Changes to 358/2 Days Cutscenes



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Draxem

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Something interesting I just noticed whilst watching the japanese version of the 358/2 days movie. In the original game when Roxas first falls asleep Xemnas says something along the lines of "So sleep has taken you once again", obvious reference to his connection to Ventus. However in the remake, this line is completely absent, Xemnas does not stand alone with Roxas and the scene ends as Saix leaves. I think it's peculiar that they'd remove such a line. Anyone else notice anything similar in the 'movie'?
 
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axel95

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Interesting. My best best guess is that the line was put in there to hint at BBS, and since BBS has since been released, they decided to remove it. I know this makes no sense, but it's the best I could come up with.
 

dlppictures

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I just saw that scene in both versions to see what you meant.
And since I know a little japanese, I noticed that the talk right before Xemnas says "So, sleep has taken you yet again..." is also excluded in HD.

Here is the entire scenes dialouge from the DS version. An * means the line is not in HD.

*Saïx: "Naminé must have begun her work..."
Xemnas: "Will he wake from this?"
Saïx: "I am told he will - provided she strips the hero of all his memories."
Xemnas: "Then much hinges on Castle Oblivion."
Saïx: "We needn't stop collecting hearts. Number XIV has gained power over the Keyblade, just as we intended. Xion can fill Roxas's shoes for the time being."
*Xemnas: "And the chamber? Have you found it?"
*Saïx: "No, sir. I would say progress is slow...if we had actually made any."
*Xemnas: "So, sleep has taken you yet again."


The scene in DS (At 1:16)
The scene in HD (At 1:13)
 

ajmrowland

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That is interesting. I should think that with all the teasing the series does us, even with BBS already out, they should've left that in for the new players.

On the other hand, if you're going to have a mystery, each hint needs room to breathe. In that case, the new players may be the reason it was taken out. Doesn't make sense.
 

Draxem

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My theory is that they're trying to define the two different halves that make up Xemnas, perhaps they didn't want to have so much Terra or MX showing through.
 

gamerobber7

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I just saw that scene in both versions to see what you meant.
And since I know a little japanese, I noticed that the talk right before Xemnas says "So, sleep has taken you yet again..." is also excluded in HD.

Here is the entire scenes dialouge from the DS version. An * means the line is not in HD.

*Saïx: "Naminé must have begun her work..."
Xemnas: "Will he wake from this?"
Saïx: "I am told he will - provided she strips the hero of all his memories."
Xemnas: "Then much hinges on Castle Oblivion."
Saïx: "We needn't stop collecting hearts. Number XIV has gained power over the Keyblade, just as we intended. Xion can fill Roxas's shoes for the time being."
*Xemnas: "And the chamber? Have you found it?"
*Saïx: "No, sir. I would say progress is slow...if we had actually made any."
*Xemnas: "So, sleep has taken you yet again."


The scene in DS (At 1:16)
The scene in HD (At 1:13)
I find it odd that they would take out a mention of the Chamber of Waking. Are the other mentions of it still intact?
 

Jesus

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I would think that taking out the references of the Chamber of Sleep would affect the story though, how else would be know about Ventus' sleeping place?
 

ajmrowland

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^The one scene in KH2FM? There is a conversation between Zexion, and Hidden Xigbar in which the latter says there are two chambers; one of sleep, and one of awakening.

Though I'll agree that it really should have more buildup than just the one scene there.

Is Axel searching Castle Oblivion still a subplot in HD?
 

dlppictures

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I find it odd that they would take out a mention of the Chamber of Waking. Are the other mentions of it still intact?
Is Axel searching Castle Oblivion still a subplot in HD?
I just finished spending, like, 5 hours trying to find all scenes in HD featuring Xemnas, Xigbar or Saïx, and then comparing them with their DS counterparts. And another hour making this post.
And for the most part, all lines are intact, with only padding being removed.
E.g. Xemnas introduces Kingdom Hearts; "The time has arrived. (Look to the skies!) There hangs the heart of all hearts - Kingdom Hearts - Shining down on us at last."

Other little differences include; different music in scenes, Characters standing different places/different positions.

