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KHUX ► Ark, True Dandelion, and Kh3 Secret ending assumptions



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Hirokey123

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So just as thing there are, unless the writers forgot, 3 Daybreak towns.

The original the war happened in, a second the Dandelions escaped to in order to avoid a war, and a third digital one they use to access a datascape in order to collect lux. Now until we know better that means that there are in reality 21 vessels to be used HOWEVER we take away 7 of those now because 7 are to be used to escape the digital world so in reality that means there are only 14 that matter. So now let's look a this objectively...

Of the 7 digital vessels 1 is taken by Maleficent leaving 6 and we have exactly 6 people we know need to escape this digital world. Ephemer, Brain, Lauriam, Ventus, Skuld, and Elrena with the latter I would assume be coming along because of Lauriam.

Of the 7 Second Daybreak town vessels 1 is taken by Maleficent to return to her own time and 1 is taken the "true" dandelions. This means only 5 vessels remain and this lines up with Luxu's secret report in KH3 saying he saw 5 people escape this world. Ventus, Skuld, Lauriam, and Elrena definitely travel to the future as we know and/or have heard about them being there. This leaves us with two people who are more iffy which are Ephemer and Brain.

It's clear one of these two is going to be the one who sets up scala and the regeneration of the worlds. All signs of this point to only one person and that is Brain. Scala's keyblades are modeled off starlight and master's defender of which the latter is both blade passed down through the order AND was originally Brain's keyblade. Second while we don't know exactly they set up the worlds to rebuild themselves they must have some sort of model to draw on, something with the data they need, aka the book of prophecy which is also in brain's possession. There is other evidence that whoever set up Scala has the book namely it's prophecies are known things, things taught to the students of scala, which is why Xehanort and Eraqus were both aware of them. Lastly Eraqus is supposedly descended from one of the dandelion leaders it can't be Ephemer and Ventus as they are still kids long after he is a dead old man, Marluxia and Larxene are young adults after he is a dead old man, and Skuld is 99% subject X meaning she arrived in the future after Eraqus is already an old man. Mix this with Brain having Master's Defender and looking extremely similar to Eraqus and it equals out to yes Brain did take one of the vessels. I also want to note Eraqus calls him his grandfather (not great grandfather) and the world is only partially reconstructed, so chances are that Brain jumped hundreds of years into the future and then started this whole world rebuilding process only maybe a hundred or so years ago from Dark Road Times.

This means Ephemer stays behind and that makes a lot of sense. Ephemer is the overall leader of the Dandelions and basically the Player's best friend so it would be bad form to just ditch them. In fact KH3 shows that Ephemer must still be somewhere with the Dandelions given that he sent their power to aid us in KH3. So yeah Ephemer is most likely the one who did not travel BUT he might have found a way to rescue the Dandelions from the virtual prison, but who really knows.

What that means though is that the usual suspects for the true dandelion are able to be pretty easily accounted for and reach their destinations without Luxu. Ergo I think that can only mean that it's none of them and thus I believe there are only a few possible options....

1. It's a new character we haven't seen before
2. It's a character we have seen before but is an outlier like maybe Yozora or Strelitzia
3. It's Demyx

I'm going with 3 because it would plug up some holes. Marluxia, Larxene, Demyx, and Luxord all are connected to the secrets of the ancient past of the keyblade but as it stands Demyx is the odd man out. Marluxia and Larxene are known past wielders who we've seen the general origins of now. Luxord has some kind of relationship to Verum Rex given that he's most certainly Yozora's driver, the better ending lets us see the top of head in the mirror, it sounds like him, and Luxord's VA confirmed he was voicing the driver so yeah. But what about Demyx?

Why isn't there a shred of a hint to Demyx's presence or past? Why is he even here in the organization so constantly when barely contributes anything of value their plans besides just being more meat? How can someone so cowardly and weak have such a powerful heart to have a full human Nobody? Xemnas said the only reason he is here is because he has secrets inside him. Demxy implies the only reason he ever came back to the Organization is because they basically strong armed him. Basically there isn't much of a case for Demyx to even be in this story and his list of accomplishments are nearly entirely non-existent. Despite being on the bad guys side he offered them no meaningful help and when he came back to their side a second time he actively worked against team darkness from the inside. Traveling around gathering up vessels and taking them to people who could fill them up with guardians of light, being in part directly responsible for Roxas's return and subsequently saved multiple guardians of light by doing so. And how did he do this? By being such an unassuming off the radar unknown factor that he could slip around and do stuff undetected.

