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chasespicer056

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manipulating Xehanortification?

The ongoing assumption I've noticed is that in KH3, all the Xehanorts will cohesively work together and help Master Xehanort reignite the Keyblade War.

BUT WAIT

What if the members of the new Organization don't turn out to be so loyal?

In fact, before they reunited in KH3D, the members had distinct goals (Xemnas wanted to create a new world, Ansem wanted raw power from darkness, Isa wanted to overthrow the Organization with Lea, etc.)

Theoretically... could some of the members suddenly regain full control of themselves.

It's been done before... by Riku...



Now his circumstance was different since he willingly took on a form of Xehanort rather than be forcefully possessed by it, but even so, I feel like his triumph over Ansem throughout COM and KH2 gives hope to this possibility.

Riku found a way to use Xehanort's darkness without being controlled by it.

Imagine Isa suddenly returning to his old self and using his newfound power to return to his former goal of overthrowing the Organization.

Imagine Xemnas suddenly falling under Terra's control and using Xehanort's added power to destroy the old master.

What do you guys think? Is it possible we could see something along these lines in KH3?
 

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If they do something like that, I imagine it going out something like this scene up until 1:30
[video=youtube;YvJCVLIUH0g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvJCVLIUH0g[/video]

Cause I'm sure Terra and Eraqus would have a plan up their sleeves. But I imagine it happening someway into the climax where it seems like Xehanort might be stopped, but then Xehanort manages to stop them and regain control very easily. And then big epic battle between guardians of light and seekers of darkenss and boom comes the X-Blade. And from then on, who knows.

That's the kind of scenario I have in my head at the moment at least. The way that I see it is that the X-Blade will be forged no matter what.
 

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manipulating Xehanortification?
Sounds promising.

The ongoing assumption I've noticed is that in KH3, all the Xehanorts will cohesively work together and help Master Xehanort reignite the Keyblade War.
I concur with this.

In fact, before they reunited in KH3D, the members had distinct goals (Xemnas wanted to create a new world, Ansem wanted raw power from darkness, Isa wanted to overthrow the Organization with Lea, etc.)
You're right about that. They're even as far as egocentric and extreme; they could care less about selling their dignity and being traitors as long as they get what they want:

Ansem SoD, Xemnas and Xehanort all have one thing in common; they want to build an ideal world be it the cost. Ansem thinks an ideal world is filled with darkness, Xemnas thinks it's all about negative emotions making everything alive and MX thinks about equilibrium. Even though they all have the same goal, the idea behind them can differ and cause them to collide at last hour.

Xigbar wants a Keyblade (I'm willing to bet he'll want the Xblade because he knows and is witness to its amazingly omnipotent power).

Saix wants to overthrow the Organization for God knows what reason.

They all have a personal reason to become the most powerful in the universe and risk their lives if it means overthrowing someone as powerful as MX. It's a classic that, at last hour, internal problems between the evil faction start boiling, so I wouldn't doubt this scenario, of course, after the Xblade is forged.

But in all honesty, that was me exercising your theory. With how I observed Ansem SoD's and Xemnas' behavior when being close to MX, it's as if they were behaving as Young Xehanort; they were being directly controlled by him. I wouldn't doubt they can break from his clutches in an occasion, seeing as how MX must have his limits, because controlling various hosts at the same time could prove difficult.

It's been done before... by Riku...
Good point.

Now his circumstance was different since he willingly took on a form of Xehanort rather than be forcefully possessed by it, but even so, I feel like his triumph over Ansem throughout COM and KH2 gives hope to this possibility.
I was going to say that his the same case as Xigbar, but no, it's VERY different. Like you said, Riku assumed the darkness inside him, which was Xehanort's seed. Meanwhile, Xigbar WILLINGLY let himself be possessed, get Nortified, have a more direct link with Xehanort.

