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Discussion: The wasted potential of Dream Drop Distance



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Absent

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If this series has taught us something, its that ANYTHING is possible. Why do we keep making excuses(While some are valid) for Nomura and his games instead of demanding good writing and gameplay?

I can name many things I love from all the games but it doesn't mean I'll excuse Nomura for some of his decisions. Never settle for mediocre or else creators/writers can get away with anything.
 

Audo

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It was not even awakened during KH 2. KH DDD is the first time Ven's heart shows any activity on its own since the finale of BBS.
As far as I can see it, it is clear that his heart was awakened by Xion's death, hence the Keyblade. No other event would really explain his active force in KH3D really. The fact that he didn't do anything in KH2, well, we all know why that was (hint: he wasn't thought of then. that's the rub. tho there was nothing really in KH2 that would've required him to act like he did in KH3D anyway).

If I understood it correctly this "Destiny Islands" is actually the very core of Sora's own heart and Roxas, Xion and Ven "vanishing" after their questions while Data-DiZ remains there the whole time seems to indicate the latter is fully awake while they're apparently in a sort of "half-sleep" which means they can occasionally make contact with "awake" people like Riku, but not for an extended period.
Eh. It's pretty much all opened to interpretation. Them disappearing could mean nothing truly significant aside from them wanting all three of them to ask Riku a question and that be it.

If this series has taught us something, its that ANYTHING is possible. Why do we keep making excuses(While some are valid) for Nomura and his games instead of demanding good writing and gameplay?

I can name many things I love from all the games but it doesn't mean I'll excuse Nomura for some of his decisions. Never settle for mediocre or else creators/writers can get away with anything.
Yeah I totally agree. Criticism is necessary.
 
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If this series has taught us something, its that ANYTHING is possible. Why do we keep making excuses(While some are valid) for Nomura and his games instead of demanding good writing and gameplay?

I can name many things I love from all the games but it doesn't mean I'll excuse Nomura for some of his decisions. Never settle for mediocre or else creators/writers can get away with anything.

Nomura more or less already has IMO.

Criticism should definitely be done. Everyone says they get tired of hearing disappointed fans like myself bitch but I'm incredibly tired of the opposite camp letting any damn thing slide just because of some nostalgia, Lea fanservcie, and character love.
Their being a part of the problem by not acknowleging a problem with something.

Criticism is acknowleging a flaw you'd like to improved kids not bitching. If we hated it truly we wouldn't play them to have something to bitch about.
 

h.e.hassanein

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It is not the premise itself that is the problem, but the way how it is achieved and presented in-game that most people have a problem with.

Very true, and a big reason why DDD was a huge flop for me.
Since COM you have this Org. XIII whose sole purpose is to revive Kingdom Hearts, get their hearts back- basically heed Xemnas's orders, whatever purpose they serve. So it makes sense that when we find out it'll be 7 lights against 13 darknesses, the 13 darknesses would mostly be comprised of whatever's left of Org. XII. But what with the old replica plan, the Xehanort's possessing(?) members of Org. XIII, and now with the time-traveling, getting more Xehanorts from different points in his life .....I feel like the plot is just going to explode. There's just too much going on in Xehanort's big plan that it doesn't even seem like a big plan anymore, it seems like someone just making things up as he goes along. Nomura, pls.

Seriously. The only entry that has more wasted potential than BbS is Days. I mean, you hear they're making a prequel set 10 years before KH1, what are the things you'd want or expect to see from that time? Maleficent taking over RG, young Squall and the other FF characters fighting Heartless and abandoning RG, the apprentices screwing over Ansem the Wise, the Heartless experiments (including Isa and Lea, perhaps?), Pete being banished from Disney Castle by Mickey, what Keyblade wielder Triton met in Atlantica, Kairi's life at RG and then her first arriving at Destiny Islands, maybe TRON's world being changed because of Xehanort and Maleficent beginning her villains group, etc. We only get very vague ideas about everything happening in RG, Xigbar's backstory, and the beginning of Maleficent's arc. Seeing Hercules when he was young was also a nice idea. Otherwise, it doesn't touch on any of the things you'd expect to see in a KH prequel.

