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Does Nomura have this series planned out



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kingheartless500

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or is he writing as it goes

what i mean

did he plan the whole aqua, terra, ven thing...does he know how it ends, does he know every plot point of how the saga will end when he wrote kh 1
 

Solo

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I believe he writes the series in "blocks". Meaning, when writing KH1, he already had CoM and KH2 in mind (which is why we have that secret ending with Roxas), and then when doing KH2, he already had some ideas for Days and BbS (which is why we have that secret ending with TAV).

This is how I remember things, so I might be wrong. But what I do know is that he doesn't have everything planned out since the very beginning.
 

Oracle Spockanort

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Yes and no. He had the plans for KH2 in mind when he finished KH1 but he didn't know if they were going to get the chance to even do a sequel so they weren't extremely thorough plans. Nintendo asked Nomura/SE for a Kingdom Hearts game so he expanded on his ideas for KH2 and made CoM.

During KH2 he had an idea of TAV and Master Xehanort's story. Again, they weren't clear plans but they were solid enough to build the secret ending concepts. You can see how BBS changes through its development, so plenty of it was not set in stone. Another KH game was asked for by Nintendo, which led to Days. Nomura had ideas like adding a new character in, people like Tomoco Kanemaki (KH novel author, Days co-scenario writer) pitched in ideas.

coded was somewhat planned over a dinner with Hajime Tabata (where he was, in fact, not drunk), then with a group to develop the phone title.

While developing these three titles, Nomura definitely had ideas of how he wanted KH3 to be and how the series would end.

KH3D was both a mix of Nomura not having plans (he admits it in an earlier interview that he made some stuff up along the way) and having his very concrete plans for KH3.

So uh. Yeah. It's a mix of both.

Coded/Recoded was born due to a combination of alcohol (I kid you not) and a brainstorming session.

Olivia (SQEXGAL) actually located that interview and retranslated it. It makes no mentions of being drunk. Just that they had dinner. Nobody knows where the drunk thing came from now...:c
 

Gram

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Olivia (SQEXGAL) actually located that interview and retranslated it. It makes no mentions of being drunk. Just that they had dinner. Nobody knows where the drunk thing came from now...:c

Aww but it was such a funny comment. =c </3
The fall back of languages being able to be translated in multiple ways I guess.

That aside though it makes you wonder how it'd have been had Nomura stuck to the games he actually had ideas for without the requested games of CoM/Days which in turn required things like Coded and DDD to tie it all in together before KH3.
(honestly there are times I wish he hadn't had to have made the other games)
 

Sephiroth0812

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That aside though it makes you wonder how it'd have been had Nomura stuck to the games he actually had ideas for without the requested games of CoM/Days which in turn required things like Coded and DDD to tie it all in together before KH3.
(honestly there are times I wish he hadn't had to have made the other games)

You mean if the series would consist only of KH 1, KH 2 and BBS before KH III (as BBS was the only initially planned title during KH 2)?

In that case, I would probably assume that Xion would never have been created, reducing the "clock tower scene" in Blank Points to only Roxas and Axel and reducing the number of people to be saved. Furthermore we would not have the blatant hints that "everything can grow a heart" with Coded AND CoM missing, as well as Maleficent not hatching her new plan, no datascape at all and thus not having the Data-existences.

We would have some less ballast over all, but I would also think that some things would make even less sense than they do now when some events like those in CoM would be known only from hearsay.
 

rawpower

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I'm pretty sure we could have done without Days...

Yes, I'm quite sure we don't need Days. I mean we could have had it, but Xion needed to not be a thing.
 

Gram

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You mean if the series would consist only of KH 1, KH 2 and BBS before KH III (as BBS was the only initially planned title during KH 2)?

In that case, I would probably assume that Xion would never have been created, reducing the "clock tower scene" in Blank Points to only Roxas and Axel and reducing the number of people to be saved. Furthermore we would not have the blatant hints that "everything can grow a heart" with Coded AND CoM missing, as well as Maleficent not hatching her new plan, no datascape at all and thus not having the Data-existences.

We would have some less ballast over all, but I would also think that some things would make even less sense than they do now when some events like those in CoM would be known only from hearsay.