What do you guys think? Is it possible we could see something along these lines in KH3?
Like I said; after the forging of the Xblade, I'm not having a hard time the Seekers of Darkness exercising their own ends at last hour. It could play as: Light and Darkness collide, Xblade starts forging, they keep fighting, it keeps forging and, finally, it's complete. Everyone pauses to admire its power, Xehanort makes one of his extensive monologues, goes to it, but, at the same time, each Nortified person remembers their goal and also try get to it, the heroes are alarmed, they try to stop them, they all get interrupted, except for Xehanort and a select few of the Norts, he realizes they're behind him, he uses his influence on them to paralyze them, he grabs the weapon, a light show starts, another of his extensive monologues, talk about apocalyptic times arise, so forth...
 

chasespicer056

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Cause I'm sure Terra and Eraqus would have a plan up their sleeves. But I imagine it happening someway into the climax where it seems like Xehanort might be stopped, but then Xehanort manages to stop them and regain control very easily. And then big epic battle between guardians of light and seekers of darkenss and boom comes the X-Blade. And from then on, who knows.
I'm wondering if MX would even stop them at that point. The man's not omnipotent, look how surprised he was when Terra's armor sprung to life. He might not be able to control his group once they break free.

For the sake of a final showdown between Sora and MX though, I could see him gaining control of the X-Blade and escaping into Kingdom Hearts before his Organization succeeds in turning on him.

But in all honesty, that was me exercising your theory. With how I observed Ansem SoD's and Xemnas' behavior when being close to MX, it's as if they were behaving as Young Xehanort; they were being directly controlled by him. I wouldn't doubt they can break from his clutches in an occasion, seeing as how MX must have his limits, because controlling various hosts at the same time could prove difficult.
Good point. I mean, it does seem like 3D retconned any previous notion of Terra/Eraqus influence in Ansem and Xemnas and made it seem that the two were acting as Young Xehanort wanted. Though unexplained scenes like the one with Xemnas and Aqua's armor make me wonder if Nomura will have Terra/Eraqus pull a deus ex machina.

I was going to say that his the same case as Xigbar, but no, it's VERY different. Like you said, Riku assumed the darkness inside him, which was Xehanort's seed. Meanwhile, Xigbar WILLINGLY let himself be possessed, get Nortified, have a more direct link with Xehanort.
Nice distinction.

Like I said; after the forging of the Xblade, I'm not having a hard time the Seekers of Darkness exercising their own ends at last hour. It could play as: Light and Darkness collide, Xblade starts forging, they keep fighting, it keeps forging and, finally, it's complete. Everyone pauses to admire its power, Xehanort makes one of his extensive monologues, goes to it, but, at the same time, each Nortified person remembers their goal and also try get to it, the heroes are alarmed, they try to stop them, they all get interrupted, except for Xehanort and a select few of the Norts, he realizes they're behind him, he uses his influence on them to paralyze them, he grabs the weapon, a light show starts, another of his extensive monologues, talk about apocalyptic times arise, so forth...
I could definitely see this happening. Also, I could even see something like an internal faction of the Organization (say Xigbar, Isa, and a few other unknowns unite) suddenly unveiling their treachery to attempt to kill the old man and take control.
 

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Good point. I mean, it does seem like 3D retconned any previous notion of Terra/Eraqus influence in Ansem and Xemnas and made it seem that the two were acting as Young Xehanort wanted. Though unexplained scenes like the one with Xemnas and Aqua's armor make me wonder if Nomura will have Terra/Eraqus pull a deus ex machina.
I can see it happen with Ansem SoD, seeing as how it's Terra's heart; he and Master Eraqus can exercise force on him, but Xemnas? I presume he got his own heart while he lived as a Nobody (now a complete being).

I could definitely see this happening. Also, I could even see something like an internal faction of the Organization (say Xigbar, Isa, and a few other unknowns unite) suddenly unveiling their treachery to attempt to kill the old man and take control.
Like I said, I can only see this happening when the Xblade is complete. It's also possible that, since he has control over them, he can undo that and make them themselves again any time he wants. I can practically picture them trying to overturn him, he gets what he wants and de-Nortifies them, leaving them injured, seeing as how he was a big part of their hearts and being.
 

chasespicer056

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I can see it happen with Ansem SoD, seeing as how it's Terra's heart; he and Master Eraqus can exercise force on him, but Xemnas? I presume he got his own heart while he lived as a Nobody (now a complete being).
Xemnas is more iffy. It depends on if he inherited a lot of memories from Terra and Eraqus. I have the sense that, sort of like Sora in KH2 and Days, Terra's memories got split up a bit between Ansem SOD and Xemnas. If so, then they would have a shot at retaking Xemnas.

