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Characters and elements in the KH games you feel get too much flak.



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Kaijuguy19

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I'm aware that the game series has problems some minor or major though I was wondering. Were there any character and elements in them that you feel get too much flak or at least get more flak then they warrant?

Here's my list.

The BBS trio: I've read about how the bond between them wasn't written well and how the plot did a bad way of having them tricked by Xehanort making them look like idiots but sometimes I hear about them being very incompetent morons who made everything worse in the long run and are complete failures and to be honest I feel that's too harsh. Despite their mistakes they also mad their share of triumphs and did help prepare Sora,Riku and Kairi in the future in their respective ways and they're also not hateful characters either.

Ansem the Wise: While I can see how a lot of people didn't like the twist with Ansem the Wise and with Ansem Seeker of Darkness,I don't think the actual character himself was that bad. He tried to understand how the Heart works only to find out in the end that the Heart isn't something science can uncover. Not to mention that his quest to undo the damage drove him to do questionable methods that he later regrets. If you think about it it's tragic seeing him try to undo what he did and just done. Since it's likely he could come of the Realm of Darkness there's a chanch he could come out and be king of Radiant Garden again.
 

Maverick-flame

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Great thread idea!

Terra is one of mine for sure! I think a lot of people actually see him as a bad guy at the end of BBS, where to me he is more of a tragic hero. I think Square is very similar to Eraqus because they portray darkness as being bad, while characters like Riku understand its importance and that it can be controlled. I think Terra's Keyblade Graveyard quote sums it up the best, "what I do I do for friendship," All of Terra's actions are based upon his friends. He struck down Eraqus to protect Ventus and what a lot of people forget is that Xehanort tricked Terra into killing his master.

I feel like Atlantica (KH1) gets a lot of unnecessary hate as well. I never found the controls to be that bad and it wasn't super confusing to find my way around especially compared to Deep Jungle and Hollow Bastion. The battles were extremely difficult I have to admit, but nothing that made me rage like some of the other battles.

Master Xehanort: I'm not sure how much hate he gets, but I think he is a really good villain. He does what he does out of sheer curiosity and is willing to waste thousands of lives for it. He created 13 versions of himself to ensure that his plan goes as forseen and even figured out time travel. If you can think of many villains that are as evil as MX I'd be surprised to say the least.
 
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I totally agree on Ansem the Wise. He's done morally questionable things, but it's not like the game is even trying to gloss over those, like it probably will with Axel. He's an interesting character, a good man that was betrayed and lost everything of his once bright, beautiful life. Seeing someone buckle down and do anything to fight their way back was really cool, especially since he knew what he was doing was wrong the entire time, but he was following the anger and hatred in his heart until he couldn't anymore.

Also, Kairi. She's written into some bad situations, but she certainly doesn't lack personality or emotional drive, and she's definitely not useless or unnecessary.
 

LightUpTheSky452

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I feel like Atlantica (KH1) gets a lot of unnecessary hate as well. I never found the controls to be that bad and it wasn't super confusing to find my way around especially compared to Deep Jungle and Hollow Bastion. The battles were extremely difficult I have to admit, but nothing that made me rage like some of the other battles.

I completely agree with all of this. Call me crazy, but Atlantica is actually my favorite world in KH1. I mean, let's not forget that it is one of the best utilized stories in the game, with how they connect it to the overall KH plot.

King Triton knowing about Keyblade wielders--and having a huge beef with them--was a nice touch, and I wish that they explored more stuff like that in the series going forward.

And as Frustrated Jacob said in some of his Atlantica playthroughs, Atlantica was also great because of Sora and Ariel's bond. They understand/get along with each other really well, because everything that Ariel talks about wanting is something that Sora himself wanted not so long ago. The only difference between them is that at the time, Sora's actually getting to live those dreams. It makes for an interesting dynamic.

