"Don't ask, Don't tell" Repeal

[Johnny Stooge]

Why are straight men, who are by all accounts the dominant population, afraid of homosexual men?

So what if a homo cops a look at my junk in the communal shower. I'd be looking at all the lovely lady bits if I showered with women.

 

[Bukkake Sensei]

"Soldiers follow fluffing orders". If a soldier is ordered to go to Afghanistan, that's his order. If a soldier has to share a bunk bed with a gay man, that's his order. Enlisted solder misgivings don't determine armed forces policy.

Absolutely. I really don't want to make harsh generalizations, but on some issues (like this one) the troops can be tremendous crybabies. If you decide to enlist in the armed services, your job is to shut up and take orders. If your CO orders you to skateboard through a minefield to deliver a pack of chewing gum to Robert Gates, you fcuking do it. It's imperative that the chain of command be respected.

Truly, it sucks that they can't be openly gay. However, the military is a damn job. It isn't a time for silly business.
When at work, sexuality should NOT be present. After work, go have sex with all the men you please.

On a personal level, I agree with this completely. I'm as straight as they come, and I've made a conscious decision to never discuss certain things while I'm in the work environment -- politics, religion, and my own sex life are the big three. It's just not professional, and it's not conducive to productivity.

On the other hand, working as a soldier is not like having any other job. A certain degree of escapism is crucial to keeping the troops sane, and boy do those guys love to talk about pussy.

I don't know. Mixed feelings.

 

[Dogenzaka]

If they're ordered to share quarters with gay men, they'll cope.

Maybe I'm just too used to meeting homophobic people who have no problem shooting a gun but would rather not be within 10 feet of a gay person.

As for your idea of separating them up, Dogen, it sounds great in theory, but the honest fact is that the US armed forces are so strained on cash that often you will see 3 or even 4 people living, permanently, in a space originally designed for two. It is too crowded already for them to devote time, effort, and the immense amount of cash it would take to get something like that accomplished.

Truly, it sucks that they can't be openly gay. However, the military is a damn job. It isn't a time for silly business.
When at work, sexuality should NOT be present. After work, go have sex with all the men you please.

Yep.

I think if we ignore the whole study that determined that combat effectiveness wouldn't suffer (Joints Chiefs of Staff and all that), Admiral Whatshisface had said something to the effect of "Soldiers follow fluffing orders". If a soldier is ordered to go to Afghanistan, that's his order. If a soldier has to share a bunk bed with a gay man, that's his order. Enlisted solder misgivings don't determine armed forces policy.

Oh okay then. And there was a study? Cool.

Totally. I've been to mixed-sex onsen, it's no big deal.

But you're in Japan.

 

[Phoenix]

Oh okay then. And there was a study? Cool.

The entire vote hinged on it. This was proposed before the study was completed (even though the vote said it would only be implemented if the study found combat effectiveness wouldn't be harmed), and it didn't pass. After the study, it's found that combat effectiveness wouldn't be harmed (as was expected), and the vote passed.

FileADT Defense Department report.pdf - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Maybe I'm just too used to meeting homophobic people who have no problem shooting a gun but would rather not be within 10 feet of a gay person.

Tough. If they don't want a court martial, they'll curtail that. Soldiers follow orders.

 

[Solar]

Why are straight men, who are by all accounts the dominant population, afraid of homosexual men?

So what if a homo cops a look at my junk in the communal shower. I'd be looking at all the lovely lady bits if I showered with women.

Probably insecurities, maybe.

On a personal level, I agree with this completely. I'm as straight as they come, and I've made a conscious decision to never discuss certain things while I'm in the work environment -- politics, religion, and my own sex life are the big three. It's just not professional, and it's not conducive to productivity.

On the other hand, working as a soldier is not like having any other job. A certain degree of escapism is crucial to keeping the troops sane, and boy do those guys love to talk about pussy.

I don't know. Mixed feelings.

