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Discussion: The wasted potential of Dream Drop Distance



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Absent

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Aqua is meh but Xion is great? Lord, you talkin cray.

At least Xion has her own identity and story. Aqua has nothing. Her own game doesn't care for her. We know nothing about Aqua, other than she's jealous of the bond that boys have and that her entire life revolves around Anakin and Sora ver.02.

The only thing that Aqua has is a title.
 

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One person wouldn't make much of a difference. Besides, Axel and Roxas still would've eaten that stuff on a daily basis. :p

I think you underestimate just how much ice cream Xion eats. Heck she even bought some right before she plan to murder her BFF so yea, the Organization was stimulating the local economy.
 

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At least Xion has her own identity and story. Aqua has nothing. Her own game doesn't care for her. We know nothing about Aqua, other than she's jealous of the bond that boys have and that her entire life revolves around Anakin and Sora ver.02.

The only thing that Aqua has is a title.
Some people like the fact that what you listed is all that there is to her. Her character isn't all entangled in backstory, lore, or connections with pre-existing characters. She has a title, yes, and she's also a female character with agency, power, and some decent lines... "My name is Master Aqua. Now return my friend's heart, or pay the price!"

And while Aqua's story revolves around Ven and Terra, a lot of people hate that everything in Days practically revolves around Xion while throwing other characters to the wayside in terms of significance.
 

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At least Xion has her own identity and story.
She is a literal clone who becomes another character.
Aqua has nothing. Her own game doesn't care for her. We know nothing about Aqua, other than she's jealous of the bond that boys have and that her entire life revolves around Anakin and Sora ver.02.

The only thing that Aqua has is a title.
Honestly, the development is so flat for most female characters that I could make that argument for anyone and then throw back counter-ones: we know she's kind of an honor student, she's crafty, she's a mage, she's a little self righteous until the end. She makes the active choice to break the chain of Keyblade rivals with Sora. Etc, etc, etc
 

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At least Xion has her own identity and story. Aqua has nothing. Her own game doesn't care for her. We know nothing about Aqua, other than she's jealous of the bond that boys have and that her entire life revolves around Anakin and Sora ver.02.

The only thing that Aqua has is a title.
And Xion's entire life revolved around Roxas and Axel (and Riku and Sora). What is the real point here, lol.

She like looks like Kairi but her story barely even touches that aspect of her character because it literally just exists as a red herring for the Twist that she's actually a boy's replica.

In a series where there is like 30 male characters and 4 female character is it really surprising that the female character's stories involve men in their lives? It's annoying sure, but it's also kind of a numbers game lol.
 

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Some people like the fact that what you listed is all that there is to her. Her character isn't all entangled in backstory, lore, or connections with pre-existing characters. She has a title, yes, and she's also a female character with agency, power, and some decent lines... "My name is Master Aqua. Now return my friend's heart, or pay the price!"

You know we're desperate when we settle for that. Aqua is my favorite BBS character because she's neutral. She's an empty slate so I can imagine her as a better character. Tell me something personal you learned about her, and her only.


And no Xion's story didn't revolve around Roxas and Axel, its the other way around. Xion has the identity issue before Roxas. C'mon people I thought it was obvious, unless you go by the movie. You spend learning more about Xion earlier than you do with Roxas. More than half of the game is "How can we help Xion?" and "Let's look for her" and "Come back to us."
 

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And no Xion's story didn't revolve around Roxas and Axel, its the other way around. Xion has the identity issue before Roxas. C'mon people I thought it was obvious, unless you go by the movie.
Just because she has an identity issue doesn't mean her story ultimately doesn't revolve around the men in her life? She has an identity issue because she comes from a dude, because she has to go back to a dude, because another dude insults her identity, and another dude wants her to go back to the dude, and ultimately she decides the dude should kill her so she can go back to the dude so all the dudes are happy.

lol even when she is having her identity crisis she spends it angsting on her bed asking Riku what she should do about it
 

Absent

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Fine lets put it this way. Who's the Terra, Ven and Aqua of Days? Who's the one who moves the narrative? Who follows? Who has the most impact on the story and main character?

Better yet, who impacts the other most? Xion to Roxas? Or Roxas to Xion?
 