This is why I believed Demyx is the true dandelion because when you look at the story Demyx was this lone little person planted into organization, a seed of light in the darkness, who due to his nature is cast to and fro wherever the winds take him just like an actual dandelion seed. His nature ensured he would never do anything big that would upset the greater plans at work, but his unassuming presence would allow him to do small things that had a large ripple effect. He would be just the kind of thing Luxu needs, a way to plant light into darkness that doesn't endanger the MoM's plan but does mess up the forces of Darkness. Given Luxu would have chosen him practically on a whim and sent him forward it would almost mean that Demyx is a Dandelion with no meaningful backstory and no grand transportation, Luxu just probably knocked him out and transported him. It's spur of the moment and unceremonious which fits the complete blank that is Demyx's story.

Anyway that accounts for the 7 virtual vessels and the 7 secondary daybreak town vessels but we still have the original 7. Given the MoM's words we can safely assume he used one of them meaning there are 6 left and we know Luxu didn't use one of them as the MoM's plan hinges on Luxu just living for literal eternity via body snatching until some vague appointed time in the future. So 6 vessels need to be taken and I can believe this works in one of two ways. Either they were all destroyed when the world was swallowed by darkness which is perfectly feasible I think to believe. OR 5 of these 6 vessels were taken by the Foretellers explaining why they just disappeared from history without a trace and have shown up in KH3, with Ava deliberately changing her destination to head somewhere else. Of course that means they would need to know about the ark to do so BUT if Luxu told Ava everything then Ava would know and that would explain why Ava went to the keyblade war when she was against the fighting, because she went to inform the others and save them. That leaves a solitary vessel behind and I could believe that was just destroyed.
 

Alpha Baymax

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I highly doubt that the "true dandelion" is
  • Ventus
  • Lauriam
  • Elrena
  • Demyx
  • Luxord
The dandelions are supposed to be filled with light and bring hope to the universe.

Ventus- brought darkness to the future and was the tool that kickstarter Xehanort's numerous universe-destroying escapades

Lauriam/Elrena/Demyx/Luxord- these fuckers joined a universal doomsday cult twice, where they spent their work days terrorizing innocent people
Yeah, this is a tough one to decipher without having further narrative context. For all we know, it could be a new character.
 
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Also Xehanort would have probably still have gone after Terra even, if Ven hadn't appeared. Though I do wonder, if Riku and Kairi would have gotten their keyblades if there was no Ven. After all no Ventus would also mean no Vanitas, which would probably lead Xehanort to using another method to lure Terra away from the Land of Departure.
Hmm. Now that, I haven't considered. Sora wasn't chosen by the keyblade until he confronted Riku in Hollow Bastion. So, the Kingdom Key wouldn't have "moved down the list" back on Destiny Islands. And yes, the keyblade did eventually choose Sora since it straight up abandoned Riku for Sora after his iconic speech. No other keyblade has done that. The Kingdom Key wouldn't have "moved down the list" back on Destiny Islands.

No Ventus--> No Vanitas--> No Unversed infestation--> No reason for Terra to leave home--> No keyblade inheritance for Riku

Best case scenario: SRK suffer a swift death when Destiny Islands gets destroyed

Worst case scenario: SRK suffer a slower, more grueling death at sea on their hella unsafe, under-supplied raft
 

Form Oblivion

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I'm going with 3 because it would plug up some holes. Marluxia, Larxene, Demyx, and Luxord all are connected to the secrets of the ancient past of the keyblade but as it stands Demyx is the odd man out. Marluxia and Larxene are known past wielders who we've seen the general origins of now. Luxord has some kind of relationship to Verum Rex given that he's most certainly Yozora's driver, the better ending lets us see the top of head in the mirror, it sounds like him, and Luxord's VA confirmed he was voicing the driver so yeah. But what about Demyx?
...That line about the ancient Keyblade legacy was mistranslated, so it isn't confirmed whether Luxord and Demyx have connections to the age of fairy tales or not.
Of the 7 digital vessels 1 is taken by Maleficent leaving 6 and we have exactly 6 people we know need to escape this digital world. Ephemer, Brain, Lauriam, Ventus, Skuld, and Elrena with the latter I would assume be coming along because of Lauriam.
One of the datascape arks was damaged and rendered useless though.

