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Darknesses and Lights



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Hillboy

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Thank you sir!
Well,I gave it a lot of thought,Kairi's gonna kick ass (at least i think so :/),but the issue is the fact that she's a princess of heart,seven lights are supposed to protect the princesses of hearts,my only explanation of her having the training is to save Aqua because as a princess of hearts,darkness doesn't affect her which is why she was able to get into the dark portals without getting affected.

She could protect herself, just saying
 

urca

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She could protect herself, just saying
I know,she did it in KH2 when she fought against the heartless,she's getting more training now,but i really can't think of it in anyway other than to save Aqua,the only other way they could save Aqua is by sending Lea because he wears the organization coat that can protect one from darkness consuming the heart,which is bad storytelling if you ask me.
 

Nayru's Love

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While Kairi is a Princess of Heart, that doesn't make her immune to getting her ass handed to her by a bunch of Heartless. If anything, I can imagine Aqua will leave the RoD through the Door to Light.
 

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While Kairi is a Princess of Heart, that doesn't make her immune to getting her ass handed to her by a bunch of Heartless. If anything, I can imagine Aqua will leave the RoD through the Door to Light.

That would kill the purpose of her waiting for Sora to save her.
I swear i would LMFAO if somehow Sora went to RoD to save her and then he doesn't find her,only for him to return and find her at the Mystery tower,that would be a big waste of gameplay hours xD.
 

Hillboy

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That would kill the purpose of her waiting for Sora to save her.
I swear i would LMFAO if somehow Sora went to RoD to save her and then he doesn't find her,only for him to return and find her at the Mystery tower,that would be a big waste of gameplay hours xD.

We don't even know if Sora's going to go save her. For all we know she could be chillin' in the RoL
 

Nayru's Love

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That would kill the purpose of her waiting for Sora to save her.
I swear i would LMFAO if somehow Sora went to RoD to save her and then he doesn't find her,only for him to return and find her at the Mystery tower,that would be a big waste of gameplay hours xD.

Based on AtW's research on hearts and thoughts, it's seems probable that a DtL takes at least two people to summon.
 

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Based on AtW's research on hearts and thoughts, it's seems probable that a DtL takes at least two people to summon.

That would explain the kh2 opening, but i thought that was nore kairi's doing
 

Nayru's Love

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That would explain the kh2 opening, but i thought that was nore kairi's doing

You could say that, honestly. Tying into Yen Sid's talk about "being the light that guides you back home," Kairi could have acted as that light and brought Sora and Riku back to their home world.
 

Sephiroth0812

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I was thinking the same thing. Just to be clear, you're saying Vanitas was not one of the 12 members present in 3D, but may eventually become the 13th member (taking Sora's spot) when Ven's heart awakens, correct?

Yes, that's what I am implying in this theory/possibility based on the facts that Nomura choose one of his answers in the Ultimania to point out that Vanitas is different from Xemnas and Ansem SoD and has not (yet possibly) a physical form unlike them.
That could lead to him not being one of the 13 right now but in the near future, although that still doesn't bring us any closer to guess the six remaining darknesses.
I think so far as "confirmed" can be counted:
1. Master Xehanort
2. Young Xehanort
3. Xemnas
4. Ansem SoD
5. Xigbar/Braig
6. Saix/Isa

leaving us with seven seats to fill, regardless if Vanitas will be eventually the 13th or already fills in one of the seats 7 to 12, I think the chances are high that he will be one of the 13 in the end as he exhibits the golden "Xehanort-seed"-eyes and was practically alone with MX for four freakin' years.
The main issue remain the six other seats to be filled.
According to what Xemnas explained in-game I would assume we can rule out Demyx and/or his original persona (too weak and unsuited), and surely also Marluxia and Larxene (they fit into the Traitor-category just as Axel and Roxas do according to Xemnas).
Luxord now is an interesting case. The few tidbits we learned about him painted him in a rather laid-back attitude and loyal, but also sophisticated and with a certain power-level. Judging by all we came to know about him, I would count him as a candidate for one of the 13, albeit more on the same boat as Isa as Braig, Young MX, Ansem SoD and Xemnas seem to be the only ones who really "willingly" go along with MX.
That would make 8 then:

7. Luxord/???(his original persona)?
8. Vanitas (high possibility)

That still leaves us with four unknown darknesses.
One I could surely imagine (at least until the real final battle starts) is Terra, or rather Terra-Xehanort.

