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Darknesses and Lights



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8298906

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I feel like the original 12 darknesses are:

1. Xemnas
2. Ansem
3. Master Xehanort
4. Young Xehanort
5. Xigbar
6. Isa
7. Terra
8. Eraqus
9. Vanitas
10. Apprentice Xehanort
11. Ansem the Wise
12. Reborn Xehanort

I agree with everyone besides the twelfth one. You're list makes the most sense than anyone's


Can you explain #8? Wasn't Eraqus hell-bent on protecting TAV from the darkness and not using it and wanted to stop MX from recreating the Keyblade War and the X-Blade?

You say's all the Xahenorts have to be there cause they want to? Isa/Saix is most likely and involuntary member seeing to the fact in DAYS he was planing to betray Xemnas! Terra probably an involuntary member too but is one of the dew on the most possible list. Besides this is crazy-prepared Master Xahenort he's mostly turn his most dangerous enemies into his forced allies(like he tried to do with Sora). Hell he's also probably bringing Xehanorts just to properly counter our heroes.
EX:
Isa for Lea
Ansem SoD/YX for Riku
Xemnas/Brige for Sora
Terra/ME for Aqua
Vanitas/Terra for Ven
 

StMRyEire

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You say's all the Xahenorts have to be there cause they want to? Isa/Saix is most likely and involuntary member seeing to the fact in DAYS he was planing to betray Xemnas! Terra probably an involuntary member too but is one of the dew on the most possible list. Besides this is crazy-prepared Master Xahenort he's mostly turn his most dangerous enemies into his forced allies(like he tried to do with Sora). Hell he's also probably bringing Xehanorts just to properly counter our heroes.
EX:
Isa for Lea
Ansem SoD/YX for Riku
Xemnas/Brige for Sora
Terra/ME for Aqua
Vanitas/Terra for Ven

I didn't say he wasn't there because he didn't want or wanted to be there. Xehanort killed him. Why would he kill someone who was potentially going to be one of his vessels?
 

Sephiroth0812

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That still leaves a broad hole though as Eraqus' body, which would be needed as the "vessel", was destroyed by Xehanort's blast in BBS.

So no vessel => no additional Eraqusnort.
 

Memory Master

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That still leaves a broad hole though as Eraqus' body, which would be needed as the "vessel", was destroyed by Xehanort's blast in BBS.

So no vessel => no additional Eraqusnort.

Here is what I think. Terra was under direct control of MX's heart up until Terranort seperated into XH and Xemnas, right? My guess is that even though MX and Terra are seperate now, obviously we know Terra still has a fragment of MX's heart in him and is one of the XIII Darknesses for the time being. Given all of this I would Terra is more like 80%-90% Xehanort now, but he would be 100% Xehanort if not for Eraqus being in Terra's heart. I think that Terra's will to stop MX and Eraqus' strong comitment to light is the only thing keeping Terra from becoming 100% Xehanort. Thus leaving a glimmer of hope of rescuing Terra and allowing him to slowly return to normal in KH3.
 

8298906

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That still leaves a broad hole though as Eraqus' body, which would be needed as the "vessel", was destroyed by Xehanort's blast in BBS.

When was it said it was destroyed? Can bodies even be destroyed?

Here is what I think. Terra was under direct control of MX's heart up until Terranort seperated into XH and Xemnas, right? My guess is that even though MX and Terra are seperate now, obviously we know Terra still has a fragment of MX's heart in him and is one of the XIII Darknesses for the time being. Given all of this I would Terra is more like 80%-90% Xehanort now, but he would be 100% Xehanort if not for Eraqus being in Terra's heart. I think that Terra's will to stop MX and Eraqus' strong comitment to light is the only thing keeping Terra from becoming 100% Xehanort. Thus leaving a glimmer of hope of rescuing Terra and allowing him to slowly return to normal in KH3.

This is probable. Like why have the concept of ME's heart in Terra and not do anything important with it.
 

Smithee

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Here is what I think. Terra was under direct control of MX's heart up until Terranort seperated into XH and Xemnas, right? My guess is that even though MX and Terra are seperate now, obviously we know Terra still has a fragment of MX's heart in him and is one of the XIII Darknesses for the time being. Given all of this I would Terra is more like 80%-90% Xehanort now, but he would be 100% Xehanort if not for Eraqus being in Terra's heart. I think that Terra's will to stop MX and Eraqus' strong comitment to light is the only thing keeping Terra from becoming 100% Xehanort. Thus leaving a glimmer of hope of rescuing Terra and allowing him to slowly return to normal in KH3.