Like I said, I can only see this happening when the Xblade is complete. It's also possible that, since he has control over them, he can undo that and make them themselves again any time he wants. I can practically picture them trying to overturn him, he gets what he wants and de-Nortifies them, leaving them injured, seeing as how he was a big part of their hearts and being.
I could definitely see that happening.
 

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Xemnas is more iffy. It depends on if he inherited a lot of memories from Terra and Eraqus. I have the sense that, sort of like Sora in KH2 and Days, Terra's memories got split up a bit between Ansem SOD and Xemnas. If so, then they would have a shot at retaking Xemnas.
Hmm... Good point. Memories are part of what makes a being, so yeah, sounds plausible.

I could definitely see that happening.
Denortification could work like Dilan's and Even's case; they're still recovering.

And now that I think about it, it's possible both of them are like that because Xehanort planted their seeds and, since they're returning to their original selves, the process could be altered because of an alien factor; the Nort Seeds.
 

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While a trapped heart regaining total control would be incredibly difficult (if not downright impossible), I do strongly agree that Xehanortification does not result in control without the possibility of failure in some form. One particular example that comes to mind is Terra's resistance to MX completely taking over his body during BBS, which is actually synonymous to Riku's resistance to XH.

Another example (which is more of a longshot) is the possibility that Terra's heart influenced XH to go to DI, presumably in search of Riku.
 

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I don't really see how Ansem SOD or Xemnas could turn on MX. They know they are doomed to be destroyed by Sora once they go back to their timelines, so they know that all their individual goals are futile.

Plus, this time travel stuff was all Ansem SOD's idea. After MX failed in BBS, he's the one who implanted the idea of the organization in YMX's head so that Xemnas would create it. The only reason Ansem SOD winds up jumping to his goal in KH1 is because he forgot about time travel by possessing Riku, which made him experience things in real time.

edit:

the only Xehanorts we know abot that I can see betraying MX are Braig and Isa. Moreso Isa, because of Lea. Not so much Braig because he's extremely dedicated to MX, "I'm already half Xehanort. *smiles*"

If Vanitas winds up being a Xehanort, and it's a present version of him, maybe he could pull something related to how the novel potrayed him. he could at the last moment refuse to be a pawn or something.

if any of the other darknesses are existing in the present timeline with time travel, they could also do something
 
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One particular example that comes to mind is Terra's resistance to MX completely taking over his body during BBS, which is actually synonymous to Riku's resistance to XH.
These are all good examples, seeing as how he, directly using his heart, tried to conquer someone else's. With this in mind, the Xehanortification process he uses with everyone else seems like an indirect means, as if he temporarily takes control of a hosts, does what he does inside its heart and goes back. What he did to Terra and what Ansem SoD did to Riku was forcing their hearts inside their body and trying to become the alpha in the shell, making the smaller one succumbing. Meanwhile, in the cases of Xigbar, Saix and those other peeps, it's as if he literally spreads seeds on them and waits for them to flourish.

Another example (which is more of a longshot) is the possibility that Terra's heart influenced XH to go to DI, presumably in search of Riku.
It IS Xehanort's and Terra's heart, so I wouldn't doubt the latter influencing Ansem to try and warn Riku that Xehanort is trying to open the world's door and that he should be prepared for that.

I don't really see how Ansem SOD or Xemnas could turn on MX. They know they are doomed to be destroyed by Sora once they go back to their timelines, so they know that all their individual goals are futile.
Ah, yes... Time travel, we forgot about that new plot element. If they try to kill Xehanort, he'll just send them to their timelines and perish, but Xigbar and Saix aren't affected by this, seeing as how they weren't gathered by the means of time, correct?
 
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