Ariel Not Being a Princess of Heart

[Oracle Spockanort]

Hey, hey. No shaming my namesake! But yeah, homegirl was super thirsty. She wanted to learn as much as she could about the human world but she gets married, has a baby, then they build a god damn wall around the shore to limit their daughter's access to the sea.

You know, because Ariel wasn't originally this inquisitive girl who wanted to know and see. Like, really? Ideally I would have wanted Ariel to have locked herself up in a library to read & learn then, with some money saved up, started exploring the world to learn even more. Not get married to a Prince and then never leave home ever again.

 

[kuraudoVII]

Like this?

 

[Ventus_]

I love Ariel, but we're talking about a woman who gets married at 16 and knocked up as soon as she gets legs to spread. She's a total gold digger, too.

It can be assumed from the setting in the 'Human World' that at least the Disney Little Mermaid (which is what we're talking about after all) takes place either in the 18th or 19th century since automobiles were not present and we see Eric and Ariel traveling by horse and carriage. Point being that during this time period it was actually quite natural, expected even for a 16 year old young woman to be married and baring children. I know for a fact this was so in the 18th century being a huge fan of a vampire character whose human life took place then and thus researching it some.
Also if anyone has seen Tim Burton's adaption of Dark Shadows, which also features vampire character from the 18th century:
"15 and no husband? You best hurry up and put those birthing hips to good use less they shrivel up and ..."
I forget the rest of the line but you get the picture.
Ariel I am certain was from a time period where it was expected at the age of 15 to be married and baring children. Let alone 16.

 

[rac7d]

Agree to disagree, but why do you say that?

I mean, obviously, she's not a literal Princess of Heart, with a heart by definition of pure light, but there's nothing in her actions that make her any more 'impure' than any of the others.

Belle defies the norms of her social setting and enters a relationship with a monster. Jasmine defies her father and her society and runs away. Alice gets herself in to all sorts of trouble.

Sure, she's not as 'pure' as the original 3, but those ladies are fairly dull and 2-dimmensional.

Tell me honestly, didn't you wish Terra would just bitch-slap that vacuous look off of Snow White's face in BBS?

As far as the Princesses go, Ariel is as courageous as anyone, always willing to defy the potential consequences to do what she feels is right. Her moral compass is strong.

Her actions were selfish casued damdge that could only be repaired by the magic of disney. Mkaing a deal with the sewitch was a bad idea (Listen to the jamaican crab) Her choice to defy her father almost casued the end of her kingdom, and possibly the mortal world. Very similar to merida in brave. That was not the way to get what they wanted.
She wanted to be human so bad she would give up her soul... and it was for a man...


Besides wasnt the real reason she coulndt be one was becasue she didnt have legs and would die if removed from the water.


I will let alice slide becasue she only there becasue at the time there were not many options like we have today. I am pretty sure she is not included in the preincess frnachise since Tianna has been introduced.

 

[Ruran]

Her actions were selfish casued damdge that could only be repaired by the magic of disney. Mkaing a deal with the sewitch was a bad idea (Listen to the jamaican crab) Her choice to defy her father almost casued the end of her kingdom, and possibly the mortal world. Very similar to merida in brave. That was not the way to get what they wanted.
She wanted to be human so bad she would give up her soul... and it was for a man...


Besides wasnt the real reason she coulndt be one was becasue she didnt have legs and would die if removed from the water.


I will let alice slide becasue she only there becasue at the time there were not many options like we have today. I am pretty sure she is not included in the preincess frnachise since Tianna has been introduced.

To be fair, that's something I blame more on the writing. In the original story, The Little Mermaid was way more sefish, but in the Disney version they play it up as Ariel being in the right.

Alice isn't an official Disney Princess. They didn't have many options at the time, but they had them. I don't know why they specifically chose Alice, but I don't think it matters much in the long run.

 

[Elysium]

I love Ariel, but we're talking about a woman who gets married at 16 and knocked up as soon as she gets legs to spread. She's a total gold digger, too.

You may be joking, I guess, but in case not: how can a princess be a gold digger? Her father's palace looks to be made of gold, so I'm sure she's worth a lot more than the prince.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

You may be joking, I guess, but in case not: how can a princess be a gold digger? Her father's palace looks to be made of gold, so I'm sure she's worth a lot more than the prince.

He's joking lol

 

[blksabbath74]

Her actions were selfish casued damdge that could only be repaired by the magic of disney. Mkaing a deal with the sewitch was a bad idea (Listen to the jamaican crab) Her choice to defy her father almost casued the end of her kingdom, and possibly the mortal world. Very similar to merida in brave. That was not the way to get what they wanted.
She wanted to be human so bad she would give up her soul... and it was for a man...

Besides wasnt the real reason she coulndt be one was becasue she didnt have legs and would die if removed from the water.

I’m not sure where the evidence is that she would die if removed from water. It would obviously pose special challenges.

In the grand scheme of things, King Triton was as much to blame as Ariel. His own (understandable, given the death of his wife) prejudices against humans caused the situation, his angry overreaction and destruction of Ariel’s collection drove her away and made her ripe for Ursula to take advantage of, and in then end, he selfishly chose to give Ursula his trident to save Ariel. Epic dumb move.

