Could Radiant Garden be Daybreak Town?

[OneDandelion]

Is this a theory yet?

-All of the technology is there to place people into data worlds and such.

-Most of the Organization members/apprentices of Ansem the Wise seem to be from KHX/UX

-The architecture seems similar, or perhaps a bit worn down.

-And also, this:

looks kind of like this:

Maybe the same kind of magic that turned the land of departure into the chamber of waking turned Daybreak town into Radiant Garden

edit: Thanks to Ballad of Caius this is clearly wrong. But there are still questions about the links between the technology used by Ansem the Wise and Vexen and the tech found in Daybreak town.

And I still think some magic is sealing the castle in radiant garden.

 

[Ballad of Caius]

-All of the technology is there to place people into data worlds and such.

This is something Ansem the Wise developed himself.

-Most of the Organization members/apprentices of Ansem the Wise seem to be from KHX/UX

Not one of the original five apprentices, nor Xehanort as the newer one, were from the Age of Fairytales. Yes, Luxu possessed the person we knew as Braig/Xigbar, but that person was originally from current KINGDOM HEARTS time.

Maybe the same kind of magic that turned the land of departure into the chamber of waking turned Daybreak town into Radiant Garden

And last but not least: we see a destroyed Daybreak Town below Scala ad Caelum when we fight Master Xehanort in the underwater phase of the armored segment of the final boss fight.

If anything, the survivors of the KHx Keyblade War must have built Scala.

 

[OneDandelion]

And last but not least: we see a destroyed Daybreak Town below Scala ad Caelum when we fight Master Xehanort in the underwater phase of the armored segment of the final boss fight.

Wow! This is awesome I hadn't noticed this at all. Still, it is interesting that something like Scala ad Caelum is built on top of Daybreak town similarly to how Radiant Garden towers over Villains vale.

You're right that none of the apprentices were from the age of fairytales, but its still interesting they work together and that the apprentices all had hearts strong enough to become nobodies in the first place. I've also found it hard to believe for a while that Ansem and Vexen were able to make so much progress with their research without any help from outside sources or source material.

So you're probably mostly right, but I can't help but think there are still links between Radiant Garden and Daybreak Town. Ansem the Wise's origin has yet to be explained correct? Maybe he migrated himself and his apprentices to Radiant Garden from Scala ad Caelum at some point.

 

[darknessofheart]

I think Nomura confirmed in one of the KH3 Ultimania interviews that Scala was built upon the ruins of Daybreak Town.

 

[AdrianXXII]

So you're probably mostly right, but I can't help but think there are still links between Radiant Garden and Daybreak Town. Ansem the Wise's origin has yet to be explained correct? Maybe he migrated himself and his apprentices to Radiant Garden from Scala ad Caelum at some point.

I feel like it's more likely that some people from Scala might have emigrate to other worlds and built town and such that then ended up influenced by things from Daybreak Town.

At the moment I see more of a connection between Land of Departure, the Keyblade Graveyard and Scala ad Calum/Daybreak Town. Though I could see LoD just being an out post on a important location for keeping the light save that Keyblade Weilders from Scala set up.

The way Luxu talks about the Keyblade War and how Kairi's grandma talks about the fairy tale/legend makes it seem like it must have been a few hundred years maybe even thousands between UX and BBS.

 

[Noivern]

-All of the technology is there to place people into data worlds and such.



edit: Thanks to Ballad of Caius this is clearly wrong. But there are still questions about the links between the technology used by Ansem the Wise and Vexen and the tech found in Daybreak town.

And I still think some magic is sealing the castle in radiant garden.

The answer to both of these is pretty obvious, actually. The Book of Prophecies has all of history in it thanks to MoM Eye being in his Keyblade, so it's most likely a timeloop: the MoM (and the apprentices) just reverse-engineered the technology that Ansem the Wise would develop himself in the future.

That being said, when we first go to Radiant Garden in BBS as Terra, someone (I don't remember who on top of my head, but I believe it was Xehanort when he was calling Terra there?) calls the place the "City of Light".

While it seems that most if not all of what we know of RG was built by Ansem, it's perfectly possible that he and other citizens are descendants of survivors of the Keyblade War and like Adrian pointed out, and it was the knowledge from that time (turned legend eventually) that would spark the same curiosity that cause Ansem to eventually research the Hearts and the Darkness, while the special connection the land seems to have with light might have been the reason Subject X ended up there.

We also don't know in which worlds the remaining members of the Organization got recruited on, so it's perfectly possible that they also showed up there.

 

[OneDandelion]

The answer to both of these is pretty obvious, actually. The Book of Prophecies has all of history in it thanks to MoM Eye being in his Keyblade, so it's most likely a timeloop: the MoM (and the apprentices) just reverse-engineered the technology that Ansem the Wise would develop himself in the future.

This theory is insane and I kind of love it lol, but the problem would be that Ansem the Wise would have had to exist and develop the technology on a separate timeline in the future- assuming that the timeline with Sora is the only one that has been uniquely altered by the "MoM" and the "virus" resulting in the current timeline. I don't know what the odds of Ansem the Wise existing on other timelines are given that the current one is unique so the MoM shouldn't be able to foresee everything exactly as it is from this point forward assuming the 'virus' was successful.

