Could TAV have won against the Organization XIII?



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doublerainbow

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I mean the old one, not the current one that MX is gathering.(but i think they will eventually take part in fighting the new Org Xiii in KH3 anyway) Are their great enough compare to Sora and Riku?As far as i've seen, Sora didn't really had any trouble fighting dealing with any organization members, except maybe Xemnas with Kingdom hearts power.
Not all 3 of them fighting at the same time,but individually?
 

Sephiroth0812

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Roxas, who was only at half his power during that time in Days, could beat Saix one on one, so if it would go like in KH 2 with one Org member at a time the TAV trio would have no real problem dealing with them as well.
Both Terra and Aqua already beat Braig in BBS itself while Ventus gains a considerable power boost in the second half of his story when he gets more confident and is able to go toe to toe with Maleficent in her witch form as well as taking on Captain Hook one on one.

It's also somewhat a misconception that people tend to designate the BBS Trio as weaker than Sora or Riku just because they got nearly curbstomped in that cutscene by MX.
The BBS Trio should actually be stronger than anything Sora or Riku could muster up to DDD.
It was only during Dream Drop Distance that Sora and Riku reached the same level as TAV in terms of proficiency with the Keyblade.
 

Ruran

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It's also somewhat a misconception that people tend to designate the BBS Trio as weaker than Sora or Riku just because they got nearly curbstomped in that cutscene by MX.
The BBS Trio should actually be stronger than anything Sora or Riku could muster up to DDD.
It was only during Dream Drop Distance that Sora and Riku reached the same level as TAV in terms of proficiency with the Keyblade.
Also, Sora having a much flashier move set than TAV plays a part in gouging strength. Every now and then, I'll see someone bring up how bombastic and over the top Sora's moves in KH2 were as a show of strength when in reality, it's just gameplay mechanics. Otherwise, we almost never see these super fantastical skills during cut scenes or something or other. Which also plays into why TAV look like they suddenly suck when fighting MX and Vanitas since all the flashy moves they picked up throughout the course of the game are suddenly "gone".

But yeah, there's your answer OP. TAV should be stronger and more refined than KH2 Sora and Riku so they ought to have been fine in a hypothetical situation where they fought Organization XIII Classic.
 

Divine Past

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Sora demolish organization members without much of a sweat, he also beat the Castle Oblivion crew without his full power either so I can't imagine TAV having much issue with any of the members except maybe Lexaeus or possibly Roxas post Xion fight if he count.
 
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Sephiroth0812

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Also, Sora having a much flashier move set than TAV plays a part in gouging strength. Every now and then, I'll see someone bring up how bombastic and over the top Sora's moves in KH2 were as a show of strength when in reality, it's just gameplay mechanics. Otherwise, we almost never see these super fantastical skills during cut scenes or something or other. Which also plays into why TAV look like they suddenly suck when fighting MX and Vanitas since all the flashy moves they picked up throughout the course of the game are suddenly "gone".

But yeah, there's your answer OP. TAV should be stronger and more refined than KH2 Sora and Riku so they ought to have been fine in a hypothetical situation where they fought Organization XIII Classic.
Agreed, this has to be taken into consideration too because that was another of KH 2's many flaws, portraying Sora as some overpowered Hollywood super hero with invincible protagonist armor surely blurs the lines.
In his battle with Roxas that is shown even more bluntly as Sora only won because the plot demanded it and Roxas conveniently "forgot" that the Keyblade goes back to its owner (despite having seen and experienced it during the time of Days himself).
TAV also have quite some flashy commands and finishers in BBS, but none of that gets actually shown during any cutscenes.
The best example for that which I also have already seen brought up is the "Sora slicing through skycrapers" and some other over the top reaction commands. BBS had close to no true reaction commands like KH 2 had and thus may give false impressions even more.

Even the journal in KH 2 acknowledges TAV's superiority though indirectly:
KH 2 FM Lingering Will said:
A mysterious man who appeared in the portal within Disney Castle.
Clad in armor, he controls the Keyblade and its power with more ease than Sora.
Concerning the BBS Trio itself I've also noticed some people apparently feeling to designate Ventus as "weak", possibly even the weakest Keyblade Wielder out of the original characters, often paired with the reasoning that Aqua (and Terra to an extent) are "babying" him and trying to keep him out of harms way.
This has nothing to do with Ventus' strength however but with Terra and Aqua being overprotective. When Ventus first came to them four years before BBS proper starts, he was literally a memoryless wreck who couldn't even tie his own shoes, so there exists even a plausible reason as to why Terra and Aqua sometimes act like "helicopter parents".

