Does anyone play nier? and why is a nier replicant trophy transphobic?

[AegisXIII]

Is the Nier saga good despite that?
I have heard a good amount of praise for Automata.

 

[Clue.Less]

I really can't decide whether or not to give that series a try. It sounds super interesting and yet I find the male gaze unbearable. It squicks me everytime I take a look.

Comparing this to Tarantino movies is interesting, though.

But that trophy...

Can't we have quality, thought-provoking story-telling without having to endure these "details"?

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

Is the Nier saga good despite that?
I have heard a good amount of praise for Automata.

NieR is an underrated classic. The story it tells is more impactful than Automata in my opinion. I love the game to pieces, although the gameplay is janky which isn’t shocking since it’s a game from over ten years ago. I recommend giving it a try.

I really can't decide whether or not to give that series a try. It sounds super interesting and yet I find the male gaze unbearable. It squicks me everytime I take a look.

Comparing this to Tarantino movies is interesting, though.

But that trophy...

Can't we have quality, thought-provoking story-telling without having to endure these "details"?

Yeah, it’s frustrating. Male gaze is a big turn off for me when playing games as well. I try not to think about it, but sometimes it is very in-your-face.

It’s a good story, though.

I can't believe we're talking about people being horny in a Disney video game forum.

I have yet to download that game. I recently got a PS5, and honestly I have yet to christen it. It's clean, new, and I haven't played anything on it yet. I would've tried Balan Wonderworld but then the reviews came in so that got scrapped. I was planning to get this one but I don't want people thinking I'm into flipping skirts to peek at genitals.

I might change my mind though. Has anybody seen 2B and 9S yet?

I’ve seen NieR fans who intend to just not do the trophy requirements as a way to stand up against it. Some plan to buy the game preowned to not give SE their money. Others are content with sticking with the original.

This game has costumes that give the leads the voices of 2B and 9S lol

 

[AegisXIII]

I really can't decide whether or not to give that series a try. It sounds super interesting and yet I find the male gaze unbearable. It squicks me everytime I take a look.

Comparing this to Tarantino movies is interesting, though.

But that trophy...

Can't we have quality, thought-provoking story-telling without having to endure these "details"?

I don't see how this differs from regular anime.
Japan has a complete different view on sexuality (or at least that's how I perceive it).
If I had to make a list of all cringe moments I've had watching Japanese content, it would take forever.

Even critically acclaimed movies like "Your name" start with a big closeup on a woman chest.

 

[kirabook]

Yeah. You don't have to involve yourself in the male gaze antics majority of the time. Even though Kaine is in ... However you spell that word, I can't remember the camera or plot focusing on it that much in cutscenes in the original.

In Nier Automata, it's not focused on at all imo unless the player goes out of their way to do it. Even for the characters that are technically nude, they're robots and usually entire pieces of their flesh are missing leaving just the black surface of their inner mechanisms.

 

[Idreamaboutcats]

This game has costumes that give the leads the voices of 2B and 9S lol

That’s it? That’s disappointing…

I really can't decide whether or not to give that series a try. It sounds super interesting and yet I find the male gaze unbearable. It squicks me everytime I take a look.

Genuinely curious, what is this “male gaze” thing anyway? Female characters being dressed in scant clad outfits? Or looked like they just got a boob job (*cough*Lightning*cough*)? Something else altogether?

As for my own opinions on the matter, I don’t even really know what to say. I’m bothered that I have to perv on a bunch of pixels just to get 100% and people would see it on my profile, but I can’t really comment anything about the ramifications or issues of this for my own reasons.

 

[kirabook]

Here's an article that seems well sighted.

Explainer: what does the 'male gaze' mean, and what about a female gaze?

You may have heard about the male gaze, but what is it? And is there such as thing as the female gaze?

theconversation.com

The most obvious "male gaze" you can find in media is super hero covers and posters. Think of your favorite male action hero. Usually they're posting in a way that makes them look epic, tough, strong, etc.

