Did Xehanort get off too lightly?

[Launchpad]

For my own personal reasons, I would've liked if everyone he hurt got a final send off. Whether it was words of spite or they somehow found a way to forgive him I dunno.

We get Eraqus looking at them like "They are the future" but Xehanort is still in fight mode and doesn't even seem to acknowledge them now that Eraqus is there. Eraqus gives him a flashback no jutsu and he finally backs down. Not because he's cornered and all the people he's heaped trauma onto is standing around him, but because his bestie past and present asked him to.

I dunno if I was looking for punishment because we did whoop his butt multiple times on repeat for years at this point. But it just feels like the people other than Sora didn't get to say "Good riddance" or got any kind of apology or anything. And everyone appears to be a-ok with that.

I mean, I guess that's just how it is in fiction sometimes, isn't it? Not every creator likes to spend time delving into how a character can come to forgive or forget the wrongs done to them by someone else (For example, as much as I like the idea of Kairi and Axel becoming friends, all her misgivings were quickly swept under a rug a bit unfairly imo)

Despite all the trauma and hardships these characters have gone through, I feel like at the end of the day, the message is, "Don't hold onto hatred whether it's justified or not. Give everyone a second chance even if you have to beat them up a few times first."

That is just the philosophy of the series I think.

For the most part, even if in smaller moments, practically every character that had beef with Xehanort got some form of finality. Aqua and Ven were the trigger that expunged him from Terra's body, Riku was satisfied with Ansem's final words, and Kairi at least got to square up against him... twice. Terra perhaps deserved another go at Xehanort, but fighting, revenge, and a lust for 'victory' is one of the things that lead Terra to ruin, so capping off his journey with a revenge beatdown was something they were wise enough to avoid.

 

[Chie]

And Axel had his moment of standing up to Xemnas.

I definitely like portraying Xehanort as willingly giving up after having lost. One of the most interesting things about Xehanort to me is that the lives he's ruined includes his own. He trapped himself into having to be part of this giant shitty time travel plan from a young age, a causal loop that ensures that he will never exist outside of it. The end of KH3 is the end of that loop. He knows that, and he's already used the many second chances he set up within that loop. And having watched Dark Road now, we can also see how this reflects the belief put onto him from birth that he's a destined hero who will save the world and nobody else possibly can. And Sora beats him up and tells him off for it, and there's nothing else he can really do after that.

 

[kirabook]

Another beat down is not what I was looking for. As I said, we beat him up enough already and it's clear he couldn't fight anymore.

I wanted words and glances to be exchanged. Even if it all resulted in the same way and Xehanort willingly gave up his x-blade and flew away with Eraqus, I feel like I'm missing some final words exchanged. Or any acknowledgement of the people around him. We got some closure with Eraqus looking at the next generation, hugging TAV, and personally apologizing to each other them even though he didn't screw up nearly as bad as Xehanort did.

All we get from Xehanort is him smiling at Eraqus, telling Sora he did a good job, looking sulky in a corner, and then floating away.

Maybe it would've been too cheesy if some of the others, notably Riku, Aqua, Ven, and Terra all got their last word in about his actions. Or a direct apology to all of them is too fast of a turn around maybe. ".... I was wrong. I ... apologize."

Too cheesy? Maybe.

 

[SweetYetSalty]

I just wanted a “death” like the one Ansem got in 1, Marluxia got in CoM and Xemnas in 2.

Which boils it down to moaning/groaning in pain while flailing arms as cool effects flutter around, dissipating into nothing.

Extra bonus points if they had him reaching towards Kingdom Hearts, or have it reflected in his eyes as it all fades away.
Just another tool of destiny.

That's the death I wanted Saix/Isa to get going into KH3. Just let him die the jealous, irredeemable, manchild of a villain the games had portrayed him until this point. I miss hating him. Not only did I not get it but he got off way easier then Xehanort did. And frankly so did many of the other Org members with this whole recompletion thing. It seems Nomura doesn't want to commit to making villains just be villains. I think this is why a character like Vanitas sticks out more and more in replaying the series but even then I don't know how long it'll last. For as much of a joke as she is Maleficent feels like the only truly evil character left in the series. And that's because she's owned by Disney. If she was a KH original she'd have done her face turn already.

Did Xehanort get off easy? I guess to some degree. But when I see moments like TAV hugging Eraqus with Xehanort watching in the corner like a loser I feel that is a bigger blow than anything he received in a Keyblade fight. His life and legacy will not be looked at fondly and nobody will honor his memory like they did Eraqus. All his victims are back and get to live their life while he died old and hated. It's not like TAV smiled endearingly at the man who ruined their lives and pretend it didn't happen or has memory issues to excuse how evil he previously was...not yet anyway.

 

[Phoenix]

For what it's worth, the way Xehanort died definitely left a bad taste in my mouth. I don't particularly want him to die in pain or anything, but he gets a more peaceful send-off than Ansem SoD in 1, Marluxia in CoM, Xemnas in 2, Vanitas in BBS, etc. People that he's manipulated get sadder ends than he does.

