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Discussion: The wasted potential of Dream Drop Distance



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Mr. Megaverse

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Well, again, then prepare to be forever disappointed, and, honestly, I'm not sure how you lasted how long you have in KH without being frustrated to the point of leaving because a lot of the game is left vague and meant to be simply taken at face value. I mean if you have such a hard time accepting recompletion I can't imagine how you make sense of Naminé lol.

For anyone curious though, this was how Nomura originally described the recompletion process:

The Namine thing i'm expecting to be explained later on honestly. From KH1 to Chain of Memories to KH2 to 358/2 Days the series honestly made complete sense to me with the exception being Namine of course and also the exact process of how a Replica is made, but I expected those to be explained later on in the series. It wasn't until BBS that I started to get confused and question a few things and then with KH3D I was like "Okaaay, so i'm starting to build a list of questions I really need answered now." Honestly i'm hoping some of this is addressed in KH3. For example the whole nobody thing may be explained when talking about restoring Roxas and the others to be their own people, and my reaction will be "Well finally I get my answer. Okay i'm cool, proceed game."

Not to mention I find myself not only with KH, but a lot of stories where I keep thinking how I would have written it which I find to be fun in a weird sort of way. In the case of Kingdom Hearts, I really wouldn't have made any changes to KH1, COM, or KH2 as I see nothing that bothers me about their stories with the exception of stating more clearly that the Kingdom Hearts in KH1 was an artificial one created from the hearts of worlds, changing the Keyblade of People's Heart to fit more with the X-Blade, and expanding more on the DTD. But once we get into 358/2 Days, BBS, & KH3D that's where I start thinking that I would make some changes. As for Re:Coded, well that game wouldn't exist in my version of the story.
 

Audo

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The Namine thing i'm expecting to be explained later on honestly.
Again, you'll be disappointed as Nomura considered Naminé sufficiently explained lol.

And I'm curious as to why details like the Organization Coat protecting against the darkness corrupting someone's heart is considered "explained" when it too is basically a "Because it does" level? Like the KH series is full of these kinds of things, where there is no detailed explanation, and you just have to take it at face value as being how it is.
 

Antifa Lockhart

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Namine needs to stay a mystery. Life is full of anomalies and Kingdom Hearts shouldn't be an exception. But regardless, I'm almost positive that Nomura will never touch replicas again.

For the record, the body and soul isn't kept in mint condition upon its separation from the heart, nor upon a Nobody's destruction. It disintegrates and then reforms. This isn't conjecture, we've seen it every time someone's lost their heart. Their body explodes into pixie dust. It's not a body being freed from darkness imprisoning it, it just turns into something else.

I side-eye people who place their personal canon preferences and writing in front of what's being handed to them past the realms of fan fiction and headcanon. It can be a great tool for writers, but to a point it just gets a little precious. Kind of like writing majors who always talk about their novels that never get published or even finished.
 

Audo

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Namine needs to stay a mystery. Life is full of anomalies and Kingdom Hearts shouldn't be an exception. But regardless, I'm almost positive that Nomura will never touch replicas again.

For the record, the body and soul isn't kept in mint condition upon its separation from the heart, nor upon a Nobody's destruction. It disintegrates and then reforms. This isn't conjecture, we've seen it every time someone's lost their heart. Their body explodes into pixie dust. It's not a body being freed from darkness imprisoning it, it just turns into something else.

I side-eye people who place their personal canon preferences and writing in front of what's being handed to them past the realms of fan fiction and headcanon. It can be a great tool for writers, but to a point it just gets a little precious. Kind of like writing majors who always talk about their novels that never get published or even finished.
i like you.


