• Hello everybody! We have tons of new awards for the new year that can be requested through our Awards System thanks to Antifa Lockhart! Some are limited-time awards so go claim them before they are gone forever...

    CLICK HERE FOR AWARDS

Anyone worried that there won't be any Disney Boss battles?



REGISTER TO REMOVE ADS
Status
Not open for further replies.

Grono

KH ☼ D&D ☼ Music ☼ Wack.
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
2,184
Awards
27
Location
Somewhere, surely procrastinating
They seem to be doing a lot of their own stories for the Disney worlds in this game. A lot of them take place after or in between films and it's getting me worried about the boss fights.

I don't want them to repeat what they did with The Hunchback of Notre Dame. I want to fight villains and I'm a little nervous about us not getting to fight Disney villains (Randall, Zurg, Mother Gothel, etc).

Anyone else bothered by this? Or does it not really matter to some of you?

1. Randall - this could be interesting, like a larger version of that lizard Barbossa had.
2. Zurg - all the yes.
3. Mother Gothel - are you kidding me?! This would be the world's lamest boss fight. She literally crumbled to dust when she got tripped by a god damn chameleon in that movie. Literally any other boss fight would be appealing. It would be like slapping the evil stepmother with a keyblade - it just doesn't fit.

I would argue, however, that Baymax is almost certainly the main boss fight of San Fransokyo, if you've forgotten already.

And, to be honest, I'm not worried if there's not many Disney bosses. The Disney bosses have always proven to be underwhelming, so unless we have something absolutely epic like another Ursula boss fight round or something I can't see too many opportunities where I'd enjoy to fight any Disney bosses. In that sense, I'd prefer to keep it local, since the KH original bosses are usually better thought out (and not just fighting Genie Jafar one million times over again).
 

Swing

Active member
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Messages
209
Awards
2
1. Randall - this could be interesting, like a larger version of that lizard Barbossa had.
2. Zurg - all the yes.
3. Mother Gothel - are you kidding me?! This would be the world's lamest boss fight. She literally crumbled to dust when she got tripped by a god damn chameleon in that movie. Literally any other boss fight would be appealing. It would be like slapping the evil stepmother with a keyblade - it just doesn't fit.

I would argue, however, that Baymax is almost certainly the main boss fight of San Fransokyo, if you've forgotten already.

And, to be honest, I'm not worried if there's not many Disney bosses. The Disney bosses have always proven to be underwhelming, so unless we have something absolutely epic like another Ursula boss fight round or something I can't see too many opportunities where I'd enjoy to fight any Disney bosses. In that sense, I'd prefer to keep it local, since the KH original bosses are usually better thought out (and not just fighting Genie Jafar one million times over again).

I really wonder why the make the Disney villains so weak compare to the SE and original characters. Maybe it is a Japanese thing, but it is not like that Disney villains can not be powerful. Hades is for example a god and Chernobog is pretty much the devil himself.
 

Hakan Xatos

Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
753
Awards
13
I really wonder why the make the Disney villains so weak compare to the SE and original characters. Maybe it is a Japanese thing, but it is not like that Disney villains can not be powerful. Hades is for example a god and Chernobog is pretty much the devil himself.
I think it's mostly because Disney bosses use stair stepping difficulty for character progression. Where SE and original bosses are generally optional or end game.
 

DarkosOverlord

Bronze Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2016
Messages
2,809
Awards
4
Age
28
Location
Rome, Italy
Well Hades IS pretty powerful even in KH.
He was the strongest of Maleficent's group, even after she got the dragon power-up (he's also one of the few to have an hidden HP bar like Sephiroth, Xemnas and the Rock Titan), and he seems to be one of the few-- if not the only one that doesn't get corrupted and used by the Darkness.
Also he seems to be pretty much untouchable in his own realm unless you use godlike powers that only make him vulnerable, and that's some D&D deity boss fight right there.

While Disney villains are usually fodder and underwhelming I've always felt the franchise treated Hades with respect. I'm also really curious what his involvement with the Box will be.
 

