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Are Lea and Isa a canon couple



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May-Jor

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TBH I'm not really seeing the "Sokai isn't canon" argument, and this is coming from someone who thinks the relationship is poorly executed. Though it might be too much to say that they are officially a couple, but there's no denying with how their relationship is portrayed throughout the story that they share romantic feelings for one another. That coupled in with the fact that the obligatory "male and his female love-interest" relationships never need to be overtly explicit or well developed to end up getting validated by canon.

Yeah, Sora and Riku have a waaaay more developed relationship, likewise with most friendships in fiction, so you'd think they'd work together. But most of the middle-aged men and women who tend to write these stories don't share the same thoughts. To them, there's the characters who are going to be best buddies and the story revolves around how buddy-buddy these two are, then there are the designated love interest who only exists to be motivation and then paired-off with by the end of the story. And this isn't even a gay v. straight thing, either. Even the well-developed male/female friendships get shafted in end. In conclusion, canonical romance in fiction sucks.
 

MrFranklin95

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No offense but you only like the idea of LeaIsa cause it don’t get in the way of sokai a lot of sokais are like that soriku has way more evidence if we have to compare than LeaIsa. Anyway it don’t matter cause neither pairing would happening but soriku has most potential aside from xehaqus if they want a gay pairing those two are way more preferable and make sense narrative wise than LeaIsa which is my least fav ship along with sokai and Riku with anyone who’s not Sora

That's a pretty blatant accusation to make. Also, I have my reason on why I don't think Sora/Riku doesn't work on a narrative-level. But then again, neither does any other ship besides Sora and Kairi anyway. Me choosing Isa/Lea is literal just preference because at the end of the day, especially this series, it does not matter. Besides, if Sora/Riku can work, I dont see why Isa/lea can't either?
 
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Idkanymore92

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That's a pretty blatant accusation to make. Also, I have my reason on why I don't think Sora/Riku doesn't work on a narrative-level. But then again, neither does any other ship besides Sora and Kairi anyway. Me choosing Isa/Lea is literal just preference because at the end of the day. Besides, if Sora/Riku can work, I dont see why Isa/lea can't either?

I admit I just don’t like lea with Isa that’s the truth also I just don’t think it was ever given any evidence they like each other as more than friends but with soriku at least on rikus end it does that make sense
 

Swing

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Nah, don't forget that KH is still a Disney property and they are still a bit touchy with that subject. Although a lot of their new TV shows like Star vs. the Forces of Evil, the DuckTales reboot, and the Owl House feature characters from the LGBT community. But... those shows barely get any attention in the mainstream, KH on the other is big, so, they might be a bit careful with Lea and Isa as a couple. Disney kinda should decide on which side they are, they can not be for LGBT-characters but try everything to hide them from the mainstream eye.
 

Idkanymore92

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TBH I'm not really seeing the "Sokai isn't canon" argument, and this is coming from someone who thinks the relationship is poorly executed. Though it might be too much to say that they are officially a couple, but there's no denying with how their relationship is portrayed throughout the story that they share romantic feelings for one another. That coupled in with the fact that the obligatory "male and his female love-interest" relationships never need to be overtly explicit or well developed to end up getting validated by canon.

Yeah, Sora and Riku have a waaaay more developed relationship, likewise with most friendships in fiction, so you'd think they'd work together. But most of the middle-aged men and women who tend to write these stories don't share the same thoughts. To them, there's the characters who are going to be best buddies and the story revolves around how buddy-buddy these two are, then there are the designated love interest who only exists to be motivation and then paired-off with by the end of the story. And this isn't even a gay v. straight thing, either. Even the well-developed male/female friendships get shafted in end. In conclusion, canonical romance in fiction sucks.

I don’t think sokai it canon yet but I wouldn’t be shocked they will it really is dragged out with all these games they barely interact and then after 20 years Kairi was kinda shoved in our faces on the dlc.I don’t like sokai but if it happens I accept it I’ll never like it or care about I just hope it doesn’t come as the exclusion of Riku i mean Sora barely even cared about Riku after second half of kh3 or dlc. I mean it messed up the destiny trio which makes it more annoying that how I feel at least. I also feel if they never intended for soriku or at least Riku to seems like he’s in love with Sora then they went overboard with the baiting I mean I feel they purposely make it seem like Riku is in love with Sora all rhat to be erased with sokait then throw Riku with any girl is going against what we were shown. I kinda wish other characters get the spotlight I’m tired of playing as sora especially if it’ll be about him and Kairi they aren’t my fav characters. I also feel with this series the makers need to make it clear are they going for a game about relationships or a game about friendship I mean kh3 had a lot of the topic of love and learning what trill love is with Sora seeing the Disney couples which makes me think the game isn’t just about friendships and I hope if they do make it about relationships its not just sokai to me they are too typical of a couple. Also I wish they would make it clear who likes who if they like anyone at all instead of making people get into fights over ships. I just feel like this game is more stressful than enjoyable yet I still want see what happens
 

Cumguardian69

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MrFranklin why do you think SoRi doesn't work on a narrative level? Im curious

Hard mode: don't reference Xion in any capacity
 

Idkanymore92

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Nah, don't forget that KH is still a Disney property and they are still a bit touchy with that subject. Although a lot of their new TV shows like Star vs. the Forces of Evil, the DuckTales reboot, and the Owl House feature characters from the LGBT community. But... those shows barely get any attention in the mainstream, KH on the other is big, so, they might be a bit careful with Lea and Isa as a couple. Disney kinda should decide on which side they are, they can not be for LGBT-characters but try everything to hide them from the mainstream eye.