As for what makes a Nobody different from a human, the biggest difference is that, yeah, they don't have a heart. But they are also born as a different creature, one who is considered non-existent, and whose makeup is neither light nor darkness, but in-between. This is why Nobodies have abilities that humans don't naturally possess (such as the ability to create Corridors of Darkness). Humans are beings of light. Nobodies function differently from humans as they uses memories without a heart to craft their personality and feelings. Yes Nobodies can grow a heart, but that still keeps them as Nobodies, just like a puppet who grows a heart is still a puppet. The body becomes this new being, and thus, isn't the correct vessel for its original heart to return to. Once defeated, the body can become that vessel once more, and then it will be rejoined with its heart.

Nomura said:
ecause Nobodies were a new kind of being beyond all expectations, said to be 'nonexistent beings', the lack of background knowledge made it necessary for them to collect information relating to their own condition. One major feature of the Nobodies is that they form personalities and feelings through memories without hearts. This means that 'memory' is a very important element to them.
 

Mr. Megaverse

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Again, you'll be disappointed as Nomura considered Naminé sufficiently explained lol.

And I'm curious as to why details like the Organization Coat protecting against the darkness corrupting someone's heart is considered "explained" when it too is basically a "Because it does" level? Like the KH series is full of these kinds of things, where there is no detailed explanation, and you just have to take it at face value as being how it is.

When did Nomura state he considered the Namine thing explained? Heck I can give a better explanation: Kairi was able to give Sora a new body when he became a heartless. So Namine being born as a result of Kairi's heart leaving Sora was born with a body because of Kairi's princess of heart powers. Then all you have to do is wait for the Princess of Heart powers to be explained, which if you tie into the light fragments of the X-Blade since there is a connection between the X-Blade and Kingdom Hearts & Kingdom Hearts can perform freaking miracles (like an artificial one giving Nobodies hearts) then it's not farfetched to believe bodies could be created too.

As for the Organization Coats, they were originally designed by Master Xehanort who studied darkness more than anyone else, I don't find it hard to believe he could create something to counteract the darkness and make coats out of it. Not to mention he could have taking some materials from his Keyblade Armor which is supposed to shield a person from darkness. Plus a coat is not nearly as important as the composition of a human being which is a vital point of the larger story of the series. Some information and plot points just rank higher in importance than others and therefore need more explanation than other concepts.

Namine needs to stay a mystery. Life is full of anomalies and Kingdom Hearts shouldn't be an exception. But regardless, I'm almost positive that Nomura will never touch replicas again.

For the record, the body and soul isn't kept in mint condition upon its separation from the heart, nor upon a Nobody's destruction. It disintegrates and then reforms. This isn't conjecture, we've seen it every time someone's lost their heart. Their body explodes into pixie dust. It's not a body being freed from darkness imprisoning it, it just turns into something else.

I side-eye people who place their personal canon preferences and writing in front of what's being handed to them past the realms of fan fiction and headcanon. It can be a great tool for writers, but to a point it just gets a little precious. Kind of like writing majors who always talk about their novels that never get published or even finished.

How the heck can a body disintegrate and reform on it's own. You can explain the body and soul leaving the realm of light and appearing in the realm in-between as the realm of light rejecting the body and soul due to it's now lack of having any light of it's own. In which case it's more like a transportation of the body and soul from one realm to another, not disintegration, and not that different from Merlin's teleportation or using a corridor of darkness. In the case of a Nobody being defeated, how many times did they say "Nobodies fade back into darkness when defeated" in KH2 as if it means the body just dissolves literally into darkness.
 

Audo

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Heck I can give a better explanation
I'm getting the sense that this is the bigger problem here, lol.

Kairi was able to give Sora a new body when he became a heartless. So Namine being born as a result of Kairi's heart leaving Sora was born with a body because of Kairi's princess of heart powers.
What? That doesn't even make sense. What does Kairi giving Sora a new body AFTER Nami was born, have to do with Nami having a body before that occurred?

Not to mention he could have taking some materials from his Keyblade Armor which is supposed to shield a person from darkness.
And how does the armour protect someone from darkness? It's just metal. You see every answer can just lead to another question. At some point you just have to accept the information you're given lol, otherwise the chain will never stop lol.