Terra however seems to be have gained some faith as he rebuffs Aqua's suggestion to send Ven away during the exam:
BBS said:
Aqua: But Ven, you're in danger here! Go wait in your room.

Ven: No way! I've been looking forward to this--seeing you two become Masters. I'm not gonna miss it now!

Terra: He can take care of himself. He's been out there training just as hard as us.
That being said though, counting not only the BBS Trio, but all the "good" characters not named Sora in, I certainly hope that KH III doesn't go the same route again by portraying Sora as the invincible uber-protagonist with all the flashy moves while the other main characters constantly get their asses handed to them to show off Sora as even greater.
 

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That being said though, counting not only the BBS Trio, but all the "good" characters not named Sora in, I certainly hope that KH III doesn't go the same route again by portraying Sora as the invincible uber-protagonist with all the flashy moves while the other main characters constantly get their asses handed to them to show off Sora as even greater.
I would prepare to be disappointed then. He is going to be the big hero in shining armor that saves everyone else so I don't see the odds exactly in the other characters favor.
 

Divine Past

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That being said though, counting not only the BBS Trio, but all the "good" characters not named Sora in, I certainly hope that KH III doesn't go the same route again by portraying Sora as the invincible uber-protagonist with all the flashy moves while the other main characters constantly get their asses handed to them to show off Sora as even greater.
[video=youtube_share;342fwJFJvo0]http://youtu.be/342fwJFJvo0?t=2m59s[/video]


No idea what you are talking about, that never happened!
 

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I would prepare to be disappointed then. He is going to be the big hero in shining armor that saves everyone else so I don't see the odds exactly in the other characters favor.
Okay, let's not exaggerate here. Sora has not been shown to be more powerful than, say, Riku or Mickey so I imagine he'd be at most on par with the others. Not to mention, Sora's the big hero not because of his battle abilities but because of his capacity to love with child-like enthusiasm.
 

Blackdrazon

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DDD did go out of its way to remind us that Sora is the soft squishy bubblegum holding the team together instead of the heavy metal truncheon.

That said, Sora being the soft squishy bubblegum could easily get him just as many compassion-based hero moments in KH3 as there are characters to rescue. Roxas, Xion, Aqua, Terra, Ventus, possibly Eraqus... probably Kairi again, Riku again. This series writes in loops.
 

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Okay, let's not exaggerate here. Sora has not been shown to be more powerful than, say, Riku or Mickey so I imagine he'd be at most on par with the others. Not to mention, Sora's the big hero not because of his battle abilities but because of his capacity to love with child-like enthusiasm.
If we're not going to exaggerate then we also need not misinterpret. I didn't mean battle abilities but in the context that he is the hero and going to save everyone in KH3. Meaning more moments for him to shine over other characters and thus making it possible to get a repeat of KH2 in some form.
 
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Dandelion

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If we're not going to exaggerate then we also need not be uptight and misinterpret. I didn't mean battle abilities but in the context that he is the hero and going to save everyone in KH3. Meaning more moments for him to shine over other characters and thus making it possible to get a repeat of KH2 in some form.
Yeesh. Sorry if I pushed a button with that, but in the context of what the post you were referring to it was talking about ability alone. Naturally Sora's going to shine in the story, he is the protagonist. I was just saying his saving everyone as you put it is going to be the result of bonds he'd already forged by being himself. I don't see how that would lend to him having flashier battle mechanics, canon wise. Though we've gone off subject here, I suppose.
 

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Yeesh. Sorry if I pushed a button with that, but in the context of what the post you were referring to it was talking about ability alone. Naturally Sora's going to shine in the story, he is the protagonist. I was just saying his saving everyone as you put it is going to be the result of bonds he'd already forged by being himself. I don't see how that would lend to him having flashier battle mechanics, canon wise. Though we've gone off subject here, I suppose.
I just took the post I was quoting in the context of Sora showing up everyone else. Even if it isn't to KH2 level the odds of him not being flashier than everyone else is slim I think due to his role.
He may not slice through skyscrapers in KH3 but if what we see in the trailer is what is to come then I don't see him being not flashy at all.
 

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[video=youtube_share;342fwJFJvo0]http://youtu.be/342fwJFJvo0?t=2m59s[/video]


No idea what you are talking about, that never happened!
I don't exactly get what this video you posted there is supposed to show, if anything it just reinforces the point I made because everyone except Sora gets easily captured by Luxord without even a slightest hint of resistance.