Thats why this game makes me crazy they never making which way they want to go clear. If they intend sokai they need to stop baiting soriku and put effort into sokai which I don’t like but whatever if xehaqus used to date say it don’t hide it. If they actually want lea and Isa as couple I rather know now then since i personally hate it and it ruin the series for me I don’t want to waste time hoping who i ship ain’t gonna happen. I mean I still don’t see why they believe lea is in love with Isa but I want to know what the facts are this way I don’t get stressed and could move on if i don’t like it
 

Chie

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TBH I'm not really seeing the "Sokai isn't canon" argument, and this is coming from someone who thinks the relationship is poorly executed. Though it might be too much to say that they are officially a couple, but there's no denying with how their relationship is portrayed throughout the story that they share romantic feelings for one another.
I mean, source? Nothing romantic is ever actually stated, we just assume it because main boy and main girl and they care for eachother. And I mean, yeah, that's how it works in mass media fiction and the writers might assume that we will assume it. But in the actual text of the games I don't think romance even existing for these people is ever actually indicated. At the most Sora and Kairi sitting on the tree together away from everyone else is a bit intimate. (I almost typed 'Sora and Riku' the first time, lol.)

I guess at this point it's splitting hairs on what 'canon' means. I pretty much agree with you about what the writers are likely assuming, but my thought is that it's not really canon if they've failed to portray it in the games at all.
 

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... Can y’all not just enjoy a story... without desperately searching for confirmation of a romantic interests? Kingdom Hearts has been around for nearly two decades and at no point has ever focused on romance with OC.
When it comes to this series, you rlly shouldn’t ever expect anything romantic from anyone. like no matter how justified or not it has been by character interactions the story simply isn’t focused on that. Shipping is totally okay (Aqua x Lea 4 lyfe) but the writers have not done anything to make it seem like they are “baiting” us. The only plausible exception being Kairi with Sora mainly in KH2 but at the end of the day, this is so insignificant to the grand tapestry that is the KH story.
 

Idkanymore92

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If they don’t want romance they should not do sokai either they threw Kairi in our faces in the dlc like I said Riku is soras best friend whether you believe in romantic or not he flat out ignores rikus existence in the dlc and when he said in graveyard in front of Riku that everyone was gone like he was nothing the bonds of friendship weren’t really showing there on soras side but if they want it to be about friends no couples then including sokai. I would like a side series with other characters especially lea who I love I want to see him and other adult characters I’m tired of the sokai and people arguing about sokai I really dont care about them I’m not looking forward to more Kairi stuff in khmom

I do hope at least maybe in khmom we see skuld subject x when kairi has flashbacks. I’m interested in her lea and Isa reuniting though who knows what game that’ll happen in.
 

May-Jor

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... Can y’all not just enjoy a story... without desperately searching for confirmation of a romantic interests? Kingdom Hearts has been around for nearly two decades and at no point has ever focused on romance with OC.
When it comes to this series, you rlly shouldn’t ever expect anything romantic from anyone. like no matter how justified or not it has been by character interactions the story simply isn’t focused on that. Shipping is totally okay (Aqua x Lea 4 lyfe) but the writers have not done anything to make it seem like they are “baiting” us. The only plausible exception being Kairi with Sora mainly in KH2 but at the end of the day, this is so insignificant to the grand tapestry that is the KH story.

I agree that romance is very limited in the story, however, what little of it there is is very significant to the plot, aaaaaand it's not handled all too well. They really drive home the point of how "Kairi is the light", "Losing Kairi is the reason this journey all started", drawing parallels to the Disney characters' canonically romantic relationships (I'm aware of Riku being compared as well), etc etc. Not to mention the future story arc coming up continuing to explore that relationship further. Considering that Sora's closest relationships as well as some mobile gatcha shit and Disney advertisements are the biggest focus of the franchise, it's fair to expect a bit more from that. But yeah, when it comes to romance outside our main protag, it's mostly just shipping on the fans' part.

I mean, source? Nothing romantic is ever actually stated, we just assume it because main boy and main girl and they care for eachother. And I mean, yeah, that's how it works in mass media fiction and the writers might assume that we will assume it. But in the actual text of the games I don't think romance even existing for these people is ever actually indicated. At the most Sora and Kairi sitting on the tree together away from everyone else is a bit intimate. (I almost typed 'Sora and Riku' the first time, lol.)

Typical g-rated love-dovey visual ques and gesture, other characters commenting on their relationship, even refering to it as romantic, like I mentioned above parallels being drawn with explicit romances, all this stuff occuring multiple times throughout the series, especially KH2 and KH3/remind. They don't need to kiss and say "I love you" for there to be any romantic indication. Sora and Kairi don't interact much, but when they do it's in a very different way from how every other OC does. Most of the cast are very emotional and affectionate towards one another, but it's not really the same. If Lea and Isa acted the way they do the games would be censored in several Asian/Eastern European countries.

I guess at this point it's splitting hairs on what 'canon' means. I pretty much agree with you about what the writers are likely assuming, but my thought is that it's not really canon if they've failed to portray it in the games at all.

Err, yeah, that's a common issue. A pair is never written in a believable way but they end up together in the end anyways because they just do. I have so many examples I could ramble on about but that's not a good idea, heh.
 
