At Long Last My Unbirth Theory!!!

[Memory Master]

The General Idea of this Theory: Unbirths are Nothingness Made Real

The Unbirth of Kingdom Hearts 2:

Ansem the Wise and the Evidence he Presents: Namine is possibly an unbirth. SufferingAngel and some others have brought this idea up before. But I bet some of you are wondering "But Namine was a nobody?" Well not according to Ansem the Wise. As Ansem the Wise stated in Ansem Report 9:

She is a non-being in the truest sense of the word, having not become a nobody and having no where to go, she is but the most fleeting of shadows.

As you can see even Ansem himself said she was not a nobody and the most fleeting of shadows. Pretty much she is less than a nobody, she has no body, no soul or heart. She is basically nothing. Yet she has a human form so she is nothingness made real. Now before we can go into how Namine came into creation we must first go over the process of becoming an unbirth.

The Process of Becoming an Unbirth and The Realm of Nothingness:

Ansem's Experience in the Realm of Nothingness: As we know Ansem was in the realm of nothingness for quite some time. His experience in that realm is key to explaining the process of becoming an unbirth. Let's see how Ansem describes it:

It is only by relying on my anger and hatred that I have been able to retain my sense of self here, where all existence is nullified.

In this realm, where all existence has been disintegrated, I have just barely been able to preserve my sense of self by continuing to think and right.

By Ansem experience it seems the nature of notingness is to wipe things from existence. Ansem only survived this by using his heart to feel emotions(Anger and Hatred) and by thinking/remembering.

The Process of Becoming an Unbirth: If one becomes nothing then they no longer exist, if they no longer exist then it's like they were never born It's kinda like a reverse birth. So lets say that Ansem had not used his emotions and continue to think and remember, he would have faded into nothingness and it would be like he was never born. If this is so then we can assume that the process of becoming an unbirth involves the lost of emotion, memory, body, soul, everything. Just as Namine is nothiness made real, unbirths are also nothingness made real.

The Unbirth Process that Created Namine: Sora stated that when he became a heartless he slowly started to lose his memory. Normally these memories would go to Roxas but since Sora's time as a heartless was so short they did not. But for the brief period that Sora was losing his memory it was similar to how one loses their memory in the unbirth process. Thus for a that brief period of time an unbirth process occured an Namine was the unbirth that was created.


Unbirths and Their connection to Castle Oblivion: Since Namine awoke in Castle Oblivion and she is an unbirth then it's possible that unbirths have a connection to Castle Oblivion and if the beleif that Master Xehanort was the original owner of Castle Oblivion then he may also have connections to these creatures.

The Difference Between Nobodies and Unbirths: This is quite simple. People assume that nobodies are nothing but this is'nt so. They are made of a body and soul and we know that the body and soul are not nothing. However Unbirths truly are nothing, they are nothingness made real.

Well I know it's not the perfect theory but I think I did pretty well.

 

[Azrael]

SA has been helping corrupting you with her faggoty ideas

Good theory

 

[Insomniac]

Ansem's Experience in the Realm of Nothingness: As we know Ansem was in the realm of nothingness for quite some time. His experience in that realm is key to explaining the process of becoming an unbirth.

We actually don't know how long he was in the Realm of Nothingness.

If one becomes nothing then they no longer exist, if they no longer exist then it's like they were never born It's kinda like a reverse birth.

Isn't that dieing?

So lets say that Ansem had not used his emotions and continue to think and remember, he would have faded into nothingness and it would be like he was never born.

Why would that make him fade into Nothingness? He would just no longer acknowledge his emotions. We already know that he did though. He said that he craved for revenge.

Sora stated that when he became a heartless he slowly started to lose his memory. Normally these memories would go to Roxas but since Sora's time as a heartless was so short they did not. But for the brief period that Sora was losing his memory it was similar to how one loses their memory in the unbirth process. Thus for a that brief period of time an unbirth process occured an Namine was the unbirth that was created.

How could the normal process of a Nobodies creation create an Unbirth. The memories returningto Sora is not normal but, the memories going to Roxas is.

Well thought out theory. It seems somewhat possible.

 

[Orion]

Well, I've been waiting to hear from it, and now that it's arrived, I'm not quite sure what to say or think of it.

It summarises the facts we know and fits them together to create a possible explanation as to what Unbirths are....