So, even with a 2nd heart on his side, Terra STILL wasn't strong enough to "show Xehanort the door!?"

This is probably the #1 reason why DDD's story seems to have left me with a bitter taste in my mouth. Blank Points made it seem like Eraqus' heart greatly reinforced Terra's, but DDD was all like, "screw that, Xehanort beat Terra anyway!"

For all this talk about Light and Darkness being in perfect balance, Nomura sure is going out of his way to make Light look weak.
 

Memory Master

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So, even with a 2nd heart on his side, Terra STILL wasn't strong enough to "show Xehanort the door!?"

This is probably the #1 reason why DDD's story seems to have left me with a bitter taste in my mouth. Blank Points made it seem like Eraqus' heart greatly reinforced Terra's, but DDD was all like, "screw that, Xehanort beat Terra anyway!"

For all this talk about Light and Darkness being in perfect balance, Nomura sure is going out of his way to make Light look weak.

Oh that always happens in stories. Toward the climax of something the good side looks like its about to lose and there is no way to win but then BAM!! something happens to give the good side the upper hand and they beat the bad side.

What will probably happen is Sora will have Ventus and Aqua as party members in a fight with NeoTerranort. There's a long scene afterwards where Terra and Eraqus struggle for control and maybe the princesses of heart even get in on this and help Terra, and then we'll see the gold eyes, white hair, and tan skin go bye bye and Terra will be like, "I'm so sorry...I failed to stop him....I've ruined so many lives..." Then Eraqus will come out of Terra and say some inspirational stuff before passing on to KH.

BTW, am I right to assume NeoTerranort is what we're calling Terra as one of the XIII Darknesses but with MX and him seperate now? Cause i've seen a few people us that nickname now.
 

Crystal

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That still leaves a broad hole though as Eraqus' body, which would be needed as the "vessel", was destroyed by Xehanort's blast in BBS.

So no vessel => no additional Eraqusnort.

How about Vanitas? He can't be one of the vessels?
 

chasespicer056

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Can you explain #8? Wasn't Eraqus hell-bent on protecting TAV from the darkness and not using it and wanted to stop MX from recreating the Keyblade War and the X-Blade?

He was, but that didn't seem to have much effect in stopping Apprentice Xehanort, now did it? Plus, he hints before his death in BBS that he too has darkness.

That still leaves a broad hole though as Eraqus' body, which would be needed as the "vessel", was destroyed by Xehanort's blast in BBS.

So no vessel => no additional Eraqusnort.

So was MX's body, but he's back too! So I figure since his body faded away into balls of light and now has returned, Eraqus's might have done the same.
 

JustSnilloc

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I feel slightly stupid, but- who is NeoTerranort exactly? XD

Its AX but revived when Xemnas and Ansem SoD were defeated.

BTW, am I right to assume NeoTerranort is what we're calling Terra as one of the XIII Darknesses but with MX and him seperate now? Cause i've seen a few people us that nickname now.

Yeah, check my topic here for a full explanation HERE

But basically, NeoTerranort is a new version of the old Terranort...

- The old Terranort consisted of Terra's Heart/Body/Soul with the addition of Master Xehanort's Heart (ignoring Eraqus atm)
- This "NeoTerranort" consists of the same thing, but Master Xehanort's heart has been replaced with the heart that Xemnas grew
(--- This is because when the heartless and nobody are defeated, all parts go back to reform the original being)

Thus, Master Xehanort could freely leave Terra's body while still controlling it
 

Etherealin

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Yeah, check my topic here for a full explanation HERE

But basically, NeoTerranort is a new version of the old Terranort...

- The old Terranort consisted of Terra's Heart/Body/Soul with the addition of Master Xehanort's Heart (ignoring Eraqus atm)
- This "NeoTerranort" consists of the same thing, but Master Xehanort's heart has been replaced with the heart that Xemnas grew
(--- This is because when the heartless and nobody are defeated, all parts go back to reform the original being)

Thus, Master Xehanort could freely leave Terra's body while still controlling it

That makes a lot more sense now, thanks.
 

