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Does Nomura have this series planned out



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Launchpad

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The fact that Re:Coded, which is much less story heavy, is considered to have better writing than titles like BBS, DDD, and KHII is a testament to how the simplicity of the characters and fluff dialogue are the things that keep fans on board. Re:Coded is splendidly done.
 

ChibiHearts249

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I do appreciate how they brought up Xehanort as the one who introduced Maleficent to the concept of 'other worlds' as a prequel sotra thing. But I feel like it's lacking. Somehow. But I DO appreciate at least THAT, nonetheless. After all: they fully establish that people from a certain worlds are KEPT from knowing about others outside their own. We got that down, for the most part.
 

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While Days may have be unnecessary, Nomura did say he conceived Xion during KH2's development.
I mean, if you can consider "I thought maybe a girl might've influenced Roxas to leave. I don't know, lol?" can be the same as saying he conceived of her during development, then sure.

But yeah, he's already admitted on several occasions, and rather openly, that he is writing the series as he goes. In fact, I think the only thing he has ever said he had planned out from the beginning was the series final shot/scene/ending, though he was quick to add that whether that ending would occur in one game or twenty, he couldn't say for sure.
 

Samhain

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Absolutely not! No offense to some of the KHfanboys on here (who think the series is perfect in everyway) Nomura pulls stuff out of his a$$ most of the time

And you can clearly see it with the retcons he pulled out with Xehanort in KHII and KH BBS

And I hated 358/2 Days
The problem with Kingdom Hearts is they go too much on minor characters

Axel...Roxas....XION?
Come on man. Axel & Roxas had enough development in KHII and Xion was a waste of time.

Stop falling in love with characters
 
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Master Sora

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Falling in love with fictional characters is what makes us more human. We feel sympathy and other emotions for characters that has relatable struggles similar to our struggles in the real world. I think it was good to make a small game to further develop the one shot characters they introduced in chain of memories and 2. I honestly felt like I still didn't know Roxas and wanted to know more about him and his relationship with Sora. Instead of being his nobody how does he really feel? What were his thoughts and goals before all of this happened? If characters have some relation with the game then they're not a waste of time. That's like saying Don't include any of the NPCs of the game because they're minor characters. Have no interaction with them whats so ever. If you want to write this amazing story you have and flesh it out, its not a bad thing to extend on it. Because after all this is over which probably would have been quick(KH3 still on the PS2 or PS3) people are gonna think back on the other interesting characters and wonder why they haven't had any development. What really happened to them? They should have had a bit more relation with the story so we can further understand what nobodies are, how are these characters so important to Sora in the first place, what sort of connection do they have to his memories and what sort of consequences occurred when your whole being is being experimented with?

They only spent 1 and a quarter of games with the minor characters. Having a minor character and developing them into an important major character is a big step and can make the story more interesting. At least to me it does. It wouldn't be fair to put some actual thought into a character and then leave them for scrap later.
 
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ChibiHearts249

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@Master Sora: I agree with you, on most points. It's the same reason why I like characters in things like Fullmetal Alchemist. Even a completely worthless minor character who means nothing could easily resurface and become more important, and its the fact that the writer even bothered to make that 'Average Joe' of a character into something more simply states that ANYONE can do great things. It's nicely symbolic.

My main problem is the fact that Nomura DIDN'T plan amazingly far in advance. True, he wasn't even sure if he was going to be making a second game, let alone 4 others, 2 remakes, 2 remasters, and 1 computer game. But still. The best stories are ones where the author knows the scenario very well, plans around it, and fleshes it out. These authors already know EVERYTHING that will happen, and they use this advantage to add things like foreshadowing and bringing back minor and forgotten details that at first didn't seem important. A story like that of Kingdom Hearts would have greatly benefited from being pre-planned, sure. All stories do. And having set places for all the characters from the very beginning would have made them seem less 'minor,' simply because they would never have just BEEN minor. They would have always been major plot points go begin with, but the players just wouldn't know until later.