Very, very, very true. And like someone else on this thread said, it wasn't like the writers had to stick to that one year in KH history, ten years before KH I. We should've seen more of these things instead of being told the same, vaguely meaningless story from 3 different perspectives. While TAV are important characters of themselves, I kept getting the feeling that they kept accidentally and painfully briefly brushing past the Main Plot (seeing Maleficent, interacting with SRK, meeting those who would later become Org. XIII and so on) but then go back to their own dull story. The game was such a tease in that way- "Oh you wanted to know about the big events that shaped KH's story? Here'sapeek- that's enough now, back to Ven's search for Terra."
WE DIDN'T EVEN GET TO MEET ANSEM THE WISE. WE DIDN'T EVEN GET TO GO INTO THE CASTLE. 90% OF THE THINGS WE CARED TO KNOW ABOUT WERE IN THE ENDING CUTSCENES. </rant>

True, but it's particularly noteworthy for this game because it didn't really have an excuse. She was fine in KH1, in all game set between that and KH2 she was on the island with no way to follow all year. I don't know why a data version of her was nowhere in Re:Coded, but that's a different gripe and doesn't go into developing the current her. DDD was the first game set after KH2, where Kairi said the three of them were going to stick together from now on and where she got her keyblade.

The only real reason behind her not being allowed to sit at the tower like Donald and Goofy (especially since she'd be safer sticking with them than staying along at Destiny Islands again) was because the twist secret ending relied on you either forgetting Kairi exists or forgetting that she can wield a keyblade.

The problem with this is because Kairi was reserved as the big surprise ending in DDD, she's now definitely going to be pushed to the sidelines in KH III. DDD would've been the perfect time to train Kairi like they took the time to train Lea. KH III has too much going on for it to add training session for Kairi and let her fight alongside Sora and Riku at all- it took them several games to get to the level they'll be at now- let alone have her fight as one of the 7 lights! The idea of Kairi training at Yen Sid's throughout the game and magically being ready to fight 13 different Xehanorts is ridiculous.
 

Audo

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I'll always love KH3D though. When it got into the smaller character moments, it was really rewarding, imo. Stuff like this:

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CHAIN OF MEMORIES (2004)
MICKEY: So, Riku… what’s next? Are you going home?
RIKU: I don’t know if I can. It’s still there. His scent… it’s faint, but not gone. I can’t go home until it is. His darkness may still have a hold on me…


DREAM DROP DISTANCE (2012)
DIZ: You can go home now.
RIKU: Really?


and


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KINGDOM HEARTS (2002)
SORA: I didn’t ask for this.
LEON: Tough luck.


DREAM DROP DISTANCE (2012)
SORA: I know the Keyblade didn’t choose me, and I don’t care. I’m proud to be a small part of something bigger, the people it did choose. My friends, they are my power!



and


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KINGDOM HEARTS (2002)
SORA: Riku!
ANSEM: Don’t bother. Your voice can no longer reach him where he is.


DREAM DROP DISTANCE (2012)
RIKU: Sora saved me once. And… I heard him call my name. He needs me.



and



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INGDOM HEARTS II (2006)
ROXAS: Tell me. Tell me why you were chosen.


DREAM DROP DISTANCE (2012)
ROXAS: This could have been the other way around.
SORA: Huh?
ROXAS: But it really has to be you.
SORA: What do you mean?
ROXAS: There are so many hearts that are connected to yours. You’re me, so you can feel what I felt.
SORA: No. Roxas, you’re you. We’re not the same. I wanted to tell you that. That you deserve as much as I do to be your own person.
ROXAS: Sora, see? That’s why it has to be you.



and

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KINGDOM HEARTS II (2006)
DIZ: But first, perhaps you could tell me your true name.
RIKU: It’s Ansem.


DREAM DROP DISTANCE (2012)
DIZ: Young man! I do not believe you ever told me your name.
RIKU: It’s Riku.





like ughhhhh. i could go on and on with this game.

(and i would but there's a limit of 10 images per post. my original post had 30+ lol)
 

Taochan

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like ughhhhh. i could go on and on with this game.