Memory Master

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Yeah, check my topic here for a full explanation HERE

But basically, NeoTerranort is a new version of the old Terranort...

- The old Terranort consisted of Terra's Heart/Body/Soul with the addition of Master Xehanort's Heart (ignoring Eraqus atm)
- This "NeoTerranort" consists of the same thing, but Master Xehanort's heart has been replaced with the heart that Xemnas grew
(--- This is because when the heartless and nobody are defeated, all parts go back to reform the original being)

Thus, Master Xehanort could freely leave Terra's body while still controlling it

That's good, I just wanted to make sure before I started using NeoTerranort alot.

Reading your thread made me think of how great it is the plot is starting to tie together. When I finished BBS I felt like the X-Blade wasn't a needed plot device because I felt like if we start getting more than one way to reach KH then its going to become a little silly, plus I thought it was a little too easy to create. But after what we found out in KH3D I love the X-Blade now. To find out that XH and Xemnas' plots weren't just them acting on their own but actually they were part of one big back up plan to forge the X-Blade really ties things together nicely.

Speaking of which i'm thinking that even though the Princesses of Heart being gathered can open the Door to Darkness, I don't think you can actually get to Kingdom Hearts like that. So I don't think XH was trying to reach KH, but as we know now he was simply trying to allow darkness to pour into the Realm of Light so the worlds would be defenseless when the second Keyblade War began. I think he was simply calling out to KH in desperation at the end of KH1 and isntead KH reacted to Sora's call. That means the X-Blade is really the only true method of getting to Kingdom Hearts.

So I wonder if MX is able to forge a true X-Blade in KHIII, will the worlds be reorganized again and the universe changed from its current form? I think that is a nice way to begin a new saga because it opens up all new possibilities.
 

OathkeeperRoxas XIII

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I imagine it be a double edge sword, good than bad later on. It reminds of my KH3 trilogy and keep in mind I had the rest of it planned out before DDD came so don't ask.

After their first battle in Kingdom Hearts, Terra (Now in the Realm of Darkness, waiting for Sora to save him again), he leaves Soraand company a important mission to bring the worlds together by ties of Light.

After stopping Xehanort once and for all and destoryed the X-blade, KH was then sealed by... Remember I thought of this two years ago, Sora, Riku, Kairi, Terra, Aqua, Ven, and Mickey.

So their efforts might affect the next villain.
 

8298906

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Reading your thread made me think of how great it is the plot is starting to tie together.

Yes DDD is tying past story elements together really good. The PoH, Organization 13, Kingdom hearts, the X-blade, all that. It's taking all the important elements from the past games and connecting them for the finale! I'm just crossing my fingers and hope they don't mess it up.

To find out that XH and Xemnas' plots weren't just them acting on their own but actually they were part of one big back up plan to forge the X-Blade really ties things together nicely.
Yes, MX was the only Xahenort that actually tried to use an alternative method to get to Kingdom Hearts. Xemnas was only making his man made KH just to strip the other Nobodies of their new found hearts(and to give him god-like power or whatever) and Ansem SoD was just trying to spew darkness into the worlds. So after BBS MX was trying the original way of recreating the X-Blade and get to KH. And he would've gotten away with it two if it wasn't for some meddling Kid(s) and their anthropomorphic animal friends!
 

StMRyEire

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A quick question I have is that Yen Sid is gathering up the Seven Lights to prevent the Keyblade War, right? But... if all of these XIII Darknesses contain a portion of Xehanort inside them, they'll eventually get his Keyblade. So, assuming that all the Seven Lights are going to have Keyblades, isn't that essentially giving Xehanort what he wants in a Keyblade War? I suppose it's kind of been made inevitable by the planning MX has done.
 

Smithee

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Oh that always happens in stories. Toward the climax of something the good side looks like its about to lose and there is no way to win but then BAM!! something happens to give the good side the upper hand and they beat the bad side.

What will probably happen is Sora will have Ventus and Aqua as party members in a fight with NeoTerranort. There's a long scene afterwards where Terra and Eraqus struggle for control and maybe the princesses of heart even get in on this and help Terra, and then we'll see the gold eyes, white hair, and tan skin go bye bye and Terra will be like, "I'm so sorry...I failed to stop him....I've ruined so many lives..." Then Eraqus will come out of Terra and say some inspirational stuff before passing on to KH.