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Idkanymore92

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I agree that romance is very limited in the story, however, what little of it there is is very significant to the plot, aaaaaand it's not handled all too well. They really drive home the point of how "Kairi is the light", "Losing Kairi is the reason this journey all started", drawing parallels to the Disney characters' canonically romantic relationships (I'm aware of Riku being compared as well), etc etc. Not to mention the future story arc coming up continuing to explore that relationship further. Considering that Sora's closest relationships as well as some mobile gatcha shit and Disney advertisements are the biggest focus of the franchise, it's fair to expect a bit more from that. But yeah, when it comes to romance outside our main protag, it's mostly just shipping on the fans' part.


I told you who I ship i don’t want to mention on here I’m hoping that could be a possibility in some way since they are adults hopefully other is an adult now to it’s more fitting than a teen romance id be more interested in that. Also I hope no matter what happens with sokai riku isnt thrown with any girl we could all agree his motivation platonic or not has been Sora nothing else makes sense
 

welken

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I get a romantic impression from Lea and Isa's relationship, but it's imbalanced and probably not meant to be, even in a more sensual worldline. The dynamic reminds me of any BL/yaoi villain plot. Axel is the passionate seme to Roxas's confused uke, and Saix is the bitter controlling ex-flame who would rather destroy their relationship than see Axel happy with someone else.
I'm sure he'll go through that all over again when Subject X enters the picture. Regardless of whatever becomes of that whole thing, I think it will remain true that Lea is Isa's favorite person, though the feeling may not be equally reciprocated. But, you never know. They're definitely connected in a special way. I like their complimentary contrast. Lea looks like less of an outsider with Isa nearby.

I'm of the opinion that the underlying homo vibe so many people get from KH is not by accident. Just like in so much shonen, it's supposed to be a tease. To confirm anything would spoil the exoticism, and break the rules, because this flavor of tension is dependent on taboo.

Regardless, I hope they explore Isa's character more. His aspect being Moon makes him so mysterious, like what is that all about? What is the deal with the moon in KH in general?
I'd be surprised if he isn't tormented by guilt and prone to jealousy. Of any character left smiling after KH3, he seems the most likely to once again be wrought with negativity. For whatever sacrifices are worth at this point, Isa seems like the type who's going to sacrifice himself to save Lea, or someone Lea cares about.
 

Swing

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Thats why this game makes me crazy they never making which way they want to go clear. If they intend sokai they need to stop baiting soriku and put effort into sokai which I don’t like but whatever if xehaqus used to date say it don’t hide it.

Is SoraxRiku even an official thing? Sounds more like a fanmade couple like AshxMisty in Pokémon or LinkxSidon in Breath of the Wild.
 

AmaryllisMoth

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I mean, source? Nothing romantic is ever actually stated, we just assume it because main boy and main girl and they care for eachother. And I mean, yeah, that's how it works in mass media fiction and the writers might assume that we will assume it. But in the actual text of the games I don't think romance even existing for these people is ever actually indicated. At the most Sora and Kairi sitting on the tree together away from everyone else is a bit intimate.

I tend to get frustrated with the whole "SoraxKairi isn't canon" thing as well specifically because it feels to me like people are just willfully sticking their heads into the sand about certain events and refuse to accept it until the game literally has them get married or something.

Yes, romance was hinted and spoken about in text. It isn't as direct as "hey so-and-so likes you!" and it is a bit veiled here and there, but since this is a video game we can also look at the video direction and what the camera is drawing our attention to and glean information from that as well.

Now, just to be up front--Sora and Riku have a very strong relationship that is well developed throughout the series. But like others have said, having a relationship be well developed is not the same thing as having it implied that it is romantic. Personally the way the narration is I think it is incredibly plausible (and makes perfect sense) to say that Riku loves Sora because many of the "proofs" for Sora and Kairi also apply to the way Riku feels about Sora. However, imo Sora himself has only ever had romantic implications for Kairi. While that sucks for Riku a bit, his actions in 3 seem to say he is cool with it. But this isn't about Riku, so let's just shelve that atm.

Anyway, the reasons why it seems pretty obvious to me that Sora and Kairi are canon (or very soon will be) are as follows:

1) They are the only two characters to physically share a paopu fruit. It was done while they were both alone, in an intimate setting, even with them specifically pointing out that Riku semi gave them his blessing to do it. While the symbolism of a paopu fruit has been used among the friends to symbolize friendship and connections, they are still the only characters to actually eat one together and actually do the thing. I can't see how that scene isn't implying romantic interest. Especially considering the theme song lyrics about how said protagonist is upgrading from promise to oath and this time they are actually eating a real paopu instead of just tossing a good luck charm back and forth that merely resembles one. (will discuss theme song later)

2) Sora has only ever gotten "flustered" and blushed when thinking about Kairi. His crush on her seems so obvious to his close friends that he is teased several times by several different people about liking her. (Riku, Donald, Roxas, Tidus/Wakka/Selphie all separately make little jabs or comments about Sora "liking" Kairi and in CoM there is a whole scene of the island trio saying "go get her, cowboy while we are gonna sit over here and spy on you"). Sora always gets flustered whenever this happens and tries to play it off but he does not have this same reaction to any other character. I mean, the mere fact that Roxas identified Kairi as the "girl that Sora likes" is just about as obvious as you could get.

