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KHUX ► Are the Foretellers truly good guys?



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Sonofjafar

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Most of the stuff I’ve seen the Foretellers do this far has had me doubting their moral superiority or at the very least their judgement of what is considered good. They were willing to send thousands of children to their deaths, started a war that literally tore the world apart, and have yet to question the guy that told them to do it. At this point, it wouldn’t surprise me if the Player basically becoming Xehanort wasn’t part of their plans as well.
 

Sephiroth0812

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As far as I remember the Foretellers were never advertised or introduced as definitive "good guys" to begin with. There was always a certain ambiguity about them even if there are certainly good intentions to observe with several of them.

They were only introduced as the "very first" Keyblade Masters and it is part of the lore, as mentioned by Yen Sid (either in DDD or KH3, don't remember which one) that all Keyblades, which were originally created as copies of the X-blade, were first created as a tool to conquer light. The notion of using the Keyblades to protect the light came only after the Great Keyblade War.

Then there is of course also the fact introduced in the Union X-finale that the Foretellers all have five of the seven "Greater Darknesses" sealed inside their hearts (number six and seven are in Luxu and the Master of Masters respectively) and while these Darknesses may be unable to completely possess the Foretellers, their presence may to a certain degree influence them and their decisions.

Furthermore as shown in X [Back Cover], much of the morally questionable stuff the Foretellers do and allow to happen is also because they themselves become more and more irate as well as desperate over the course of the story all in different ways.

In the end they're definitely characters placed in a grey zone, not exactly paragons of good yet also not completely evil villains either.
 

Silver_Soul

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I think they believe they are good. After all they are protecting the light. But is light actually good. Who knows.

Them being named after the deadly sins is a major 🚩
 

Xickin

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Well they're definitely on the "Greater Good" spectrum (from what I can tell). MoM obviously hasn't told them all what the grand plan is, but they're following him wholeheartedly.

To be honest, I stopped trusting them when we were made aware of them having foreknowledge of the Keyblade War (especially when the Master of Masters said it was "for them", which makes more sense in hindsight).

I think they carried out the Keyblade War as per MoM's instructions. It really struck me as odd when in KHUX Back Cover Ira and Aced were on good terms the last time we saw them together, but then hated one another in KHUX. I think they were just trying to sell it to the rest of the wielders.
 

Violet Pluto

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Well they're definitely on the "Greater Good" spectrum (from what I can tell). MoM obviously hasn't told them all what the grand plan is, but they're following him wholeheartedly.

To be honest, I stopped trusting them when we were made aware of them having foreknowledge of the Keyblade War (especially when the Master of Masters said it was "for them", which makes more sense in hindsight).

I think they carried out the Keyblade War as per MoM's instructions. It really struck me as odd when in KHUX Back Cover Ira and Aced were on good terms the last time we saw them together, but then hated one another in KHUX. I think they were just trying to sell it to the rest of the wielders.
Personally, Aced in Back Cover never really got over his jealousy towards Ira, so though they did somewhat make up, they still had animosity towards each other. This wasn't helped by the fact that Aced started getting into a fight with the PC, so having some problems with that would make this worse.

They did know that the Keyblade War was coming but had tried to avoid it at first, only giving in once they stopped trusting one another. That's pretty outright stated in Back Cover and UX, while characters were alone or with other Foretellers. I'm pretty sure they weren't trying to sell the people on the idea of the Keyblade War. In fact, it's very much implied if not outright said that Ava learned something the others didn't know and was disgusted enough by it that she abandoned being a Foreteller entirely.
 

Xickin

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Personally, Aced in Back Cover never really got over his jealousy towards Ira, so though they did somewhat make up, they still had animosity towards each other. This wasn't helped by the fact that Aced started getting into a fight with the PC, so having some problems with that would make this worse.

They did know that the Keyblade War was coming but had tried to avoid it at first, only giving in once they stopped trusting one another. That's pretty outright stated in Back Cover and UX, while characters were alone or with other Foretellers. I'm pretty sure they weren't trying to sell the people on the idea of the Keyblade War. In fact, it's very much implied if not outright said that Ava learned something the others didn't know and was disgusted enough by it that she abandoned being a Foreteller entirely.
See, my head canon/thought process is that the Foretellers were given an explanation like Ava was by Luxu. However, she was the only one that didn't have a conviction to the war (as can be interpreted by the battle with PC), hence why she never showed up at the Keyblade Graveyard in 3. To make it seem believable and have the other wielders fight with them they continued to act in animosity towards one another (hence why Aced and Ira got heated again in KHUX, but were actually mending their relationship in BC). I think this point is valid because they didn't seem too surprised when they were summoned by Luxu. Like, sure, they asked good questions and had some holes in their knowledge upon arrival, but they didn't seem freaked out in the least by their change in scenery.

