Possibly not all of the time, but surely at some point in the game you must have noticed their eyes. I know I sure did.

In KHI we saw the heartless destroy worlds and reduce them to black holes(End of the World), and we saw in Traverse Town(near the beginning of the game) how they steal one's heart, and make the body of the hearts owner disappear. These things showed that the weakest heartless were a HUGE threat to not just Sora but the whole universe
In KHII we saw Roxas getting chased endlessly by the freakish Nobodies, Sora and co.(also Riku) having serious problems defeating them even though they saved the world a year ago and we saw the Org. XIII surrounded by misteries. At that time they were WAYYYY stronger than Sora, and several cutscenes proved this(e.g. the raid of Hollow Bastion).

I definitely agree on the creepiness of the Nobodies; how the Dusks move will never cease to creep me out. But the enemies aren't always meant to be creepy, or else we wouldn't have the Heartless Shadow's or Nocturne's which aren’t intimidating in the slightest.

One, Sora was asleep for an entire year… obviously he’s going to be weak. Especially since this is an enemy he has never faced in the first place.

Two, I don’t see your point with Organization 13. Ansem Seeker of Darkness was surrounded by mysteries, as was Vanitas. And you know what Ansem was? An extremely powerful Heartless. Vanitas? The creator of the Unversed. They were equally as mysteriouss as a group of powerful Nobodies.

Three, do you not recall the cutscene in Birth by Sleep where Ventus was being held down by a couple of damn Flood? Flood are the weakest of the Unversed and a handful of them were able to keep him from even moving. That’s fairly impressive.

I’m not saying they were the ‘crème of the crop’ of enemies, but they still were formidable. The thing with them is that they came from a single entity and couldn’t be made on their own. That separates them from every other enemy thus far.

So how did we know that the unversed were a true threat? Because one old dude who is a FORMER kblade master and probably spends most of his days sitting on his chair told TAV? The only time we've seen them do something evil was when they TRIED to attack Kairi. Yeah attacking a child is totally villanious. Also as Vanitas stated, their objective was to be slain by Ventus os that he becomes strong, fights Vanitas and forms the X-blade, and that's all. In short: Yen Sid acted like a wise dude when he knew nothing , and TAV fell right into Xehanort's trap.

How is 11 years or Heartless tormenting Worlds without Keyblade wielders even comparable to the time the Unversed were unleashed on the world with Keyblade Wielders? It’s not. You can’t say that the Unversed wouldn’t have caused a massive amount of damage because the time period they existed for was so drastically different than the Heartless.

That sentence is fairly fragmented and I don’t see your point. The Unversed were a negative side effect of cutting Vanitas from Ventus; Vanitas used them to lure Ventus to himself so they could unite.

You pulled that Yen Sid thing out of bonking nowhere man, how is that relevant to the point you’re trying to make? Yen Sid isn’t god; he can’t see everything or know everything. Yen Sid was the first to know of the Unversed threat, so he warned the only other Keyblade wielders he knew. How was he possibly supposed to know that Xehanort was behind it all? Simple answer is that he wasn’t. You can’t blame Yen Sid for anything that happened.

 

[mooglekupor]

Two, I don’t see your point with Organization 13. Ansem Seeker of Darkness was surrounded by mysteries, as was Vanitas. And you know what Ansem was? An extremely powerful Heartless. Vanitas? The creator of the Unversed. They were equally as mysteriouss as a group of powerful Nobodies..

IMHO Vanitas wasn't misterious that much. If you played BBS in the 'right' order , starting with Terra, you knew almost everything about Vanitas before TAV reunited in Radiant Garden. The situation with Org. 13 was that you didn't know NONE of their objective until the half of the game, and by then you only knew ONE OBJECTIVE ONLY: create Kingdom Hearts to get their own hearts. You still didn't know the real goal of Xemnas, not to mention the plans of all the other Org.members. Also, Org. 13 was manipulative as hell(especially Saix). They were not far away from achieving complete control over Sora because of this.