Also, the Master heavily implies he used one (a real world one) to travel into the future.


My opinion about Elrena's case is that Lauriam realizes there's a limited number of people who can escape the data world and, unbeknownst to her, he saves her without an explanation.
 
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Antifa Lockhart

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...That line about the ancient Keyblade legacy was mistranslated

I've seen you say this all over the internet but I'm not convinced.

I looked into this, shoutout to @Goldpanner, and the original japanese translates to "in order to find the ancient Keyblade wielders inside the four of you"

So...what's the difference?
 

Form Oblivion

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I've seen you say this all over the internet but I'm not convinced.

I looked into this, shoutout to @Goldpanner, and the original japanese translates to "in order to find the ancient Keyblade wielders inside the four of you"

So...what's the difference?
Well, in Japanese, there's no singular or plural tense (for example, 'apple' and 'apples' look the exact same). So, it can be translated as 'in order to find (an) ancient Keyblade wielder(s) inside/among the four of you'. It could be interpreted as all of them, one of them, or some of them. It's not exactly certain. But if it were referring to all four of them, then I'd expect we'd already have seen Luxord and/or Demyx. But Luxord can't be a Union member during the Keyblade War era or a Dandelion, reasons being:

1). All the Union members were kids
2). All the other Dandelions excluding Elrena and the Union Leaders, were sealed in the data Daybreak Town due to the limited number of lifeboats.

Unless there's actually a reasonable possibility that he was somehow an ancient Keyblade wielder, or if he actually appears in Union χ[Cross], that line cannot be interpreted as referring to all of them.

And also, I haven't said this all over the internet. I've only mentioned this in one other place.
 
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Antifa Lockhart

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Well, in Japanese, there's no singular or plural tense (for example, 'apple' and 'apples' look the exact same). So, it can be translated as 'in order to find (an) ancient Keyblade wielder(s) inside/among the four of you'. It could be interpreted as all of them, one of them, or some of them. It's not exactly certain.

What kind of justification is that to assert that something canonical is a mistranslation?

You cannot say that it's a mistranslation if the context hasn't been revealed.

Xemnas says in both "the four of you are going to reveal_____." The particulars are vague in each instance, but outright saying it's a mistranslation at this point is spreading disinformation. Demyx and Luxord's pasts haven't been made clear, but there's more than one way of being ancient, and there's more than one way to have a sleeping "legacy." The Dandelions fates aren't yet made totally clear, and further, they are not the only "ancient" beings, because the Master's childhood Keyblade War was even farther in the past. We don't have enough information.
 

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1). All the Union members were kids
2). All the other Dandelions excluding Elrena and the Union Leaders, were sealed in the data Daybreak Town due to the limited number of lifeboats.
Wrong!

The first point is irrelevant, because Luxord could have gone through the same trajectory as Lauriam and Elrena did, and therefore is about the same age as them. The second one is false, because the same trick that allowed the Dandelions to transfer to other worldlines after the Keyblade War mentioned in Luxu's secret report cannot be the pods. The union leaders didn't know the function of the pods until Maleficent told it to Lauriam. It seems clear that they found an alternative way out.
 

Form Oblivion

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Xemnas says in both "the four of you are going to reveal_____." The particulars are vague in each instance, but outright saying it's a mistranslation at this point is spreading disinformation. Demyx and Luxord's pasts haven't been made clear, but there's more than one way of being ancient, and there's more than one way to have a sleeping "legacy." The Dandelions fates aren't yet made totally clear, and further, they are not the only "ancient" beings, because the Master's childhood Keyblade War was even farther in the past. We don't have enough information.
Mmm, you got me there. But despite that, the line is still mistranslated; the 'legacy' part, that is. There's no word that means 'legacy' in it, and that part caused some confusion. 'Legacy' is something that is passed down generations...but that doesn't make sense considering Marluxia and Larxene.