9. Terra-Xehanort.

The truly difficult ones would be the last three, as Dilan, Even, Ienzo and Aeleus got correctly reborn together with Lea so I doubt they are part of the 13.

This is my first post here,hope i'll make lotsa friends here.
My list of the seven lights is infamous,hopefully i don't get a lot of rage/flaming:
1-Sora (Obviously)
2-Riku (Obviously)
3-Ven (Strong keyblade master with a heart of light)
4-Aqua (Keyblade Master and a warrior of light)
5-Mickey (Obviously)
6-Roxas/Lea (Roxas is a big-time candidate of the seven lights but when i reread his past,he's not that much of a candidate,he referred to himself once as someone from the dark,that's not a good one if you ask me,Lea's a good candidate too,he still needs to train more,that's for sure.)
7-Xion (Yes,I know,not that plausible but hear me out,Xion's death,and Xion's character in general is complicated,she's a replica but Larxene has referred to replicas as they have hearts,at her death,while she was crystalizing,her body turned into lightwave and light particles and faded away,that's a big hint that she has a heart full of light,if anything,that raises her chances of being a candidate,i'm not saying it'll happen,that's just my prediction,take it as it is)

Hello and welcome to the depths of the mess that is the KH-section, lol.
Be sure to stay afloat. ;)
Any "list" of the seven is speculation right now anyways, so no one can claim to have the "correct" list yet. It's typical for Nomura to give us something like this and he's probably out there and (laughs) at all the wild mass guessing going on. You're the first one I see who included Xion in the roster though, lol.

---

Speaking of it, I have not spilled out my take on the whole stuff yet despite having thought about it often (probably because I was so busy the last month).

So here we go (Warning for monster post with color-coded names, lol):

Possible 7-Light constellations:

Candidates (color code):

1. Terra (brown)
2. Lea (red)
3. Ventus (green)
4. Xion (gray)
5. Roxas (gold)
6. Riku (dark green)
7. Sora (blue)
8. Aqua (light blue)
9. Kairi (pink)
10. Mickey (light orange)

10 candidates for seven spots.

Set Characters:
Sora, Riku, Mickey, Aqua and Ventus.

Variable Characters:

Terra => due to no ensurance that he can be snatched away from the 13 before the final showdown. Maybe he is the last one to be saved and the 13 darknesses have to be disrupted beforehand. I personally doubt that he will be still on the enemies' side in the very final showdown, but in the climax battle beforehand there might be a substitute needed.

Lea => A Keyblade doesn't mean a automatically a light of the X-blade, and Nomura indicates in the Ultimania he gave Lea mainly a Keyblade in order to give him the power to bring back the people he wants, namely Isa, Roxas and Xion, the people most important to him.
That of course doesn't rule him out as a light so he has to be included.

Kairi => was summoned by Yen Sid because she can wield a Keyblade. Since she's also one of the seven pure lights which function as the very foundation of the current universe she's for sure targeted by Xehanort to be destroyed or to be used to re-open the Door to Darkness. So putting her on the front lines directly is probably a bad idea => doesn't neccessarily makes her directly also a light of the X-blade. Still, her
receiving Keyblade-training can come as a nasty surprise for Xehanort when she's able to thwart attempts on getting her and protect the other princesses in turn as well. Kairi nonetheless has to be counted as a candidate anyways as Nomura specifically included her in the list and the secret ending made a point by Mickey talking about the missing protector just as Riku brought her in.