Here is all that I wrote down if interested.
Spoiler Spoiler Show
 

gamerobber7

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I just finished spending, like, 5 hours trying to find all scenes in HD featuring Xemnas, Xigbar or Saïx, and then comparing them with their DS counterparts. And another hour making this post.
And for the most part, all lines are intact, with only padding being removed.
E.g. Xemnas introduces Kingdom Hearts; "The time has arrived. (Look to the skies!) There hangs the heart of all hearts - Kingdom Hearts - Shining down on us at last."

Other little differences include; different music in scenes, Characters standing different places/different positions.

Here is all that I wrote down if interested.
Spoiler Spoiler Show
Thanks for the research! :) It looks like not much was changed except for the scene from Day 26 but it's not too much.
 

FudgemintGuardian

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At first I was going to say that maybe Xemnas' line about "once again you sleep" or however he said it was taken out because maybe Nomura didn't want to imply that Xemnas has some of Terra's memories.
But since the lines about the chamber was taken out as well I can only assume that maybe they thought newcomers would get confused about it, or something. It might have been left in if the Re-mixs were in order of release.
 

ajmrowland

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At first I was going to say that maybe Xemnas' line about "once again you sleep" or however he said it was taken out because maybe Nomura didn't want to imply that Xemnas has some of Terra's memories.
But since the lines about the chamber was taken out as well I can only assume that maybe they thought newcomers would get confused about it, or something. It might have been left in if the Re-mixs were in order of release.
According the quotes dlppictures posted, the chamber is still mentioned at least when Saix is talking to Axel, so at least one mystery is still added. Also, since MX was present when Ven collapsed, I wouldn't say Xemnas would appear to have Terras memories It'd still be ambiguous.

Or were you saying him having either sets of memories would be too much?

Either way, at this point, it's inconsequential. Either they're giving new members enough mysteries to palette in a third installment, or they're trying to keep things ambiguous without having to retcon something like how Xemnas may know Ven is asleep.
 

Sephiroth0812

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According the quotes dlppictures posted, the chamber is still mentioned at least when Saix is talking to Axel, so at least one mystery is still added. Also, since MX was present when Ven collapsed, I wouldn't say Xemnas would appear to have Terras memories It'd still be ambiguous.

Or were you saying him having either sets of memories would be too much?

Either way, at this point, it's inconsequential. Either they're giving new members enough mysteries to palette in a third installment, or they're trying to keep things ambiguous without having to retcon something like how Xemnas may know Ven is asleep.
It would remain ambigious indeed, as Terra was present when Ven fell into a coma after his staccato of questions when MX brought him to Land of Departure while MX caused Ven's collapsing in the first place by creating Vanitas. Could go either way.

Since references to the chamber of waking remain inside the cutscenes at other places apparently (and Xion turning into Ven is also retained), I could imagine they took out the "sleep took you yet again"-line of Xemnas because it can be seen as ambigious in the other way too, regarding the stubbornly persisting interpretation in some circles that Roxas and Ventus are indeed the exact same entity despite it having been stated so often by now that Ven and Roxas are different beings.
 

FudgemintGuardian

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Okay...the reply things aren't working.
Anyway, yeah since both MX and Terra have seen Ven collapse/go comatose Xemnas' line could go either way. So I'm thinking that since the line can be like"Okay, whose memories is he going by?" it was removed because... *scratches head* Yeah I got nothing. They probably just did it to see if anyone notices. *laughs*

Okay so Saix still mentions it to Axel. That's good. Weird though that I missed that. I read the whole thing!

Also... There are people that think Ven and Roxas are the same person?!
 

ajmrowland

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It would remain ambigious indeed, as Terra was present when Ven fell into a coma after his staccato of questions when MX brought him to Land of Departure while MX caused Ven's collapsing in the first place by creating Vanitas. Could go either way.

Since references to the chamber of waking remain inside the cutscenes at other places apparently (and Xion turning into Ven is also retained), I could imagine they took out the "sleep took you yet again"-line of Xemnas because it can be seen as ambigious in the other way too, regarding the stubbornly persisting interpretation in some circles that Roxas and Ventus are indeed the exact same entity despite it having been stated so often by now that Ven and Roxas are different beings.
Exactly, but my thing with it is that Xemnas remembers somehow in a way that may be changed for KH3 or something, resulting in them taking the line out maybe due to continuity.

It's logical that Xemnas regained many memories, starting with the scene in DDD and maybe earlier. I'm certain of that, but what he remembers and when he remembers it is something that may be subject to change in this case.

Otherwise, the lines absence is nothing but conspicuous to us veterans.
 
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