BlackLivesMatter. Lets Hear Your POV



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Dari

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DISCLAIMER:
The forums a couple years ago has had multiple conversations about "the N-word" well fast forward to 2016 mostly allocated in the United States. Where issues regarding race, social injustice, and equality at essentially all at their boiling points. The purpose of the Opening Post is for purposes to purely inform and extend an invitation to openly discuss and deliberate each's own individual perspectives in each component of said discussion. That being said, my comments and opinions will most likely follow this post and not be included in the OP. This isn't intelligent discussion, but it's always appreciated to express opinions in tolerance and appreciation of your fellow member's own subjective opinions without reaching incredibly far to intentionally issue malice or ill-intent towards any individual in particular.

It should be noted, that there are several tons of other examples, but I've elected to share some old and more recent ones in the OP, if you'd like to touch on anything that I have missed, have at it!

I am no master at being completely objective so please bare with me.

#BlackLivesMatter

Origin:
July 13th 2013 [3 years ago at the time of this post July 27, 2016]
A rally first following the prolific shooting of african-american teen Trayvon Martin. It's founding took place within the communities to which Martin belonged to. It has since gained recognition following the deaths of two other prolific black men, Michael Brown of Ferguson Missouri and Eric Garner of New York City.
Founders: Alicia Garza, Patrisse Cullors, and Opal Tometi

Purpose:
-Echoing 60 years ago, it is a movement that showcases African-Americans in protest against police brutality and shootings against African-Americans. It highlights racial profiling, prejudices, and racial inequality both social and systemic.
-Claiming affiliations to "Occupy Wall Street" "Pan-Africanism" "LGBTQ Social Movements" "The 1980s Black Feminism Movement" and "The Anti-Apartheid Movement".
-The movement is encouraging the conversations and involvement of the black communities in how they are ultimately viewed, and treated by the society, system, and environment surrounding them; A conversation extended to their children.
-There is no definitive "Hierarchy" but most protests are organized by each's respective communities, often to illustrate non-violent resistance (in the best-case scenario, there have been riots in Ferguson in 2014) before law-enforcement.
-To actively enlist a proposal of reform within law-enforcement from it's current over-aggressive tacts and practices.

Misconception/Confusion:
-Many have openly challenged and openly dismissed the nature of the movement, none more prolific than Rudy Giuliani in a recent interview.
-Many will argue the equal importance in the same light that other non-white lives as well as white live are equally important, generating the counter motion "All Lives Matter"
-It should be noted that the term "All Lives Matter" uses a structure that compares that the lives of african-americans are equally at risk as other non-whites, as well as whites in the face of police brutality, systemic racism, racial inequality, and other injustice(s) in face of the court/legal system.
-The most common criticism denotes the movement as a massive form of "paranoia" and stating dismisses the idea that many of the inequalities the movement expresses concern for simply do not exist.


Notable Examples:
 

Chuman

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i have nothing else to say besides the fact that, in the year 2016 where we have a black president, there shouldnt HAVE to be a movement to say black lives matter. this should be something that's already known; something taken for granted.

instead we see another death every week and some prick on Fox News stuttering about how PoC are the racist ones. smh
 

Divine Past

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This movement is more about pointing out PoC have it worse in terms of police/government people than people who aren't. But like every movement there were extremist that give the group a worse name.
 

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Black lives matter is an important topic and should be discussed, but some real shitheads in my state have used the movement for extremely disruptive protests. People should assume that the police are good people unless shown otherwise. People are people, don't harass some cops over what some other cops have done in DIFFERENT STATES
 

Dari

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I'll give a few of my reasons for speaking on the topic and some reform that has happened to myself, friends, family.

One of the members from this site that I have met, has lost a friend and brother in St. Louis Missouri to the over-aggression of police. Most cases of when an african-american male is either shot dead or brutalized to a point where they are confirmed dead shortly after, the media feels it necessary to issue a full report on the background of the victims. Labeling the individuals as "thugs" "vagrants and/or "miscreants" is a form of victim blaming. Most news reports by Fox News are notorious for promoting racism and race-baiting almost unselfishly.