Three, do you not recall the cutscene in Birth by Sleep where Ventus was being held down by a couple of damn Flood? Flood are the weakest of the Unversed and a handful of them were able to keep him from even moving. That’s fairly impressive..

I do but I kinda fel dé ja vu when seeing it. It reminded me of Roxas getting grabbed by the Nobodies often, and Sora and Maleficent getting held down by the Heartless. Both of these happened in KH2.

I’m not saying they were the ‘crème of the crop’ of enemies, but they still were formidable. The thing with them is that they came from a single entity and couldn’t be made on their own. That separates them from every other enemy thus far..

You just proved my point. I didn't say they weren't formidable enemies-because they were- I said that they weren't a threat to the world like the other two type of enemies were.

How is 11 years or Heartless tormenting Worlds without Keyblade wielders even comparable to the time the Unversed were unleashed on the world with Keyblade Wielders? It’s not. You can’t say that the Unversed wouldn’t have caused a massive amount of damage because the time period they existed for was so drastically different than the Heartless.

That sentence is fairly fragmented and I don’t see your point. The Unversed were a negative side effect of cutting Vanitas from Ventus; Vanitas used them to lure Ventus to himself so they could unite. .

It's true that during BBS there were more kblade wielders who went and dealt with the Unversed-including a master- but none of them were stronger than Sora or Riku right after they awakened their ability to fight with a kblade. Proof: All of them(well I don't know about Riku since he wasn't playable at first) had one or two abilities and the basic 3 hit combo. Although I'm kinda getting really reeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaally annoyed by the fact that I have to start every damn KH game with the 3 hit combo, in BBS it was necessary: it showed how piss weak was TAV, and the only way to get powerful is to gain experience , visit several worlds and fight real enemies.

But hey, let's assume for a moment that you cannot compare the Unversed with the Heartless. That brings a question: How did they know that the Unversed were dangerous? If they didn't hurt anybody, didn't cause mayhem or even a little destruction, and 3 weak kblade wielders dealt with them completely, can you really call them a 'threat'? I don't think so.

You pulled that Yen Sid thing out of bonking nowhere man, how is that relevant to the point you’re trying to make? Yen Sid isn’t god; he can’t see everything or know everything. Yen Sid was the first to know of the Unversed threat, so he warned the only other Keyblade wielders he knew. How was he possibly supposed to know that Xehanort was behind it all? Simple answer is that he wasn’t. You can’t blame Yen Sid for anything that happened.

Yen Sid was the person who knew the most(if not everything) about recent and past events and people. And yes, HE KNEW THAT XEHANORT WAS BEHIND THE UNVERSED(the cutscene where Terra meets him for the first time proves this) but he didn't do a damn thing about it. Three people are responsible for making things go from bad to worse(not counting Xehanort). One of them is Yen Sid(the other is Riku and Aqua but let's not get into it). He didn't tell Terra the truth about Xehanort, he didn't offer a comatose Ventus a perfect sanctuary and he didn't tell nobody about the return of Xehanort in time(by in time I mean right during the events of KH2. Yes he even knew that, it is stated in a Nomura interview). His character is so irritating I just wanna kick him in the bawlz.

 

[Chaser]

IMHO Vanitas wasn't misterious that much. If you played BBS in the 'right' order , starting with Terra, you knew almost everything about Vanitas before TAV reunited in Radiant Garden.

You do about Vanitas' backstory from the novel right?

DARK MEMORY – The Truth of Vanitas Behind the Game

Okay, let me start with a bit more explanation on Ventus' personality first, because it'll be essential to understand Vanitas' personality. At first my friend thought Ven was too much like Sora in terms of their personality, however I don't think Ven is all like Sora even in the game, he seems to be weaker, mentally, than Sora even in the game. And after reading the novel, it confirms my previous thoughts that the reason why he acts much like Sora in the game is because Sora shared his heart with him and that's totally because of Sora's influence (and later there's also Aqua, Terra and Master Eraques' influence to him).