Okay, let's not exaggerate here. Sora has not been shown to be more powerful than, say, Riku or Mickey so I imagine he'd be at most on par with the others. Not to mention, Sora's the big hero not because of his battle abilities but because of his capacity to love with child-like enthusiasm.
Correct, the point I made there was also completely in context of portrayal rather than actual battle power or gameplay issues.
It's also one of the reasons as to why "tiers" for the characters and those "who is the strongest out of X, Y and Z" do not really work because of vastly different portrayal of the different characters outside of gameplay.

If we're not going to exaggerate then we also need not misinterpret. I didn't mean battle abilities but in the context that he is the hero and going to save everyone in KH3. Meaning more moments for him to shine over other characters and thus making it possible to get a repeat of KH2 in some form.
Then I'm afraid you misinterpreted my whole point.
It is a no-brainer that Sora is the main protagonist and that he is supposed to be the one saving all the tormented ones is a thing set in stone since BBS.
The point I made was about how the portrayal of his allies is handled, which for KH III would mean mostly after all the rescue stuff is done. When the others will eventually fight alongside Sora, they should actually show some of their prowess as well that we have seen throughout the series and not just be cannon fodder for the villains in cutscenes.
What would be the point in rescuing all those or have Mickey, Kairi, Riku, Donald and Goofy alongside you if in the end they are portrayed more as a liability rather than a help and Sora has to do it all alone nonetheless playing Hollywood Rambo?
In that case, we could skip all the hassles and just send Sora out alone to destroy Xehanort and the thirteen seekers on his own.

I just took the post I was quoting in the context of Sora showing up everyone else. Even if it isn't to KH2 level the odds of him not being flashier than everyone else is slim I think due to his role.
He may not slice through skyscrapers in KH3 but if what we see in the trailer is what is to come then I don't see him being not flashy at all.
Sora being flashy is not even a problem if the other characters get to show of their "flashy" moves as well, as we know from their gameplay that they can do more than just swing Keyblades around. The ratio of things shown off is the important issue, as otherwise thread questions such as the one given here are bound to not get a remotely close answer because the characters cannot be gauged against each other due to a disparate ratio of showing abilities.
Not to mention that this also only counts in battle abilities and shown abilities during story scenes, disregarding all the other factors than may decide a battle like stamina, agility, wit, environment, emotional state of all participants etc.
 

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I don't exactly get what this video you posted there is supposed to show, if anything it just reinforces the point I made because everyone except Sora gets easily captured by Luxord without even a slightest hint of resistance.
I wish there was a sarcasm font here to make it clear twas a joke :(
 

Divine Past

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A hinting smilie or something would probably have helped as well, lol.
I know the issue though as I also have made statements in the past that got misunderstood. ;)
That's the problem, other website I visit they offer a sarcasm font so its clear but here I'll need to step my game up it seems.
 

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Yes they can. Aqua, Terra, and Ventus are stronger to KH2 Riku and Sora, who destroyed the organization
 

EmaKey

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Terra, Ventus and Aqua are stronger than Riku and Sora in Kh2 so yeah they should have no prob facing the Org13. Moreover Nomura said that the Trio is stronger than Sora and Riku. The only reason Why Sora seems so strong is Why all the op and flashy moves that can be seen in KH2. Moreover Sora is prob still alive thank to Donald and Goofy( they surely are Not useful in terms of power in kh2 but in terms of plot they are really important )
 

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Terra, Ventus and Aqua are stronger than Riku and Sora in Kh2 so yeah they should have no prob facing the Org13. Moreover Nomura said that the Trio is stronger than Sora and Riku. The only reason Why Sora seems so strong is Why all the op and flashy moves that can be seen in KH2. Moreover Sora is prob still alive thank to Donald and Goofy( they surely are Not useful in terms of power in kh2 but in terms of plot they are really important )
Yeah they won't break a sweat and are stronger than them, also don't forget the fact that Donald at least heals you XD, or in another case you've either used cure or a potion and then that duck finally decides to heal you (~>_<~).
 

Samhain

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Terra, Ventus and Aqua are stronger than Riku and Sora in Kh2 so yeah they should have no prob facing the Org13. Moreover Nomura said that the Trio is stronger than Sora and Riku. The only reason Why Sora seems so strong is Why all the op and flashy moves that can be seen in KH2. Moreover Sora is prob still alive thank to Donald and Goofy( they surely are Not useful in terms of power in kh2 but in terms of plot they are really important )
Yup. Game play and cutscenes are different

Sora would get owned if he was against Ventus. But as of present? Riku and Sora are getting stronger and learning how to use the keyblade better under Yen Sid.
 
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