This. My father has always told me that. I agree with the latter too, but let's see what happens. I really don't think much'll change

 

[krexia]

But you're in Japan.

And what exactly is your point?

 

[Square Ninja]

Maybe I'm just too used to meeting homophobic people who have no problem shooting a gun but would rather not be within 10 feet of a gay person.

Kind of like how people used to be so racist they'd refuse to serve with black people.

Deal with it.

 

[Dogenzaka]

And what exactly is your point?

Japanese culture is completely different from American culture. Americans do not go bath houses to shower in mixed sexes together. Japanese have hotels you can check-out by the hour for sex, along with room service with sex toys. Japanese can buy panties from vending machines on the streets. Japanese culture is much more sexualized than American culture ever has been. You can't just apply your standards to ours and say it will work.

Kind of like how people used to be so racist they'd refuse to serve with black people.

Deal with it.

Yeah, but you don't have to tell me to deal with it. I don't care.

 

[Home bound]

gays are too precious to be in the military. which is why republicans don't want DADT to be repealed

 

[Square Ninja]

Yeah, but you don't have to tell me to deal with it. I don't care.

the fuck you don't! you just made posts explaining how repealing dadt is not a good idea

 

[krexia]

Japanese culture is completely different from American culture.

So you admit that the squeamishness about nudity and homophobia in America is purely cultural, and that people are in principle perfectly capable of dealing with such things like mature adults?

 

[tevlen]

I don't even understand how this is still a question.

It was ruled unconstitutional.

It was repealed in congress.

The joint chiefs said that it should be repealed.

You had the agreement of the judicial, executive and legislative branches of government that this was a dangerous, unfair, unjust, unwise, and unconstitutional policy.

And yet the minority continues to whine because it doesn't agree with their religion.

 

[Alaude Drenxta]

So you admit that the squeamishness about nudity and homophobia in America is purely cultural, and that people are in principle perfectly capable of dealing with such things like mature adults?

If that were what we were debating here, then you'd be absolutely in the money. I don't think any reasonable person would deny that the "American people" as a group are quite archaic on many cultural viewpoints. Not to say other countries aren't as well. Japan, for instance, isn't exactly known for being transparent with it's people, and we can end it there.

 

[canito_q]

Kind of like how people used to be so racist they'd refuse to serve with black people.

Deal with it.

Right, cause black people wanted to bang you while being in Afghanistan

 

[Phoenix]

Right, cause black people wanted to bang you while being in Afghanistan

Theres so many things wrong with this statement, I don't even know where to start.

1. Gay people already serve. They just can't say they're gay.
2. Gay people probably don't want to bang you, anymore than I don't want to bang every single woman I meet.
3. Your prejudice isn't an excuse for discrimination.
4. When you're getting shot at, sex is probably the furthest thing on your mind.
5. Just, you're disgusting.

 

[Ulti]

Right, cause black people wanted to bang you while being in Afghanistan

You have some complex if you think gays have no taste for their choice of sex. Just because gays like men doesn't mean they find you at all attractive.

 

[Thor.]

My only thought on this is that there is a danger of discrimination with people now openly gay in the military. Before gay people were still allowed to serve but they couldn't mention their preference. Now, judging solely by the people I know who have been in or planned to join the military, I would say that there could be some problems.

 

[Alaude Drenxta]

Right, cause black people wanted to bang you while being in Afghanistan

I think I love you .

 

[Square Ninja]

Right, cause black people wanted to bang you while being in Afghanistan

you seem to be really pre-occupied with gay men having sex is there something you're trying to tell us?

 

[tevlen]

My only thought on this is that there is a danger of discrimination with people now openly gay in the military. Before gay people were still allowed to serve but they couldn't mention their preference. Now, judging solely by the people I know who have been in or planned to join the military, I would say that there could be some problems.

This is the same kind of thinking that puts the blame for rape on the victim. If you are a bigot, thats your problem, and you should be the one to be penalized and have to shut up about it, not the person doing nothing wrong.