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BH6 World Too Ambitious?



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Launchpad

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I figured that this might be an interesting topic as long as people don't take criticism of the game personally. With the amazing recent trailers of KH3, I've found one little concern with the game. I'm of the opinion that San Fransokyo ain't lookin' too good. There's a reasonable explanation for it, I believe.

It isn't through any shortage of developer skill that the BH6 world is visually and conceptually falling short of our collective imaginations. Square was able to make a fully realized Pirates world, a gorgeous Toy Story level, and well, everything actually looks great so far. But Big Hero 6's level is just too ambitious of a concept to look good or feel equal to the source material. It was never a feasible goal for SE to make a giant futuristic city level in Kingdom Hearts 3. The amount of development time it would take to make a game that looks even comparable to Big Hero 6 would be extremely inappropriate and take as much time as any single modern Triple A game.

So what we have on our hands are rooftops that look bland, streets that look bland, and objectives that honestly do not look very fun in my opinion. Once you create a giant empty city, I suppose Superman-64 style ring minigames are the next logical step, right? Flying around on Baymax is the obvious addition and was probably the first thing the development team thought of, but since the graphics and detail aren't there on the city, not even flying around on Baymax looks fun. The level design is the ultimate culprit for all the issues here. Character models and animation are top notch, and the story concept is also very cool. Graphics don't typically bother me, but this level is just standing out like a sore thumb compared to everything else in the game.


What's especially strange about this is that for the longest time, urban environments were easier to create in game engines, and organic environments were a lot harder to realistically create, but Square has completely knocked the organic settings out of the park, and it's this city that looks quite bad. Now, at the end of the day, I'm not even mad about this. SE set such a high bar, and decided on BH6's inclusion long before logistical problems reared their ugly head. Regardless of any dips in quality, I trust Nomura's judgment on keeping it in. I'm just sure that this is going to be the one level that fell short of everything else.
 

metro96

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I tend to agree, although I think just adding a bunch of neon lighting to these buildings would do a lot of good, just so things don't seem so grey. It's never going to be quite what it could be b/c this isn't GTA or Spiderman and this is only section of a bigger game, but I think just *literally* making the city more vibrant would be great.

It would be fun to have NPC's walking around and the like, but considering what it took for the movie to get San Fransokyo to look like it did, it's no surprise the game won't reach those heights.

https://gizmodo.com/a-tour-of-san-fransokyo-the-hybrid-city-disney-built-f-1642066794

The top photo in this article does a good job of showing what I mean by more lights, and describes what it took to create the world for the movie.
 

AmaryllisMoth

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I'm being cautiously optimistic.

So far the BH6 footage has slightly underwhelmed me as well. The city looks pretty generic, and the lack of NPC is frustrating. What's the point of having a big city if there isn't anyone in it?
I don't mind the superman-style ring thing, though. (Honestly, I am a beast at Spyro Flying levels and so it doesn't particularly bother me having it in KH.)

The reason I am staying optimistic is because we really haven't seen too much yet. Nothing much outside a small section of battle space and cutscenes. It makes sense there would be no NPC in cutscenes and also in areas heavy with fighting. We have no idea what state the city is in when Sora drops in. For all we know there is currently chaos and everyone is already in hiding. So there was no chance for us to even see a lively vibrant city because it is in the midst of a chaotic battle. I could buy that reasoning.

I have a vague assumption based on nothing in particular that there are going to be "npc hubs" where they will devote more of the assets of the world. So maybe around the city we might see some more of those static cars driving around that you can kinda glimpse in the trailer, but more of the life is going to be in some "safe" zones where enemies don't spawn. Like a large courtyard/shopping mall, or the neighborhood around Hiro's aunt's restaurant if we go there, or just some street with a cable car or something zooming around.
There are little "safe hubs" in every world usually in past games with save spots and treasure chests or random NPC milling about so I have a feeling they might just expand on that a bit and have very generic areas of the city where the "life" is jam packed.
But outside of those areas, it will probably be a bit more empty.

Just my thoughts.

I never expected them to honestly pull off having a seamless giant city with a full economy of npc ai that functions properly and looks beautiful around every corner. So...as long as there is some personality SOMEWHERE in the city, I can settle for that and deal with most of the battles taking place in an emptier area.
 

UltimaXOmega

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San Fransokyo ruined TGS for me.