It's also kind of unbelievable for me to think one or two people could have engineered all of that themselves in a single lifetime. It's more realistic to think that Ansem had access to this technology and that he and his apprentices reverse engineered it.

 

[Noivern]

This theory is insane and I kind of love it lol, but the problem would be that Ansem the Wise would have had to exist and develop the technology on a separate timeline in the future- assuming that the timeline with Sora is the only one that has been uniquely altered by the "MoM" and the "virus" resulting in the current timeline. I don't know what the odds of Ansem the Wise existing on other timelines are given that the current one is unique so the MoM shouldn't be able to foresee everything exactly as it is from this point forward assuming the 'virus' was successful.

It's also kind of unbelievable for me to think one or two people could have engineered all of that themselves in a single lifetime. It's more realistic to think that Ansem had access to this technology and that he and his apprentices reverse engineered it.

Except that Ansem the Wise actually showed the capacity to do and build not only that but much more, both from what we get to read in his and Terranorth diaries' but also from what we get to experience in Radiant Garden itself. Besides another form of advanced technology through Teleportation, his whole castle is incredibly advanced, which we get to see in more detail in the KH2 version.

The whole defense system that the Restoration Comite comes up with is build upon his technology which is another example of his mind as it detects and kills low level Heartless automatically and is able to recognize people as non-targets.

We do know that the Castle AI and some of the data world comes from the creator of Tron which Ansem reverse-engineered for the castle, but with the envolvement of Disney in the plot becoming less and less relevant which entry while the DATA worlds increase in relevance, I doubt they would give much credit to that tbh.

Plus, it's a fantasy world in a JRPG. We don't really know much of how Radiant Garden came into being but everything seems to credit Ansem as being the de-facto creator of the world (albeit not literally), so it's a safe bet that everything from the Castle Town was build upon his lifetime.

As for the timeline thing: it's not stated anywhere that the MoM can only see the current timeline, just that the book of prophecies seems to be based on a linear path that the current KH games seem to follow. Wheter the MoM can see into multiple worldlines and just choose that specific one to record is still a mystery.

 

[AmaryllisMoth]

The answer to both of these is pretty obvious, actually. The Book of Prophecies has all of history in it thanks to MoM Eye being in his Keyblade, so it's most likely a timeloop:

The idea of everything possibly being a timeloop is actually really exciting to me.

While the whole alternate dimensions/timelines stuff is still relatively vague as to how all of it is going to work itself out (including how, exactly, the Ux timeline is going to connect with post kh3 is still unknown). And as it seems to directly tie into the time travel shenanigans, it's pretty clear at this point all of the time manipulation/future reading/dimension hopping stuff is going to be interconnected.

However, IF you are right and the entire universe of KH (multi dimenions and all) is actually all a massive time loop...what if the idea is it keeps circling over and over groundhog day style until a certain 'condition' is met? Like...assuming the theories about Re:Mind are correct and all the new battles in the graveyard we see in the trailers are Sora resetting time over and over again to get his own 'win' condition, there could very well be someone else resetting time over and over in a much grander scale, right? MoM perhaps? Like...maybe MoM's grand-master plan is actually to end the time loop and finally push the universe beyond it. Maybe that's actually what opening Kingdom Hearts does? It actually stops time from looping back on itself?

It just makes me wonder if maybe this is actually all Nomura's end-game to wipe the slate clean after this next saga, because maybe all this time travel, dimension making, win condition resetting stuff can only happen within this current looping time universe because it has all already happened at some point. But once/if they break the loop (if it even exists) then those systems all fall apart and time can only move linear one direction again. Such a thing would certainly declutter a lot of confusing things (and prevent major possible plot holes in the future).

Fun little idea egg, either way!

 

[OneDandelion]

However, IF you are right and the entire universe of KH (multi dimenions and all) is actually all a massive time loop...what if the idea is it keeps circling over and over groundhog day style until a certain 'condition' is met?

I generally don't like that kind of time loop because it rarely actually makes sense or feels like a necessary plot device, but I think it could actually work really well here. Especially depending on who the MoM is, perhaps he has constructed this plan over a millennia in order to forcefully rewrite the rules of darkness and light by constructing a sort of zero-sum game within reality that will not allow progression unless a universe bending set of events take

Considering the MoM's desire to put a temporary stop on the war between darkness and light, Eraqus implying they want to rewrite the rules of the "game" between darkness and light, the implications of being to travel back into the past as a heart, etc... I think something along these lines is likely if not certain.

 

[Deleted member 252753]

However, IF you are right and the entire universe of KH (multi dimenions and all) is actually all a massive time loop...what if the idea is it keeps circling over and over groundhog day style until a certain 'condition' is met?

It is an intriguing idea and it reminds me of the odd KH3 glossary entry for datascapes, which defines them as follows:

Artificial simulations based on real-world data. Inside a datascape, time can be made to loop infinitely, and the impossible becomes possible.

I find it weird because I don't remember the idea of time infinitely looping in a datascape being touched upon in KH3 or even really in other games (there is a reset of Data Sora in Coded but not over and over).

Of course we do see an instance of time looping somehow in KH3, in the Keyblade Graveyard via the Final World, though this is apparently in the real world.

And the concepts of worldlines and the Book of Prophecies have at times been linked with darascapes (though I don't really understand them) and there is a lot of talk of the MoM's plan for destiny being like a computer program (susceptible to a 'virus').