BBS V2 Prediction

[Stars]

yeah haha.

Plus for the sake of the story, it makes it even more sorrowful since that makes Terra a tragic hero. Plus I always did feel like the final theme against Xemnas sounded a little too SAD, and now I realize why.

Lol, so on your view, the sad theme has something to do with the tragic hero Terra? And the reason is...

 

[chasespicer056]

Lol, so on your view, the sad theme has something to do with the tragic hero Terra? And the reason is...

Well the fact that Terra turned into Xemnas, basically WAS Xemnas in many ways and did all that cruel stuff (turning people into Heartless, brainwashing Xion, etc) and becoming so cruel that he was killed by Sora and Riku makes his story all the more sorrowful.

 

[Stars]

Well the fact that Terra turned into Xemnas, basically WAS Xemnas in many ways and did all that cruel stuff (turning people into Heartless, brainwashing Xion, etc) and becoming so cruel that he was killed by Sora and Riku makes his story all the more sorrowful.

Or Xemnas would be act according to those memories he is regained? Especially he has MX memories, he will be just act as cruel according to MX's

 

[chasespicer056]

Or Xemnas would be act according to those memories he is regained? Especially he has MX memories, he will be just act as cruel according to MX's

Well the way Terra said he didn't care about the cost or losing control of his heart at the end of BBS pretty much hints that he expected to be in control of his body eventually, which means he controlled it as Xemnas.

 

[Crystal]

Well the way Terra said he didn't care about the cost or losing control of his heart at the end of BBS pretty much hints that he expected to be in control of his body eventually, which means he controlled it as Xemnas.

So, if Terra has most control on Xemnas. Why would he obssessed to KH like MX did? or Terra also has intention on the KH too?

 

[chasespicer056]

So, if Terra has most control on Xemnas. Why would he obssessed to KH like MX did? or Terra also has intention on the KH too?

I figure Terra started reassessing his goals after everything that happened to him. And with MX's knowledge, he realized that there was only one power strong enough to keep him, Aqua, and Ven together and protected from chaos: Kingdom Hearts. And nothing mattered to him but his one goal...being with Aqua and Ven.

 

[Crystal]

I figure Terra started reassessing his goals after everything that happened to him. And with MX's knowledge, he realized that there was only one power strong enough to keep him, Aqua, and Ven together and protected from chaos: Kingdom Hearts. And nothing mattered to him but his one goal...being with Aqua and Ven.

Interesting idea.
But how KH actually makes three of them together again?

 

[Absolute]

So, if Terra has most control on Xemnas. Why would he obssessed to KH like MX did? or Terra also has intention on the KH too?

And interesting how Xemnas had intention with the man-made KH, not the actual one. Xehanort's heartless focused on the real KH.

He was collecting people's hearts (somehow. Did they ever mention how/why those hearts went to TWtNW?). Was it just for power, or was he looking for something else? If he knew Ven was in the Room of Repose or whatever its called, then he might also know something was very wrong with Ven. Maybe he knew Ven's heart was damaged or thought it was gone. Perhaps Xemnas was collecting hearts to hopefully by luck find Ven's heart, assuming that a heartless took it instead of knowing Sora had it all along.

Actually, thinking that, it gives an interesting double meaning to Xemnas' attack in the final battle, when he grabs Sora and says 'Can you spare a heart?' Was he thinking of taking Sora's heart, or did he know by then that Ven's heart was in Sora and Xemnas was trying to rip Ven's heart out of Sora?

 

[Crystal]

And interesting how Xemnas had intention with the man-made KH, not the actual one. Xehanort's heartless focused on the real KH.

He did say before he want to fused his power with KH right?
So, maybe that's intention on it.

Actually, thinking that, it gives an interesting double meaning to Xemnas' attack in the final battle, when he grabs Sora and says 'Can you spare a heart?' Was he thinking of taking Sora's heart, or did he know by then that Ven's heart was in Sora and Xemnas was trying to rip Ven's heart out of Sora?

o.o I never notice what he said in the battle, but that's interesting idea

 

[Relix]

Personally I think Terra miscalculated. I mean even if he was planning to have control of his body at some point (though I don't believe Terra's heart or any part of it is within Xemnas) I don't think he was planning to be an emotionless powerhouse. I think without having emotions and having Xehanort influences (because quite frankly if MX wasn't also influencing Xemnas, Xemnas would just be a spitting image of Terra) plus Xehanort's ambitious nature, plus Terra's original seeking of power, twisted Xemnas into what he is. A warped Terra high on Xehanort drugs that MX would be incredibly proud of.