Another thing brought up by Frustrated Jacob about why Atlantica was implemented so well in KH1: is because there's an actual moment in there where Ursula tries to turn Ariel against Sora and the gang, creating a nice bit of tension, when she says something like, "Of course I can take you to other worlds, deary. After all, those new friends of yours came from other worlds themselves... Oh. Did they not tell you that?"

So, yeah: I personally adore Atalantica in KH1, and think that it gets way too much hate.

And for the reasons stated above, I'll forever be sad that it isn't featured in the novels:(
 

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You don't know how sick I am of Eraqus getting all his flak from fans.

He wasn't "absolute" because he thought it was fun; he was "absolute" because darkness is the main driving force behind everything wrong in the series so far, and he was never given a single reason to believe otherwise.

And while I agree that he should've communicated better with Ven and Terra, wouldn't "ending" them have still been a mercy compared to MX's plans for them?
 

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KH1 getting flak. I can no longer care enough about most of the series to worry about it's flak anymore. Aside from Aqua flak.
 

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I have a few characters that shouldn't get much flak. Like Mega said, Kairi isn't useless or unnecessary, and she's honestly one of the only characters to not screw up in the series. She's smart and great for being a keyblade wielder. It's just the lack of screen time that bothers me.

As for Aqua, I don't see why she has no "personality" or "purpose" since she isn't apart of Xehanort's plans. She beat the guy, and created Castle Oblivion. She's not a clone of anybody, and has a unique personality of her own. She did everything she could so the others won't get themselves killed. Her love for her friends was the most believable.

All the characters have their flaws, so I understand the flak. I mean, I hate Terra, but I understand his praise. I find Roxas overrated, but I don't really hate him and like Terra I understand his praise, too.
 

Antifa Lockhart

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Things I don't really see the merit in getting hung up on:

Atlantica - if you can fly you can swim, and you had to do a simple rhythm game in kh2, I'd play that Atlantica in every KH game ever if it meant never having to deal with ice cream beat again.
Namine
Keyblade Lore and Succession - Nomura's at least had this in his head since KH2 (I'm willing to bet since KH1, actually, such a big deal was made about Riku being chosen but if it were just by the Keyblade's whims then there's really no differentiator between Riku and Sora but I digress). Preconceived notions from 2002 aren't the same things as retcons or even headcanons.
Terra not being evil.
Flowmotion.
X's inclusion.
Kairi.
 

Oathkeyper97

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I may be crucified for this, but I don't think KH2's Atlantica was all that bad. It's definitely my least favorite part of the game, but I don't find it completely unenjoyable

I also feel like Re:coded gets a lot of hate for not being important to the story, when it actually is. The tragic events of Days and BBS are finally addressed by Data-Namine revealing that there are other people's memories in Sora's heart, and a tie begins to form between the Journal and the Book of Prophecies. In the BBS secret ending, Ansem the Wise mentions recording data and putting inside of Sora while he sleeps, and this is brought up again by Data-Namine in Re:coded. That data is then obtained by Riku at the end of DDD.

And I agree with all of the other stuff brought up so far. Awesome thread, btw! :p
 

Antifa Lockhart

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I also feel like Re:coded gets a lot of hate for not being important to the story, when it actually is. The tragic events of Days and BBS are finally addressed by Data-Namine revealing that there are other people's memories in Sora's heart, and a tie begins to form between the Journal and the Book of Prophecies. In the BBS secret ending, Ansem the Wise mentions recording data and putting inside of Sora while he sleeps, and this is brought up again by Data-Namine in Re:coded. That data is then obtained by Riku at the end of DDD.

Honestly, this has been happening since 2004 with CoM. Gamers see a game they deem unnecessary and ignore it or throw up on it. The focus on this shifts every few years, though. Even now re:coded hate is giving way to X hate.
 

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I'll admit, I had that time where I gave Kairi a lot of flak but as I've gotten older, I don't really complain about anyone anymore.