-Story wise, Data Riku is a pointless Seeker pick, especially over Xion or Roxas
-The world is extremely boring looking and despite all the bragging from Square about NPCs, none are seen
-Only 1 party member, really? I understand programming 6 or 7 party members for 1 Disney world is a bit much but we could have at least gotten Hiro and Go Go.
-The keyblade has a great design but Square decided to make it a boring copy Keyblade with no unique skills.

After 3 years, the world is looking to be the biggest wasted Disney world potential in the series.
 

Launchpad

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San Fransokyo ruined TGS for me.


-Story wise, Data Riku is a pointless Seeker pick, especially over Xion or Roxas
-The world is extremely boring looking and despite all the bragging from Square about NPCs, none are seen
-Only 1 party member, really? I understand programming 6 or 7 party members for 1 Disney world is a bit much but we could have at least gotten Hiro and Go Go.
-The keyblade has a great design but Square decided to make it a boring copy Keyblade with no unique skills.

After 3 years, the world is looking to be the biggest wasted Disney world potential in the series.

This kind of outrage I really don't get. Even if BH6 was worse than it is now, it's hardly a blip on the entire news cycle we went through just now. The world looks subpar but it's still a gain for KH3 to have it.
 

Luminary

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I’m wondering if there is a more realistic city-themed world (the one from the cover art) and if they may have toned down San Fransokyo to set the two apart. However, I’m hoping they’re just still in the process of filling out the details of SF since it does look lackluster.
 

Squall Strife

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That's the problem with adding cities, you're not going to get realism in it. There will be compromises because designing a city tales lots of time & effort. So more than likely that world will stick out like a sore thumb. Imagine Land of the Dragons where it was pretty much empty but with better graphics.
 

Raz

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I'm glad they're trying, at least. Maybe this means when they get around to a Zootopia world they'll be all the more prepared for it.
 

ultima-demi

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Needs 90% more neon lights but this honestly why i'm hoping BH6 isn't the final Disney world and the last one you go too. I would want the last one to really end at a high note.

Especially coming right after pirates.
 

Zettaflare

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I like what we've seen of San Fransokyo but it probably wasn't as good as the world I was picturing in my head, lol. The lack of NPCs and having only Baymax as a party member is a bit disappointing. After three years of speculating I guess my expectations were a bit too high.
 

the red monster

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I do think it's the worst world we seen so far from KH3.
at least the god tier monster inc. world will make up for it.
 

Nazo

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Huh, yknow I honestly don't have any complaints about the BH6 world. It looked great to me, especially that bridge area. This is the first time I'm seeing people say they're disappointed by how it looks. But, upon reading the posts here, I see where everyone is coming from. It does look a bit unpolished and bland in what we've seen but do keep in mind that San Fransokyo is likely still the youngest world in terms of development since it was added last. I think they got it to a showable state for TGS, but I think there's still some polish to be done. Either way, I'm still incredibly impressed by the look of the world.
 

mytomxxx

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I agree with the world being the worst one, but I don't want to sound like it is a bad world, just that close to the others it is not as shiny. I like the relation with the big hero team and keyblade hero team. The models of characters looks great, Sora's google glasses are awesome.

But the city feels empty indeed, and I think I can understand why. First I don't judge the develop team, neither think they did a poor work at it. And maybe they will polish it yet, and when we see the full game we get surprised. We can see by the expressions of Sora, that they are working yet in BH6.

I think I can understand why this happens, because I sorta was expecting it, Kingdom Hearts series never have a good point in feeling crowded, and the feeling Big Hero 6 gives me, is the same when I walk in the streets of Agabrah in KH2 or Arena Coliseum in KH1. It feels empty, not only because there are no people there, but because the city doens't look big and with a lot of stuff in it.

The toy shop in Toy Box, did this in a great way, the feeling of verticality, where you look at you see something interesting, something to do. But the Day light San Fransokyo looks small, and empty in all sorta of ways (when you are at the top of the building tho, I liked it, because where you look you see colors, statues, etc).

The point where I most got this feeling of small city, is when I see how fast Sora can climb a building in the city.

I was expecting it, for other reason too, because for a game who the focus is not on a city filled with npcs (like gta, which probably got more money to be made), it would take much time to really fill the city and make it really alive. I'm not a expert design, but I think it is really hard to them emulate San Fransokyo.

When the city is at night I like it tho.

I hope my grammar wasn't too bad.
 

metro96

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Needs 90% more neon lights but this honestly why i'm hoping BH6 isn't the final Disney world and the last one you go too. I would want the last one to really end at a high note.