So I really don't think Terra was in control of Xemnas even though he essentially is Terra. In a nutshell, Xemnas is twisted clusterfluff of Terra and Xehanort's ambitions with a memory train wreck of his time as Terra, MX, Apprentice Xehanort, and probably even Eraqus if he had a strong enough influence.

Why I think he is seeking is Ven is probably the same reason why Ansem SoD was seeking Riku (which could also explain the showdown in KH3D) Ansem SoD could have sought Riku on Destiny Islands because Terra met Riku there and that was MX home world, where as with Xemnas he's searching for Ven because he was Terra's best friend and because MX might still want to use him for the X-Blade. both Xemnas and Ansem SoD are having a tug of war of drives between Mx and Terra.

 

[Ikkin]

So I really don't think Terra was in control of Xemnas even though he essentially is Terra. In a nutshell, Xemnas is twisted clusterfluff of Terra and Xehanort's ambitions with a memory train wreck of his time as Terra, MX, Apprentice Xehanort, and probably even Eraqus if he had a strong enough influence.

Something to remember, though, is that no matter how many other memories Xemnas has, he still thinks of himself as Xehanort-the-Apprentice. There's a continuity of mind implied between those two in the conversation Xemnas has with Ansem the Wise, which makes it virtually impossible for Terra to truly be in control -- if those memories are driving him, then he's still in large part Xehanort.

 

[Radar]

I never thought about Aqua meeting Xemnas. That could make a pretty good story.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

Something to remember, though, is that no matter how many other memories Xemnas has, he still thinks of himself as Xehanort-the-Apprentice. There's a continuity of mind implied between those two in the conversation Xemnas has with Ansem the Wise, which makes it virtually impossible for Terra to truly be in control -- if those memories are driving him, then he's still in large part Xehanort.

Agh, this is true...Xemnas does see himself as somewhat of a continuation of Apprentice Xehanort.
So him calling Aqua's armor "friend" can be seen as a more sarcastic remark I would think.

So is it safe to assume then that Xemnas's intentions were more malevolent in nature?

 

[Ikkin]

Agh, this is true...Xemnas does see himself as somewhat of a continuation of Apprentice Xehanort.
So him calling Aqua's armor "friend" can be seen as a more sarcastic remark I would think.

So is it safe to assume then that Xemnas's intentions were more malevolent in nature?

Just because he sees himself as Apprentice-Xehanort-minus-a-heart doesn't mean he doesn't legitimately think of Aqua as a friend. Apprentice Xehanort never knew Aqua -- all that he would have to go by where she's concerned are Terra and Master Xehanort's memories, and MX doesn't care enough for AX to be sarcastic about it. Remember, AX doesn't know anything about where he came from, so he'd probably accept Terra's memories as his own past.

I do think that Xemnas' intentions, especially those involving Kingdom Hearts, were mainly malevolent. But I do think that some of the things he does are motivated by what he remembers from Terra's life, too, especially where the Chamber of Waking is concerned.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

Just because he sees himself as Apprentice-Xehanort-minus-a-heart doesn't mean he doesn't legitimately think of Aqua as a friend. Apprentice Xehanort never knew Aqua -- all that he would have to go by where she's concerned are Terra and Master Xehanort's memories, and MX doesn't care enough for AX to be sarcastic about it. Remember, AX doesn't know anything about where he came from, so he'd probably accept Terra's memories as his own past.

I do think that Xemnas' intentions, especially those involving Kingdom Hearts, were mainly malevolent. But I do think that some of the things he does are motivated by what he remembers from Terra's life, too, especially where the Chamber of Waking is concerned.

I see, I forgot that Apprentice Xehanort was an entire new person, with Terra and Master Xehanort probably beating the shit out of each other in their battle for internal dominance inside AX.

Xemnas so mainly followed MX's original goals, yet still tooks some sidesteps to act on memories of Terra he possesses.
Nonetheless it remains still a mystery what Xemnas actually wanted to gain by frantically searching for the chamber.
I mean, the only thing he could have found if he really managed to find the chamber would be Ventus's comatose body without its heart...

 

[chasespicer056]

Actually, thinking that, it gives an interesting double meaning to Xemnas' attack in the final battle, when he grabs Sora and says 'Can you spare a heart?' Was he thinking of taking Sora's heart, or did he know by then that Ven's heart was in Sora and Xemnas was trying to rip Ven's heart out of Sora?

...I love you for coming up with that idea!!!!!!!!!! Now it makes even more sense!!