Nobody says it better than Bill Maher more recently about the march in Dallas, which ultimately lead to the shooting of police officers.

The Charleston Church Shooting.
Don't even get me started...I knew everyone that was killed personally, my childhood was spent in South Carolina, in fact the Reverend married my parents back in April of 2001. I took a brief trip in June (Of this year) in memorial for the 1 year anniversary of their passing. While not directly relating to police brutality in particular, this shooting demonstrated an active nod to hatred and racism, as proclaimed by Dylan Roof, the gunman himself. I said to myself at one point can we constantly dismiss and say that this happens to everyone? When has an african american gone into a predominantly white church or a jewish synagog and opened fire?

A misconception about when "Black Lives Matter" is uttered, does not immediately or in any way discredit that the lives of other minorities or even white, are less important, thats an absurd claim if not a bandwagon kind of mentality. It is a distinction that brings emphasis to a point, that perhaps the lives of black men and women in the respective communities suffer from certain inequalities and prejudices that are throughly ingrained within society and the system as a whole. Ideology that AllLivesMatter as a counter-motion, slowly gaining momentum behind this is "Blue Lives Matter" which is beginning to rise in popularity after the shooting of police officers in Dallas almost two weeks ago. What is ironic about that is this, it places emphasis on the lives of police officers while not explicitly demeaning the lives of others simultaneously, if that is the case, does Black Lives Matter not...ring the same identical theme when talking about a specific group while not explicitly demeaning the value of others but rather raising awareness to the value and importance of the lives of said group?

Just...logic with me for a second here. Please?

In The State of NJ what I have seen the Police do.
-In 2008 I was dressed in full Burger King Uniform walking home from a closing shift, at a cross walk, I was stopped at 12 in the morning. Questioned about what I was doing, where I was coming from (he chose to ignore the fact I was in full uniform). The officer then proceeded to tell me that there was a report of someone fitting my description that just robbed the convenient store a block from where I was crossing the street.

-July 25th 2016 (two days ago at the time of this post.) A friend of mine got into a fight at a night club. He was a minority, I won't say what minority, but he was detained by the officers here in Brick and escorted out. (If I can find the video I would link it) Essentially he looked over his shoulder on his way out, and the officers examined this as a form of a resistance and proceeded to basically whisk him by the arm and slam his face into a wall. I just worked with this man a day ago, he looks like hammered shit but that was a very real experience. I would also like to take a moment to state he has had no criminal background or anything that calls his character into question, at that point it is an observation and analysis of the officer's instincts, reaction, and action taken.
 

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I'm personally under the impression that people typically regard black people as the more dangerous criminals, because statistically they commit the more dangerous crimes in America; which then leads to people being scared around any random black person that is around them and perpetuates the idea (to police that they need to be treated harshly, because of reasons I'm sure you guys can imagine). Which is going to lead to more policing in black communities, more hostility from the people in these communities and more problems, thus self-fulfilling and perpetuating the problem.

What needs to happen is a couple of things in my opinion:

Black people need to stop acting foolish, and glorifying crime, and violence
promote education in the black community
Many white people need to stop, TYPICALLY, regarding black people as more dangerous than any other race
The same especially goes for police officers
People need to understand that because it is statically true that blacks in America are more prone to committing crime does not justify regarding black people with more hostility or guardedness than the average person
and BLM needs to do be more vocal, not about the police shootings, but promoting the idea that young black males should especially not partake in
illicit (?) behavior.
Literally all of this, the BLM movement can get started and it's a bit odd that this seemingly isn't being discussed.
 