Roxas => was shown independently from Sora and Ventus in the opening (just like in the group shot in-game when Sora causes Xigbar to freak out), hinting that his greatest wish of becoming a person on his own might get fulfilled.
The explanations of Ansem the Wise, the probability of him having developed a heart, Lea's promise to "bring them back" (this can double for both Roxas & Xion) and Sora himself wanting for Roxas to exist by himself give further hints into that direction. Furthermore, Roxas, being originally created from two lights (Sora & Ventus) might have become one himself by development.
Nonetheless, all this is still theory and it has furthermore to be pointed out that Roxas can become an independent entity again and even help out in the final battle, just like Donald and Goofy, without having to be one of the seven lights of the X-blade!

Xion => The oddball, never shown either in the secret ending nor in the opening, but might still have similar pros and cons like Roxas, with the exception
of her not being "born" directly from Sora and Ventus like he is, which may put her chance a level below Roxas, but she nonetheless can also be,
just like Roxas, Donald and Goofy, an allied fighter without having to be a light of the X-blade.

Likely combinations:

I:

1. Sora
2. Riku
3. Mickey
4. Terra
5. Ventus
6. Aqua
7. Roxas
(DDD Opening roster)

II:

1. Sora
2. Riku
3. Kairi
4. Mickey
5. Terra
6. Ventus
7. Aqua
(DDD Secret ending roster)

III:

1. Sora
2. Riku
3. Kairi
4. Mickey
5. Lea
6. Ventus
7. Aqua
(DDD Secret ending roster Alternative A: Lea substitutes for Terra as he's with the 13)

IV:

1. Sora
2. Riku
3. Kairi
4. Mickey
5. Ventus
6. Aqua
7. Roxas
(DDD Secret ending roster Altenative B: Kairi substitutes for Terra as he's with the 13)

V:

1. Sora
2. Riku
3. Mickey
4. Terra
5. Ventus
6. Aqua
7. Lea
(DDD Opening roster Alternative A: Lea replaces Roxas)

VI:

1. Sora
2. Riku
3. Mickey
4. Lea
5. Ventus
6. Aqua
7. Roxas
(DDD Opening roster Alternative B: Lea replaces/substitutes for Terra)

This is already a monster post so I didn't include the "Xion"-options but it isn't that complicated, as Xion could also serve as a substitute for Terra or
replace Roxas from the Opening roster just like Kairi and Lea can.

As another information, I personally think it is perfectly possible that the seven lights do not stay the same all throughout KH III but that there may several
of these combinations temporarily active.

Speaking of this, another scenario I can imagine is that the BBS-Trio might be saved last out of all due to forced circumstances like the 13 Darknesses attacking the worlds and the Princesses, leaving Sora, Riku and Mickey no time to leave the RoL to search for Aqua and Ventus therefore can't be reawakened (we also don't know if his heart is already fully healed). Terra is apparently on Xehanort's team so if the BBS-crew is only rescued/restored in the second half/last third of KH III, we might need three temporary substitutes for the first half of the game who later serve as normal allies when TAV take their rightful places as X-blade lights.

That would be this:

VII.

1. Sora
2. Riku
3. Kairi
4. Mickey
5. Xion (serves as temporary substitute for Aqua)
6. Lea (serves as temporary substitute for Terra)
7. Roxas (serves as temporary substitute for Ventus)


As for my personal preference on what the final roster one shall be, well, while I can accept them all as long as the non-light-characters get their fair share of
ass-kicking as well I would prefer either combination I. (regular Opening one), II. (Regular secret ending) or IV. if saving Terra can only be done after the
climax clash.




Well enjoy your stay, if you have any questions feel free to leave me a visitor message.
(back on topic)
Your list is missing Kairi, I doubt they'd give her a keyblade in KH3D and have her not use it

You don't have to be a light of the X-blade (one of the seven lights) in order to kick ass or otherwise use your Keyblade.
We have more Keybladers than spots to fill anyways (see above). ;)

Well, if the Unversed just start randomly popping up in KH3, we'll know that a certain someone is apart of the 13 Darknesses...
Being the troll he is I could also imagine Nomura not showing the Unversed at all in order to keep the involvement of Vanitas uncertain just for the lulz.
 

urca

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We don't even know if Sora's going to go save her. For all we know she could be chillin' in the RoL