3) The fact that over multiple games we are repetitively shown that Kairi is Sora's "light" and the reason why he is able to be so consistently strong is through her support. Yes, his friends are his power and all that so other people are obviously important to him, but it is stated many many times over that for "some" reason Kairi, specifically, keeps him stable in a way no one else does. They are vague about why, sure, but this is an undeniable fact. Sora only becomes aware of this in KH3 during the first reset when he is yelling towards the light in the distance, thinking it is Riku, only to have him realize wait--this light guiding me is actually Kairi and has been Kairi this whole time. That, and the fact that in this scene we are shown parallels to other Disney characters in love, using the power of love it seems pretty dang obvious what they were implying here. No, no character jumped out and was like "oh its because you love each other!" but that would be pretty awful storytelling and if people honestly expect or NEED the game to do that to see what is implied with this scene then...I don't know what to say about that.

4) When Sora and Kairi hug (in KH2 specifically). A lot of people like to dismiss this scene and say "ah yes, but Sora and Riku hug in 3D so a hug by itself means nothing special!" but that seems incredibly disingenuous considering both scenes from a pure video direction standpoint. The hugs in each of these cases are based on the same "purpose" aka "I am so glad to see you again and that you are safe" but the way the scenes are constructed visually are incredibly telling. When Sora and Kairi hug each other the camera angles are incredibly close, tight, and focus very much on their hands (often completely cutting their faces out of view). It lingers very long literally on a close-up shot showing that gasp Sora...hugs her back. Because while we understand the emotions of the scene to be grateful that each other is safe, the important take-away with the camera angle suggests that we are meant to think "they are so happy to see each other that they are hugging". Further emphasized by Donald and Goofy seen reacting to their hug in the background with a gasp and a knowing nod back to each other like "yeah, good for them".
Contrasting this to the scene where Sora and Riku hug in 3D, the angle stays relatively zoomed out so we can see their faces, see their reactions and emotions--there isnt a focused zoom in on Riku wrapping his arms around Sora's back. The point of this scene is to emphasize their emotions on their faces which we see basically the whole time, NOT the hug itself, aka "they are so happy to see each other that they are hugging." And, funnily enough, Donald and Goofy are here in this scene too but are reacting with joy and celebration rather than a little nod, nod, elbow nudge like they did in the other hugging scene.
Just from the video direction of these two scenes alone it is clear that they were trying to imply that Sora hugging Kairi was a very significant act, so much so that other characters in universe noticed this. If we just pare the scene down to "they hugged" then yes, it sounds far less convincing as "evidence" but the way the scene is constructed I really can't see how there isn't that implication.

5) The fact that Sora spends the last of his time alive with Kairi, alone. (Even ignoring the fact that they are essentially on a date the whole time).

6) That scene in Halloween Town in KH2 where he imagines dancing with her. Just...how can that NOT be Sora being a boy with a crush? Has he ever imagined spinning around dancing with any other character with goo-goo-ga-ga misty bubbles popping around in the background? Like...even if Sora and Kairi only interacted ONCE in the ENTIRE series and were practical strangers, if that scene was still in the game my take-away would be "aw, homeboy's got a crush on that random girl he met once, how cute."

7) Sora is willing to do a lot for his friends. Incredibly reckless behavior. But Kairi is the only one he has consistently been willing to die for multiple times, without question. (The only exception has been Namine, when he was feeling for her the same feelings he has for Kairi). Whether or not this is "romantic" is up to interpretation, I suppose, but a lot of people seem to say it is romantic when Riku does the same for Sora, or when Aqua does the same for Terra and use that as the basis for proof of those ships. I think inherently being willing to die for someone is at the very least a strong testament to how deeply they feel for that person. And at least from Sora's perspective the only person he has done that for was Kairi.

8) I would say it is pretty obvious that Kairi has a thing for Sora (considering he is her main driving motivation for pretty much everything) but one of the most telling "proofs" for me is the fact that post CoM while she was aware that Riku disappeared for some reason she...doesn't really seem all that bothered by it? She continues puttering around her daily life. It is only really until she realizes that she forgot Sora that she starts desperately trying to reach out (by writing a letter to him) and then later jumping through a portal to darkness in an attempt to find him and bring him back. She even specifically tells Sora that he was the reason she left the islands--to find him. (And after arriving in Twilight Town and presumably explaining this to Hayner, Pence and Olette--the later comments that her story is "romantic". A statement that Kairi doesn't even attempt to deny. She just smiles in response.)
Unfortunately Kairi doesn't have too many other interactions (friendly or otherwise) with too many people, but the few times she does, Sora is 90% of the reason and, thanks to the scene where she saves him in kh3, the game very clearly links the parallels between her saving him and the others saving their loved ones out of, you know, love. So it is pretty clear that she acts the way she does because she loves Sora in the same way.

9) The title screen for remind.

10) The theme song for KH3 (the theme song for KH1 is also very heavily hinted to be about Sora and Kairi as well but I'll ignore that one for now). Specifically, Chikai--the lyrics don't really relate much to any other characters but Sora and Kairi. Aaaand there is kissing implied in the song. So there's that. (The english lyrics, unfortunately, miss the mark on a lot of this symbolism so I recommend if you aren't familiar with the Japanese lyrics to check them out).

And there is waaaaay more I didn't mention. All of this adds up, honestly and that's why the denial of the relationship is incredibly confusing to me. There most definitely are things that indicate characters, in universe, are teasing our characters or pointing out the crushes that they have. The video direction and choice of angles for various shots clearly indicates that we are meant to be focusing on something that implies it is important because implications. And while we don't know what Sora told Kairi at the end of Remind, I would be pretty shocked if it doesn't end up being something like "I love you".