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Ven_Roxas

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While I won't be one to discredit BLM, I will say some of what I've seen the people affiliated with the movement do is exactly what they are protesting. The only example I can think of is recently in my hometown, there was a protest where a major highway was blocked. The person who organized the protest (which also marched through downtown) was interviewed and stated that they were trying to hold the police accountable. I was confused and asked my family if there was a shooting or some kind of police brutality. Turns out there wasn't. They wanted to hold the police in my hometown accountable for what happened halfway across the country? Isn't that just holding an entire group of people accountable for the actions of a few? Doesn't that encourage stereotypes and profiling? While it was a "peaceful" protest, I know I would have been severely upset had I been halted on a busy highway due to this (as plenty of my friends had posted on Facebook).

My other issue doesn't stem from protests or BLM, it stems from the way our society is. In my profession, different races and socioeconomic backgrounds are studied heavily among our clients, all for the purpose of collecting data. All the paperwork we fill out in this country asks for race and gender. While you can opt to not include that info, it still is agrivating. this aspect of our identity being used to classify us and make us just another statistic adds to the issue of race and inequality. It causes us to approach certain people certain ways because of the generalizations that can be drawn from data. While the data might "show" a that we should expect something specific from a specific group, it just adds for eh generalizations that fuel racism in some cases.

My point is, the growing issue of race, in my opinion, is fueled by the inappropriate approaches that some members of BLM use, and the constant segregation used to collect data and generalize certain groups of people (a method that's been around long before i was born and continues without a foreseeable end). I feel as though the effort to create equality in this country seems to end with less equality being granted nowadays.
 

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I think the reason violence against police has begun to rise is because the system is obviously rigged to protect police officers who commit crimes. In the cases of most of these awful shootings of black men (and some women), the officers in question barely get a slap on the wrist after they murdered innocent people, acquitted by the judge, etc. It's infuriating to watch police officers treated like they are above the law, so I'm not really surprised by the violent responses that are happening now. And other police officers who haven't done anything, but "stand together" with the bad ones against justice are disgusting.
 

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Y'all fall into Victor's traps easily.

Edit: Since this thread is about dialogue, please try to respond to it with a bit more effort.
 

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I don't agree with the movement. I'm sure the people within the community have good intentions but shouting,"We want dead cops" on the street isn't very progressive.
 

Chuman

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I don't agree with the movement. I'm sure the people within the community have good intentions but shouting,"We want dead cops" on the street isn't very progressive.
if you think that's what the movement is about then you are entirely mistaken. its about how black people and especially black youth are targeted by police and viewed as criminal and killed for doing nothing wrong, then the media twists it and calls them thugs.
 

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if you think that's what the movement is about then you are entirely mistaken. its about how black people and especially black youth are targeted by police and viewed as criminal and killed for doing nothing wrong, then the media twists it and calls them thugs.
I know it isn't, the main goal for BLM is to stop unarmed black people from being killed. I also don't think police are going out, deliberately looking for unarmed black people to shoot. Unarmed white people are also being killed by the police. We don't hear too often about that on the media.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings/#_=_

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2016/

Also keep in my mind that unarmed does not equal not dangerous. People are known to put up fights with police. It's similar to the "wage gap". There are other reasons to do with the situations than racism or sexism.

[video=youtube;mbpCxPE_dOY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbpCxPE_dOY[/video]

The facts do not fit the narrative and this woman proves it in this video when she says black queer people are being killed by the police at alarming rates.^^^

[video=youtube;unoBT8Te13g]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unoBT8Te13g[/video]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_qkvXLuGsc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTuf8wAtgkA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ge9pHidD8sc
 

Chuman

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I know it isn't, the main goal for BLM is to stop unarmed black people from being killed. I also don't think police are going out, deliberately looking for unarmed black people to shoot. Unarmed white people are also being killed by the police. We don't hear too often about that on the media.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings/#_=_

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2016/

Also keep in my mind that unarmed does not equal not dangerous. People are known to put up fights with police. It's similar to the "wage gap". There are other reasons to do with the situations than racism or sexism.