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I wish Vanitas wasn't some clone of Sora's, and had his own original look. I liked him as a villain. He could've been one of my favorite characters but him looking like Sora ruins it. I'd rather him look like a younger version of Noctis from FFXV.
 

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Fine lets put it this way. Who's the Terra, Ven and Aqua of Days? Who's the one who moves the narrative? Who follows? Who has the most impact on the story and main character?
I honestly can't answer this in good faith because I think Days is absolute garbage and a terrible way to write a narrative and should not be upheld in any way as good writing or something to compare it to. Yes Xion is a blackhole in Days that makes the entire plot revolve around her, makes characters act out of character for her, makes the plot bend over backwards to support her "Arc", has more focus than the actual protagonist of the game, etc. But I don't consider that to be a good thing? Or that it leads to a cohesive well written story. It's lopsided, out of balance, etc.

Plus I mean are we really saying that a character can only be good if they hijack the entire plot?

Maybe you didn't get a sense of Aqua's character but I did. She feels distinct from the other characters in the story. There are aspects and flaws to her that the others don't have. She has motivations that are different from the others, etc. No she's not the blackhole star of BBS, but that doesn't mean she is a bad character lol.
 
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In a series where there is like 30 male characters and 4 female character is it really surprising that the female character's stories involve men in their lives? It's annoying sure, but it's also kind of a numbers game lol.
True, but it can get a bit trying when almost all the girl's roles are there as support for the boy's more central/involved roles, or rather, built specifically around the boy's roles or for them. It's a little more than a number's game when the girl's roles have to be connected to the boys and they are often brought into existence for the sake of the trio aspect (or to be the sole girl in an organization of 13). Especially when their corresponding boys have stories/focuses that are less involved with their female friends (Yes I'm talking about how Sora and Riku and everyone forgot Kairi existed in KH3D without any memory magic involved) . It seems like a pretty conscious writing choice, especially when nothing dictates that most of the characters have to be dudes, especially some of the one-note characters in the Org.

But that's a meta complaint. It's hard to blame the character directly for the roles they've been placed in, especially characters who aren't given the power/autonomy to break free of the roles they're in.
 

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I honestly can't answer this in good faith because I think Days is absolute garbage and a terrible way to write a narrative and should not be upheld in any way as good writing or something to compare it to. Yes Xion is a blackhole in Days that makes the entire plot revolve around her, makes characters act out of character for her, makes the plot bend over backwards to support her "Arc", has more focus than the actual protagonist of the game, etc. But I don't consider that to be a good thing? Or that it leads to a cohesive well written story. It's lopsided, out of balance, etc.

Plus I mean are we really saying that a character can only be good if they hijack the entire plot?

We all have our own biases. For someone who criticizes writing and development a lot you make no mention of BBS whatsoever. I mean I don't love Days but I don't dislike it.
 

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True, but it can get a bit trying when almost all the girl's roles are there as support for the boy's more central/involved roles, or rather, built specifically around the boy's roles or for them. It's a little more than a number's game when the girl's roles have to be connected to the boys and they are often brought into existence for the sake of the trio aspect (or to be the sole girl in an organization of 13). Especially when their corresponding boys have stories/focuses that are less involved with their female friends (Yes I'm talking about how Sora and Riku and everyone forgot Kairi existed in KH3D without any memory magic involved) . It seems like a pretty conscious writing choice, especially when nothing dictates that most of the characters have to be dudes, especially some of the one-note characters in the Org.

But that's a meta complaint. It's hard to blame the character directly for the roles they've been placed in, especially characters who aren't given the power/autonomy to break free of the roles they're in.
And I'm definitely not disagreeing with that. I think there should be more female characters and I think their roles should amount to more than support staff. That they should have their own plots going on and their own developments and all of that.

But I mean, can we also acknowledge that we are putting way more pressure on the female characters than we are on the male characters? Xion is considered a good character because she is the Focus, but Aqua is considered bad because she isn't the prime focus? You don't hear people saying Axel was a bad character in KH2 because Sora was the focus. That Riku has been a bad character in all of the games where he wasn't the focus. Why are we even making this a competition based on gender anyway, like there is and can only be one Good female character in KH.

We all have our own biases. For someone who criticizes writing and development a lot you make no mention of BBS whatsoever.
I have plenty to dislike about BBS and have said so many places before, lol.