Romance was not a heavy theme of these games, no, so that is why I think we didn't have much more of an obvious statement between the two of them. But it's just...other than being in denial I really can't see how people just dismiss literally all of this stuff (and the stuff that I didn't even mention). It's there and it isn't me "reading into" something because I want it to be there.

Hell, the main reason why I am a huge SoraxKairi supporter myself is because I love canon relationships in things and I love to support the characters when they find somebody they like. And it was already clear to me from the first game that they liked each other, and every single game beyond that only further solidified that. I don't like trying to force a character into a relationship that the character doesn't seem to be into nor do I like shipping people just because apparently everyone needs to be in a relationship. Sora and Kairi is literally the only relationship in the entire game that ever had any slight touches of romantic subtext. Riku has some romantic subtext towards Sora, yes, but it doesn't appear that Sora reciprocates that so...that sucks for him.

I think there is a whole world of opportunity moving forward for any number of romances to pop up between other characters now that they can interact more and I am looking forward to it, but imo I think the ones denying that SoraxKairi is canon are the ones who need to be proving it, not the other way around, because it seems like they are the ones who need to explain why ALL of that stuff that happened before somehow...isn't important?

We can probably all agree that the romantic stuff isn't written particularly well, or could be a lot better, but it is still there, though. Probably the main reason why haven't gotten a "kiss" yet is because they are probably planning on saving it for some other, "better" time (like after they save Sora or something).
 
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MrFranklin95

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I tend to get frustrated with the whole "SoraxKairi isn't canon" thing as well specifically because it feels to me like people are just willfully sticking their heads into the sand about certain events and refuse to accept it until the game literally has them get married or something.

Yes, romance was hinted and spoken about in text. It isn't as direct as "hey so-and-so likes you!" and it is a bit veiled here and there, but since this is a video game we can also look at the video direction and what the camera is drawing our attention to and glean information from that as well.

Now, just to be up front--Sora and Riku have a very strong relationship that is well developed throughout the series. But like others have said, having a relationship be well developed is not the same thing as having it implied that it is romantic. Personally the way the narration is I think it is incredibly plausible (and makes perfect sense) to say that Riku loves Sora because many of the "proofs" for Sora and Kairi also apply to the way Riku feels about Sora. However, imo Sora himself has only ever had romantic implications for Kairi. While that sucks for Riku a bit, his actions in 3 seem to say he is cool with it. But this isn't about Riku, so let's just shelve that atm.

Anyway, the reasons why it seems pretty obvious to me that Sora and Kairi are canon (or very soon will be) are as follows:

1) They are the only two characters to physically share a paopu fruit. It was done while they were both alone, in an intimate setting, even with them specifically pointing out that Riku semi gave them his blessing to do it. While the symbolism of a paopu fruit has been used among the friends to symbolize friendship and connections, they are still the only characters to actually eat one together and actually do the thing. I can't see how that scene isn't implying romantic interest. Especially considering the theme song lyrics about how said protagonist is upgrading from promise to oath and this time they are actually eating a real paopu instead of just tossing a good luck charm back and forth that merely resembles one. (will discuss theme song later)

2) Sora has only ever gotten "flustered" and blushed when thinking about Kairi. His crush on her seems so obvious to his close friends that he is teased several times by several different people about liking her. (Riku, Donald, Roxas, Tidus/Wakka/Selphie all separately make little jabs or comments about Sora "liking" Kairi and in CoM there is a whole scene of the island trio saying "go get her, cowboy while we are gonna sit over here and spy on you"). Sora always gets flustered whenever this happens and tries to play it off but he does not have this same reaction to any other character. I mean, the mere fact that Roxas identified Kairi as the "girl that Sora likes" is just about as obvious as you could get.

3) The fact that over multiple games we are repetitively shown that Kairi is Sora's "light" and the reason why he is able to be so consistently strong is through her support. Yes, his friends are his power and all that so other people are obviously important to him, but it is stated many many times over that for "some" reason Kairi, specifically, keeps him stable in a way no one else does. They are vague about why, sure, but this is an undeniable fact. Sora only becomes aware of this in KH3 during the first reset when he is yelling towards the light in the distance, thinking it is Riku, only to have him realize wait--this light guiding me is actually Kairi and has been Kairi this whole time. That, and the fact that in this scene we are shown parallels to other Disney characters in love, using the power of love it seems pretty dang obvious what they were implying here. No, no character jumped out and was like "oh its because you love each other!" but that would be pretty awful storytelling and if people honestly expect or NEED the game to do that to see what is implied with this scene then...I don't know what to say about that.