So the main point I'm trying to make is that no, the Foretellers are not bad, but they're putting their faith in someone why is morally questionable.
 

Violet Pluto

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See, my head canon/thought process is that the Foretellers were given an explanation like Ava was by Luxu. However, she was the only one that didn't have a conviction to the war (as can be interpreted by the battle with PC), hence why she never showed up at the Keyblade Graveyard in 3. To make it seem believable and have the other wielders fight with them they continued to act in animosity towards one another (hence why Aced and Ira got heated again in KHUX, but were actually mending their relationship in BC). I think this point is valid because they didn't seem too surprised when they were summoned by Luxu. Like, sure, they asked good questions and had some holes in their knowledge upon arrival, but they didn't seem freaked out in the least by their change in scenery.
She wasn't supposed to be at the war in the first place. She was supposed to go with the Dandelions, MoM told her not to get involved with the Keyblade War. The fact that she did, and then didn't show up in KH3 is a major shift from the plan laid out, and is a result of Luxu going against what MoM said to do.

The traitor seems to be Luxu, and all signs in the game point to him as he bears the Recusant sigil (He has an X in his name unlike all the others, and later works for and becomes half Xehanort, who is tied to said sigil) he pretty outright goes against previously established orders multiple times, and he knows MoM's plans well enough to change them in the first place. I say this to explain why Ava being told this info is enough for her to break off. She wasn't supposed to know, and Luxu was told to stay away from Daybreak in the first place, and to keep his purpose secret. He's also shown at the end of the flashbacks questioning MoM's motives and methods, I wouldn't say it's too much to assume he's quietly rebelling.

Finally they were "called" to the future, and in the Keyblade Graveyard. The fact that they were called is hazy since we don't know where they were, but we do know that the last place they were seen was the Keyblade Graveyard, so there was no real change in scenery from our perspective, and if they came from after the Keyblade War, there shouldn't be any discrepancy in their eyes.
 

Xickin

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She wasn't supposed to be at the war in the first place. She was supposed to go with the Dandelions, MoM told her not to get involved with the Keyblade War. The fact that she did, and then didn't show up in KH3 is a major shift from the plan laid out, and is a result of Luxu going against what MoM said to do.

The traitor seems to be Luxu, and all signs in the game point to him as he bears the Recusant sigil (He has an X in his name unlike all the others, and later works for and becomes half Xehanort, who is tied to said sigil) he pretty outright goes against previously established orders multiple times, and he knows MoM's plans well enough to change them in the first place. I say this to explain why Ava being told this info is enough for her to break off. She wasn't supposed to know, and Luxu was told to stay away from Daybreak in the first place, and to keep his purpose secret. He's also shown at the end of the flashbacks questioning MoM's motives and methods, I wouldn't say it's too much to assume he's quietly rebelling.

Finally they were "called" to the future, and in the Keyblade Graveyard. The fact that they were called is hazy since we don't know where they were, but we do know that the last place they were seen was the Keyblade Graveyard, so there was no real change in scenery from our perspective, and if they came from after the Keyblade War, there shouldn't be any discrepancy in their eyes.
I feel like if the MoM has the power to see the future, he knew ahead of time that she would actually be participating in the Keyblade War. Maybe some manipulation on his part for a plot point we nothing about yet? Who can say?

Well, and the fact that MoM outright stated he was "Luxu, the traitor". So the MoM knows what Luxu is doing, and is more or less counting on it (which just circles back to my Ava point of MoM knowing about Ava's deviation)

No, there isn't, and while this is a Nomura plot (and this might be stretching things a bit) I think them being teleported would've raised some eyebrows if they really had no idea.

PS I don't know why this stands out to me, but Aced asking Luxu what his role was gives me the feeling (no evidence) that they've been waiting to know what everyone's role is in the MoM's grand plan, most of all Luxu.
 

Violet Pluto

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I feel like if the MoM has the power to see the future, he knew ahead of time that she would actually be participating in the Keyblade War. Maybe some manipulation on his part for a plot point we nothing about yet? Who can say?