Let's see, before Master Xehanort (MX for short) extracted Vanitas from him, Ventus' original personality was very gentle, weak and lack of self-confidence. he didn't fight back when MX summoned the Neo-shadow Heartless to surround him, it was not because he didn't want to use the power of darkness inside him, it was because he was too scared and thought very pessimistically that there was no way he could fight those monsters, so he just gave up there. Well, the kid was only 11 or 12 back then if you assume he was like 15 or 16 in the BbS game. The whole 'extraction' event happened 4 years earlier than BbS game, it was also when Sora was just born. Ventus was actually an orphan who had never seen his parents.

In general, Ven was a very timid, diffidence, weak boy. I seriously wonder how such a weak kid like him could wield a keyblade after all, since it requires a strong heart to wield a keyblade according to the original game setting. Well, maybe it's because MX raised him and passed the keyblade to him. Anyway, you all know from the game that after the Heartless attack, he fell unconscious and then MX extracted Vanitas from him. The chapter that describes this event and what happened after Vanitas' birth is called Dark Memory.

The newborn Vanitas, I'd say, is very much Ventus himself. I don't know how to put in words precisely, it's just like, y'know, when you see someone flip between their personas, you still kinda know they are the same person, that kind of feeling? The newborn Vanitas inherited Ven's feelings and thoughts directly, like he continued what Ventus was thinking previously but now with a much darker attitude and way of thinking. He still "remembered" the fear Ventus was feeling when attacked by countless Heartless. But he successfully turned this fear into power as he was able to summon his Keyblade right after his birth. (When MX summoned all the heartless, MX told Ventus to turn fear into power to defeat them, Ventus couldn't accomplish that, but Vanitas did it successfully.)

When Vanitas first saw Ventus lying on the ground, he felt somehow sad (maybe due to the separation), but soon his feeling towards Ventus turned into contempt and hate, calling Ventus an "empty shell", like Ventus was his weakness, and he hated being so weak. Or, you can say Ventus hated himself being so weak. He wanted to be strong, and that's how Vanitas' personality came to exist. I know in the game, the two of them are so different and basically no one see Ventus and Vanitas as the same person. But in the novel, at least in the first part, you can still feel Vanitas is indeed Ventus himself. Only later, Vanitas become more and more different from his original self, a.k.a. Ventus.

Right after his birth, Vanitas was very aware of his own being, that he was the personified darkness and negativity of Ventus. But then he started to question why he was made born. Every time he "felt" a thing, an Unversed would be born from the dark aura emitted from his body. But when Vanitas first saw the little monster, he felt irritated by the fact that such monster was born from him. So he destroyed the Unversed with his keyblade without any hesitation. But the Unversed was literally like a part of his own body, his extension, so every time he destroyed an Unversed, he himself would feel strong PHYSICAL pain running through his body. (Does that make you NOT want to kill any Unversed in the game anymore? At least I can't play the game anymore after knowing that how much pain Vani would go through every time the three keyblade heroes killed an Unversed T_T)

And after the Unversed was destroyed, the pain and negative feeling that the Unversed experienced during its death would return to Vanitas' mind, which added more to the irritation Vanitas was feeling and in turn another Unversed of "irritation" would born from him. It looks like at the time Vanitas was just born, he had no self-controls on the creation of Unversed, but rather Unversed were born spontaneously every time he had a strong emotion rise. But later in the story, he somehow trained himself to freely create Unversed according his own will (sounds like something like "tame your own emotion" sorta of thing xD).