As for how I feel, it's pretty much been said. Eraqus gets a lot of flak for being taken out so easily and seeming so wrong. Terra gets it because he fought Eraqus and struck him down (because apparently they forget MX's manipulation), same old same old. One thing, though, is all the flak in the scene where Sora finally finds Riku again in KH2 after Kairi is like "this IS Riku, just close your eyes"


Almost everyone I've encountered in the past call Sora a stupid, whiney little baby because of that when he had no real reaction to seeing Kairi not long before. And someone said it nicely, once. He had known Kairi was safe after the end of KH1. She was back in Destiny Islands. Riku, on the other hand, he hadn't the faintest idea. Had not heard from him since they closed the door. No peace of mind knowing he was alright, kept in the dark. For all he knew he was dead. So yeah, that's his best friend in the world(s) of course he's going to have a moment of joy that drives him to tears.
 

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I totally agree on Ansem the Wise. He's done morally questionable things, but it's not like the game is even trying to gloss over those, like it probably will with Axel. He's an interesting character, a good man that was betrayed and lost everything of his once bright, beautiful life. Seeing someone buckle down and do anything to fight their way back was really cool, especially since he knew what he was doing was wrong the entire time, but he was following the anger and hatred in his heart until he couldn't anymore.

Also, Kairi. She's written into some bad situations, but she certainly doesn't lack personality or emotional drive, and she's definitely not useless or unnecessary.

The main problem I see with Ansem the Wise is that unlike Riku, whose quest for redemption gets much screentime and coverage, his quest is less shown and thus less known by large swaths of the fanbase. So far, we have seen only two instances (three if you count the indirect mention in Re: Coded) where Ansem the Wise's change of heart and attempts to make amends are brought to the forefront. One instance is in Blank Points when he speaks with Aqua and the second is at the regular ending of DDD when he speaks with Riku inside Sora's heart. Both of these instances are in games, while stated as important, that are not widely known to the larger fanbase.
Especially many dedicated Roxas- and Naminé-fans are thus still very sour and negative towards Ansem for treating them like dirt and denying them their right to exist.

In Kairi's case the main issue certainly lies with the writing and that she is made to fade into obscurity, although some fans also apparently feel like very often bringing Kairi up only in the topic of Sora's supposed love interest or other shipping-shenanigans, which of course brings more dislike around the corner.

You don't know how sick I am of Eraqus getting all his flak from fans.

He wasn't "absolute" because he thought it was fun; he was "absolute" because darkness is the main driving force behind everything wrong in the series so far, and he was never given a single reason to believe otherwise.

And while I agree that he should've communicated better with Ven and Terra, wouldn't "ending" them have still been a mercy compared to MX's plans for them?

On Eraqus I have more problems with Darkness-fanboys/girls trying to paint him as a bigger jerkass/threat than Xehanort. That is going way past any reasonable "critique" that can be leveled at him.

There is no doubt for a reasonable mind that trying to kill Ventus and then Terra too because he moved to prevent it was an assholish move and morally reprehensible, yet not only did Eraqus act out of despair and fear rather than malice, Eraqus did only one reprehensible thing while Xehanort commits them 24/7 times a week.

---

I also agree with the notion that the BBS-Trio in general gets too much flak, although I feel out of the three Terra has it the worst.
 

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I also agree with the notion that the BBS-Trio in general gets too much flak, although I feel out of the three Terra has it the worst.

THIS. While I don't like Terra that much due mostly to the fact that he should've seen Xehanort's plan coming a mile away, and never bothered to question why his friends are tracking him down before immediately opposing them, the entire trio are all very strong well developed characters that I don't think get enough credit for their inclusion in the plot--Aqua especially.

Also, one thing I think gets far too much flak is KH2's prologue. Despite going on about a half-hour longer than it really should, I think it's an excellent beginning. After all, this was the first time Roxas was introduced, and I don't think it could've been done much better. Over the course of that mini-plot-arc I really started to get a sense for Roxas' personality and the relevancy of his existence to people like Axel and DiZ; and that was as someone who was completely new to KH! The minigames do a great job of subtly teaching you about things like ground combos, ariel combos, and parrying. The only part that really felt like a waste of time was finding the "seven wonders"...Seriously, what was the point?
 