I see,that's why she didn't cry when she heard Sora's name and Re:Coded's message was just a casual message from Mickey that never included Sora saving those guys.
/sarcasm
I kid you I kid you :D

Hello and welcome to the depths of the mess that is the KH-section, lol.
Be sure to stay afloat. ;)
Any "list" of the seven is speculation right now anyways, so no one can claim to have the "correct" list yet. It's typical for Nomura to give us something like this and he's probably out there and (laughs) at all the wild mass guessing going on. You're the first one I see who included Xion in the roster though, lol.
Thanks for having me :3.
I know,it's hard to believe,part of it was her death(Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days Cutscene (English Subbed): Xion's Death - YouTube at 02:24) which ticked this whole idea,last guy who had the same 'death' was Sora himself,when he turned into a heartless,iirc no Nobody had the same death as Xion (including Axel,who sacrificed himself to destroy the dusks),in particular,none of the Nobodies faded into light (can't make an exception for Roxas,since he didn't receive a death,as much as he returned to Sora willingly,Xion had to die in order to Sora regaining his memories),so if anything,that's like sticking a rocket up her chances of being a candidate's ass and pushing it to the moon.
Well,it is what it is,a speculation,but I gotta say we need 1 more game before KH3 if we want any new information,and thankfully,there's a game coming soon,but I hope it'd live up to my expectations.
I actually like your analysis,if that happened,Nomura would be the one who found a way to satisfy EVERYONE,literally,what i really hope would happen is everyone taking a chance to kick some major ass,if i'd pair up the fights,it would go a little something like this
AV,SRK,XAR vs Terranort
Aqua and Kairi vs Xigbar
Ventus vs Vanitas
Roxas,Xion and Axel vs Xemnas,Saix and Young Xehanort
Terra vs Xehanort round two would be awesome,not that i think it'd happen again :/
Of course,we know there will be more,so there'll be more room for fights,which i think i'll really enjoy.


Based on AtW's research on hearts and thoughts, it's seems probable that a DtL takes at least two people to summon.
I believe DtL doesn't need two people as much as it only needs one with a strong light,but it makes sense,it really needs some replaying or even re-reading the story in order to analyze this :/
 

JustSnilloc

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I'm thinking NeoTerranort (the one from the present) is guaranteed to be part of the XIII Darknesses, and therefore cannot be in any incarnation of the 7 Lights, so that narrows down the field a bit.

Also, Kairi being one of the Princesses makes me doubt her being one of the Guardians of Light, so I doubt she will be on there

And finally, (I know this will get some hate, but...) I doubt Sora will be one of the lights... Why? A little bit of everything really:
- Sora by himself isn't a very competent Keyblade Wielder
- Sora failed his MoM pretty badly
- Sora doesn't have any resistance to darkness at all
- Outside the keyblade, Sora has no real combat worth
- Sora is just a "Normal Boy" who happens to be capable of weilding the keyblade
- It'd be too predictable, and knowing Nomura...

Here's what I think will happen, all the hearts confined within Sora will be extracted somehow and returned to their rightful places and others will become their own beings *coughroxasandxioncough* and Sora will be unconscious due to trauma caused by the incident and like Xehanort said "when the time comes, the lights will be chosen"

The lights that will be chosen will be thus:

1. Mickey (light orange)
2. Riku (dark green)
3. Aqua (light blue)
4. Ventus (green)
5. Lea (red)
6. Roxas (gold)
7. Xion (gray)

Now, the War will begin and all will be going according to Xehanort's plan, but Sora will end up showing up messing up Xehanort's plans once and for all... Something like that
 

MasterZeR0

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I'm thinking NeoTerranort (the one from the present) is guaranteed to be part of the XIII Darknesses, and therefore cannot be in any incarnation of the 7 Lights, so that narrows down the field a bit.

Also, Kairi being one of the Princesses makes me doubt her being one of the Guardians of Light, so I doubt she will be on there

And finally, (I know this will get some hate, but...) I doubt Sora will be one of the lights... Why? A little bit of everything really:
- Sora by himself isn't a very competent Keyblade Wielder
- Sora failed his MoM pretty badly
- Sora doesn't have any resistance to darkness at all
- Outside the keyblade, Sora has no real combat worth
- Sora is just a "Normal Boy" who happens to be capable of weilding the keyblade
- It'd be too predictable, and knowing Nomura...