It’s not like she’s the only one guilty of making poor decisions…

• Sure, creepy old lady, I’ll eat your apple…
• I’m going to follow that rabbit down a hole…
• I’ll just show Gastonne the Beast in this magic mirror…
• Look, a spinning wheel …

I will let alice slide becasue she only there becasue at the time there were not many options like we have today. I am pretty sure she is not included in the preincess frnachise since Tianna has been introduced.

You could not be more wrong, Ariel is very much an official Disney Princess.

Alice isn't an official Disney Princess. They didn't have many options at the time, but they had them. I don't know why they specifically chose Alice, but I don't think it matters much in the long run.

It doesn't, although I still maintain they decided to use Alice instead of Ariel so that Kairi wouldn't be the only POH who wasn't a princess Alice pre-establishes that.

 

[Ruran]

I’m not sure where the evidence is that she would die if removed from water. It would obviously pose special challenges.

In the grand scheme of things, King Triton was as much to blame as Ariel. His own (understandable, given the death of his wife) prejudices against humans caused the situation, his angry overreaction and destruction of Ariel’s collection drove her away and made her ripe for Ursula to take advantage of, and in then end, he selfishly chose to give Ursula his trident to save Ariel. Epic dumb move.

It’s not like she’s the only one guilty of making poor decisions…

• Sure, creepy old lady, I’ll eat your apple…
• I’m going to follow that rabbit down a hole…
• I’ll just show Gastonne the Beast in this magic mirror…
• Look, a spinning wheel …

You could not be more wrong, Ariel is very much an official Disney Princess.



It doesn't, although I still maintain they decided to use Alice instead of Ariel so that Kairi wouldn't be the only POH who wasn't a princess Alice pre-establishes that.

To be fair, with the exception of Belle, none of the others caused any widespread harm of their own volition. Snow White only caused harm to herself, but she had no reason to distrust a little old lady giving her free food.

Alice was dreaming, she never actually went down the rabbit hole or to Wonderland.

Aurora was hypnotized and had no reason to be wary of a spinning wheel anyway. That's like me being afraid of a sewing machine for no apparent reason.

Ariel went to Ursula knowing full well that she was a witch and couldn't be trusted. Even with her drama with her daddy, it started because she fell in love with someone she didn't even know and was already willing to risk a lot for the surface world. Granted, both Ariel and her father are to blame and love at first site is a staple of Disney, but of all the Disney princesses, I do think Ariel is one of the ones hit by the stupid stick the hardest.

I reckon that's one of the reasons though they could have used some other girl, like Wendy. Why they chose Alice among all the other girls? *shrugs*

iunno.

There seems to be a thing againt Alice for reasons.

 

[blksabbath74]

To be fair, with the exception of Belle, none of the others caused any widespread harm of their own volition. Snow White only caused harm to herself, but she had no reason to distrust a little old lady giving her free food.

Alice was dreaming, she never actually went down the rabbit hole or to Wonderland.

Aurora was hypnotized and had no reason to be wary of a spinning wheel anyway. That's like me being afraid of a sewing machine for no apparent reason.

Ariel went to Ursula knowing full well that she was a witch and couldn't be trusted. Even with her drama with her daddy, it started because she fell in love with someone she didn't even know and was already willing to risk a lot for the surface world. Granted, both Ariel and her father are to blame and love at first site is a staple of Disney, but of all the Disney princesses, I do think Ariel is one of the ones hit by the stupid stick the hardest.

I reckon that's one of the reasons though they could have used some other girl, like Wendy. Why they chose Alice among all the other girls? *shrugs*

iunno.

There seems to be a thing againt Alice for reasons.

Well, in the original Disney movie, Alice didn't realy DO much of anything, aside from eat things that changed her size and cry in the forest...and there wasn't really much in the way of resolution.

I can see your points on Ariel, but I still don't think that there is any real stain on her heart that would prevent her from being a POH, other than the fact that she just isn't.

 

[Elysium]

I don't know. If Ariel's really so stupid, why would she expect other people to be hurt? The deal was that SHE would belong to Ursula, not that Ursula would become Queen of the Sea. I don't find Ariel anymore selfish or stupid than any of the other princesses, btw. This does follow a scene where her father blows up everything she owns just because she didn't let a human drown to death...

He's joking lol

lol My bad. >>;

 

[kupo1121]

Her actions were selfish casued damdge that could only be repaired by the magic of disney. Mkaing a deal with the sewitch was a bad idea (Listen to the jamaican crab) Her choice to defy her father almost casued the end of her kingdom, and possibly the mortal world. Very similar to merida in brave. That was not the way to get what they wanted.
She wanted to be human so bad she would give up her soul... and it was for a man...

Yup, which brings up one of my favorite lines in "Poor Unfortunate Souls."

Ariel: If I become human, I"ll never be with my father or sisters again.
Ursula: BUT...you'll have your man!

