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Does Vanitas have a heart ?



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fmimac

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Sorry if this has been discussed before. I know it may sound silly, but does Vanitas have a heart ? Can he develop one ? I saw someone say he had a heart of pure darkness but... he has half of Ventus' heart, if I'm not wrong. That person said that if Ventus would be "revived" then so would Vanitas. The future games hint at his return, while a lot of people say it's impossible since he was destroyed. What do you guys think ?
 

Antifa Lockhart

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Sorry if this has been discussed before. I know it may sound silly, but does Vanitas have a heart ? Can he develop one ? I saw someone say he had a heart of pure darkness but... he has half of Ventus' heart, if I'm not wrong.

Yes. Both of those are true. Vanitas' heart IS the dark half of Ventus's heart.
 

Chuman

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yes vanitas has a heart. ventus' heart was split in two halves, athey each grew into a full heart purely of light and darkness so despite it's origins, vanitas' heart is real.
 

Muke

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Yup, Vanitas does in fact have a heart, as stated by Tinny, Vanitas' heart is the dark half of Ventus' heat.
 

Rydgea

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The future games hint at his return, while a lot of people say it's impossible since he was destroyed.

Ventus had an internal struggle with Vanitas that basically destroyed them both (the whole heart) until Sora intervened.
 

Vmkblaster1

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Yeah he has a heart, when they clash and their station of awakening is split, it kind of shows they each have their own heart...
 

Sephiroth0812

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Ventus had an internal struggle with Vanitas that basically destroyed them both (the whole heart) until Sora intervened.

What Ventus actually did was shattering the X-blade of which both their hearts was a part of due to Vanitas' forced partial fusion. That was what resulted in the new fracture of Ven's heart and Sora didn't intervene at all in that.
It was not until Aqua had already placed Ventus' body in the chamber of awakening that Sora, feeling Ven's pain through their already established connection, reached out to him on Riku's suggestion.

What happened to Vanitas' heart is unknown at the moment but it certainly wasn't just "one whole heart" because both Ventus and Vanitas have developed their hearts independent from each other for four years and the fusion of the two was never complete due to Ventus resisting.
Just because Vanitas' heart originated from Ventus' doesn't mean that they both run around with only pieces of a heart that is only whole if they are mashed together again.
 

Rydgea

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How did I know you would troll me if I didn't elaborate in at least three paragraphs. xD
 
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Akira

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There's really not much said.
As everyone put it, Vanitas in fact does have a heart due to it being the dark half of Ventus' heart.
 

Sephiroth0812

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How did I know you would troll me if I didn't elaborate in at least three paragraphs. xD

It's less trolling but going against the impression that Sora was somehow involved in their final struggle and that it were just two pieces of one heart running around.
The way you worded it could cause this impression with people not so versed in the lore when it isn't the case.

There's really not much said.
As everyone put it, Vanitas in fact does have a heart due to it being the dark half of Ventus' heart.

It's more than that though as Vanitas' heart as well as Ventus' developed independent from each other for four years.
In that vein it is actually similar to Naminé, Roxas and Xion with hearts growing. The only difference is that Vanitas' heart originated from a piece of Ventus'.

And btw, that new signature of yours has some cutie-vibes, lol.
 

Akira

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^ Basically it's similar with like Xion when she began developing her own memories from being independent from Sora though she had some of his memories? Or am I off on something? And yes, my sig is giving off some cutie-vibes. :3
 

Sephiroth0812

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^ Basically it's similar with like Xion when she began developing her own memories from being independent from Sora though she had some of his memories? Or am I off on something? And yes, my sig is giving off some cutie-vibes. :3

It is similar in the vein that "developing own memories" is what counts as also "nurturing an own heart" since memories are an integral part of forming one's own heart. It is the basis that differs. In Xion's case, the basis were an "empty" Replica-heart combined with some memories of Sora that formed the basis while in Vanitas' case the basis was the dark part of Ventus' heart.

The basis doesn't stay just that though in all cases but it evolves, like cell division results in eventually two fully functionable cells or, like Xemnas describes it, like a flower "bud" that can develop into a heart under the right circumstances. That's probably also why Master Xehanort in the original japanese version speaks of "seeds" he scattered.
This holds true for any possible spawned new existence that fulfills the criteria to build a heart, so Roxas, Naminé, Xion and Vanitas are all included.