Who knows? Maybe when we're old and gray, the series will be remade. Perhaps it will become more seamless one day. But for now? I enjoy it plenty, pre-planned or no.
 

Ruran

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Absolutely not! No offense to some of the KHfanboys on here (who think the series is perfect in everyway) Nomura pulls stuff out of his a$$ most of the time

And you can clearly see it with the retcons he pulled out with Xehanort in KHII and KH BBS

And I hated 358/2 Days
The problem with Kingdom Hearts is they go too much on minor characters

Axel...Roxas....XION?
Come on man. Axel & Roxas had enough development in KHII and Xion was a waste of time.

Stop falling in love with characters

To be fair, KH actually doesn't pull all that many retcons. In fact, they're surprisingly rare. It's more of an issue that Nomura purposely doesn't make things clear.

As well, Days was a result of Nintendo throwing money at him. They asked for a game on the DS so Nomura made Days.

Falling in love with fictional characters is what makes us more human. We feel sympathy and other emotions for characters that has relatable struggles similar to our struggles in the real world. I think it was good to make a small game to further develop the one shot characters they introduced in chain of memories and 2.

Feeling a connection for the characters and relating to them isn't a bad thing. If you're the audience. It's not necessarily bad when you're a writer either, the trouble when it interferes with the writing process, which it does for Nomura and crew sometimes.

Take Xion for example. As an imperfect Replica, she was originally written to have the same fatal flaw as Repliku. After learning her entire existence is a fabrication she was going to have a mental breakdown and go on a rampage, attempting to kill Roxas for the right to live. This was changed at the instance of the staff because they were smitten with Xion and how "pure" and how much of a "good girl" she was that they didn't want her to do anything that would tarnish that. As a result, Nomura changed the ending so that instead of Xion being an attempted murderer who went mad with despair became a martyr who sacrificed herself because she loved Roxas so much. This decision wasn't made because the staff legitimately thought that this was a better way to go, their personal feeling got in the way.

Same goes for Axel who was supposed to die, and stay dead, in CoM. The staff liked him so much they decided to let him live until the end. Then he was supposed to die after his fight with Roxas in the digital Twilight Town, but again, the staff couldn't bring themselves to ax him off.

And now he's a Keyblade wielder. *shrugs*

I honestly felt like I still didn't know Roxas and wanted to know more about him and his relationship with Sora. Instead of being his nobody how does he really feel? What were his thoughts and goals before all of this happened?

If those questions are still being asked after a game and a half was dedicated to exploring his character and telling his story through his eyes, I think there might be an issue with the writing.

If characters have some relation with the game then they're not a waste of time. That's like saying Don't include any of the NPCs of the game because they're minor characters. Have no interaction with them whats so ever. If you want to write this amazing story you have and flesh it out, its not a bad thing to extend on it. Because after all this is over which probably would have been quick(KH3 still on the PS2 or PS3) people are gonna think back on the other interesting characters and wonder why they haven't had any development. What really happened to them? They should have had a bit more relation with the story so we can further understand what nobodies are, how are these characters so important to Sora in the first place, what sort of connection do they have to his memories and what sort of consequences occurred when your whole being is being experimented with?

I...beg to differ. The mere existence of a character doesn't automatically make them important, or so important that we need a lengthy explanation behind them.

Any good story, one that as a big a KH, needs to be fleshed out but there's a limit. In fact, I think the series has become bloated with over explanations in some areas, while leaving others barren. Mind, the issue isn't that the story goes out of its way to explain stuff, it's that it goes out of its way to explain stuff that it didn't need to. I didn't need to see the daily life of Roxas. KH2 told me what happened. Xion didn't need to exist, she was a vague idea that was brought to fruition because someone else asked for Days and Nomura likes to add a mandatory female. I didn't need to see more of Axel because KH2 also told me what happened. When a story adds extra explanations it doesn't necessarily make it better or more interesting, it just bloats it and I look back at the series with aggravation.

They only spent 1 and a quarter of games with the minor characters. Having a minor character and developing them into an important major character is a big step and can make the story more interesting. At least to me it does. It wouldn't be fairbto put some actual thought into a character and then leave them for scrap later.