Just because he sees himself as Apprentice-Xehanort-minus-a-heart doesn't mean he doesn't legitimately think of Aqua as a friend. Apprentice Xehanort never knew Aqua -- all that he would have to go by where she's concerned are Terra and Master Xehanort's memories, and MX doesn't care enough for AX to be sarcastic about it. Remember, AX doesn't know anything about where he came from, so he'd probably accept Terra's memories as his own past.

I do think that Xemnas' intentions, especially those involving Kingdom Hearts, were mainly malevolent. But I do think that some of the things he does are motivated by what he remembers from Terra's life, too, especially where the Chamber of Waking is concerned.

In private though, it seems like Xemnas actually sees himself as Terra. Why else would he hold on to Aqua's armor for 10 years and spend so much effort looking for Ven even though he had two Keyblade wielders at his disposal at the time?

And why would Xemnas even want a heart in his situation? He remembers how gullible Terra was and how easily deceived he was by the Disney villains. He remembers how much guilt Terra felt after Eraqus killed him. This is the reason he doesn't really want a heart.

The only reason we even think Xemnas is malevolent to begin with is because Org 13 tried to turn people into Heartless and because he tried to defeat Sora and co.

Well that only makes sense for him. Why would Xemnas care if he had to turn people into a Heartless to achieve his goal? He doesn't have nor want emotions. And Sora and the others attacked Xemnas, not the other way around. They're the ones who destroyed him. He was just trying to get rid of them so nothing stood in his way from reuniting with Aqua and Ven.

Though I admit, saying Terra himself had control over Xemnas is a bit unlikely. But considering Xemnas had no emotions like Terra, Terra's control might only do so much. Just think about how being emotionless would change somebody and their personality.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

...I love you for coming up with that idea!!!!!!!!!! Now it makes even more sense!!

Lol, I actually came up with that thought yesterday too, but dismissed it as being too obvious.

But overthinking it again now, it certainly does have some credibility to consider that Xemnas actually knew what is hidden inside Sora.
He expected to win their last fight and doesn't really care about Sora.
The phrase "Can you spare a heart?" can be interpreted in different ways, and to us "viewers" of the story it can come across as very ironic since we know BBS, as Sora indeed has a "spare" heart.

I said before Xemnas knew about Ven's heart in Sora.
So how could be possibly know?
Aqua? Nope, not possible since Aqua doesn't even know Ven's heart left its body after she left him in the chamber of waking.
But lets think about another person...
I don't remember it exactly, but I recall it was said in Days Xemnas created Xion as a fail-safe if both Sora and Roxas prove useless to his plan. Yet he also wanted Xion to absorb Roxas and become a "second" Sora.
Xemnas is also very knowledgeable about hearts, so he should know about that hearts influence appearance, and if he knows how Ven looks like he should instantly have recognized that Roxas, Sora's nobody, does look more like Ven than Sora and therefore must harbor his heart.
If Xemnas's plan had succeeded and Xion absorbed Roxas he would probably have used her until his Kingdom Hearts was fully complete, and then extract Ven's heart from within Xion, as he seemingly needs no keyblade for that (evidenced by his "Invitation to nothingness"-attack in KH 2), and then destroy her since with KH complete he would have no more use for her.
Later in KH II Xemnas obviously knows that Roxas has rejoined with Sora, bringing Ven's heart back into Sora with him, so him trying to suck out Ven's heart from within Sora would make sense.

However, what in this assumed scenario doesn't make sense is why Xemnas allowed Saix to try and destroy Sora after the artificial KH was completed, as Saix asks: "So I can end this charade?" and Xemnas replies "Indeed!"
If he really knew that Sora harbors Ven's heart and really wanted to secure it he wouldn't have allowed that, would he?

Probably "Can you spare a heart?" is really just meant as an ironic allusion, lol.

 

[Relix]

Yeah the fact that Xemnas thinks that he is Xehanort the Apprentice and that he may think that his memories of Terra are memories of his past. What if he has some of MX memories, some of Terra's memories, and perhaps a bit of Eraqus's memories(doubt it) and he's compiling it all into a history for himself. Like thinking that he's both MX and Terra at the same time as though he's lived one life. This way of thinking for him could have happened as early as when he was Apprentice Xehanort and he was experimented on. He could have confused his entire past and history with the memories of these 2(3?) people.

 

[chasespicer056]

Lol, I actually came up with that thought yesterday too, but dismissed it as being too obvious.