How the heck can a body disintegrate and reform on it's own.
You're going to get hung up on this forever, but literally, it's because that is just how the universe works in Kingdom Hearts. It ain't based on the real world, lol.
 
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Antifa Lockhart

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How the heck can a body disintegrate and reform on it's own.
Magic~*~*

You can explain the body and soul leaving the realm of light and appearing in the realm in-between as the realm of light rejecting the body and soul due to it's now lack of having any light of it's own.

Okay. I don't think that has anything to do with it, but okay.

In which case it's more like a transportation of the body and soul from one realm to another, not disintegration, and not that different from Merlin's teleportation or using a corridor of darkness.
You watch it explode though. It flies away in little glimmers. This isn't the body going to a different realm, it's what happens to a body once it becomes vacated of a heart by the Keyblade. In the case of Eraqus and Master Xehanort, the body isn't being transported to another realm, because we never see it again. (I mean I guess it could be, but I'm guessing their bodies just faded away or became suspended in Darkness, which is what Nomura says happens to Nobodies who are destroyed before their hearts are returned. This suspended state doesn't have to mean they're intact upon their stasis.

In the case of a Nobody being defeated, how many times did they say "Nobodies fade back into darkness when defeated" in KH2 as if it means the body just dissolves literally into darkness.

Oh, you can say Nobodies dissolve but I can't say bodies disintegrate into pixie dust?
In any case, what you said doesn't hinder my point?
 

Mr. Megaverse

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I'm getting the sense that this is the bigger problem here, lol.


What? That doesn't even make sense. What does Kairi giving Sora a new body AFTER Nami was born, have to do with Nami having a body before that occurred?



You're going to get hung up on this forever, but literally, it's because that is just how the universe works in Kingdom Hearts. It ain't based on the real world, lol.

With the whole Namine thing my explanation works like this: Kingdom Hearts can restore missing pieces of a being, it can create miracles. The X-Blade coexisted with Kingdom Hearts and therefore shared some of it's power. The 7 fragments of the X-Blade became the 7 hearts of the princesses and as such the princesses possess some of the powers of Kingdom Hearts itself including restoration. As such when Kairi's heart separated from Sora's body Kairi's heart caused a body to be formed for the resulting nobody which was Namine. Kairi then restored Sora from his heartless state and also granted him a new body. It's not that Namine's birth is tied to Sora being restored from his heartless state. I'm saying Princesses of Heart have the power to create bodies.

Going back to your other post, are you saying that human bodies in KH are different from human bodies in the real world? I assumed that humans in KH are made up of flesh and blood, but the way you presented it makes it seem that human bodies are literally made of light itself. In that case you're saying that the human body of light gets converted into a body made of nothingness stuff and then when the Nobody is defeated the body is converted back into light? In that case why not just state that in the game? Why doesn't Ansem or Xehanort just explain "Bodies are made of light"? Otherwise i'm left to assume the bodies are made of flesh and blood. If you have bodies made of something other than just physical matter well then that changes things completely and you can have a bit more creative freedom with that. But then I have to wonder why only a body made of light is capable of dying where as a body of nothingness can't die.
 

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When did Nomura state he considered the Namine thing explained? Heck I can give a better explanation: Kairi was able to give Sora a new body when he became a heartless. So Namine being born as a result of Kairi's heart leaving Sora was born with a body because of Kairi's princess of heart powers.

This is possibly the least nonsensical thing that I've seen regarding this issue. Namine and Roxas were created at the same time, so there's no way that her body could come from Sora's new body. Also, and I'm not entirely sure where this is confirmed, but Sora was essentially a walking heart with the appearance of a human until Roxas and Xion were absorbed back into him, so the fact that Kairi "crafted him a new body" wouldn't make sense in this situation, since we already know Sora's body, his only body, is Roxas.

As for Naminè, the general consensus is that she was created from Sora's body when Kairi's heart was released from Sora. It is not known how she was divided up this way, or why she has these powers, so it'll (hopefully) be a mystery a long time coming.