Here's what I think will happen, all the hearts confined within Sora will be extracted somehow and returned to their rightful places and others will become their own beings *coughroxasandxioncough* and Sora will be unconscious due to trauma caused by the incident and like Xehanort said "when the time comes, the lights will be chosen"

The lights that will be chosen will be thus:

1. Mickey (light orange)
2. Riku (dark green)
3. Aqua (light blue)
4. Ventus (green)
5. Lea (red)
6. Roxas (gold)
7. Xion (gray)

Now, the War will begin and all will be going according to Xehanort's plan, but Sora will end up showing up messing up Xehanort's plans once and for all... Something like that

I can see exactly this happening. Specifically your list of the lights.
 

Sorax 122

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I'm thinking NeoTerranort (the one from the present) is guaranteed to be part of the XIII Darknesses, and therefore cannot be in any incarnation of the 7 Lights, so that narrows down the field a bit.

Also, Kairi being one of the Princesses makes me doubt her being one of the Guardians of Light, so I doubt she will be on there

And finally, (I know this will get some hate, but...) I doubt Sora will be one of the lights... Why? A little bit of everything really:
- Sora by himself isn't a very competent Keyblade Wielder
- Sora failed his MoM pretty badly
- Sora doesn't have any resistance to darkness at all
- Outside the keyblade, Sora has no real combat worth
- Sora is just a "Normal Boy" who happens to be capable of weilding the keyblade
- It'd be too predictable, and knowing Nomura...

Here's what I think will happen, all the hearts confined within Sora will be extracted somehow and returned to their rightful places and others will become their own beings *coughroxasandxioncough* and Sora will be unconscious due to trauma caused by the incident and like Xehanort said "when the time comes, the lights will be chosen"

The lights that will be chosen will be thus:

1. Mickey (light orange)
2. Riku (dark green)
3. Aqua (light blue)
4. Ventus (green)
5. Lea (red)
6. Roxas (gold)
7. Xion (gray)

Now, the War will begin and all will be going according to Xehanort's plan, but Sora will end up showing up messing up Xehanort's plans once and for all... Something like that

I don't think Sora is that incompetent as a Keyblade wielder. Maybe you're underestimating him a little bit. He can fight well I think, sure not as well as riku but well enough.
 

JustSnilloc

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I don't think Sora is that incompetent as a Keyblade wielder. Maybe you're underestimating him a little bit. He can fight well I think, sure not as well as riku but well enough.

When you take it all into consideration, -by himself- he's not a very competent Keyblade wielder... Plus if the scenerio plays out like I explained, he wouldn't be one of the lights that get chosen. That doesn't mean he can't fight too though
 

Hillboy

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When you take it all into consideration, -by himself- he's not a very competent Keyblade wielder... Plus if the scenerio plays out like I explained, he wouldn't be one of the lights that get chosen. That doesn't mean he can't fight too though

KH2 did a bad a job at making Sora look incompetent though. He had the most godly combo and could blow DDD Riku away no problem.
While saying this though, that's just gameplay
 

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And finally, (I know this will get some hate, but...) I doubt Sora will be one of the lights... Why? A little bit of everything really:
- Sora by himself isn't a very competent Keyblade Wielder
- Sora failed his MoM pretty badly
- Sora doesn't have any resistance to darkness at all
- Outside the keyblade, Sora has no real combat worth
- Sora is just a "Normal Boy" who happens to be capable of weilding the keyblade
- It'd be too predictable, and knowing Nomura...
1. IDK, he beat the snozz outta Riku/Ansem when they were combined, Xemnas, and Roxas all by himself. I wouldn't say he's incompetent.
2. Sora only failed the MoM because Geezernort and his buddies were messing the hell out of him and interfering all the time.
3. Sora does have resistance to Darkness. He resisted darkness all the time, even calling Riku, "stupid" when he was falling into it. In DDD he only fell to darkness because the Xehanorts doused him in it and had already weakened his heart. When Sora's at his normal, strong-hearted, peppy state he's pretty resistant to darkness.
4. That's not true. Even when Sora was fighting with the wooden sword in Hollow Bastion with the Beast he could still use magic. And back on DI he play-fought every single day with the other boys on the island. He at least knows how to fight. Take the Keyblade away from most of the wielders (Ven, Aqua, Terra, etc....) and they would only have magic, too.
5. This is the only point I agree on.
6. Too predictable? Nomura's been predictable in the past. Heck, we basically all figured out before BBS was released and translated that MX would somehow possess Terra and that Ven's heart had something to do with Sora.
I don't mean to be a meanie, but I just think all these claims you made about Sora are a little too harsh.
 