At the time Vanitas was just born, he did not have a human face. He was basically like a humanoid Heartless, with pure black skins but with red eyes instead of the yellow eyes that Heartless possess. If you have noticed from the game, all Unversed have red eyes, so he was just like an Unversed himself at the time. But then MX took the unconscious Ven to the Destiny Islands, planning to leave him there to rest in peace. And then the newborn heart of Sora's came in contact with Ven's fractured heart as you see in the game. Surprisingly, that time Sora did not only touch Ven's heart, he also directly contacted Vanitas' heart. After feeling a sharp pain in his chest, Vanitas' body fell to the ground of the wasteland near Keyblade Graveyard and almost lost his consciousness, feeling being engulfed by absolute Darkness. That was when Vanitas heard Sora's voice and then he saw Light. The Light eventually surrounded his whole body. Then he heard the voice saying "Let's open the door" (if you remember from the game, the line was voiced by both HJO and Jesse McCartney at the same time, and now you can say it could be Vanitas' voice instead of Sora's). Vanitas then opened his eyes and found out that now he had a normal boy's face. He also realized that someone, probably also a newborn heart like himself, had saved Ven's heart from completely fading away.

So after being saved by Sora, Ventus was able to walk around, but he was still unconscious, he was just mindlessly walking around, like a zombie. MX brought him back to the Keyblade Graveyard and rejoined with Vanitas. But as soon as Vanitas saw Ventus, he couldn't suppress the feeling of hatred he has towards this "empty shell". He literally kicked Ventus till the blonde fell onto the ground, groaning in pain. And looking at Ventus whimpering like that only led his hatred to grow even stronger to the point he summoned his Keyblade wanting to destroy Ventus completely, which of course was stopped by MX. MX talked about his need of Ventus for his great purpose so he would not allow Vanitas to kill the boy. Unlike Ventus, who actually respected and looked up MX as a master, Vanitas indeed disliked the geezer and had no plan of being used by him for any scheme. But he was his creator after all so he didn't defy the old man openly. But then he started wondering why he was created at first place, what's the meaning of his life, that kind of things.

Because Vanitas told MX that if MX kept both him and Ventus, he couldn't guarantee that he could keep Ventus alive, since he found it was hard to suppress his impulse to hurt Ventus (yeah, you little sadistic bastard xD). Therefore, MX had to take Ventus to the Land of Departure, asking Eraqus to take care of the boy.

But then after Ventus left, Vanitas started to miss him, he kept wondering why they got separated from each other. It made him feel so miserable and painful. At the same time, he also felt very lost and anxious about his future, without Ventus, what would become of him? What was he supposed to do? What's the meaning of his existence? Why did he feel so suffocated in his chest? The more he thought about these questions, the more anxious, irritated and lonely he felt.

Quite unfortunate for him, as I mentioned above, every time he felt an emotion, it created an Unversed. Looking at the Unversed was like looking at his own weakness that he did not want to admit, which made him feel very unhappy and wanting to kill. So Vanitas started to keep killing the Unversed with his own hands, which, as you can imagine, only brought more physical pain and emotional agony to himself as the defeated Unversed return all the pain and negativity back to him, which in turn spored more Unversed to born. Being the incarnation of "negative emotion", the more negative emotions Vanitas received and felt, the stronger he would become. And he wanted to become strong because he hated being so weak, killing the Unversed was the only way he knew at the moment to get stronger, plus killing the Unversed could bring a momentary relief even though it only felt worse after he killed them. So he never stopped the killing.

It's like a vicious cycle that Vanitas could not escape from, he wanted to be strong, he wanted to get rid of the Unversed which were the symbols of his weakness and their unpleasant existence caused him feel very unhappy. But by getting rid of them, he only felt more pain and negativity. And in turn he started to hate Ventus even more, because he envied Ventus. The reason why he envied him? While the unbearable pain was crashing him, torturing him, smothering him, Ventus did not feel anything (Ventus was still in his Zombie status). It was a contradicting feeling. Vanitas wanted to become Ventus, he wanted to become that person who could not feel a thing and who did not remember or know any bad memories that had happened/was happening to 'them'.