BTW, am I right to assume NeoTerranort is what we're calling Terra as one of the XIII Darknesses but with MX and him seperate now? Cause i've seen a few people us that nickname now.

Uh....all that buildup about how Eraqus was the perfect foil to Xehanort inside Terra, and all it leads to is................an inspirational speech? Really?

Did you even see Blank Points? Terra was calm, collected (then again, all his anger was forced into his armor), and 100% confident that he would win the battle for his body/heart/soul/etc. You don't get that kind confidence if you believe that all your "guardian angel" is going to give you is a pep talk in the future. Also, Xehanort, even when mentioning his "other roads" (a.k.a. the 13 Darknesses) at the end, did not seem fully certain that he could win over Terra after realizing that Eraqus was assisting him. If your theory comes true in a future game, then Nomura just wasted our time with Terra's "epilogue."

Furthermore, DDD reveals to us that Organization XIII was supposed to be a group of vessels for Xehanort, but nearly all of them (except Xigbar and Saix) became too free-willed for Xehanort's heart to possess, which is why he had to create a 2nd Organization, the 13 Darknesses. The same 13 that had to have Sora's heart too damaged to resist before Xehanort even attempted to make him into a vessel. Now why do you think Xehanort was going through all this trouble to make sure his vessels did not become too independent? Perhaps, sometime before DDD, Terra ended up "showing him the door" after all.

Having Terra NOT be one of the 13 will ultimately give both him and Xehanort credibility: Terra, for making good on his promises against Xehanort, and Xehanort, for being crafty enough to get spare vessels so that Terra's victory does not really hinder him that much.

I can see it now in KH3:

Xehanort: *sarcastic clapping* Congratulations, Terra. You made good on your promise to "show me the door" after all, albeit with help from your fanatical master. However, I have also made good on MY vows as well. Your victory over my control is a shallow one, as you were not the only one to partake in my power. Did you really think that I would risk losing my chance at immortality with YOU? No, I needed an ace in the hole. 13 aces, to be precise. Perhaps my other followers will appreciate the "gift" that you spurned out of stubbornness. I have no further use for you, Terra. Enjoy your freedom, for what time you have left.
 

Memory Master

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Uh....all that buildup about how Eraqus was the perfect foil to Xehanort inside Terra, and all it leads to is................an inspirational speech? Really?

Did you even see Blank Points? Terra was calm, collected (then again, all his anger was forced into his armor), and 100% confident that he would win the battle for his body/heart/soul/etc. You don't get that kind confidence if you believe that all your "guardian angel" is going to give you is a pep talk in the future. Also, Xehanort, even when mentioning his "other roads" (a.k.a. the 13 Darknesses) at the end, did not seem fully certain that he could win over Terra after realizing that Eraqus was assisting him. If your theory comes true in a future game, then Nomura just wasted our time with Terra's "epilogue."

Furthermore, DDD reveals to us that Organization XIII was supposed to be a group of vessels for Xehanort, but nearly all of them (except Xigbar and Saix) became too free-willed for Xehanort's heart to possess, which is why he had to create a 2nd Organization, the 13 Darknesses. The same 13 that had to have Sora's heart too damaged to resist before Xehanort even attempted to make him into a vessel. Now why do you think Xehanort was going through all this trouble to make sure his vessels did not become too independent? Perhaps, sometime before DDD, Terra ended up "showing him the door" after all.

Having Terra NOT be one of the 13 will ultimately give both him and Xehanort credibility: Terra, for making good on his promises against Xehanort, and Xehanort, for being crafty enough to get spare vessels so that Terra's victory does not really hinder him that much.

I can see it now in KH3:

Xehanort: *sarcastic clapping* Congratulations, Terra. You made good on your promise to "show me the door" after all, albeit with help from your fanatical master. However, I have also made good on MY vows as well. Your victory over my control is a shallow one, as you were not the only one to partake in my power. Did you really think that I would risk losing my chance at immortality with YOU? No, I needed an ace in the hole. 13 aces, to be precise. Perhaps my other followers will appreciate the "gift" that you spurned out of stubbornness. I have no further use for you, Terra. Enjoy your freedom, for what time you have left.

Okay, wait a second you've lost me. Are you arguing that Terra isn't one of the 13 darknesses?