How the heck can a body disintegrate and reform on it's own.

It's Kingdom Hearts, use your imagination. Anything is possible if you make it Kingdom Hearts!

In the case of a Nobody being defeated, how many times did they say "Nobodies fade back into darkness when defeated" in KH2 as if it means the body just dissolves literally into darkness.

Exactly one million times. But the problem is that Mansex basically reversed everything we already knew at the end of DDD when we found out that the original can be reformed if the Heartless and the Nobody are defeated, so we can also assume from that information that Nobodies don't all just "fade into darkness." It was pretty clear that that's the case since, I don't know PRACTICALLY EVERY ORGANIZATION XIII MEMBER CAME BACK IN ONE FORM OR ANOTHER! (sorry if I sound like an angry bitch at this point, just this is all shit I've explained a million times before)
 

Audo

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The 7 fragments of the X-Blade became the 7 hearts of the princesses and as such the princesses possess some of the powers of Kingdom Hearts itself including restoration.
I already told you that's not true.

As such when Kairi's heart separated from Sora's body Kairi's heart caused a body to be formed for the resulting nobody which was Namine. Kairi then restored Sora from his heartless state and also granted him a new body.
She just magically births two bodies.

Nevermind the fact that the game states that Nami doesn't have a body.

Going back to your other post, are you saying that human bodies in KH are different from human bodies in the real world?
Clearly? I don't know about you but I certainly don't see my body exploding into fairy dust upon death or losing my heart lol.

I assumed that humans in KH are made up of flesh and blood, but the way you presented it makes it seem that human bodies are literally made of light itself.
I meant they were beings of the Light Realm, not that they were literally made of nothing but light.

But the problem is that Mansex basically reversed everything we already knew at the end of DDD when we found out that the original can be reformed if the Heartless and the Nobody are defeated
Xemnas isn't the one who tells us that, and we don't learn it in KH3D lol.
 

Antifa Lockhart

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With the whole Namine thing my explanation works like this: Kingdom Hearts can restore missing pieces of a being, it can create miracles. The X-Blade coexisted with Kingdom Hearts and therefore shared some of it's power.

Sure.
The 7 fragments of the X-Blade became the 7 hearts of the princesses and as such the princesses possess some of the powers of Kingdom Hearts itself including restoration.
You misunderstand. Yen Sid says, and I'm going off memory but it will almost be verbatim, the the light of X Blade broke into seven to protect the number of pure hearts left in the world. Meaning, they already existed upon the X-Blade's destruction.

As such when Kairi's heart separated from Sora's body Kairi's heart caused a body to be formed for the resulting nobody which was Namine. Kairi then restored Sora from his heartless state and also granted him a new body. It's not that Namine's birth is tied to Sora being restored from his heartless state. I'm saying Princesses of Heart have the power to create bodies.
Possibly, but the 3D Chronicles, which were created specifically to clear up stuff about the series, says that Kairi restored Sora with her strong feelings for him.

Going back to your other post, are you saying that human bodies in KH are different from human bodies in the real world? I assumed that humans in KH are made up of flesh and blood, but the way you presented it makes it seem that human bodies are literally made of light itself.
Hearts in KH are metaphysical balls of light and darkness that can survive outside the body. Yes KH humans are different from us. Also, humans aren't the only living beings in KH. Your party literally consists of 2/3 animals.

In that case you're saying that the human body of light gets converted into a body made of nothingness stuff and then when the Nobody is defeated the body is converted back into light? In that case why not just state that in the game? Why doesn't Ansem or Xehanort just explain "Bodies are made of light"? Otherwise i'm left to assume the bodies are made of flesh and blood. If you have bodies made of something other than just physical matter well then that changes things completely and you can have a bit more creative freedom with that. But then I have to wonder why only a body made of light is capable of dying where as a body of nothingness can't die.
There's definitely flesh and blood, but see: my point about hearts.
 