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I think the thing about KH2's prologue is that Roxas' character could have been expanded upon over the course of the game. Instead we get some 2 hours of the character, have him disappear entirely for a long time, and then have him pop up for a few scenes nearing the end of the game. It could have been done a lot more graceully and it wouldn't have felt like padding.

On that topic I think Roxas gets unfair flak for being "whiny" in the prologue. I think it pretty accurately depicts how a teenager would react to that kind of siituation. I mean, having all these characters dangle information in front of you without any intention of telling you anything is pretty frustrating for the players aswell. What went through my head throughout the prologue was "just tell me what's going on dammit".
 

Grono

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THIS. While I don't like Terra that much due mostly to the fact that he should've seen Xehanort's plan coming a mile away, and never bothered to question why his friends are tracking him down before immediately opposing them, the entire trio are all very strong well developed characters that I don't think get enough credit for their inclusion in the plot--Aqua especially.

Also, one thing I think gets far too much flak is KH2's prologue. Despite going on about a half-hour longer than it really should, I think it's an excellent beginning. After all, this was the first time Roxas was introduced, and I don't think it could've been done much better. Over the course of that mini-plot-arc I really started to get a sense for Roxas' personality and the relevancy of his existence to people like Axel and DiZ; and that was as someone who was completely new to KH! The minigames do a great job of subtly teaching you about things like ground combos, ariel combos, and parrying. The only part that really felt like a waste of time was finding the "seven wonders"...Seriously, what was the point?

The second part is absolutely right! For me, I, personally, got much more of a reaction out of Roxas' story over these 6 days instead of his inclusion in 358/2 Days! Kingdom Hearts II is a severely flawed game, but Roxas' role probably couldn't have been done better in the beginning.

Other things I think get too much flak? Ventus, since I liked his character enough, and I thought he could be kind of a bad-ass when it came between his friends, and Aqua, since she definitely is the most solid, most human character in the game. On the other hand, i think Terra gets too little. I hate every aspect of Terra; his character's pacing, motivations, dialogue, voice acting, ambitions, actions, everything! The ending of Terra's story mostly doesn't bother me, until we get to the secret ending, where he is giving the most emotionless performance I have ever heard portrayed from an actor before. Seriously, that voice actor is worse than the main character of Birdemic at points.

EDIT: tl;dr Roxas is bae, Aqua and Ventus are solid, Terra is cancer on a stick
 

BlackOsprey

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EDIT: tl;dr Roxas is bae, Aqua and Ventus are solid, Terra is cancer on a stick
Ain't that the truth. XD

One thing that I haven't seen on here yet is Sora's personality. Especially now that we have a direct and constant contrast with his foil, Riku, a lot of people have taken to calling him "dumb," "childish," and "far too care-free." Well... other than a couple of times when it was way overdone in DDD, I don't see the problem with this. The games themselves have said that he's a child at heart, and if I recall, Nomura said Sora's based on his own childhood idea of an ideal hero. He takes things in stride, doesn't antagonize over problems, has an idealistic and positive outlook on everything. Is it unlikely that a normal teenager would be like that? Yeah, but that's what makes the guy special, doesn't it?

Besides, I figure it's necessary to have something to balance out Riku's more FF-hero persona.
 

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I will probably catch a lot of flack for this, but...

Ice Cream Beat.

While the first game's version was admittedly a little flawed, the 2.5 version is fine. I really think that a lot of people just have it in their heads that it's impossible and they get too easily frustrated, two feelings which combine to basically make it impossible to win.
 

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Man, don't even. I used to hate Sora because of his personality. It's what initially drove me to Roxas. As I've gotten older, I don't care so much. Sometimes, though, sometimes I'm just like "...Sora, I swear to god."

He CAN be a bit of an airhead at times. For example, what do you do if you don't know how a computer works? Pound the s*** out of it, naturally. And that was AFTER being told that it's a delicate piece of equipment and could be crucial to learning about Ansem!
 
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