[video=youtube;mbpCxPE_dOY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbpCxPE_dOY[/video]

The facts do not fit the narrative and this woman proves it in this video when she says black queer people are being killed by the police at alarming rates.^^^

[video=youtube;unoBT8Te13g]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unoBT8Te13g[/video]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_qkvXLuGsc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTuf8wAtgkA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ge9pHidD8sc
those "activists" are not representative of BLM as a whole, just like the cops that murder unarmed and disabled men are not representative of the overall police force.
 

Tartarus

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Last time I checked, it's BlackLivesMatter, not OnlyBlackLivesMatter. Some people are incredibly tone-deaf. I've heard these same people say they want to go on Straight Pride Parades now.
 

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those "activists" are not representative of BLM as a whole, just like the cops that murder unarmed and disabled men are not representative of the overall police force.
I'm sure most of them were grouped together by Black Lives Matter organizations. I know the one in Toronto was but I'd have to look into the other ones.

https://twitter.com/BLM_TO/status/749696130003468288

Even then, unarmed white people and black people are killed by cops at around the same percentage, keeping in mind that black people do commit more crime despite making up less of the population. The more you deal with cops, the likelier stuff is going to happen/ Unarmed does not equal not dangerous. Because the person was unarmed, the cause should not be given to racism by default. The facts don't fit the narrative of the movement.

Also neverminding the fact that the movement was inspired by a convicted cop killer, Assata Shakur.
 

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I'm sure most of them were grouped together by Black Lives Matter organizations. I know the one in Toronto was but I'd have to look into the other ones.

https://twitter.com/BLM_TO/status/749696130003468288

Even then, unarmed white people and black people are killed by cops at around the same percentage, keeping in mind that black people do commit more crime despite making up less of the population. The more you deal with cops, the likelier stuff is going to happen/ Unarmed does not equal not dangerous. Because the person was unarmed, the cause should not be given to racism by default. The facts don't fit the narrative of the movement.

Also neverminding the fact that the movement was inspired by a convicted cop killer, Assata Shakur.
the movement began when black men were killed last year. you say "black people and white people are killed at similar rates" but looking at population percentages showing how many more white people than black people there are, it throws that shit excuse out the window.

saying that "black people commit more crime" and pushing the load entirely on black people is totally ignorant. i'm not saying there aren't BLM people who twist it to their own gain; 3 girls at UAlbany started a fight on a bus and claimed racial discrimination to try and dodge the charges, but the fact that racism against the black community is rampant enough that such a lie was believable, thats the real issue.

Sandra bland was not a criminal and the dashcam footage proved it, but i can't wait to hear your argument for her "suicide".
 

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the movement began when black men were killed last year. you say "black people and white people are killed at similar rates" but looking at population percentages showing how many more white people than black people there are, it throws that shit excuse out the window.

saying that "black people commit more crime" and pushing the load entirely on black people is totally ignorant. i'm not saying there aren't BLM people who twist it to their own gain; 3 girls at UAlbany started a fight on a bus and claimed racial discrimination to try and dodge the charges, but the fact that racism against the black community is rampant enough that such a lie was believable, thats the real issue.

Sandra bland was not a criminal and the dashcam footage proved it, but i can't wait to hear your argument for her "suicide".

The more you deal with police, the more you get into shit with them. That's the way it is. Black people do commit more crime even though making up a smaller percentage of the population. I also mentioned nothing about Sandra Bland.
 

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the movement began when black men were killed last year. you say "black people and white people are killed at similar rates" but looking at population percentages showing how many more white people than black people there are, it throws that shit excuse out the window.
Exactly.

saying that "black people commit more crime" and pushing the load entirely on black people is totally ignorant.
It's also a lie, because statistics show that black people do not commit more crime than white people. Or at least I’m thinking of that recent news story about Trump using a false Neo-Nazi statistic in an attempt to make black people out to have committed more crime than white people.
 
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