I mean I don't love Days but I don't dislike it.
The fact that you also criticize writing and development a lot but don't have anything real to say about Days is just as noteworthy imo.
 

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And I'm definitely not disagreeing with that. I think there should be more female characters and I think their roles should amount to more than support staff. That they should have their own plots going on and their own developments and all of that.

But I mean, can we also acknowledge that we are putting way more pressure on the female characters than we are on the male characters? Xion is considered a good character because she is the Focus, but Aqua is considered bad because she isn't the prime focus? You don't hear people saying Axel was a bad character in KH2 because Sora was the focus. That Riku has been a bad character in all of the games where he wasn't the focus. Why are we even making this a competition based on gender anyway, like there is only one Good female character in KH.


I have plenty to dislike about BBS and have said so many places before, lol.


The fact that you also criticize writing and development a lot but don't have anything real to say about Days is just as noteworthy imo.


I did when I said the game was Xion heavy. The game revolves around her more than Roxas, which was not what we were promised. That scene in Agrabah in Day 355-357(I can't remember) with Roxas makes me see that they cared to write these characters.
 

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That scene in Agrabah in Day 355-357(I can't remember) with Roxas makes me see that they cared to write these characters.
I have no idea what you're talking about. The only scene I remember from Agrabah is when Roxas is trying to defeat a boss and it's impossible and then Xion one-hit KOs it.

Days, for me, feels like the KH series shrugging its shoulders. You can practically feel it in every aspect of its creation.
 

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We all have our own biases. For someone who criticizes writing and development a lot you make no mention of BBS whatsoever. I mean I don't love Days but I don't dislike it.

Yeah, but you're forgetting the real shitty storytelling here: Terra.

Despite how much Aqua might seem bland to other people and likable to others, Terra is almost universally hated for his shitty writing, terrible voice acting, and non-existent expression. At least Aqua's story had a kick-ass resolution, that awesome secret ending, and the decency to have consistent and generally good voice acting throughout. (btw, totally agree with Audo on this one, I think Days is way worse storytelling-wise than Birth by Sleep [also Xion is so much lamer than aqua 'ducks at flying tomatoes])
 

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I did when I said the game was Xion heavy. The game revolves around her more than Roxas, which was not what we were promised. That scene in Agrabah in Day 355-357(I can't remember) with Roxas makes me see that they cared to write these characters.
You mean the one where he starts crying after wondering what the hell was going on and if he really had a purpose in the world? (I can't really remember the details, and I don't feel like digging my copy of Days out right now.)

I think we can mostly thank the localization team and the fact that most of the dialogue was written text for moments like that. They really did hit hard when they happened, usually with better writing because they're free from awkward lip-synching and timing.
We all have our own biases. For someone who criticizes writing and development a lot you make no mention of BBS whatsoever. I mean I don't love Days but I don't dislike it.

For the record, I don't hate Days. The first time I played it, I enjoyed it a lot. I do have to acknowledge that it does have flaws, however.
 
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And I'm definitely not disagreeing with that. I think there should be more female characters and I think their roles should amount to more than support staff. That they should have their own plots going on and their own developments and all of that.

But I mean, can we also acknowledge that we are putting way more pressure on the female characters than we are on the male characters? Xion is considered a good character because she is the Focus, but Aqua is considered bad because she isn't the prime focus? You don't hear people saying Axel was a bad character in KH2 because Sora was the focus. That Riku has been a bad character in all of the games where he wasn't the focus. Why are we even making this a competition based on gender anyway, like there is and can only be one Good female character in KH.
I definitely agree with that. There are so few girls and they face way tougher scrutiny than the boys even for actions that the boys also do. I was trying to say that we shouldn't factor the role that the girls have into their worth and ability as characters, since that is a writing issue rather than a character issue. Of course, the way they carry out their roles, their behavoir, etc. are all things that factor into their characters, and I can see why you're not a fan of Xion. She is the center of the game. Coming into the series, I didn't know that she wasn't supposed to be.

Not to say I don't have any problems or biases towards characters, of course.
 

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I have no idea what you're talking about. The only scene I remember from Agrabah is when Roxas is trying to defeat a boss and it's impossible and then Xion one-hit KOs it.

Place the Device, Mission 90. At the end of the mission, one of the most powerful scenes in KH.
 
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