(and i would but there's a limit of 10 images per post. my original post had 30+ lol)
you have my permission to double post with all of your perfect examples of what made ddd good
 

Audo

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you have my permission to double post with all of your perfect examples of what made ddd good
lol i wish i knew that before i deleted them (they're a hassle to add)

BUT OKAY.

MORE THINGS THAT MAKE DDD GOOD:


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and


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KINGDOM HEARTS (2002)
LEON: Maybe it’s hopeless for ordinary people to oppose the darkness.


DREAM DROP DISTANCE (2012)
RIKU: But you failed. Sora stopped you in your tracks on both counts.
XEHANORT: Yes… he did. That dull, ordinary boy…

and


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and


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and
 

Audo

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KINGDOM HEARTS (2002)
KAIRI: I can’t help?
SORA: You’d kind of be in my way.


DREAM DROP DISTANCE (2012)
YEN SID: I have come to learn that you, too, can wield a Keyblade. I’m glad you are here.


and


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tumblr_mqz84d8Q4Y1rku80no2_250.gif



KINGDOM HEARTS (2002)
SORA: A storm? Oh, no, the raft!


DREAM DROP DISTANCE (2012)
SORA: Riku, a storm’s coming!

and


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KINGDOM HEARTS II (2006)
AXEL: Let’s meet again, in the next life.
ROXAS: Yeah. I’ll be waiting.
AXEL: Silly. Just because you have a next life…


DREAM DROP DISTANCE (2012)
LEA: Roxas?


and

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tumblr_miz63cdNsi1rku80no1_500.png


and


 

Audo

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tumblr_mj0f96DNqy1rku80no3_250.gif

tumblr_mj0f96DNqy1rku80no1_500.png


and

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and

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BIRTH BY SLEEP
YEN SID: The boy’s heart is sleeping.


DREAM DROP DISTANCE
MICKEY: Aw, Sora. Don’t tell me your heart’s sleeping, too.



and

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and
 

Audo

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tumblr_miz91xiJUN1rku80no1_250.gif
tumblr_miz91xiJUN1rku80no2_250.gif


and


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and


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CHAIN OF MEMORIES (2004)
RIKU: Sora looks like he hasn’t got a care in the world.


DREAM DROP DISTANCE (2012)
RIKU: Look at his face. Sleeping like nothing’s wrong – like there’s nothing to even worry about. He’s always been like that.




and

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and
 

Antifa Lockhart

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Those little moments are what Nomura and KH do best, and they're my last hope for KH3's story.
 

BlackOsprey

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No, don't stop, Audo. You're someone who's pointing out everything they love about DDD, within a thread about why DDD was bad, and that thread was created by a fandom that seems to hate DDD as a whole. It's amazing.

Or maybe a separate thread should be created just for this?
 

Audo

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Those little moments are what Nomura and KH do best, and they're my last hope for KH3's story.
Seriously. All those moments in KH3D renewed my hope in the series when I thought it might be lost forever. They actually make me believe that KH3 might not be a total trainwreck lol.

No, don't stop, Audo. You're someone who's pointing out everything they love about DDD, within a thread about why DDD was bad, and that thread was created by a fandom that seems to hate DDD as a whole. It's amazing.
lol well someone's gotta do it.

#championddd2k15
 
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Launchpad

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DDD to me, teeters on being good/bad more than any other KH. Usually, there's the games I enjoy (KH1, KH2) and the games I don't (BBS, Days) but DDD rides a gentle line. I love the world designs, and character moments, but I don't like the non-staggering bosses and emptiness of the worlds. Flowmotion is a good concept, but the command menu is so unbalanced that I feel that there's no REAL way to be good at the game. I didn't like YMX's fight, but I did enjoy Ansem/Xemnas.
 

Sephiroth0812

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No, don't stop, Audo. You're someone who's pointing out everything they love about DDD, within a thread about why DDD was bad, and that thread was created by a fandom that seems to hate DDD as a whole. It's amazing.

Or maybe a separate thread should be created just for this?