At the same time, MX only coldly watched Vanitas harming himself from far away. Vanitas was all by himself when going through this struggle. He desperately wanted to escape from this vicious cycle of pain and suffering. But as young as he was at that time, he simply didn't know any other ways other than killing the Unversed. Until the point the pain was too much to endure, he finally collapsed onto the ground of Keyblade Graveyard. And one thing you probably would never expect to happen, that Vanitas cried, tears running down his face silently as he lay on the ground, alone. Well, after all he was only a kid back then. While it's surprising because we almost never see Vani show any weakness (expect that one time after he was defeated by Ven in the end of the game), you couldn't say it's not reasonable for him to cry at that time. According to the novel, Vanitas is not as pure darkness as we think from the game. Nothing is 100% 'pure'. He could feel Ventus' heart, meaning he could feel good and positive things from Ventus. According to the novel, he very well understood what positive emotions like love, happiness and friendship are. That's what makes it even more tragic. Being a dark creature, he was, despite the common belief, craving for Light and salvation that could save him from this endless pain and suffering.

Then MX came to him, telling him the only way for him to achieve salvation was to become the X-blade. Becoming the X-blade was the only way for him to truly unite with Ventus again, and the X-blade would bring the salvation not only to him but also to the whole world. Of course, Vanitas didn't give a shit about the world, but he desperately wanted to free himself from this unbearable fate, thus to become the X-blade had now become his goal, his whole life purpose, and his only Light of Hope to lead him out this Darkness. Now you understand why he made 'that' expression at the end of the game when the X-blade was slipping away from his grasp, don't you?

Meanwhile Ventus at the Land of Departure was being taken very good care by Aqua, Terra and Master Eraqus. At first he was very much like a vegetable, or zombie, he didn't respond to any of the three Keyblade Wielders' questions or actions. But over time, he regained the ability to talk, to feel and to response. This chapter is called "Contrast", and this chapter literally made me cry.

The structure of this chapter is like this: first, the author describes how the four in the Land of Departure living like a loving family, how Ventus was loved by the other three caring family members. Then, the scene turned to the wasteland of Keyblade Graveyard, where Vanitas was all by himself, alone, feeling the warmth that Ventus' heart transmitted to him. Despite the momentary comforting feelings that briefly warmed up his lonely heart, his heart turned even colder once the warm feeling was gone.

Then it turned back to the Land of Departure again, telling Ventus' peaceful daily life with his 'family' and how he started to recover under Aqua and others' loving care. Then we see Vanitas again, beaten up by MX, who coldly told him that his training was not enough and he needed to get stronger. And then the old man left, leaving the badly injured boy all alone in the wasteland. At this point, Vanitas no longer cried any more as he understood too well that no one cared if he cried or not, he was all by himself. He had to get stronger, strong enough to accomplish X-blade, to reach his goal. Crying and whining wouldn't get him anywhere. He just kept practicing on fighting skills by killing the Unversed, embracing all the negativity and enduring all the pain from killing parts of himself. Even though sorrow and sadness was part of the negative emotions, but Vanitas knew these things wouldn't get him stronger, only Hatred and Loneliness was needed for his purpose of growing strong. He didn't need someone else to come to save him from this fate because there would be none, he could count on no one but himself, he was his own Saviour. Thus, he became more and more cold-hearted everyday, forgetting all the sorrow, remembering only the hatred. He now devoted himself to seeking the true power of Darkness. He no longer shed any tear, as the old tears had now already dried up.

Finally in the Land of Departure, Ventus fully recovered and became a lively boy again. Meanwhile at the wasteland of Keyblade Graveyard, as Vanitas felt how Ventus was chatting happily with his two friends, his heart was now completely filled with malicious hatred and darkness. He did not bother to figure out what it was that he hated most, maybe Ventus, maybe Ventus' friends, maybe MX who separated him from Ventus, maybe this unfair fate, or maybe he just hated this world as a whole. By the end of Chapter Contrast, this Vanitas, has become the Vanitas that we all see in the game, proud, cruel, sadistic, twisted, insane, and pure evil.

 

[mooglekupor]

Didn't find the BBS novel , only the kh and COM one and I wasn't blown away by either one. This one doesn't look too promising either but I'd like to give it a chance so if you do know where I can find it can you send me a link or something?