4) When Sora and Kairi hug (in KH2 specifically). A lot of people like to dismiss this scene and say "ah yes, but Sora and Riku hug in 3D so a hug by itself means nothing special!" but that seems incredibly disingenuous considering both scenes from a pure video direction standpoint. The hugs in each of these cases are based on the same "purpose" aka "I am so glad to see you again and that you are safe" but the way the scenes are constructed visually are incredibly telling. When Sora and Kairi hug each other the camera angles are incredibly close, tight, and focus very much on their hands (often completely cutting their faces out of view). It lingers very long literally on a close-up shot showing that gasp Sora...hugs her back. Because while we understand the emotions of the scene to be grateful that each other is safe, the important take-away with the camera angle suggests that we are meant to think "they are so happy to see each other that they are hugging". Further emphasized by Donald and Goofy seen reacting to their hug in the background with a gasp and a knowing nod back to each other like "yeah, good for them".
Contrasting this to the scene where Sora and Riku hug in 3D, the angle stays relatively zoomed out so we can see their faces, see their reactions and emotions--there isnt a focused zoom in on Riku wrapping his arms around Sora's back. The point of this scene is to emphasize their emotions on their faces which we see basically the whole time, NOT the hug itself, aka "they are so happy to see each other that they are hugging." And, funnily enough, Donald and Goofy are here in this scene too but are reacting with joy and celebration rather than a little nod, nod, elbow nudge like they did in the other hugging scene.
Just from the video direction of these two scenes alone it is clear that they were trying to imply that Sora hugging Kairi was a very significant act, so much so that other characters in universe noticed this. If we just pare the scene down to "they hugged" then yes, it sounds far less convincing as "evidence" but the way the scene is constructed I really can't see how there isn't that implication.

5) The fact that Sora spends the last of his time alive with Kairi, alone. (Even ignoring the fact that they are essentially on a date the whole time).

6) That scene in Halloween Town in KH2 where he imagines dancing with her. Just...how can that NOT be Sora being a boy with a crush? Has he ever imagined spinning around dancing with any other character with goo-goo-ga-ga misty bubbles popping around in the background? Like...even if Sora and Kairi only interacted ONCE in the ENTIRE series and were practical strangers, if that scene was still in the game my take-away would be "aw, homeboy's got a crush on that random girl he met once, how cute."

7) Sora is willing to do a lot for his friends. Incredibly reckless behavior. But Kairi is the only one he has consistently been willing to die for multiple times, without question. (The only exception has been Namine, when he was feeling for her the same feelings he has for Kairi). Whether or not this is "romantic" is up to interpretation, I suppose, but a lot of people seem to say it is romantic when Riku does the same for Sora, or when Aqua does the same for Terra and use that as the basis for proof of those ships. I think inherently being willing to die for someone is at the very least a strong testament to how deeply they feel for that person. And at least from Sora's perspective the only person he has done that for was Kairi.

8) I would say it is pretty obvious that Kairi has a thing for Sora (considering he is her main driving motivation for pretty much everything) but one of the most telling "proofs" for me is the fact that post CoM while she was aware that Riku disappeared for some reason she...doesn't really seem all that bothered by it? She continues puttering around her daily life. It is only really until she realizes that she forgot Sora that she starts desperately trying to reach out (by writing a letter to him) and then later jumping through a portal to darkness in an attempt to find him and bring him back. She even specifically tells Sora that he was the reason she left the islands--to find him. (And after arriving in Twilight Town and presumably explaining this to Hayner, Pence and Olette--the later comments that her story is "romantic". A statement that Kairi doesn't even attempt to deny. She just smiles in response.)
Unfortunately Kairi doesn't have too many other interactions (friendly or otherwise) with too many people, but the few times she does, Sora is 90% of the reason and, thanks to the scene where she saves him in kh3, the game very clearly links the parallels between her saving him and the others saving their loved ones out of, you know, love. So it is pretty clear that she acts the way she does because she loves Sora in the same way.

9) The title screen for remind.

10) The theme song for KH3 (the theme song for KH1 is also very heavily hinted to be about Sora and Kairi as well but I'll ignore that one for now). Specifically, Chikai--the lyrics don't really relate much to any other characters but Sora and Kairi. Aaaand there is kissing implied in the song. So there's that. (The english lyrics, unfortunately, miss the mark on a lot of this symbolism so I recommend if you aren't familiar with the Japanese lyrics to check them out).

And there is waaaaay more I didn't mention. All of this adds up, honestly and that's why the denial of the relationship is incredibly confusing to me. There most definitely are things that indicate characters, in universe, are teasing our characters or pointing out the crushes that they have. The video direction and choice of angles for various shots clearly indicates that we are meant to be focusing on something that implies it is important because implications. And while we don't know what Sora told Kairi at the end of Remind, I would be pretty shocked if it doesn't end up being something like "I love you".

Romance was not a heavy theme of these games, no, so that is why I think we didn't have much more of an obvious statement between the two of them. But it's just...other than being in denial I really can't see how people just dismiss literally all of this stuff (and the stuff that I didn't even mention). It's there and it isn't me "reading into" something because I want it to be there.

Hell, the main reason why I am a huge SoraxKairi supporter myself is because I love canon relationships in things and I love to support the characters when they find somebody they like. And it was already clear to me from the first game that they liked each other, and every single game beyond that only further solidified that. I don't like trying to force a character into a relationship that the character doesn't seem to be into nor do I like shipping people just because apparently everyone needs to be in a relationship. Sora and Kairi is literally the only relationship in the entire game that ever had any slight touches of romantic subtext. Riku has some romantic subtext towards Sora, yes, but it doesn't appear that Sora reciprocates that so...that sucks for him.

I think there is a whole world of opportunity moving forward for any number of romances to pop up between other characters now that they can interact more and I am looking forward to it, but imo I think the ones denying that SoraxKairi is canon are the ones who need to be proving it, not the other way around, because it seems like they are the ones who need to explain why ALL of that stuff that happened before somehow...isn't important?