Hakan Xatos

Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
753
Awards
13
I'll always agree with you that. Hades was no question the strongest Disney boss fight in KH1, especially solo or timed. In KH2 the invulnerability thing was a really good plot device to make up for his less difficult fight. You can't beat him without Hercules power. So both examples have been appropriate. BBS might be questionable.. Hades probably didn't need to tag team with the mini Ice Titan and could've used more HP, but that's early Hades so it probably slide. Looking forward to Sora vs Hades III.
 

Dreaded_Desire62

bronze member
Joined
Nov 2, 2011
Messages
5,448
Awards
2
Age
30
Location
Albuquerque, NM
Website
gmail.com
I think it's also how Nomura and staff approach the Disney villains. I mean, sure the bosses had good fights in their respective Disney films like Jafar turning into a snake and then a genie in the film. However, in the KH games, Jafar is usually throwing large flaming magma rocks at you and you have to whack Iago who is carrying around his lamp to actually do damage. In KH2, you had to use reaction commands to twirl him around and stun him while making sure you get plenty of hits in before he wakes up and starts throwing half the town at you.

It gets really repetitive and had the movie actually gone with Sora battling his different forms, the evil sorcerer, the giant snake, and then the evil genie; it may have proved to be something. Of course, that would also mean leaving Donald Duck and Goofy out of the fight since they could potentially heal or provide a secondary hand in the fight.
 

Luminary

Bronze Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2018
Messages
2,856
Awards
4
It’s a shame they used the light absorbing lizard for Barbossa. That would have made an excellent concept for Mother Gothel. I could picture the fight inside the tower looking like “Mother Knows Best” where she jumps out of the shadows and quickly attacks you before retreating. The Heartless lizard you have to KO to get the lights up would have been a great nod to Pascal.
 

Sora2016

Silver Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
4,550
Awards
2
Location
United States
I think it's mostly because Disney bosses use stair stepping difficulty for character progression. Where SE and original bosses are generally optional or end game.

If we are talking in general, then yea this is the reason. Like its an unfortunate inevitability of a story structured game. Sometimes bosses powers don't really make sense lol.

If we are talking lore wise, then yea, SE clearly just loves their own characters more lol. Some bald dude with magic shouldn't be stronger than the God of Death lol. Also why Sephiroth is always so strong that he just casually shrugs off Sora even after we beat him..."cuz its Sephiroth" or something.
 

Smithee

Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2012
Messages
610
Awards
4
I'm specifically hoping for the Lava Titan and/or the Wind Titan.
 

Grono

KH ☼ D&D ☼ Music ☼ Wack.
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
2,184
Awards
27
Location
Somewhere, surely procrastinating
It’s a shame they used the light absorbing lizard for Barbossa. That would have made an excellent concept for Mother Gothel. I could picture the fight inside the tower looking like “Mother Knows Best” where she jumps out of the shadows and quickly attacks you before retreating. The Heartless lizard you have to KO to get the lights up would have been a great nod to Pascal.

This... you should write for Square Enix. This is a great idea. That's the only way I could see her boss fight seem intimidating without her just summoning a heartless to fight for her.

I'm specifically hoping for the Lava Titan and/or the Wind Titan.

This would be cool too! Square, TAKE NOTES
 

Elysium

Be Wiser Than the Serpent
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
3,687
Awards
37
Sephiroth0812 said:
If in exchange for the world itself to be better integrated with the overarching plot and not just a lame movie rehash which is boring to a T I have to dispense with the corresponding world villain that's a price I'm willing to pay.
Let's be honest, these two things have nothing to do with one another. They can just as easily have a story-related, interesting, and original plot for a Disney world that both involves the film villain (if there is one) and has a boss fight involving that villain. Anyone with creativity can come up with a solution for what on their face would seem to be "boring" boss fights like Frollo, but creativity is not SE's strong suit these days and I'm not giving them an excuse for their lack of it.
 

DarkosOverlord

Bronze Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2016
Messages
2,809
Awards
4
Age
28
Location
Rome, Italy
If we are talking lore wise, then yea, SE clearly just loves their own characters more lol. Some bald dude with magic shouldn't be stronger than the God of Death lol.