That's assuming the story would be the same as it is now lacking them I think. It's easy to keep BBS and KH1 the same regardless but I imagine KH2 would be rather different since it's story was set up by CoM.
And depending on how that would've originally been there may have not been need for the whole "heart's growing anywhere thing" since the ones the exemplified and actually needed that rule was Roxas, Xion and Namine.

We'd still have data-existences thanks to the Tron world long as it was in the original plans.
 

ChibiHearts249

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Well, I for one am glad we have the spinoffs. Sure, I get tired of waiting for the 'main titles' but I gotta say...something about 3D made it my favorite. And waiting 4 years for KH2 and 8+ years for KH3 has been a softened blow because of them. Sure, we feel the impact, but we have random plot to keep us company. I LOVE listening to people's ridiculous and also serious theories. They really throw their hearts into the whole thing, even minor details. BbS and 3D are my faves in story and play (ESPECIALLY play!) with KH2 not far behind.

But we digress! No, Nomura doesn't plan ALL of it out. I've said before; originally he wasn't sure if it would even be received well enough to make more. So KH1 was planned to be both a first AND final game, if necessary. I still think of it at the completion of Xehanort laying his plans, so I consider KH1 as the 'beginning of the end.' For a lot of people, BbS fills that space, and I don't blame them. But KH1 is where his plans both come to fruition and also start us on our journey. To me, it's the first and the last, just as Nomura had UNINTENTIONALLY intended.

So no, he didn't at first. The rest I'm not sure about, but he utilized everything he began the series with so well...It seems pre-planned at times!
 

rokudamia2

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I'm pretty sure we could have done without Days...

Yes, I'm quite sure we don't need Days. I mean we could have had it, but Xion needed to not be a thing.

While Days may have be unnecessary, Nomura did say he conceived Xion during KH2's development.
 

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He absolutely does not have everything planned and it shows. I may not be keen on everything that Nomura has approved when it comes to the non-numerical games (like the idea of a XIVth member) but it at least expands more on stuff that would've been just ignored and left unanswered.
 

Ruran

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He doesn't and funny enough I think it's TAV that stand as testament to that. Considering how they connect to the rest of the plot and characters it's pretty apparent that they're wedged in there to give them purpose.
 

Gram

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He doesn't and funny enough I think it's TAV that stand as testament to that. Considering how they connect to the rest of the plot and characters it's pretty apparent that they're wedged in there to give them purpose.

Ventus being the biggest stand out among them.
 

rawpower

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He honestly needs to just limit himself on the number of new characters he introduces in each game and needs to come up with some sort of basis for the entire KH timeline of lore. His constant introduction of new characters is what gets him in trouble story-wise. He luckily didn't do that in 3D but made up for it with the time travel plot device. I'm not entirely opposed to time travel but I think he handled it poorly. Now he has a big mess to clean up with KHIII.
 

Ruran

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Or at least wrap character stories up more often. On top of adding too many characters, Nomura and the staff tend to "fall in love" with the characters, prolonging their stories more than they need to. e.g. Xion and Axel/Lea. Personally, I think it's fine having a main/relevant character that's their for only one or two games then wrapping up their story in some way. Nomura tends to leave things ambiguous
enough though so that he can bring certain characters back if he feels like it. Which he does most of the time.

Ventus being the biggest stand out among them.

Pretty much, though I think Aqua is a close second.
 

rokudamia2

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He doesn't and funny enough I think it's TAV that stand as testament to that. Considering how they connect to the rest of the plot and characters it's pretty apparent that they're wedged in there to give them purpose.


Ventus being the biggest stand out among them.


Pretty much, though I think Aqua is a close second.

Can you explain what you mean by this? I'm a bit confused.
 

Ruran

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Can you explain what you mean by this? I'm a bit confused.

By the time TAV were introduced there were already many important characters and plot points in place. BbS being a prequel, Nomura and co. were met with the odd task of implementing these new important characters and plot points as if they were always part of the mythos. Since there's already a preestablished mythos and TAV are supposed to effect what is currently happening in the story, they're given relevance by attaching them to what has been preestablished. This is a tricky task to undertake with any prequel, unless it's planned from the beginning, otherwise it does come off as tacked on. Which is the issue with TAV. Half the time they're involvement isn't because they're legitimacy important, it's because they need something important to do so they're involved.

That means they either have to:

A) Be involved in a resolution that already had a resolution and didn't need further elaboration.

B) Fill in plot holes that no one asked to be filled or could have been answered in a much simpler way and still make as much sense.