But overthinking it again now, it certainly does have some credibility to consider that Xemnas actually knew what is hidden inside Sora.
He expected to win their last fight and doesn't really care about Sora.
The phrase "Can you spare a heart?" can be interpreted in different ways, and to us "viewers" of the story it can come across as very ironic since we know BBS, as Sora indeed has a "spare" heart.

I said before Xemnas knew about Ven's heart in Sora.
So how could be possibly know?
Aqua? Nope, not possible since Aqua doesn't even know Ven's heart left its body after she left him in the chamber of waking.
But lets think about another person...
I don't remember it exactly, but I recall it was said in Days Xemnas created Xion as a fail-safe if both Sora and Roxas prove useless to his plan. Yet he also wanted Xion to absorb Roxas and become a "second" Sora.
Xemnas is also very knowledgeable about hearts, so he should know about that hearts influence appearance, and if he knows how Ven looks like he should instantly have recognized that Roxas, Sora's nobody, does look more like Ven than Sora and therefore must harbor his heart.
If Xemnas's plan had succeeded and Xion absorbed Roxas he would probably have used her until his Kingdom Hearts was fully complete, and then extract Ven's heart from within Xion, as he seemingly needs no keyblade for that (evidenced by his "Invitation to nothingness"-attack in KH 2), and then destroy her since with KH complete he would have no more use for her.
Later in KH II Xemnas obviously knows that Roxas has rejoined with Sora, bringing Ven's heart back into Sora with him, so him trying to suck out Ven's heart from within Sora would make sense.

However, what in this assumed scenario doesn't make sense is why Xemnas allowed Saix to try and destroy Sora after the artificial KH was completed, as Saix asks: "So I can end this charade?" and Xemnas replies "Indeed!"
If he really knew that Sora harbors Ven's heart and really wanted to secure it he wouldn't have allowed that, would he?

Probably "Can you spare a heart?" is really just meant as an ironic allusion, lol.

If nothing else, Xemnas probably hoped that destroying Sora's body would release Ven's heart and return it to Ven's body. He knows what happened when Eraqus was killed: his heart was released. And he knows that when Sora became a Heartless Ven's heart was released. I think that makes just as much sense.

Yeah the fact that Xemnas thinks that he is Xehanort the Apprentice and that he may think that his memories of Terra are memories of his past. What if he has some of MX memories, some of Terra's memories, and perhaps a bit of Eraqus's memories(doubt it) and he's compiling it all into a history for himself. Like thinking that he's both MX and Terra at the same time as though he's lived one life. This way of thinking for him could have happened as early as when he was Apprentice Xehanort and he was experimented on. He could have confused his entire past and history with the memories of these 2(3?) people.

No, I think that he DOES believe he's Terra.

YouTube - Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep (Final Mix) - 1st Production Department Premiere 2011 Trailer

Look at this video. It's for the production team of BBSFM specifically. And one of the quotes they show is Terra saying "Whatever the cost I'm ready to pay it."

Don't you see? Terra was WILLING to become Xemnas the entire time. Look where being a good guy got him! Look where trusting the villains got him! He was sick of trying to be the hero!

In my book, Xemnas has Terra's mind and intentions, but lacking emotions enables him to be a tragic hero and villain. However, he DOES have Eraqus and MX's memories, especially since Eraqus taught that strength comes from the heart (Aqua said so in the tutorial opening) and Xemnas declared "HEARTS ARE THE SOURCE OF ALL POWER!"

 

[Ikkin]

Look at this video. It's for the production team of BBSFM specifically. And one of the quotes they show is Terra saying "Whatever the cost I'm ready to pay it."

Don't you see? Terra was WILLING to become Xemnas the entire time. Look where being a good guy got him! Look where trusting the villains got him! He was sick of trying to be the hero!

In my book, Xemnas has Terra's mind and intentions, but lacking emotions enables him to be a tragic hero and villain. However, he DOES have Eraqus and MX's memories, especially since Eraqus taught that strength comes from the heart (Aqua said so in the tutorial opening) and Xemnas declared "HEARTS ARE THE SOURCE OF ALL POWER!"

I don't think there was enough of a buildup if that was supposed to be Terra saying he'd be the bad guy if that's what it took. He's bitter and angry, but I'm not sure that he'd go so far as to say he's sick of being the hero -- that's just too far from Terra's personality to happen so quickly. I can see him getting so wrapped up in whatever that he just doesn't care about anything anymore, especially considering the way Terra said that line, but he'd still probably want to be a good person.

Xemnas is something different entirely -- whatever Terra meant by that line, I don't think it meant the kinds of things he did to Roxas and Xion. =/