I dunno. That bald dude with magic split a planet in two with motion fingers and was able to contact/manipulate/win magic contests while being on a different world from where it was happening. Also destroyed another planet with one big ball of Darkness.
Hades is struggling to control his own planet.

Also why Sephiroth is always so strong that he just casually shrugs off Sora even after we beat him..."cuz its Sephiroth" or something.

Even base form Sephiroth was the world's strongest soldier + mage who eliminated dragons in one swoop. Then, he was able to persist after death through sheer force of will and his spirit went through the planet's own life energy and aquired even greater powers.

I think the wins we get on him with Sora are "non-wins" like with Xemnas in KH1 or Terra's LW.
 

Sora2016

Silver Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
4,550
Awards
2
Location
United States
I dunno. That bald dude with magic split a planet in two with motion fingers and was able to contact/manipulate/win magic contests while being on a different world from where it was happening. Also destroyed another planet with one big ball of Darkness.
Hades is struggling to control his own planet.



Even base form Sephiroth was the world's strongest soldier + mage who eliminated dragons in one swoop. Then, he was able to persist after death through sheer force of will and his spirit went through the planet's own life energy and aquired even greater powers.

I think the wins we get on him with Sora are "non-wins" like with Xemnas in KH1 or Terra's LW.

Well yea...I'm saying the God of Death should be able to do more than that lol. I mean you would think. I guess he has to fail, but I mean, so does Xehanort now finally so *shrug*

And yeah, I dunno, I'm not saying Sephiroth isn't final boss material lol, but I dunno why they just have to have it end with him acting like Sora barely made him break a sweat. Like idk, it just feels like fan service to people who love FF7 cuz they can't imagine anyone being stronger than Sephiroth or something. But yea it is sort of similar to what they did with some other superbosses in hindsight lol. I guess I just don't like Sephiroth's attitude all that much tbh, so it rubbed me the wrong way.
 

Elysium

Be Wiser Than the Serpent
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
3,687
Awards
37
I agree with you that SE makes their own characters (rather the originals or FF) more powerful than Disney because of a bias. I actually thought it wasn't so bad in KH1 (although Ansem SOD does use Maleficent the whole time), but KH2 diminishes nearly all the Disney characters outside of Mickey.
 

Hirokey123

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 16, 2015
Messages
1,060
Awards
5
Gotta say I find it interesting that DDD is always the one brought up. It's got very few words to begin with, only 8 in total (and that's being generous by counting Destiny Islands). Despite that We fought Ursula, Captain Pete, The Beagle Boys (three times no less), Rinzler, Chernabog, and Julius 6 disney bosses in total and 9 fights (8 if you don't count one of the beagle boy fights) not to mention CLU had a Disney minion grunt army in the form of the Black guard that we fought throughout the entire world. Which is rare and has only happened in KH2 with the Undead Pirates and BBS with Maleficent's goons.

The only places we fought Dream Eaters bosses was when it was logical. Traverse Town because it's an Original World, LCDC because Frollo has literally nothing to him. The most powerful thing about Frollo was his nightmarish dream, Wargoyle embodied Frollo completely. As fighter Frollo had nothing, he care barely swing a sword his whole thing was sending armies and abusing his status so fighting a demonic yet holy manifestation of Frollo's nightmarish dream was honestly the best you could get. If not DE it would have been heartless we only fight Disney villains who are fighters. Like that's the big difference between say Clayton and Frollo. Clayton is peak physical condition man and a seasoned hunter whose whole thing is shooting things till they are dead, he's meant to be a foil to Tarzan who was in equal peak condition and a fighter, it's easy to make a boss fight that remains true to that kind of character. Even then IMO Clayton is completely underwhelming and unsatisfying.

PP had the case of not really have a villain Pinocchio had lots of little villains and Monstro was the closest to being the big movie villain, but DDD opted to make Monstro one of the damsels of the world and then also a pseudo partner. Which I think was pretty cool since we've seen Monstro as a world and we've already fought monstro as a boss in BBS so a new take is all good. CLU could have been a fighter but it's hard to imagine what he could do that wouldn't have just been a copy n' paste of Rinzler. In the movie CLU doesn't really fight he sends others to fight for him so it's not really a surprise DDD remained true to that. Like that's the thing at worst we were missing two potential Disney bosses, Frollo and CLU.