C) Retcon

To name a few instances off, there's the issue of Kairi and Riku receiving The Keyblade Inheritance Ceremony. In fact, the whole concept of the ceremony is unnecessary, it's a plot device implemented to try and make deeper connections between characters. It was already established that a Keyblade chooses its wielder when it sees a person as worthy through having certain traits like a really strong heart. There really was no need to elaborate on it further. The KIC was introduced to make Terra and Aqua seem more important via connecting them to Riku and Kairi.

Aqua creating CO. LoD was implanted with a defense mechanism in case the forces of darkness invade to prevent it from taking over. A defense mechanism that's always off. Having a defense mechanism that functions this way makes no sense and like the KIC and Kairi, plot wise, the reason it's set up this way is to make Aqua more important and more involved with something that didn't need it. I will give it this, connecting Aqua to CO isn't a bad idea, but it needed a few tune-ups. It would have been an easy fix by saying that LoD transformed automatically when it sensed impending darkness, but Master Keeper allows its wielder to manipulate it. As it is, it's a bumpy way to add relevance.

Ven's connection to Sora and Roxas. Ven really does get the brunt end as his connection to Sora and Roxas is almost completely arbitrary. Ven's involvement is mainly to answer two things: why Sora and Roxas can dual wield and why Roxas looks different from Sora. It was already hinted at in KH2 that Roxas had a heart and 3D pretty much confirms it. Why they can dual wield would have been as simple as saying that Roxas grew his own heart, and with it, gained his own Keyblade. It was also already established that Nobodies tend to look slightly different from their Somebodies. Nomura even went out of his way to say, yes, he drew Roxas with the same face as Sora, the only thing he changed was the eyes. Now there's this big Sora/Roxas/Ven mess that didn't need to happen, but Ven needed to be important somehow.

Kairi being sent to DI. Yes, I used that forbidden word, "retcon", but I'm not sure what else to call it. It was already established in KH1FM that Ansem sent Kairi out to look for the Keyblade and that she was led to it because she's a PoH, who have a special connection to the them. As the series progresses we see that this is true. Their hearts together form a special Keyblade, they can be used as ingredients for the X-Blade, and Keyblade wielders just so happen to be attracted to them and bump into them at the right places at the right times (like both Aqua and Mickey both happening by while Kairi is being attacked and Terra finding Cinderella and Snow White just as they're in turmoil/danger). There's no reason why Kairi getting to DI should've had something to do with Aqua casting a spell on her. Or that the spell should've been used in this way or cast on her to begin with. Like other things, how Kairi got to DI was something that was already answered and no one questioned otherwise nor did it need to be changed.

There's also a few other oddities here and there that stem from BbS being a prequel, like I think Peter Pan claimed to have never seen a Keyblade before in KH1 even though he met TAV and saw them wielding them and even had Ven's toy Keyblade in his possession for a while. Neither Mickey nor Yen Sid mention that some comrades went missing a few years ago and don't think to ask Sora and Riku for help or if they know anything, knowing full well that the Keyblade wielding ability is normally inherited and Keyblades are extremely rare. Hell, Mickey even asked Vanitas of all people where he got his because he knows that only masters and those on master level can give the ceremony, and that's a really small pool. In fact, there are a bunch of characters that met TAV and saw their Keyblades yet never bring them up.

It comes with the prequel territory, but yeah, TAV's implementation tends to be clumsy.
 
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rokudamia2

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Good post. Birth by sleep does suffer from prequelitus. The fact that its a prequel means they have to connect events and characters to other characters, and events. It's part of the reason I think BBS may have some the worst writing in the series. Days also suffers from it, but not to this extent. It's interesting because re:coded suffers from the exact opposite of those two. It's plot is kinda pointless, but it's writing is excellent.

Anyway yes nomura has an idea of the general plot , but he doesn't know the small details.
 

Gram

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Ruran said:
Kairi being sent to DI. Yes, I used that forbidden word, "retcon", but I'm not sure what else to call it.
To be fair, and in your defense cause I know someone will come running to this word soon, I think that this fact is truly one of retcons that actually exist in the series.

It was a pre-established fact that was altered, like how "Ansem" wasn't truly Ansem which caused the whole mess of memory and what not.

Many cry retcon over things left ambiguous but this isn't one of those things.
 
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