 

[Ðari]

Part of me wants to believe the writing for MX's departure was a product of the time. His send off was softer than...well, quite literally every variation of him in previous titles. Kairi's death, was more traumatizing and dramatic (probably one of the best moments in the final chapter imo) that genuinely threw the audience (kairi fans i mean) into a frenzy.

MX: Disappeared into the light with Eraqus, hate doing y'all like this.

 

[Raz]

I think he should have exploded in an array of sparkling lights while screaming in agony, like any other decent villain in the series.

 

[Dandelion]

There's no finality in the sparkly light show death. Everyone who's done that has come back to life.

(Granted, we've seen Xehanort again and likely will again, but not as a reformed and living character)

 

[Squood!]

I'm personally fine with how he got sent off.

He didn't need a bombastic death scene, he didn't need basically everybody calling him out or kicking him while he's down.

He was beaten, Sora called him out, and Eraqus told him that it was over.

And anyone who thinks he was redeemed or forgiven just because he wasn't torn to pieces by OOC characters should really re-watch the scene.

 

[Absent]

I think Eraqus should’ve given him the chair.

 

[Deleted member]

Sometimes the vibe I get is that people are mad that Xehanort's Character Ending had the gall to primarily be about Xehanort's character.

 

[Squood!]

I love how most of the negative reception to Xehanort's end in KH3 that I've seen in places primarily involve people wishing every character there went OOC and tore the man to shreds screaming at him about how horrible he is before using his severed body parts to build a house

 

[Phoenix]

Eh, I'm not a fan of his ending. Too much of a karma houdini to me.

To me, good examples of deaths were Ansem SoD and Xemnas. The deaths aren't about their character motivations being resolved happily. They die incomplete, failing. On the other hand, a villain death where the guy does with a smile on his face I really liked was Vanitas in KH3. I feel that that was reconciliation done right between the two sides (Ventus and Vanitas). Not in the way that Ventus forgives him and the Vanitas ascends, but in that Vanitas wants to die the way he is and Ventus accepts that.

Xehanort's death is too... clean for me. In the sense that the story resolves most of the things it needs to resolve do that he can pass peacefully.

This isn't just a Xehanort thing though, I think too many of the deaths post KH2 are too clean. Roxas' and Axel's deaths in 2 were dirty. Roxas dies upset and hurt over what he's losing, even if he's able to take some comfort in Sora's resurrection. Axel does a glorious death, but never got to see Roxas. And Xion! That was tragic.

When deaths are too clean and people get to monologue their last will and testament, you lose a lot of the tragedy of death.

 

[olu]

Yeah - they shoulda punched him in the mouth, kicked him in the groin, pushed him down the stair and stole his MIcrosoft Dinosaur CD.

 

[Deleted member]

Eh, I'm not a fan of his ending. Too much of a karma houdini to me.

To me, good examples of deaths were Ansem SoD and Xemnas. The deaths aren't about their character motivations being resolved happily. They die incomplete, failing. On the other hand, a villain death where the guy does with a smile on his face I really liked was Vanitas in KH3. I feel that that was reconciliation done right between the two sides (Ventus and Vanitas). Not in the way that Ventus forgives him and the Vanitas ascends, but in that Vanitas wants to die the way he is and Ventus accepts that.

Xehanort's death is too... clean for me. In the sense that the story resolves most of the things it needs to resolve do that he can pass peacefully.

This isn't just a Xehanort thing though, I think too many of the deaths post KH2 are too clean. Roxas' and Axel's deaths in 2 were dirty. Roxas dies upset and hurt over what he's losing, even if he's able to take some comfort in Sora's resurrection. Axel does a glorious death, but never got to see Roxas. And Xion! That was tragic.

When deaths are too clean and people get to monologue their last will and testament, you lose a lot of the tragedy of death.

Kinda reads like you're just not really a fan of any approach to death that isn't ultimately tragic or sad (and stays that way)?

But even the KH2 examples you list are like immediately undercut in their own games? Axel dies never getting to see Roxas... only to then have a post-death conversation with Roxas where they both express hope that they have hearts and can be brought back. Xion gets to do a big monologue about her motivations, how she feels about Xemnas, how she feels about all her friends, etc and then dies with a smile... only to then to also get big hope swelling lines to Roxas post-death where she tells him not to be sad because she'll actually live on in Sora forever or whatever.

The series has always mixed tragic and hope. Bittersweet.
"There's always a light in the darkness" extends to the way the series handles death, too.

Maybe it's just personal tastes or interpretations, but I don't really think Xehanort's death is really resolved happily just because he's glad he isn't literally dying alone in his final moments after a lifetime of needlessly living completely alone and unloved with his life's only purpose failing? I think that's just the typical KH bittersweet grace note moment for him that every character gets in some way.



Man, idk. I think that flashback scene in his ending is like so sad. Also always really liked:

 

[Phoenix]

Kinda reads like you're just not really a fan of any approach to death that isn't ultimately tragic or sad (and stays that way)?