So I'm not really worried about a lack of Disney villains. Mother Gothel will probably be in the game either supported by a heartless or just not actually fought ala say Lady Tremaine and Frollo, since Rapunzel clearly still was taken to the tower and has her long magic hair. There appears to be signs that MI is happening after the movie so expect an Unversed or Vanitas as the fight there since he appears to be the main baddie. We already know Sora will be fighting the discarded corrupted shell of Baymax in BH6. Toy story is a completely original story so it could be anything but I'm betting on a heartless fight myself. Olympus has Rock Titan and I imagine that probably means we have one last Hades fight just guessing. Twilight Town will have an original boss of some kind probably a Nobody since Xemnas appeared there and it IS Twilight Town.
 
Last edited:

Sora2016

Silver Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
4,550
Awards
2
Location
United States
Gotta say I find it interesting that DDD is always the one brought up. It's got very few words to begin with, only 8 in total (and that's being generous by counting Destiny Islands). Despite that We fought Ursula, Captain Pete, The Beagle Boys (three times no less), Rinzler, Chernabog, and Julius 6 disney bosses in total and 9 fights (8 if you don't count one of the beagle boy fights) not to mention CLU had a Disney minion grunt army in the form of the Black guard that we fought throughout the entire world. Which is rare and has only happened in KH2 with the Undead Pirates and BBS with Maleficent's goons.

The only places we fought Dream Eaters bosses was when it was logical. Traverse Town because it's an Original World, LCDC because Frollo has literally nothing to him. The most powerful thing about Frollo was his nightmarish dream, Wargoyle embodied Frollo completely. As fighter Frollo had nothing, he care barely swing a sword his whole thing was sending armies and abusing his status so fighting a demonic yet holy manifestation of Frollo's nightmarish dream was honestly the best you could get. If not DE it would have been heartless we only fight Disney villains who are fighters. Like that's the big difference between say Clayton and Frollo. Clayton is peak physical condition man and a seasoned hunter whose whole thing is shooting things till they are dead, he's meant to be a foil to Tarzan who was in equal peak condition and a fighter, it's easy to make a boss fight that remains true to that kind of character. Even then IMO Clayton is completely underwhelming and unsatisfying.

PP had the case of not really have a villain Pinocchio had lots of little villains and Monstro was the closest to being the big movie villain, but DDD opted to make Monstro one of the damsels of the world and then also a pseudo partner. Which I think was pretty cool since we've seen Monstro as a world and we've already fought monstro as a boss in BBS so a new take is all good. CLU could have been a fighter but it's hard to imagine what he could do that wouldn't have just been a copy n' paste of Rinzler. In the movie CLU doesn't really fight he sends others to fight for him so it's not really a surprise DDD remained true to that. Like that's the thing at worst we were missing two potential Disney bosses, Frollo and CLU.

So I'm not really worried about a lack of Disney villains. Mother Gothel will probably be in the game either supported by a heartless or just not actually fought ala say Lady Tremaine and Frollo, since Rapunzel clearly still was taken to the tower and has her long magic hair. There appears to be signs that MI is happening after the movie so expect an Unversed or Vanitas as the fight there since he appears to be the main baddie. We already know Sora will be fighting the discarded corrupted shell of Baymax in BH6. Toy story is a completely original story so it could be anything but I'm betting on a heartless fight myself. Olympus has Rock Titan and I imagine that probably means we have one last Hades fight just guessing. Twilight Town will have an original boss of some kind probably a Nobody since Xemnas appeared there and it IS Twilight Town.

I realize it only had 5 Disney worlds, I'm not comparing it to the number of Disney bosses like by actual number but by inclusion? I guess its been said already, but yeah the glaring omission of Frollo and I mean, they didn't HAVE to make Monstro a "damsel" lol. That was their own choice...You are right though that CLU would have been similar to Rinzler if it was just him. I don't mind the Mantis Dream Eater, them teaming up could have made a fun fight to please us all imo.