I also found this segment from the KHIII Ultimania:
In KH3, Xemnas explains that the reason ex-Organization members No. 9-12 were invited to the Organization was to search for (the ancient Keyblade wielders). The reason they were called together was because Xehanort thought that the ancient Keyblade wielders held the secret to the past fight of light and darkness—the Keyblade War.
Xehanort was trying to find out about the second Keyblade War, not the first one. So it wouldn't be reasonable for him to get someone from the Master's childhood.
(And one thing I forgot was Demyx's character file, which hinted at a connection between Demyx and the Master)
Wrong!

The first point is irrelevant, because Luxord could have gone through the same trajectory as Lauriam and Elrena did, and therefore is about the same age as them. The second one is false, because the same trick that allowed the Dandelions to transfer to other worldlines after the Keyblade War mentioned in Luxu's secret report cannot be the pods. The union leaders didn't know the function of the pods until Maleficent told it to Lauriam. It seems clear that they found an alternative way out.
Ah right! (Those Luxu Secret Reports keep tripping me up. As of right now, they don't even make sense lol)
But...something doesn't fit. Wouldn't Xigbar/Luxu recognize him if he were a Dandelion (he's literally been watching them this whole time after all)? If he were a Dandelion, why would Luxu question his identity in Re:Mind?? It doesn't make sense.
 

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Wouldn't Xigbar/Luxu recognize him if he were a Dandelion (he's literally been watching them this whole time after all)? If he were a Dandelion, why would Luxu question his identity in Re:Mind??
I actually hadn't thought about that before, but it still does fit really well to my understanding what happened. The idea is that something similar to what happened to Yozora also happened to the Player, transforming him/her into Ludor.
 
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I hope Luxord has some meaningful connection to Ava at least. Maybe he was a part of her union as well as the dandelions.

gambling, Ava-->greed, Luxord's original quest centered around cursed gold

come on. it writes itself, Nomura.
 

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Mmm, you got me there. But despite that, the line is still mistranslated; the 'legacy' part, that is. There's no word that means 'legacy' in it, and that part caused some confusion. 'Legacy' is something that is passed down generations...but that doesn't make sense considering Marluxia and Larxene.

I also found this segment from the KHIII Ultimania:

Xehanort was trying to find out about the second Keyblade War, not the first one. So it wouldn't be reasonable for him to get someone from the Master's childhood.
(And one thing I forgot was Demyx's character file, which hinted at a connection between Demyx and the Master)

What? The Japanese and English versions have been known to use different wording to clarifying things or make them just as vague when switching between languages. Just because the word "Legacy" wasn't a one-to-one doesn't mean it's a mistranslation. Are you being obtuse on purpose or do you have an "Adaption isn't as important as word-for-word" axe to grind?

Sometimes the entire sentence of the dialogue is rewritten and given totally different wording so that the point can be clarified or the scene flows better (Nomura confirms they do this in the BBS Ultimania).

If you sense some frustration or hostility in my post, it's mostly because there's been an ongoing culture class about translation and most of the time, the arguments are unfounded and lead to harassment of SE staff but also of the fan translators (I'm not accusing you of this at all, btw, it's just something that happens)
 
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Form Oblivion

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I actually hadn't thought about that before, but it still does fit really well to my understanding what happened. The idea is that something similar to what happened to Yozora also happened to the Player, transforming him/her into Ludor.
Ah I guess. Wait, but something's going on with Xehanort and Player, right? Xehanort is dreaming of the Player's memories for some reason. Would that fit if Luxord was the Player?
Is it confirmed that the Master of Masters took a pod?
It certainly was implied in the latest UX update, but it hasn't exactly been confirmed. I think?
What? The Japanese and English versions have been known to use different wording to clarifying things or make them just as vague when switching between languages. Just because the word "Legacy" wasn't a one-to-one doesn't mean it's a mistranslation. Are you being obtuse on purpose or do you have an "Adaption isn't as important as word-for-word" axe to grind?
It definitely doesn't have to be word-for-word. But 'legacy'...considering the ones actually from the past, it doesn't fit. Unless...they're supposed to be the legacy themselves (but does that even make sense)??
Sometimes the entire sentence of the dialogue is rewritten and given totally different wording so that the point can be clarified or the scene flows better (Nomura confirms they do this in the BBS Ultimania).
Oh really? Interesting.
Maybe it really is just Nomura making things vague. Lol, I have no clue!
 