 

[DMrayZ]

Hmm, I must admit that I particularly like this Idea, as it carries some of my own theory on what the next enemies Should be, I've said it before, here it is again.

Four different realms, four different enemies to embody them.

Darkness- Heartless
Twilight- Nobodies
Nothingness Unbirths
Light- ?

It seems to make sense, Especially if you were to add the keyblade wielders,

Darkness- Riku
Twilight- ? Or Sora
Nothingness- Sora (Seeing as he has his Anti-form, and is capable of both Light and Dark type attacks, I think he fits best here, or in Twilight)
Kairi- (If only for lack of a better specimen, It's possible that her Short time as a wielder qualified her to be considered the Wielder of this realm, if not, King Mickey is.) King Mickey

The pattern seems to fit logically, and I hold that there IS a logical order to this, so you theory fits mine.

 

[Aluminumticket]

I like it!

 

[tjong_da_wei]

But didn't AtW also stated that Namine's a special Nobody (I recall that he said that to King Mickey in TWTNW), because she is made from a PoH who losses her heart? I think it is written on the same report in the end of paragraph 1...

Namine’ is a Nobody, created when a young girl’s heart left her body. Yet she had no corresponding Heartless.

and the reason is in paragraph 2...

This is because the “young girl” in this case was a princess. Kairi, a resident of Radiant Garden over which I had ruled, was one of the Seven Princesses that uphold the realm of light. With no darkness in her heart, Kairi produced no Heartless, and instead of vanishing, her body remained in the realm of light.

Sorry if I make any mistake...

 

[Faris]

its here at last, im going to have to read it again to get a better grip on it though.

 

[15th member]

Seems good!!!!, but it as not confirmed if he was really in the realm of nothingless at that time

 

[Memory Master]

But didn't AtW also stated that Namine's a special Nobody (I recall that he said that to King Mickey in TWTNW), because she is made from a PoH who losses her heart? I think it is written on the same report in the end of paragraph 1...



and the reason is in paragraph 2...



Sorry if I make any mistake...

Ansem said that was his hypothesis, meaning it was a theory. So Namine may not be Kairi's nobody.

 

[Dawn at Dusk]

Hmm, I like it, it uses what we know for the most part and puts the pieces together well, and really thats all we can do untill we are told so this sounds good to me.

 

[Key of Valor]

Everything in the Secret Ansem Reports are a hypothesis of potential error except
the things that Nomura has confirmed through Another Report and Interviews.

Pretty good theory, but I personally don't favor the concept of Unbirths being
'Nothing made real' because if nothing can be something, then anything can be anything.

I didn't quite understand the description of how Namine was born as Sora's
Unbirth even though she looks like Kairi and returned to her too...
In this theory, Unbirths are born when something no longer exists but
leaves a trace of self as an independent element in the world. So if the
thing that no longer exists is Sora, then why would the Unbirth born
from his memories take the form of Namine? Also, when Sora became
a Heartless, he still existed as a Heartless, so who didn't exist anymore
to create Namine?

 

[Dawn at Dusk]

Namine has a connection too sora but what if the absence of kairis heart ( because she technically shares one with sora) is the reason for namine existence as an unbirth. [just a thought]

 

[Organization_42]

If one becomes nothing then they no longer exist, if they no longer exist then it's like they were never born It's kinda like a reverse birth.

I like where that's going! It helps the idea of "unbirth" make more sense.

The Unbirth Process that Created Namine: Sora stated that when he became a heartless he slowly started to lose his memory. Normally these memories would go to Roxas but since Sora's time as a heartless was so short they did not. But for the brief period that Sora was losing his memory it was similar to how one loses their memory in the unbirth process. Thus for a that brief period of time an unbirth process occured an Namine was the unbirth that was created.

I don't know, I think that's stretching it. The memories should have gone to Roxas; the only reason why they didn't was because Kairi restored Sora. It wouldn't make sense for them to form Namine, because it's normal to forget who you are when you become a Heartless. Larxene said so herself.

I don't think Namine needs to be an Unbirth for your theory to work anyway.

Good job!

 

[Smile]

The General Idea of this Theory: Unbirths are Nothingness Made Real

I oppose this notion.

Ansem the Wise and the Evidence he Presents: Namine is possibly an unbirth. SufferingAngel and some others have brought this idea up before. But I bet some of you are wondering "But Namine was a nobody?" Well not according to Ansem the Wise.