Now think of female ones. Theyre usually posed in ways that either shows off their boobs, butt, or that classic "model" pose. Sometimes, artists go out of their way to pose them in a "sexy" manner that is not anatomically possible.

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-aebc6c797dd94450ec13ee428c372373

It is what it is. I think most people try to be mindful of that kind of stuff now, but it still happens. It not a cardinal sin or anything, it's just a "Mm did you have to do it that way though?" Kind of feeling.

 

[Willow A113]

Here's an article that seems well sighted.

Explainer: what does the 'male gaze' mean, and what about a female gaze?

You may have heard about the male gaze, but what is it? And is there such as thing as the female gaze?

theconversation.com

The most obvious "male gaze" you can find in media is super hero covers and posters. Think of your favorite male action hero. Usually they're posting in a way that makes them look epic, tough, strong, etc.

Now think of female ones. Theyre usually posed in ways that either shows off their boobs, butt, or that classic "model" pose. Sometimes, artists go out of their way to pose them in a "sexy" manner that is not anatomically possible.

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-aebc6c797dd94450ec13ee428c372373

It is what it is. I think most people try to be mindful of that kind of stuff now, but it still happens. It not a cardinal sin or anything, it's just a "Mm did you have to do it that way though?" Kind of feeling.

I see what you mean with the poses. But when it comes to how my favorite female superheroes pose, I usually think of The Scarlet Witch with her red finger balls, and Captain Marvel always looks epic and tough. Though go back in time a couple of decades, and it's not the same.

 

[AdrianXXII]

I don't see how this differs from regular anime.
Japan has a complete different view on sexuality (or at least that's how I perceive it).
If I had to make a list of all cringe moments I've had watching Japanese content, it would take forever.

Even critically acclaimed movies like "Your name" start with a big closeup on a woman chest.

Yeah, though it's not a Japanese exclusive thing, this kind of behavior pops up in most places that are leaning towards being "boys club". Though it does seem like Japanese tend to get less pushback for objectifying women in media.

Female superheroes are another example of it happening in "boys entertainment". Having a long history of being drawn in costumes that appeal more to men and put into posses to titillate male readers. It's not entirely wrong to do something like this, but it's really annoying and off putting for those of us that don't like or enjoy it.

I think my biggest issue with how it is here in Nier, is that it's not just a little Easter Egg some more pervy players might come across, but a trophy that actually encourages you to invade another characters space and perv out to them.

 

[Idreamaboutcats]

Ahhh, so that’s it. I got a little put off by the analogy since superheroes aren’t my thing (I’m one of those KH fans who’d hate the idea of Marvel traipsing into the series, but that’s a different thread), but I get the picture. Yeah the poses are really awkward and weird.

I got curious and had to look up what the big deal is. Turns out that trophy was literally sneaking up looks on Kainé’s panties. You won’t see genitalia, but I can understand how disrespectful it can be. Looks like I’m not christening my PS5 with this. I’ll have to find another one.

 

[redcrown]

If I had to compare him to somebody, it would be Quentin Tarantino. Meaningful messages and stories that examine the nature of people but never condone the bad things they do, and also is horny for butts in Yoko Taro’s case and feet in Quentin Tarantino’s. Maybe Hideaki Anno would be a good one too?

Not trying to derail the topic here but Quentin Tarantino has gone beyond having uncomfortable fetishes in his creations and is a full on rape apologist, in the truest sense of the word. He's publicly defended Roman Polanski for his horrible crime and claimed that his victim had asked for it, and he has close ties to Harvey Weinstein. Even if he gave an apology statement it's clear it wasn't sincere, since his Once Upon a Time in Hollywood film basically praises Roman Polanski's existence. I've never been able to watch any other films of his since and refuse to ever again.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

Not trying to derail the topic here but Quentin Tarantino has gone beyond having uncomfortable fetishes in his creations and is a full on rape apologist, in the truest sense of the word. He's publicly defended Roman Polanski for his horrible crime and claimed that his victim had asked for it, and he has close ties to Harvey Weinstein. Even if he gave an apology statement it's clear it wasn't sincere, since his Once Upon a Time in Hollywood film basically praises Roman Polanski's existence. I've never been able to watch any other films of his since and refuse to ever again.