Mr. Megaverse

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I already told you that's not true.


She just magically births two bodies.

Nevermind the fact that the game states that Nami doesn't have a body.


Clearly? I don't know about you but I certainly don't see my body exploding into fairy dust upon death or losing my heart lol.


I meant they were beings of the Light Realm, not that they were literally made of light.

The 7 Fragments of Light = The POH was me stating of how I would have explained the Namine situation, I was stating that in regards to the actual story of the series. And I'm not saying that in my version of how I would write it that Namine's body is tied into Sora being restored to his heartless state, but that restoring bodies is a general power of the POH in my explanation of the Namine situation of how I would have written it.

And as for everything else, look i'm tired, I just don't like vagueness. The simple fact is I want an answer to every question and explanation for everything. Other wise it deviates from a proper sense of order and stability and I don't like that. Rather in be in fictional stories or real life, I want reasons and explanations. It's how I operate. I hate accepting things without knowing why they are the way they are, it feels terrible to do that, like trying to cope with an illusion. If you can get over that and accept things without any rhyme or reason then good for you, but i'm not built that way.
 

Antifa Lockhart

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. Rather in be in fictional stories or real life, I want reasons and explanations. It's how I operate. I hate accepting things without knowing why they are the way they are, it feels terrible to do that, like trying to cope with an illusion. If you can get over that and accept things without any rhyme or reason then good for you, but i'm not built that way.

I get you, dude, but this is literally a game built 90% on Disney interpretations of Fairy Tales. It's not meant to be.
 

Mr. Megaverse

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This may not be the series for you.

I started playing this series back when KH1 first came out, i've stuck with it since then, it's still my favorite video game series, and i'm sticking with it until the end. I may not like Nomura's vagueness, but I love these characters and this world enough to where I can't quite it. Though one of these interviewers really need to question Nomura's writing style and ask why exactly he chooses to be so vague and overcomplicate things.
 

Audo

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Though one of these interviewers really need to question Nomura's writing style and ask why exactly he chooses to be so vague and overcomplicate things.
We already know why, lol. First part is because he believes a game should have elements that the player can theorize and interpret for themselves, things that can cause discussion and interest. The second part is because he likes the story to be surprising for the player, featuring twists and turns to keep them interested and on their feet.
 

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Welp, you're not gonna get those explanations and this whole thing really has gone nowhere. Maybe you operate in the way you described, but unfortunately for you, Kingdom Hearts has not, does not, and will never work that way. You're talking about a franchise that can hardly keep its own basic plot straight.

If the lack of "proper sense and order" distresses you this much, you may want to abstain from all of this. The games have never been free from chaotic conjecture and vague confusion. I mean, the entire opening scene of the first game made no sense aside from foreshadowing.
 

Mr. Megaverse

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We already know why, lol. First part is because he believes a game should have elements that the player can theorize and interpret for themselves, things that can cause discussion and interest. The second part is because he likes the story to be surprising for the player, featuring twists and turns to keep them interested and on their feet.

And you don't think Nomura doesn't go a little overboard with that? I understand you need twist and turns but let's tone it down a little bit so that more people can understand what's going on.

Welp, you're not gonna get those explanations and this whole thing really has gone nowhere. Maybe you operate in the way you described, but unfortunately for you, Kingdom Hearts has not, does not, and will never work that way. You're talking about a franchise that can hardly keep its own basic plot straight.

If the lack of "proper sense and order" distresses you this much, you may want to abstain from all of this. The games have never been free from chaotic conjecture and vague confusion. I mean, the entire opening scene of the first game made no sense aside from foreshadowing.

But don't think it's only gotten more chaotic since KH2? Again Nomura needs to tone it down a bit and introduce these twist and turns slowly over time. Not jam pack them all in the Xehanort saga. Like time travel and the foretellers and stuff could have been saved for the next saga.
 

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Rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat....

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