Sometimes a story works best when it and its characters are self contained and sometimes characters don't need to be anything but minor. In fact, Roxas and Xion were never even minor characters...they were always main characters, the only one who was minor was Axel.
 

Master Sora

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Feeling a connection for the characters and relating to them isn't a bad thing. If you're the audience. It's not necessarily bad when you're a writer either, the trouble when it interferes with the writing process, which it does for Nomura and crew sometimes.

Take Xion for example. As an imperfect Replica, she was originally written to have the same fatal flaw as Repliku. After learning her entire existence is a fabrication she was going to have a mental breakdown and go on a rampage, attempting to kill Roxas for the right to live. This was changed at the instance of the staff because they were smitten with Xion and how "pure" and how much of a "good girl" she was that they didn't want her to do anything that would tarnish that. As a result, Nomura changed the ending so that instead of Xion being an attempted murderer who went mad with despair became a martyr who sacrificed herself because she loved Roxas so much. This decision wasn't made because the staff legitimately thought that this was a better way to go, their personal feeling got in the way.

Same goes for Axel who was supposed to die, and stay dead, in CoM. The staff liked him so much they decided to let him live until the end. Then he was supposed to die after his fight with Roxas in the digital Twilight Town, but again, the staff couldn't bring themselves to ax him off.

And now he's a Keyblade wielder. *shrugs*

In a way Nomura had his pre-planned, but passion for these certain characters stirred them into another direction and had the story to be changed a bit. I think it's a rare thing, as I haven't really seen many writers change the fate of characters from their plan in order for them to have a greater role in the future. Now for the writing itself it can go anywhere so it will be harder for Nomura to make a few things up for all the major characters to now be involved in something.Honestly it's still a surprise to me after hearing Axel was supposed to be killed off, he's sitting here wielding a keyblade and is going to take part in the Xehanort saga. It leaves me wondering if Roxas is just not going to come back as another being and just be a conscious of Sora. Was Xion truly a little plot device for Days or will she be fleshed out more too? We'll just have to see where Nomura goes from here.


If those questions are still being asked after a game and a half was dedicated to exploring his character and telling his story through his eyes, I think there might be an issue with the writing.

I meant these questions are for playing Kingdom Hearts 2 and Days never existing. I mean Roxas did have a good portion of his story, but not for his days in the organization.

I...beg to differ. The mere existence of a character doesn't automatically make them important, or so important that we need a lengthy explanation behind them.

Any good story, one that as a big a KH, needs to be fleshed out but there's a limit. In fact, I think the series has become bloated with over explanations in some areas, while leaving others barren. Mind, the issue isn't that the story goes out of its way to explain stuff, it's that it goes out of its way to explain stuff that it didn't need to. I didn't need to see the daily life of Roxas. KH2 told me what happened. Xion didn't need to exist, she was a vague idea that was brought to fruition because someone else asked for Days and Nomura likes to add a mandatory female. I didn't need to see more of Axel because KH2 also told me what happened. When a story adds extra explanations it doesn't necessarily make it better or more interesting, it just bloats it and I look back at the series with aggravation.

Well Im not saying that every single character ever existed in the game is important to the main plot, but a character having a strong relationship to a major character has to have something important in turn making them somewhat of a major character too depending on the chapters of the story. And I agree there are a few number of things that didn't really need a huge explanation or an extension to confuse other people. I think if Nomura had this more planned out with the characters he really wants to explain that will affect the plot in a major way, he should stick to that. He probably had his hands tied a bit too getting requests to make a game for different consoles. I can see it was hard for him to make something up, but having it to be still relative to what was going on before.
Sometimes a story works best when it and its characters are self contained and sometimes characters don't need to be anything but minor. In fact, Roxas and Xion were never even minor characters...they were always main characters, the only one who was minor was Axel.

I agree here too. Not every interesting character introduced has to explode into something more. It's better that whatever role planned they had in one thing stays there and makes things more simple and defined that way. Axel was a surprise and now it seems Roxas and Xion feel more minor than major now.
 