Oh and Chernabog wasn't a boss, it was a glorified mini-game, lets be real lol. Dodging ghosts to hit him 3 times isn't really respectful to Disney's version of Satan haha. But I digress, like I said I sort of said all this already, its just when you point out how Frollo can't fight but yea they made up stuff for Clayton and Scar? Lets not forget we fight the cat from Cinderella lol. Its stuff like that that felt missing from DDD, I guess?

So when you are saying about "fights" in KH3 you mean final fights? Cuz I think Olympus alone is gonna have 3 or more bosses it seems. And we already saw one giant Heartless boss for Toy Story, I doubt all the bosses there are Heartless? But in general, I expect multiple bosses per world, all will probably have some kind of original KH enemy, but I think there is room for most to have some kind of Disney boss. Even if its just a mini one.
 

DarkosOverlord

Bronze Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2016
Messages
2,809
Awards
4
Age
28
Location
Rome, Italy
Well yea...I'm saying the God of Death should be able to do more than that lol. I mean you would think. I guess he has to fail, but I mean, so does Xehanort now finally so *shrug*

Yeah, on that note then you're right and it's definitely Disney canons holding him back.

And yeah, I dunno, I'm not saying Sephiroth isn't final boss material lol, but I dunno why they just have to have it end with him acting like Sora barely made him break a sweat. Like idk, it just feels like fan service to people who love FF7 cuz they can't imagine anyone being stronger than Sephiroth or something. But yea it is sort of similar to what they did with some other superbosses in hindsight lol. I guess I just don't like Sephiroth's attitude all that much tbh, so it rubbed me the wrong way.

Oh, from that point yes, it's absolutely fanservice. It's no secret Nomura's really fond of that game: when they told him Vincent wasn't cameo-worthy, he literally stuck Cloud's face on Vincent and wrote his character as Vincent.

Then again, according to one of the latest interviews he doesn't seem intent of bringing Sephiroth's back in KH III.
 
Joined
Dec 24, 2017
Messages
556
Awards
2
Location
Brazil
Gotta say I find it interesting that DDD is always the one brought up. It's got very few words to begin with, only 8 in total (and that's being generous by counting Destiny Islands). Despite that We fought Ursula, Captain Pete, The Beagle Boys (three times no less), Rinzler, Chernabog, and Julius 6 disney bosses in total and 9 fights (8 if you don't count one of the beagle boy fights) not to mention CLU had a Disney minion grunt army in the form of the Black guard that we fought throughout the entire world. Which is rare and has only happened in KH2 with the Undead Pirates and BBS with Maleficent's goons.

The only places we fought Dream Eaters bosses was when it was logical. Traverse Town because it's an Original World, LCDC because Frollo has literally nothing to him. The most powerful thing about Frollo was his nightmarish dream, Wargoyle embodied Frollo completely. As fighter Frollo had nothing, he care barely swing a sword his whole thing was sending armies and abusing his status so fighting a demonic yet holy manifestation of Frollo's nightmarish dream was honestly the best you could get. If not DE it would have been heartless we only fight Disney villains who are fighters. Like that's the big difference between say Clayton and Frollo. Clayton is peak physical condition man and a seasoned hunter whose whole thing is shooting things till they are dead, he's meant to be a foil to Tarzan who was in equal peak condition and a fighter, it's easy to make a boss fight that remains true to that kind of character. Even then IMO Clayton is completely underwhelming and unsatisfying.

PP had the case of not really have a villain Pinocchio had lots of little villains and Monstro was the closest to being the big movie villain, but DDD opted to make Monstro one of the damsels of the world and then also a pseudo partner. Which I think was pretty cool since we've seen Monstro as a world and we've already fought monstro as a boss in BBS so a new take is all good. CLU could have been a fighter but it's hard to imagine what he could do that wouldn't have just been a copy n' paste of Rinzler. In the movie CLU doesn't really fight he sends others to fight for him so it's not really a surprise DDD remained true to that. Like that's the thing at worst we were missing two potential Disney bosses, Frollo and CLU.