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Sign

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Is it confirmed that the Master of Masters took a pod?
If he didn't, he wasted 3 minutes of our time talking about it lol

Presumably there's another machine set up elsewhere, as it looks like the primary ark was only ever set up with those 7 pods.

Ah I guess. Wait, but something's going on with Xehanort and Player, right? Xehanort is dreaming of the Player's memories for some reason. Would that fit if Luxord was the Player?
I don't know why people keep saying this when we saw Xehanort recalling memories where Player was not present in Episode 2. Whatever link he has with the age of fairy tales, it's a lot more complicated than just "Player is actually ______."
 
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Ah I guess. Wait, but something's going on with Xehanort and Player, right? Xehanort is dreaming of the Player's memories for some reason. Would that fit if Luxord was the Player?
Could be. The simplest theory is that either Ephemer or Skuld is showing the dreams, because they are the only characters present on both scenes we have seen. Ephemer is also confirmed to be able to do it, as he did show dreams to the Player before the Keyblade War. However, there is the problem that we don't know the rules of this, particularly what exactly it means to be Unchained. Does it give full access to other people's memories? If so, any of the union leaders, including the Player, could be doing it. Note that one of the reasons to use Unchained Mode X in VGA programming is gaining access to all of the video memory...

Also, those are not the only instances of strange dreams in the series. There is Sora at the very beginning of KH1, and there are Riku and Yozora at the end of ReMind. That last one especially is interesting, because there is the idea that Luxord was responsible of Yozora's dream.
 

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I don't know why people keep saying this when we saw Xehanort recalling memories where Player was not present in Episode 2. Whatever link he has with the age of fairy tales, it's a lot more complicated than just "Player is actually ______."
Oh my goodness, I keep forgetting about that part. I'm confused all over again.
I personally don't think Player actually is someone we've seen, mainly because it kind of ruins how Player has been our own character, but I do consider other people's theories about it!
(And there's also that thing Chirithy said about Player possibly having another version of himself/herself...)
Could be. The simplest theory is that either Ephemer or Skuld is showing the dreams, because they are the only characters present on both scenes we have seen. Ephemer is also confirmed to be able to do it, as he did show dreams to the Player before the Keyblade War. However, there is the problem that we don't know the rules of this, particularly what exactly it means to be Unchained. Does it give full access to other people's memories? If so, any of the union leaders, including the Player, could be doing it. Note that one of the reasons to use Unchained Mode X in VGA programming is gaining access to all of the video memory...
But Skuld isn't present during the time Xehanort has those dreams. She arrives in the era when Apprentice Xehanort was at Radiant Garden. So it'd be impossible for her to show dreams to him.
If Ephemer was showing dreams to Xehanort through the unchained state, that would mean Xehanort was very close to the unchained realm.

Speaking of dreams and memories, there's one line from DDD that caught my eye:
Ansem SoD: Dreams hold our memories. Sleep holds our dreams. And darkness - it holds our sleep.
 

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You aren't listening.

There are two sets of Arks. One in the digital world, one in the physical. The scene with Luxu and the true dandelion is happening in the physical world.

If Elrena is the true dandelion, how did she get to the physical world when all of the pods in the digital world are accounted for. There's no time difference. Maleficent had *just* left.
Well, looks like it isn't Elrena after all after what's happened in this month's update. Assuming the True Dandelion is Data Strelitzia, it'll be interesting to see how she gets integrated into the future of Kingdom Hearts.
 

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Well, looks like it isn't Elrena after all after what's happened in this month's update. Assuming the True Dandelion is Data Strelitzia, it'll be interesting to see how she gets integrated into the future of Kingdom Hearts.
Love the non-response acceptance of what I was saying.
 
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