But even the KH2 examples you list are like immediately undercut in their own games? Axel dies never getting to see Roxas... only to then have a post-death conversation with Roxas where they both express hope that they have hearts and can be brought back. Xion gets to do a big monologue about her motivations, how she feels about Xemnas, how she feels about all her friends, etc and then dies with a smile... only to then to also get big hope swelling lines to Roxas post-death where she tells him not to be sad because she'll actually live on in Sora forever or whatever.

The series has always mixed tragic and hope. Bittersweet.
"There's always a light in the darkness" extends to the way the series handles death, too.

Maybe it's just personal tastes or interpretations, but I don't really think Xehanort's death is really resolved happily just because he's glad he isn't literally dying alone in his final moments after a lifetime of needlessly living completely alone and unloved with his life's only purpose failing? I think that's just the typical KH bittersweet grace note moment for him that every character gets in some way.



Man, idk. I think that flashback scene in his ending is like so sad. Also always really liked:

View attachment 16537 View attachment 16538

I mean, death tends to be sad. It's the nature of the subject. But no, I just don't think ascending into light after admitting defeat works for Xehanort. At least, it didn't work for me on an emotional level.

Regarding Axel and the rest, sure, nothing's perfect. But on the whole, Roxas' death was sad and poignant, Xion was heartbreaking, etc. Those deaths worked for me. As did Ansem SoD's in KH1, Xemnas' in KH2.

Yes, Xehanort's realisation is sad. But we're not talking about Ansem the Wise here, a flawed man who did bad things but ultimately was doing his best. Xehanort stabbed a young girl in the back, killed her, and smiled evilly while doing so. He manipulated a bunch of children into killing their own master (his best friend), and had them fight amongst themselves. He possessed one of them and stole his body so he could be young again. Like, he's done do much vile stuff. I don't know what kind of death he "deserves". All I can say is that the death we got wasn't very satisfying for me.

 

[olu]

Yeah, honestly, I agree with Phoenix. For all the crimes and cruelties he committed against so many people, I feel like happily going into the light with his best friend by his side wasn’t a very just ending for him.

At the same time, Sora brutally striking him down like he did to Eraqus in BBS would’ve been rather uncharacteristic.

And death alone in KH feels rather…inconsequential? There’s always this high chance you’ll be brought back to life. Kairi was able to do so when Sora collected all her Lego pieces. And even when Sora was erased from existence for breaking the rules of his reality ended up persisting elsewhere. So realistically, what Xehanort deserves is a fate worse than death. But I don’t think such a thing exists in this series.

I see Kingdom Hearts as a series that often derives its emotional weight from the ongoing themes of loss, sacrifice and redemption — rather than the finality or the results of previous events. And a series of this nature would have a very difficult time giving a big bad like Xehanort a just sentence for his actions. Or maybe the circumstances behind his demise was were mild because the narrative was that he believed that HE was the child of destiny and what HE was doing was ultimately for the greater good.

 

[1millionsquats]

Xehanort stabbed a young girl in the back, killed her, and smiled evilly while doing so. He manipulated a bunch of children into killing their own master (his best friend), and had them fight amongst themselves. He possessed one of them and stole his body so he could be young again. Like, he's done do much vile stuff.

Absolutely. Nomura pulled the whole "I was actually a misguided good guy all along!" thing out of his ass and it truly underplays all of Xehanort's actions. Ever since he was first introduced he was portrayed as cunning and manipulative, like he truly enjoyed seeing his misdeeds play out.

I like that he seemed reluctant to accept defeat, but his best friend showing up to snuggle and kiss before beautifully ascending to heaven in a flash of light was not fitting for the type of antagonist he was built up to be. It should've been all bitter, no sweet. And I don't mean Sora should have mercilessly destroyed him, but perhaps Xehanort wouldn't have been so happy (and almost proud?) to have his multi-lifetime plan ultimately foiled. I think he should have been frustrated, disappointed, and regretful that all of the terrible things he did, and the monster he had become, was for nothing.

 

[Squood!]

Absolutely. Nomura pulled the whole "I was actually a misguided good guy all along!" thing out of his ass and it truly underplays all of Xehanort's actions. Ever since he was first introduced he was portrayed as cunning and manipulative, like he truly enjoyed seeing his misdeeds play out.

I like that he seemed reluctant to accept defeat, but his best friend showing up to snuggle and kiss before beautifully ascending to heaven in a flash of light was not fitting for the type of antagonist he was built up to be. It should've been all bitter, no sweet. And I don't mean Sora should have mercilessly destroyed him, but perhaps Xehanort wouldn't have been so happy (and almost proud?) to have his multi-lifetime plan ultimately foiled. I think he should have been frustrated, disappointed, and regretful that all of the terrible things he did, and the monster he had become, was for nothing.

HE WASN'T A """MISGUIDED GOOD GUY"""

He was basically spouting the shit most japanese villains go on about. "Strong over the weak to keep the weak from doing thing" blah blah blah, the same shit someone like Senator Armstrong yelled about.

 

[1millionsquats]

It's an asspull, even if you don't consider him a misguided good guy (which seems to be the intent, see Dark Road). Going from "darkness is actually the best" to "I just wanted balance :/" is a huge leap.