Because in KH3D MX says he already has one of the 7 Lights on his side. A.K.A Terra.

What i'm saying is that Eraqus' heart being one so devoted to the light, is the thing that prevents Xehanort's heart from ever getting full control of Terra's heart. Eraqus' light is what has kept Terra this whole time from becoming 100% Xehanort.

If Xehanort was aware that using 13 Darknesses and 7 Lights was the true way to forge the X-Blade, then Eraqus probably knew that too. After seeing Terra had fallen so deep in darkness when they fought in BBS, Eraqus suspected if his hasty plan to use Ven and Vanitas to forge an X-Blade failed, then he would try to do it the right way. As such Eraqus knew Terra would surelly be one of the people MX would go after to create the 13 Darknesses. Which is why when he fell into Terra's arm his heart entered Terra. Eraqus knew that if Terra had the aid of his heart there was a chance to keep MX from fully taking over Terra's heart, and I believe Eraqus' plan has worked this whole time, despite the fact that MX's control over Terra has grown stronger over the years, he has never been able to fully consume Terra's heart because Eraqus' heart is preventing that.

In KH3 I think when Aqua and Ven are finally with Terra again, it will be them on the outside and Eraqus' heart on the inside that finally pushes back and expells Xehanort's heart from Terra completely thus finally returning Terra to normal. After Terra is freed from Xehanort, Eraqus' heart can finally rest in peace and pass on to KH.
 

Smithee

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Okay, wait a second you've lost me. Are you arguing that Terra isn't one of the 13 darknesses?

Because in KH3D MX says he already has one of the 7 Lights on his side. A.K.A Terra.

What i'm saying is that Eraqus' heart being one so devoted to the light, is the thing that prevents Xehanort's heart from ever getting full control of Terra's heart. Eraqus' light is what has kept Terra this whole time from becoming 100% Xehanort.

If Xehanort was aware that using 13 Darknesses and 7 Lights was the true way to forge the X-Blade, then Eraqus probably knew that too. After seeing Terra had fallen so deep in darkness when they fought in BBS, Eraqus suspected if his hasty plan to use Ven and Vanitas to forge an X-Blade failed, then he would try to do it the right way. As such Eraqus knew Terra would surelly be one of the people MX would go after to create the 13 Darknesses. Which is why when he fell into Terra's arm his heart entered Terra. Eraqus knew that if Terra had the aid of his heart there was a chance to keep MX from fully taking over Terra's heart, and I believe Eraqus' plan has worked this whole time, despite the fact that MX's control over Terra has grown stronger over the years, he has never been able to fully consume Terra's heart because Eraqus' heart is preventing that.

In KH3 I think when Aqua and Ven are finally with Terra again, it will be them on the outside and Eraqus' heart on the inside that finally pushes back and expells Xehanort's heart from Terra completely thus finally returning Terra to normal. After Terra is freed from Xehanort, Eraqus' heart can finally rest in peace and pass on to KH.

You mean the subtitles that read: "However, both Sora and the last one are on our side."?

That was likely a mistranslation. What it should've read was: "However, Sora, the last one, is on our side." Of course, we all know how THAT ended (thanks, Lea)....

I'll admit, though, that when Xehanort describes what happened to Terra, Aqua, and Ven, he does conclude with: "....and one became my vessel." He's right: Terra did become his vessel....in BBS. That doesn't mean that Terra still IS his vessel, though. Xehanort could've just been referring to what happened IN THE PAST.

Also, who says Eraqus is going to "rest in peace"? I think he's going to be revived just like his students.
 

StMRyEire

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You mean the subtitles that read: "However, both Sora and the last one are on our side."?

That was likely a mistranslation. What it should've read was: "However, Sora, the last one, is on our side." Of course, we all know how THAT ended (thanks, Lea)....

I'll admit, though, that when Xehanort describes what happened to Terra, Aqua, and Ven, he does conclude with: "....and one became my vessel." He's right: Terra did become his vessel....in BBS. That doesn't mean that Terra still IS his vessel, though. Xehanort could've just been referring to what happened IN THE PAST.

Also, who says Eraqus is going to "rest in peace"? I think he's going to be revived just like his students.

How can Terra be free from Xehanort's control if HIS body is Ansem SOD's body?
 
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