However, just saying that even though the novels are published by Square, it has never been mentioned if the novels are canon or not, and personally I kinda doubt that they are for two reasons: some parts of the plot contradicted what happened in the game e.g. the fate of Repliku, and some parts of the plot were too zany without any reason, or not exactly 'Disney accepted' material e.g. the gummy ship literally runs on happiness, thus Sora and co have to smile all the time, or the fact that Larxene was seen reading a book by Marquis de Sade, confirming the fact that she's a sadist.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

Didn't find the BBS novel , only the kh and COM one and I wasn't blown away by either one. This one doesn't look too promising either but I'd like to give it a chance so if you do know where I can find it can you send me a link or something?

However, just saying that even though the novels are published by Square, it has never been mentioned if the novels are canon or not, and personally I kinda doubt that they are for two reasons: some parts of the plot contradicted what happened in the game e.g. the fate of Repliku, and some parts of the plot were too zany without any reason, or not exactly 'Disney accepted' material e.g. the gummy ship literally runs on happiness, thus Sora and co have to smile all the time, or the fact that Larxene was seen reading a book by Marquis de Sade, confirming the fact that she's a sadist.

The novels are considered third-tier canon. It was in the novels where we first found out that once a Nobody and Heatless are destroyed, it is possible for the Somebody to return via a line from Namine about Axel's fate after he faded away; among other things, like Vanitas' backstory.

I'm thinking you are talking about the manga, which is not the novels at all.

 

[Chaser]

Didn't find the BBS novel ... This one doesn't look too promising either but I'd like to give it a chance so if you do know where I can find it can you send me a link or something?

You're kidding me right? I quoted the chapters which added to Vanitas' backstory.

However, just saying that even though the novels are published by Square, it has never been mentioned if the novels are canon or not

The novels become canon after the games themselves and Nomura's word... and this is the full backstory for Vanitas.

 

[mooglekupor]

The novels are considered third-tier canon.

That means that it is not as important as the game right? And if the novels are third-tier canon, what is second- tier canon?

You're kidding me right? I quoted the chapters which added to Vanitas' backstory.


The novels become canon after the games themselves and Nomura's word... and this is the full backstory for Vanitas.

Meh, its too sensational for me, trying to make Vanitas less of an antagonist by giving reasons for his behaviour. The problem with that is that its a seen-it-before technique, and the members of the Org. 13 more or less fill that role of 'we're bad guys but only because of our shitty past'. I liked it better when Vanitas was just the darkside of Ventus. Sure he felt the things Ventus did and got really pissed off at how weak he was and all that, but he was the only real evil in the series: bad without a reason. He reminded me of the Joker in the Dark Knight.

Also, both of you have yet to state how and when did Nomura or anyone from the development team announce that the novels were canon.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

Interviews are second-tier canon, where mostly everything Nomura states is true but is subject to change when it is put in the games. The novels are third-tier canon because Nomura tells the author what goes in. Why does somebody from the development team need to state outright that the novels are canon when we already know Nomura controls the info going in and out of the novels?

Why is it bothering you so much that the novels hold some validity in the canon? It's not like I'm saying the manga is canon. I'm not even saying that the novels are canon like the games. Consider it further reading for your consideration to help better understand the series and it's characters on a level that is never explore in the games.

http://forums.khinsider.com/kingdom-hearts-series/124835-kh2-novel-translations-official-thread.html

 

[mooglekupor]

Interviews are second-tier canon, where mostly everything Nomura states is true but is subject to change when it is put in the games. The novels are third-tier canon because Nomura tells the author what goes in. Why does somebody from the development team need to state outright that the novels are canon when we already know Nomura controls the info going in and out of the novels?

Why is it bothering you so much that the novels hold some validity in the canon? It's not like I'm saying the manga is canon. I'm not even saying that the novels are canon like the games. Consider it further reading for your consideration to help better understand the series and it's characters on a level that is never explore in the games.

http://forums.khinsider.com/kingdom-hearts-series/124835-kh2-novel-translations-official-thread.html

1. So they're not considered slightly above fan fiction level
2. Not really bothering me, just shared my opinion
3. Thank you... THANK YOU for the link. Gonna start reading right away