Ariel chose "her man" :lol:

In the grand scheme of things, King Triton was as much to blame as Ariel. His own (understandable, given the death of his wife) prejudices against humans caused the situation, his angry overreaction and destruction of Ariel’s collection drove her away and made her ripe for Ursula to take advantage of, and in then end, he selfishly chose to give Ursula his trident to save Ariel. Epic dumb move.

While I do think Triton was wrong in not trying to reason with Ariel (from what we could see) he definitely was not as wrong as he was. You have to remember that the woman he loved was killed by humans in a boat so he at least had reason to view them as barbaric. As far as we know, I don't know what Ariel had seen of humans that made their world so "dreamy" since we know the human world isn't perfect in the Disney universe, there is still evil on land.

I don't know. If Ariel's really so stupid, why would she expect other people to be hurt? The deal was that SHE would belong to Ursula, not that Ursula would become Queen of the Sea. I don't find Ariel anymore selfish or stupid than any of the other princesses, btw. This does follow a scene where her father blows up everything she owns just because she didn't let a human drown to death...

lol My bad. >>;

This is the one argument I think in favor of Ariel. While WE know Ursula was evil and Triton obviously warned Ariel about Ursula, Triton also warned Ariel against humans and destroyed her prized possessions which clearly, were a bit out of proportions, even if he did have a history with them. Not to mention we all do things we don't mean when we're mad, so I don't think Ariel was too wrong in her thought process, but in the long run, it definitely wasn't smart...

 

[Nayru's Love]

You may be joking, I guess, but in case not: how can a princess be a gold digger? Her father's palace looks to be made of gold, so I'm sure she's worth a lot more than the prince.

Going from royals to royals? She don't exactly live cheap.

He's joking lol

Mostly, anyways. :x

I don't know. If Ariel's really so stupid, why would she expect other people to be hurt? The deal was that SHE would belong to Ursula, not that Ursula would become Queen of the Sea. I don't find Ariel anymore selfish or stupid than any of the other princesses, btw. This does follow a scene where her father blows up everything she owns just because she didn't let a human drown to death...

She was naive, though, in the sense that it never occurred to her that she could've been and was exploited, her being the daughter of Triton. That's what being young is all about: Having an innocent passion for the unknown that unfortunately can distract you from the bad things that could happen.

 

[rac7d]

You could not be more wrong, Ariel is very much an official Disney Princess.

I was talking about Alice, she is no longer included among the disney princess, Ariel has always been one of the franchise. But lets all remember that in the game ariel was still a mermaid during kh1, if she was kidknapped she would die becasue she would be out of the water for too long.

I’m not sure where the evidence is that she would die if removed from water. It would obviously pose special challenges.

In the grand scheme of things, King Triton was as much to blame as Ariel. His own (understandable, given the death of his wife) prejudices against humans caused the situation, his angry overreaction and destruction of Ariel’s collection drove her away and made her ripe for Ursula to take advantage of, and in then end, he selfishly chose to give Ursula his trident to save Ariel. Epic dumb move.

It’s not like she’s the only one guilty of making poor decisions…

• Sure, creepy old lady, I’ll eat your apple…
• I’m going to follow that rabbit down a hole…
• I’ll just show Gastonne the Beast in this magic mirror…
• Look, a spinning wheel …

Bell did that prove her father was not crazy to keep him out of the asylum. She did not show it directly to Gaston, but to everyone, so they would belive her. She knew Gaston was bad, but not so vain and desperate that he would manipulate the mens fear to kill a beast so mabey bell might change her mind and marry him. Bell has been the most intelligent disney princess until Tia was revealed

 

[Max]

There seems to be a thing againt Alice for reasons.

Probably because she's a big old drug head

 

[Ventus_]

But lets all remember that in the game ariel was still a mermaid during kh1, if she was kidknapped she would die becasue she would be out of the water for too long.

*Sigh* How much of this thread have you read? This has been covered.
1.) The 'Part of Your World' reprise scene in the film having taken place through a transition from night to day proves that Disney did not follow that lore and that Ariel can survive out of water.

2.) Ursula could have turned her human to have her transported to Hallow Bastian.
Max, I believe it was and I shared a similar suggestion of how this concept could have fit into the storyline earlier in this thread.

 

[Gram]

Probably because she's a big old drug head

Nah man dont dis the psychedelic queen like that, she was all about the rabit holes and mysterious drinks offered by talking doors~

 

[kuraudoVII]

Nah man dont dis the psychedelic queen like that, she was all about the rabit holes and mysterious drinks offered by talking doors~

Is it weird that I read that with the voice of that surfer fish dude from Spongebob Sqarepants in my head?

[video=youtube;7MgOsNM-V4o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MgOsNM-V4o[/video]

 

[kuraudoVII]

Back on topic, I can't really say much that hasn't already been said by everyone else including myself, but at this point, I think it's safe to say that there was more than likely a case of personal preference when Nomura decided to make Alice a Princess of Heart with Ariel as a party member in Atlantica? The only other reasons that I can fathom are that the team wanted to have at least one female party member to assist Sora while Alice being a non-Princess would make Kairi - an original character - being a Princess of Heart a little less out of place.

Keep in mind that this is just an idea...