Saying that the whole fandom hates DDD goes a bit over the top I'd say, there's also no denying that in terms of character interactions, connections and parallels/shoutouts to the whole series DDD does an 1A job as shown with all the examples Audo gave us.
In fact, DDD does with the small direct focus-scenes on characters what titles like BBS should have done, but it's also no stretch to say that the overaching backstory and main setup for KH III was made needlessly complicated and over the top by DDD, especially when counting the whole time-travel mumbo-jumbo, delegating both KH 1 and 2 as well as BBS as some side plans/experiments made by Xehanort which he does not care about much when they're foiled, the whole 13 Xehanorts and alternate X-blade-forging stuff it can be offputting for some people.

All these neat little character moments show that there is some talent for decent writing existing, but it needs to expand also to the greater narrative to become unanimously good.
 

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Audo, to your posts: 素晴らしいです (google translater :p)

It's awesome, thank you for pointing out the ups of a game that is "meant" to connect people that played/viewed the storys with a carefull eye, seeing the bad and good in the story, on the characters, and all the connections with all the characters. :)



 

Mr. Megaverse

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Might as well throw my 2 cents in on this. The time travel stuff wasn't needed. There were other ways, which I have stated on this site before, that you could have gotten 13 Xehanorts without the need for time travel. Either 1.) A Reverse Namine Situation where Terra-Xehanort's body could have split during the recompilation process to form vessels for Xemnas, Ansem SOD, Master Xehanort, and Terra to all become whole beings. Just like how Sora's body split into 2 nobodies, Roxas & Namine. (2.) Use the Birth by Sleep method they're planning to use to bring Roxas and the others back in KH3 and say that Master Xehanort, Xemnas, and Ansem SOD were researching that stuff too.

The other problem is with the whole being recompilation process. YES, we all know that if the heartless is destroyed before the nobody, then upon the nobody's destruction the whole being is reformed. We all know this. The confusion a lot of us have and the problem we have with this is: Why can the body of a nobody survive things that would KILL a whole being and what is the DETAILS as to why the heart and nobody reunite upon the nobody's destruction?

Why is it that Axel can practically incinerate Vexen yet Vexen's body somehow survived in order to return to his heart? If a whole being like Shan-Yu for example was incinerated then he'd dead. What makes the body of a nobody so special that it can survive stuff like that?

Why does the nobody return to it's heart upon it's destruction? What is the force that causes this reunion to occur? Where does the recompilation occur? With the creation of a nobody it's pretty simple because the body and soul never suffer a fatal injury that would lead the body to die. As for why the body and soul vanish from the realm of light and end up in the realm in-between, we can logically assume that because it's heart, which contained it's own individual light and darkness, had been removed then the nobody is no longer tied to the realm of light or darkness or more accurately are rejected by the light and dark realms and so end up in the realm in-between. But there is none of this type of detail or explanation for the whole being reformation process and we need these details. Otherwise the explanation is: A nobody and a heartless return to being whole...just because.
 

Audo

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what is the DETAILS as to why the heart and nobody reunite upon the nobody's destruction?
What do you mean? When the heart is freed it naturally goes back to where it belongs (the body). So if the body is freed, then they reunite. If the body is in the form of a Nobody, this keeps the heart and body from reuniting.

Why is it that Axel can practically incinerate Vexen yet Vexen's body somehow survived in order to return to his heart? If a whole being like Shan-Yu for example was incinerated then he'd dead. What makes the body of a nobody so special that it can survive stuff like that?
Magic. I mean we're talking about a game where someone can be split in two and both halves can still be considered alive. I worry you're expecting too much realism out of a magical game lol.

Why does the nobody return to it's heart upon it's destruction? What is the force that causes this reunion to occur? Where does the recompilation occur?
Because they are naturally meant to be together and so at every opportunity are trying to reunite? Like is it such a shock, lol. A Nobody starts forming its own heart because the heart and body being together is that essential.

we need these details.
I really don't think we do.

Otherwise the explanation is: A nobody and a heartless return to being whole...just because.
It's a fantasy world with rules. You basically just accept the rules or you don't, lol.
 
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