JustSnilloc

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What to you mean by this exactly? As in like he can't stand on his own?

No, he can stand on his own definately. But the majority of his power is from his friends- the connections his heart has made

1. IDK, he beat the snozz outta Riku/Ansem when they were combined, Xemnas, and Roxas all by himself. I wouldn't say he's incompetent.

No, he was using the power of hearts connected to his to do all that... It's what the keyblade allows him to do

2. Sora only failed the MoM because Geezernort and his buddies were messing the hell out of him and interfering all the time.

They were going to do the same to Riku, but Riku was far more prepared

3. Sora does have resistance to Darkness. He resisted darkness all the time, even calling Riku, "stupid" when he was falling into it. In DDD he only fell to darkness because the Xehanorts doused him in it and had already weakened his heart. When Sora's at his normal, strong-hearted, peppy state he's pretty resistant to darkness.

When has he ever shown a resistance to darkness? It's only ever been the power of light that has saved him from darkness... Most of the time (if not every time) it wasn't even his light

4. That's not true. Even when Sora was fighting with the wooden sword in Hollow Bastion with the Beast he could still use magic. And back on DI he play-fought every single day with the other boys on the island. He at least knows how to fight. Take the Keyblade away from most of the wielders (Ven, Aqua, Terra, etc....) and they would only have magic, too.

Not really, most Keyblade wielders are exceptional fighters without a need for the keyblade (specifically)... Roxas could fight just as well with a stick as he could the keyblade... Riku has shown hand to hand combat prowess along with efficiency with other weapons... I'm sure Terra and Aqua are at least on Riku's level, and Ventus probably isn't too far behind... Xion is just as strong as Roxas... The others are an unknown, but seem just as competent

Who would have to rely on magic? (It's Yen Sid's specialty so he would use it anyway)

I don't mean to be a meanie, but I just think all these claims you made about Sora are a little too harsh.

Perhaps they're portrayed in a harsher manner than they should be, but they're true nonetheless.

What makes Sora so special is he seems to be able to freely use the strength of his friends to help him fight- That's what makes Sora awesome, not because he's an exceptional keyblade wielder, but because of his exceptional ability to bond with others and use their strength to help him fight
 

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No, he can stand on his own definately. But the majority of his power is from his friends- the connections his heart has made.

One of the meany philosophies of KH that hearts are connected and that those connections are your power. I myself don't find Sora to be that much of a special case besides gaining the keyblade.

When has he ever shown a resistance to darkness?


Director's Secret Report XIII

There is one more method, the use of the "Dark Corridor". There are those who are on a fallen path, essentially not being on the path they should be. Only those who can be said to have a Dark existence or an In-between existence can make these doorways. On rare occasion those with particularly strong feelings or hatred, such as the case with Beast and DiZ and perhaps others like them can open these paths. However you must be careful when coming into contact with such darkness. As such, if you use these paths too often you will be completely swallowed by darkness. Sora has used these paths several times before, but the degree of frequency hasn't allowed the darkness to stain his heart, so you can think of the influential power of darkness as being dependent upon the strength of the persons heart.

Not really, most Keyblade wielders are exceptional fighters without a need for the keyblade.

It's not that often KEYBLADE WIELDERS fight without their keyblade and even if they do they're still very skilled in combat. It's not the weapon that makes them great fighter it's their skills with the weapon.
 
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