This is also why I do not acknowledge the claim made sometimes that Ventus and Vanitas are "incomplete" or can't exist without each other. They can, as they each have their own hearts.

---

Who's that mini-cat guy anyways, lol?
 

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I just kept staring at Howlers sig for five minutes. Its Rin Okumura from Blue Exorcist btw.
 
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Akira

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I couldn't resist using it as my sig, it was just too adorable. =w=
 

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This thread has been very enlightening for me, I now see that Venitas is apparently the embodiment of the title 'Birth by Sleep' but there is still something I'm struggling to understand.

The opening scene depicting the sleeping Ventus being taken to Destiny Islands and Sora's heart reaching out to him in his split awakening platform, did that happen before or after the BBS storyline?
Or at least I'm assuming it was Sora's heart except that I'm unsure how to fit together Aqua's run-in with Sora and Riku at about age five or six and the heart that mended Ven's identifying itself as "a new heart".

What exactly was the struggle which created Venitas?
 

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Ansem the Wise said:
Our most precious treasures- even an empty puppet- the trees of the forest, and the petals on the wind- there are hearts around us everywhere we look. And it does not take superhuman powers to see them. Surely we remember as children the way our hearts made everything seem so shiny, and perfect.

From what we learned at the end of Dream Drop Distance, everything has a heart; if a tree, a planet, and an empty wooden puppet can all have hearts, then of course a humanoid creature of darkness like Vanitas would. He was born from a heart, it'd only make sense that he has one, even if it is just pure darkness.
 

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This thread has been very enlightening for me, I now see that Venitas is apparently the embodiment of the title 'Birth by Sleep' but there is still something I'm struggling to understand.

The opening scene depicting the sleeping Ventus being taken to Destiny Islands and Sora's heart reaching out to him in his split awakening platform, did that happen before or after the BBS storyline?
Or at least I'm assuming it was Sora's heart except that I'm unsure how to fit together Aqua's run-in with Sora and Riku at about age five or six and the heart that mended Ven's identifying itself as "a new heart".

What exactly was the struggle which created Venitas?

The scene on Destiny Island's happens before BBS's storyline. To be more precise, Ventus's heart only survives because a "newborn heart's light" (Sora's) saves his shattered heart. So that's basically around four years prior to BBS (because Sora is four years old in BBS's storyline).

I'm a bit confused about the other question. Do you mean Vanitas or Venitas (Ventus-Vanitas)?
 

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The scene on Destiny Island's happens before BBS's storyline. To be more precise, Ventus's heart only survives because a "newborn heart's light" (Sora's) saves his shattered heart. So that's basically around four years prior to BBS (because Sora is four years old in BBS's storyline).

Thanx for clearing that up.

VoidGear said:
I'm a bit confused about the other question. Do you mean Vanitas or Venitas (Ventus-Vanitas)?

What I meant to inquire is that because Vanitas is the dark side of Ventus' heart personified, how did that split and personification occur?
Did this phrasing make any more sense?
 

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What I meant to inquire is that because Vanitas is the dark side of Ventus' heart personified, how did that split and personification occur?
Did this phrasing make any more sense?

The split occurred by physical separation due to the keyblade. It's just a power the keyblade holds. The personification was simply a matter of how much darkness he was exposed to and how much physical pain the unversed make Vanitas go through, causing him to act out violently. It was just a matter of time until Vanitas would have gained some sort of personality.

In the Manga, it is also established that Vanitas is abused by Xehanort, emotionally and physically (if I'm correct). He is told by Xehanort that the only way to end his suffering is for him to merge with Ventus as one being again and form the X-Blade.

EDIT: Take the mangas with a grain of salt, they're considered non-canon to the games.
 

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It happened when Ventus was still trained by Master Xehanort ("MX" from here on).
MX wanted Ventus to open up to the darkness in his heart and use it, because he wanted to use Ventus's body as a new vessel for his own soul (his own body was pretty old and weakened).
Ventus refused, so MX decided to tear the darkness out of Ventus's heart and create a new being from it. And that way, Vanitas was born.
 
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