Yet AtW said she was a Special Nobody. Namely - she defies the laws as we know them, yes, but that only means we don't know the laws she abides. She's made up of nothing that we know of.

As you can see even Ansem himself said she was not a nobody and the most fleeting of shadows. Pretty much she is less than a nobody, she has no body, no soul or heart.

Which is why I said we've no idea what she is made of.

By Ansem experience it seems the nature of notingness is to wipe things from existence. Ansem only survived this by using his heart to feel emotions(Anger and Hatred) and by thinking/remembering.

He was saying he was losing his mind. Going by the notion that the Existence the Nobodies lack is Identity, he was probably really going insane, instead of disappearing.

The Process of Becoming an Unbirth: If one becomes nothing then they no longer exist, if they no longer exist then it's like they were never born It's kinda like a reverse birth.

That would only be true if people forgot about them, as happened to Sora between CoM and KH2.
There would be, pardon the pun - proof of existence.
This would only somewhat hold if people forgot about the person that vanished, but that leads us once again to ties to Memories, and that, by default, would mean Unbirths can't really be nothing.

So lets say that Ansem had not used his emotions and continue to think and remember, he would have faded into nothingness and it would be like he was never born.

His people remembered him, and - because of XH, but still - resented him. Tron had data of him.
His existence had proof, which is where your theory fails for the most part. Namine is a good example to show what I mean - Nobodies wanted Identity. For the gap in their chest to stop aching.
Namine wanted someone else to acknowledge her existence.
You ignoring the fact that existence isn't something you possess, but is more something that is reflected back upon you by others makes this theory to be lacking, at best.

You don't have to remember Pooh - Pooh'll remember you.

Just as Namine is nothiness made real, unbirths are also nothingness made real.

Only the first and second parts of your sentence have nothing to do with each other :\

The Unbirth Process that Created Namine: Sora stated that when he became a heartless he slowly started to lose his memory. Normally these memories would go to Roxas but since Sora's time as a heartless was so short they did not. But for the brief period that Sora was losing his memory it was similar to how one loses their memory in the unbirth process. Thus for a that brief period of time an unbirth process occured an Namine was the unbirth that was created.

Uh, they did start to go to Roxas, but were pulled back. Alternatively, made Xion but that's besides the point.
Also, the Memories came back from somewhere, so either they did reach Roxas, or they were in Sora himself.
To top it all, CoM bases beyond the shadow of a doubt that even when forgotten, the Memories don't disappear - they're there.
And the Memories playing such a big role in Sora's return to humanity no doubt had to do with Namine, seeing those are her powers.

Unbirths and Their connection to Castle Oblivion: Since Namine awoke in Castle Oblivion and she is an unbirth then it's possible that unbirths have a connection to Castle Oblivion and if the beleif that Master Xehanort was the original owner of Castle Oblivion then he may also have connections to these creatures.

It seems to me that Namine waking up in Castle Oblivion has at the very least to do with her obvious ties to Memories, which the castle has too.
That, and possible Ven relations.
But again, no, this has nothing to do with, well, nothing.

The Difference Between Nobodies and Unbirths: This is quite simple. People assume that nobodies are nothing but this is'nt so. They are made of a body and soul and we know that the body and soul are not nothing. However Unbirths truly are nothing, they are nothingness made real.

Uh... it's common knowledge they're not really nothing. Again, the Existence they lack is Identity.
Roxas can't be Sora when there already exists a Sora - his Heart.

I don't think Namine needs to be an Unbirth for your theory to work anyway.

Actually, him saying Namine's an Unbirth is all but destructive to this theory.

 

[Raz]

How would they stop existing after BBS?

 

[Memory Master]

How would they stop existing after BBS?

I'm not even going to start to theorize about that. I don't think anyone can possibly guess that until the game comes out.

Secondly Unbirths=nothingness made real is just like saying heartless have hearts. We know that heartless have hearts yet they are called heartless. If unbirths are nothingness made real, then it's pretty much the same concept. Just like heartless have hearts, unbirths have existence but they came from nothing and nothing became real. Thus unbirth.

 

[Smile]

Heartless are the Hearts. What they lack is emotions.
Nobodies are the Bodies. What they lack is Identity.
Thus, Unbirths are more likely the existence itself curropted than the cancellation of it.

 

[Neko]

I don`t get why they call them heartless if they have hearts, it just doesn`t make sense!!!!!

 

[Memory Master]

How would existence be corrupted?