Lnds500

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It's obvious from the very first that they didn't plan how the series would turn out.

Wasn't there an interview mentioning that a producer (?) from Square wanted a story with sequel potential [there was a "Final Fantasy's legacy" comment thrown in there as well] and that's where the "Ansem Seeker of Darkness" addition came in. They originally wanted it to end with Sora saving the Princesses of Heart but then they expanded on that. Then they dropped hints at the Nobodies with FM+ and in KH2 they introduced them properly.

Overall, I believe the lack of planning is what has hurt the series the most.

And let's not get started on coded, Days, the continuous mythology additions and changes etc..
 

rokudamia2

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Absolutely not! No offense to some of the KHfanboys on here (who think the series is perfect in everyway) Nomura pulls stuff out of his a$$ most of the time

And you can clearly see it with the retcons he pulled out with Xehanort in KHII and KH BBS

And I hated 358/2 Days
The problem with Kingdom Hearts is they go too much on minor characters

Axel...Roxas....XION?
Come on man. Axel & Roxas had enough development in KHII and Xion was a waste of time.

Stop falling in love with characters

In your opinion. I like xion ,ore then the BBS protagonists.

Why do you seem so angry?


It's funny how I found days and coded's story's better then BBS's story.


That game really had a clack focus, and went all over the place.
 

Gram

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It leaves me wondering if Roxas is just not going to come back as another being and just be a conscious of Sora.

Given that days was a result of Nintendo wanting a KH game I'd say it's likely Roxas was also meant to be a short timer like Axel and initially Xion.
 

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Nintendo asking Nomura to consider making a Kingdom Hearts DS game doesn't really excuse or explain anything that Days turned out to be. That's still all on Nomura. Let's also not forget that Nomura could've easily had said no. Days is not published by Nintendo. They did not pay for it to be made.
 

rokudamia2

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Nintendo asking Nomura to consider making a Kingdom Hearts DS game doesn't really excuse or explain anything that Days turned out to be. That's still all on Nomura. Let's also not forget that Nomura could've easily had said no. Days is not published by Nintendo. They did not pay for it to be made.

So, your saying Square shouldn't have been paid to make a game for a system?

Sounds like bad business.
 

Sephiroth0812

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Furthermore not to forget is that Nomura didn't made the main scenario and story for Days.
The main Scenario Writer of Days was Tomoco Kanemaki, the author of the KH novels.
She was also the one to initially create/envision Xion and Nomura agreed to include the character because it did fit with the rough concept he already had before that "Roxas should be influenced by a girl his age".
 

Zebedy

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Furthermore not to forget is that Nomura didn't made the main scenario and story for Days.
The main Scenario Writer of Days was Tomoco Kanemaki, the author of the KH novels.
She was also the one to initially create/envision Xion and Nomura agreed to include the character because it did fit with the rough concept he already had before that "Roxas should be influenced by a girl his age".
Nomura actually wrote the main scenario. He talks about it in the Ultimania. How it was his first time doing the full writing and he spent like two weeks on it, eating lots of canned food. And, again, Nomura is still to blame, as he is the director who has final say. He could have easily not have hired Kanemaki, not have agreed with her ideas, etc.

So, your saying Square shouldn't have been paid to make a game for a system?

Sounds like bad business.
Uh, I'm saying the console maker (in this case, Nintendo) did not pay Square to make a game for their console. Square made the game on their own, likely with partial funding from Disney, and were "paid" by the revenue from the sales. Aka, how most game development works.
 

King Sora X

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I like to think that he has the whole series planned out in some way, shape, or form. Maybe not every single scene, but maybe he has an endgame when it's all said and done.
 

Gram

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I like to think that he has the whole series planned out in some way, shape, or form. Maybe not every single scene, but maybe he has an endgame when it's all said and done.

It'd certainly be nice if that were the case. I wonder if he has an end game in mind now that he's got the Xehanort saga done.
 
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