Well, and the fact that MoM outright stated he was "Luxu, the traitor". So the MoM knows what Luxu is doing, and is more or less counting on it (which just circles back to my Ava point of MoM knowing about Ava's deviation)

No, there isn't, and while this is a Nomura plot (and this might be stretching things a bit) I think them being teleported would've raised some eyebrows if they really had no idea.

PS I don't know why this stands out to me, but Aced asking Luxu what his role was gives me the feeling (no evidence) that they've been waiting to know what everyone's role is in the MoM's grand plan, most of all Luxu.
I'll start with the last part first. Yeah, no one knew each-other's roles, it's why people started to get suspicious of Ava when they found out she was recruiting people from the other Unions. Keep in mind that MoM never said to keep the roles secret outside of Luxu, so them doing this is actually just because of mistrust. They would probably be very curious seeing as he's the only one who didn't stay.

I don't know how much the foretellers know about being transported into the future, but I at least know that the last part of the future they did know was Sora losing in KH3 before he turned back time. It'd be a surprise to come past that if they knew how far in the future they would be taken at least.

I forgot that MoM called him that, so really I didn't need to explain that... Great...

Anyway, about the first point, the way I interpreted the BC movie was that MoM gave them legitimate advice that would have helped them keep the light safe but left the important parts to interpretation because he was planning for them to all fail in their tasks. Aced would have been great as a second in command, but MoM never assuaged his complex about being second; Ira would have made a better leader if he was more decisive and so on.
 

Xickin

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I don't know how much the foretellers know about being transported into the future, but I at least know that the last part of the future they did know was Sora losing in KH3 before he turned back time. It'd be a surprise to come past that if they knew how far in the future they would be taken at least.

Anyway, about the first point, the way I interpreted the BC movie was that MoM gave them legitimate advice that would have helped them keep the light safe but left the important parts to interpretation because he was planning for them to all fail in their tasks. Aced would have been great as a second in command, but MoM never assuaged his complex about being second; Ira would have made a better leader if he was more decisive and so on.
When/where was that confirmed?

Oh for sure that's how it went. I responded to a thread talking all about how the Foretellers matched their sins to a T, despite some of them not matching the conventional sense. Ira is the leader, but his rashness and rage threw him off in his decision making, Invi was made the second in command, she was envious of anybody close to the master and did her best to prove she was the superior lieutenant, Ava wanting to protect everyone (greed), Gula and his hunger for the truth and lux, and finally Aced, who disobeyed and went against his teaching (which is lesser known point of sloth). Luxu seemed to be the only one that never actually gave into his sin, he faked wanting MX's Keyblade as a performance to throw MX off.
 

Violet Pluto

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When/where was that confirmed?
The last line in the BoP was something like "And so the light expired and the Darkness reigned" or something to that effect. When everyone loses and Sora gives into despair but before going back in time, that text shows up on screen. MoM also said something about wanting to be in the era beyond what he could see, so it's logical to assume that past Sora going back in time is something he wasn't able to record.
 

Xickin

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The last line in the BoP was something like "And so the light expired and the Darkness reigned" or something to that effect. When everyone loses and Sora gives into despair but before going back in time, that text shows up on screen. MoM also said something about wanting to be in the era beyond what he could see, so it's logical to assume that past Sora going back in time is something he wasn't able to record.
Oh okay, that. Sorry, from how I read it it sounded like you were saying the Foretellers were privy to the knowledge of Sora's existence and whatnot.

I wonder now though if MoM can account for time travel shenanigans? Does he see the absolute future, like, the final thread? Or does he see whatever are the most likely, then accounts for all of them? Because if he sees the absolute future, then what he claims to be for coming events is in fact false (until someone sets the necessary events in motion). However, if he can see multiple futures, that means he's not absolute and his warnings are just that, warnings of what could be.
 

cakito123

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KHIII shows that in the end, everyone in KH will be fiiiine, although everyone will indiviually suffer and cause suffering for others even if that's not what they intended.

The foretellers plot in Back Cover and UnionX to me seems a lot like that same concept - bunch of people being manipulated by someone to the point of hurting everyone around them and themselves, but then in the end accepting the truth of their darkness by making amends and discovering the real culprit.
Or straight out dying in sadness i dunno

I find it interesting that the FT(foretellers) are actually time traveling from the past, in the KHIII scene, if I got it right. So their anger/hurt towards one another, for them, has been like, what, 2 hours?......... it's right here in the present timeline now.
If KHIV already dives into the FT's purpose, I'm sure they'll be like Riku in KH1 ~ doing bad things but thinking it's for the greater good ~ vibes
now bad guys
eventually allies
 
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