I didn’t know about the Roman Polanski apologist bullshit. Yikes.

 

[AegisXIII]

The most obvious "male gaze" you can find in media is super hero covers and posters. Think of your favorite male action hero. Usually they're posting in a way that makes them look epic, tough, strong, etc.

I am pretty sure women are not the only ones to be objectified in superhero movies. XD

 

[Idreamaboutcats]

I am pretty sure women are not the only ones to be objectified in superhero movies. XD

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Tbf Hollywood’s all about pimping out the talents’ sex appeal to rake in that sweet, sweet moolah; boy or girl or anything in between’s humanity and individuality be damned. The casting couch has been a thing since Shirley Temple’s time, you know.

It sounds crass, but it is what it is.

 

[Elysium]

Well, it's only recently that male characters are finally being pimped out the way the female characters are. Progress, I guess? lol Media creators are never going to give up sex appeal in marketing because it works, so at least most are starting to do it even-handedly now.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

I am pretty sure women are not the only ones to be objectified in superhero movies. XD

View attachment 13827View attachment 13828View attachment 13829

This sort of thing is a fairly recent change over the last 40 years in Hollywood, and only in the last 20-30 has it become a thing where the men are super buff and ripped across the board. No doubt this is meant to appeal to women, but it absolutely plays into male gaze in terms of depicting a strong, masculine and muscular lead role that men can associate with.

Women get eye candy to help bring them into seats, but men get an avatar of their power fantasy.

 

[kirabook]

This sort of thing is a fairly recent change over the last 40 years in Hollywood, and only in the last 20-30 has it become a thing where the men are super buff and ripped across the board. No doubt this is meant to appeal to women, but it absolutely plays into male gaze in terms of depicting a strong, masculine and muscular lead role that men can associate with.

Women get eye candy to help bring them into seats, but men get an avatar of their power fantasy.

Yeah. I actually meant to post this, but didn't know how to put it in words. I read/watched something that went into depth on what the male view was, and even how ripped dudes "meant for women" are actually for men to self insert themselves into the body of the hero essentially (which is what all media does, being able to walk in the shoes of the protagonist)

Ripped dudes doesn't really appeal to me, so I wanted to say that that's still not the female gaze exactly. But I know it does appeal to some women.

As the article explains, the female gaze is a little different that the typical male gaze. When a story is written, shot, and filmed by a woman, more often than not, the things you will see and feel are different. The article uses a very uh, hard subject to talk about to differentiate between male and female gaze so I suggest just reading that because I don't want to copy and paste.

The "female gaze" is an emerging way of creating film for sure, it probably needs a few more decades before it's truly defined in an easy to explain manner. For film.

Here's another example of "male gaze" vs "female gaze". If you're a reader of manga/anime, you'll know there's different demographics of manga that kinda gets sorted into genres. Shounen (young boy), shoujo (young girl), seinen (men), josei (women), etc. The focus of most shoujo manga is very different from shounen manga, wouldn't you agree?

Even if both a shounen and shoujo manga have harems, they're presented so differently. Even with the ever growing isekai genre, compare SAO or -insert other shounen isekai I refuse to watch cause thye're trash- vs Kanata Kara or Ascendance of a Bookworm.

Even when the story and/or focus is the same, there's a difference. Same is true about books overall. I think this is just now making it to actual film though is all.

Also, it's imporant to recognize just because something has "male" or "female" gaze doesn't mean everyone can't enjoy it. It'll just skew in one direction or the other is all.

 

[Idreamaboutcats]

(Huge ass wall of text)

You think isekai is bad? Wait until you read its subgenre, the Villainess/Duke’s daughters webtoons/manga. You will pull your hair out in frustration over the extreme stupidity and doormat-ness of those girls. It’s like the damsel in distress trope revival on steroids.