We can probably all agree that the romantic stuff isn't written particularly well, or could be a lot better, but it is still there, though. Probably the main reason why haven't gotten a "kiss" yet is because they are probably planning on saving it for some other, "better" time (like after they save Sora or something).

THIS. LITERALLY ALL OF THIS.

We can agree that romance in the series is poorly written, for reasons that become obvious the more you play the games, but to say Sora/Kairi doesn't exist in anyway is putting your head in the sand at this point.

But honestly, I want my Roxas/Namine ship back. Noruma threw that ship in the trash.
 
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MrFranklin95

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MrFranklin why do you think SoRi doesn't work on a narrative level? Im curious

Hard mode: don't reference Xion in any capacity

Ha ha, I see you. Cheeky bastard 😂 but I'll try my best not mention the best female character in literally all of fiction itself lol

And normally I'd make a whole rant like I usually do but tbh, I just finished Toradora, I'm a bit of a wreck now, I'm in no mood to talk about romance in any capacity right now, and I need to get of the habit of writing long paragraphs that keep me up and don't help my insomnia because I'm a crazy person. So I'm gonna copy/paste and try to go to bed. But basically, my issues with Sora/Riku aren't exactly with the ship itself, I honestly don't have an issue with it, but with the series as a whole as to why I don't think it works (at least as far this narrative is concerned) You can read if you want. Or don't. I don't know. Whatever. I'm tired and lazy lol




"As of now, the only "romance" thing in this series is Sokai. That's really it. And even then, it's more implied then anything. I think the problems lies in those implications; in more ways then one.

Sora and Kairi have A LOT of romantic framing in almost all of their scenes together but as far as that relationship goes, you get the feeling its not as strong as say Sora and Riku. But the reason why the latter is implied and the other isn't is the framing and that is the one thing I've seen debated for years. Of course, I've been on the opinion of only really Sora and Kairi are romance implied while everything isn't in that frame. Is it because of homophobia or the years upon years of media framing that only the guy and girl can get together because stereotypes?

Yeah, probably. Is that okay? It isn't, all relationships should be included but the fact is, it isn't for whatever reasons and Sora/Kairi is the only resemblance of romantic framing we'll probably get. Sora and Kairi is the only thing that actually romantic in any sense throughout all these games. And that's not me saying that, the narrative is telling me and everyone else that. Sora/Kairi scenes and Sora/Riku scenes on closer look are just not framed or contextualized in the same way. They just aren't. And if you want to bring obscure novels that only the harcore fans bother to read, then you're shit out of luck on that one since those novels are just barely canon and most of the fans don't read them.

But why am I bringing this up? To flame some shipping wars? Kind of, cause I'm a cheeky little sh*t but also because at the end of the day, Sora and Riku have a far stronger relationship than Sora and Kairi from the way that's its told and it doesn't line up with how it is framed narratively. And that's the main problem. You see, I can understand why Sora/Riku is a relationship some fans want or prefer. Not because they want to shove "political correctness" but because throughout the entire Xehanort arc, Sora and Riku have the better dynamic of the two and one that has the most screentime. But why is this relationship stronger then the one that is the only one in the whole series that is romantically implied? And even if either or were, what does that say about the power of friendship or relationships? The series doesn't have an answer and it doesn't seem to want one.

I'm not saying you can't have stronger relationships with your best friend them let's say... your wife/girlfriend? But I wouldn't think a series like Kingdom Hearts is even attempting that kind of human relationship complexity that comes with that. For all its faults, when it comes to the relationships between characters, KH is fairly straight forward (I mean, not really, but I'm getting there)... but really only with the friendship angle. When romance is involved, for some reason, Disney and Noruma, are holding back so strongly that it muddles with that exact power of certain kinds of relationships that can be formed beyond friendships or if there's really any power dynamic at all going on when comes to connections with people in your life that are close to you.

And what I mean by that is that, generally speaking, you should love your wife/girlfriend a tad bit more then your own friends. That's kind of how it works in the simplest of terms. Now, its not always like that and human beings are complicated but KH is not the series that is going for that. So I ask again, if Sora and Kairi are romantically framed 99% of the time, why does Sora and Riku have a stronger relationship in the eyes of most fans?

Well, two reasons

1. Noruma did not care about Kairi until like 5 minutes ago when everyone screamed at him about it and went, "Fine" and even then, he couldn't help himself from shafting her out of the narrative so that she can be rescued. SO then the fans screamed louder, and he was like, "Okay fine, one boss fight" and then he proceeds to put her in sleep mode for a year and slightly hints at maybe she'll get a game... maybe. This girl... one of the main characters wasn't playable until the DLC of the 7th or 8th game in the canonical series.

The writers and Noruma treat Kairi like an afterthought and that's why a relationship that should be stronger then Sora/Riku, or at the very least on par with them, isn't is partially because of that. And even if we're talking about the logical nature of the character development of this character becoming someone who decides to be apart of the fight come end of KH2, she should've been apart of DDD then. Instead, she was a surprise tease for a video game she was going to be killed off and having to be rescued in anyway.

So... yeah.

But the other most important reason is the series' theme conflicting or just plain contradicting with ... just ... the nature of human relationships in and of themselves. It wants to treat everyone on the same plain field, because this series is running on the theme of friendship. But there's only so many different ways that you can portray friendship until you're stuck in corner repeating yourself, which is the problem the KH has been currently in for a long time.