Especially coming right after pirates.

Seriously, they could paper over many of the complaints with more neon lights. Even the few seconds of the mini-game they showed with the neon rings made the environment seem much more vibrant. And there's still time to make the ends of cosmetic adjustments I'd imagine
 
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I actually like the world. It met my expectations, so I didn’t set myself up for disappointment. I expected Baymax to be the only party member.

As for NPCs, we don’t know that there isn’t any. Pretty much everything we were shown from the world were battle scenes, and they wouldn’t have enemies populate areas that a lot of NPCs are in. They didn’t do that with FFXV, so why would they with KH?

I’m also finding it very likely that the rest of BH6 will be assist characters like the FF squad, Axel, Hercules, etc were in KH2.
 

The Dark Mamba

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The Coded connection is what's also killing the world for me. Data-Riku? Could there be a more boring choice? Sh#t gonna put me to sleep.

Also trying to make relevant the most filler/boring episode of KH by FAR? No, just no.

Yeah, the world is the worst we've seen so far. Was never really excited for it in the first place. Hoping the Caribbean is the final Disney world we go to storywise, because it'll pack more of a punch(unless they got something better yet to be shown).
 
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The Coded connection is what's also killing the world for me. Data-Riku? Could there be a more boring choice? Sh#t gonna put me to sleep.

Also trying to make relevant the most filler/boring episode of KH by FAR? No, just no.

Yeah, the world is the worst we've seen so far. Was never really excited for it in the first place. Hoping the Caribbean is the final Disney world we go to storywise, because it'll pack more of a punch(unless they got something better yet to be shown).

Coded has provided more to the main story of KH than Days did imo. Days was completely boring, horrible gameplay, and the story seemed like fan fiction.
 

Luminary

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[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]I’m not really convinced that Big Hero 6 is the last world we visit anymore. As I said before, it looks like we may have a city-themed original world and I think that would be one of the last worlds we visit. They probably wouldn’t want to place two cities too close together. Saving Roxas’ return until after all the Disney worlds are done would suck as well, but that’s just my opinion. I don’t think The Caribbean is after SF though because of how much more complete that world looks. We likely have the third worlds of the second and third pods left to reveal. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]
 

Nazo

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I don't get why people are acting like Nomura and co. are trying to "force Coded to be relevant" as if it wasn't already. The whole point is that Coded was always meant to be relevant but it was both poorly executed and the plot threads that it was setting up were in so far down the line that it seemed to be complete filler.

Coded has already been relevant once, in a major way. The "hurt" that is so frequently mentioned throughout Coded is what Namine is trying to warn Sora about all throughout the game. The pain of the people connected to him can directly affect his heart, "even break it" Namine says. This pain connected to the lost characters is exactly what Xehanort uses to trap Sora in darkness. Remember that sequence where he's chasing after Namine, Xion, Roxas, Terra, and Aqua, and he briefly takes on Ventus' appearance? Those are all the people shown at the end of Coded (minus Axel) and Xehanort is intentionally using that to sink Sora into sleep to make him a vessel.

In typical KH fashion, everything I just explained is left super vague and not explained whatsoever so it's understandable that almost nobody understands that connection. But, this is certainly not the first time Coded has been relevant. Data has been an important plot element since KH2 and it's clearly not going away anytime soon.
 

Audo

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Not to mention, if KH3 is to be the culmination of everything that has come before, that includes Coded. Personally, the coded integration is one of the better things about the world to me. I love the Greatest Hits feeling of KH3 so far, and I found the inclusion of Coded in BH6 to be a great fit considering how much of the story revolves around technology, the use of it, who uses it, and who uses it for power among other things. It's a good fit and certainly a better fit than just random Xion or Roxas.

To me, it seems the fandom can't make up its mind in re: Coded. On one hand you have people bemoaning Nomura making every game canon and important, and yet at the same time they decry Coded as being "pointless" and "unnecessary filler" and tell people to just skip it.

As for the world design itself... It doesn't wow me, but it is honestly pretty much what I expected. I don't think it's really fair to compare it to games like Spider-man where the city is the entire focus of the game and took years to develop. This is just one area of a very big game. But you know, there might also still be more to it than what we can see. None of us really thought Tangled would have NPCs or anything like that until they finally showed them like 2-3 years later. There could be more to know, more areas, more NPC-heavy locations, etc.
 
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