This is something that was always going to be a problem, which is why it baffles me that Sora and Kairi are still framed in the way they are after the series went full "my friends are my power". You see, when Kingdom Hearts was first out, I never considered friendship to be the literal main theme of the entire series. Friendship is a big part of it but honestly, and it makes a lot more sense this way, the series main theme has always been about connection between people and the power of that connection. Not just friendship. And I assumed friendship was just apart of the theme of the first game and we would generally move on to other frames of connection between characters. And that's why I also thought Sora and Kairi, though generic, was a nice set up for that down the line. But the series main theme isn't really about that anymore. It went full "my friends are my power" and that I feel was a big mistake. Yeah, its about connection but mostly between friends and not any others that really existence outside of that and whenever it is, its barely there and talked down with so much subtext and only that, that it contradicts itself with other things and makes you asks yourself why it even bothered if they won't go all the way.

Like, with Ventus and Vanitas; them being framed as brothers rather then just two halves of the same person I thought was far more interesting. It framed their dynamic in a totally new light then them just being another duality of light and darkness for the series. But with them being brothers, that duality has more familiarity and deeper meaning rather then just existential meaning. Its these types of broader relationships that build of theme of light and darkness and the connection that forms and makes them up that build more on it then just the friendships angle. It's the type of thing this series desperately needs to improve its narrative.

Or how about when Terra refers to Eraqus as his father, something not only should be called into question of how Terra and Aqua even became Keyblade wielders in the first place, is never touched upon at all? Why are Terra and Aqua orphans? Where did they come from? Do they not question their lost of connection, something that any genuine orphan child would want to know about because that's human nature?

Sora, Riku, and Kairi never having any sort of relationship with their parents is something that bothers me greatly and I really seem to be the only fan who cares since everyone just learned to accept and memed it to death. But it is a problem. Because series can't just be about the power of friendship. Especially for a franchise like this, its unrealistic to due so.

As much people want to deny it, KH is not just for children. It's mainly for people who grew up with it and the Disney/Final Fantasy characters prior. KH3 was hyped up mostly by people are were in their 20s/30s. And at that point in a person's life, its has became more then friendships. And Kingdom Hearts, for a ridiculous as this series is, needs to be a series that reflects that. Especially if you are going to bother to age these characters or introduce characters that are in their 20s anyway.

And they especially can't just focus on friendship mainly because of Sora/Kairi; especially if they plan to go futher with it if the DLC is anything to go by because having it still be here is thematically confusing. It blew my mind when Sora went through all this trouble for Kairi and by the time they ended up in The Final World at the end of Re: Mind and Sora just casually refers to her as his friend, I nearly laughed. Because what's the difference at this point? Why should I put any stock in this relationship when it might as well be the same as Sora's relationship to everyone else? What makes Kairi more important or have a deeper connection then Riku? Or it is the same and if so, why are they framed so differently but one has way more screentime, so from the viewers POV, it doesn't line up? Because the series refuses to commit to what its main theme truly about and its connections between people and that doesn't just involve friendships so it can elaborate of the different connections characters have to each other. Jusy having the theme of friendship limits this story narratively is so many ways.

The biggest reason why Sora and Riku have far more screentime is because they are biggest representative of that theme of friendship. They are truly best friends for life and it's why people love it. But there are some relationships deeper then friendship, that's just how it works. I say best friends but Sora and Riku act way more like brothers then anything else and you can love your best friend that way. The problem is that the series doesn't want to commit to any deeper connection then that, so they are just framed as best friends but they have such a love for each other that's far more told then Sora and Kairi, that if they aren't brothers in that sense then maybe there's something else going on if it's not that? Because it has to be right? You can't have you're cake and eat it too. If they want to frame a gay relationship with Sora/Riku, go all the way but the series doesn't want to do because that's not what they are trying to say with that friendship but how else am I suppose to see if the other "love interest" barely gets screentime. Because that's not what the narrative is telling me, its telling me the romance is with Sora/Kairi but then why have this romance at all if it's not going any deeper then the friendship of two dudes who have far more screentime together?

But again, the series will never go any deeper then that because apparently friendship is the only thing that matters. And that greatly limits the options because you can only go so far with the theme of friendship. And trying to introduce others connections does nothing but contradict itself and and confuses people and, SPOILER ALERT, that's the reason the Sora/Kairi and Sora/Riku debate will continue without a conclusion on either side until the series is eventually rebooted. Because the series doesnt want an answer or too lazy to go beyond it. It wants to have its cake and eat it too. It wants to stay in this bubble of friendship when eventually, the bubble has to burst if the series wants to keep its fanbase interested in these characters' arcs and how they are framed around this theme or connection. Since most of the characters arcs are concluded and they somehow want to continue these chatacters' story, they are going to have to do that anyway otherwise why should I care about these characters having any arcs or connection with other characters if you are never going to explore them on any deeper then "the power of friendship"

So the series has to either go all on or not at all, otherwise this conversation of if whether or not romance is in the series will forever be moot point. Until the series decides to go deeper and introduced other types of relationships and connections between people being just as valid, KH will be stuck in this friendship limbo; which means Sora/Kairi won't go futher then what it is right now, Sora/Riku will be something forever debated, and no other theme of connection in this series will ever be explored in any meaningful way and when it is, it comes at the last minute."
 
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Chie

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I mean, some of those examples (characters actually saying things like "the girl Sora likes") are all I wanted to hear, since I guess I don't remember CoM/2's dialogue so well.

Things like them standing together on a title screen are pretty irrelevant in comparison though.
 
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