So I'm not really worried about a lack of Disney villains. Mother Gothel will probably be in the game either supported by a heartless or just not actually fought ala say Lady Tremaine and Frollo, since Rapunzel clearly still was taken to the tower and has her long magic hair. There appears to be signs that MI is happening after the movie so expect an Unversed or Vanitas as the fight there since he appears to be the main baddie. We already know Sora will be fighting the discarded corrupted shell of Baymax in BH6. Toy story is a completely original story so it could be anything but I'm betting on a heartless fight myself. Olympus has Rock Titan and I imagine that probably means we have one last Hades fight just guessing. Twilight Town will have an original boss of some kind probably a Nobody since Xemnas appeared there and it IS Twilight Town.

Also the titans can be kind of considered "Disney Bosses" tbh lol
 

Sephiroth0812

Guardian of Light
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
10,532
Awards
37
Location
Germany
Let's be honest, these two things have nothing to do with one another. They can just as easily have a story-related, interesting, and original plot for a Disney world that both involves the film villain (if there is one) and has a boss fight involving that villain. Anyone with creativity can come up with a solution for what on their face would seem to be "boring" boss fights like Frollo, but creativity is not SE's strong suit these days and I'm not giving them an excuse for their lack of it.

They do have if the villain in question is offed in the original movie and the world plot is set after it, except of course one includes more revival shenanigans like Ursula in KH 2.
But that's why I put an "if" before the whole paragraph.
I'm well aware that is certainly possible to craft an interesting original plot that involves everything you point out, but I am not confident enough in SE's writing capabilities to pull it actually off in a satisfying manner.
Being ok with having a trade-off in this regard isn't "excusing" Square for anything but just being personally content to live with this reality.

And yeah, I dunno, I'm not saying Sephiroth isn't final boss material lol, but I dunno why they just have to have it end with him acting like Sora barely made him break a sweat. Like idk, it just feels like fan service to people who love FF7 cuz they can't imagine anyone being stronger than Sephiroth or something. But yea it is sort of similar to what they did with some other superbosses in hindsight lol. I guess I just don't like Sephiroth's attitude all that much tbh, so it rubbed me the wrong way.

It may have to do not only with Nomura himself or FF VII fans as the other members of the team that worked on FF VII and the entire compilation around it also pointed out in supplementary material that not only is Sephiroth truly insanely strong in physical strength, magic and will, in terms of the FF VII-universe itself there's also no one that's stronger than him.
The main reason Sephiroth "loses", especially to Cloud, is his own arrogance and tendency to wanting to "play" with his prey, considering it beneath him to use his full power against what he deems inferior foes.
Since his will is so strong though, Sephiroth's spirit can even endure past death and thus a single defeat doesn't really faze him.

As far as I know, it has been explicitly stated that Sephiroth so far never ever in any capacity he appeared, be it the original FF VII-universe, KH or Dissidia, showed the actual full extent of his powers. He's always just goofing/aloofing around.

As for specifically KH, I wonder what you expected instead then? Especially in KH 2 Sora is already portrayed as ridiculously overpowered in cutscenes as well as with some gameplay features, so Sephiroth being actually in serious pain or on his knees would only put more fuel towards painting Sora as a sort of all-powerful Gary Stu, is that not just protagonist-biased fanservice as well just directed at a different type of character?
If anything Sephiroth shrugging him off and not even being exhausted at all serves as a good counterpoint to that over-the-top shounen portrayal of Sora.
Not to mention he does compliment Sora on being very skilled, and someone as aloof and detached as Sephiroth delivering praise also doesn't happen very often.
 

Foxycian

Active member
Joined
Aug 1, 2016
Messages
886
Awards
3
i gotta say we will most likely fight these disney bosses
Hercules (hades)
Tangled (don't know about mother gothel but i can see us fighting the twin bandits)
Wreck it Ralph (turbo i guess)
Frozen (hans would be lamest boss fight so i think the ice titan elsa made or maybe maleificent since she travels worlds specially princess's world's lol)
Big Hero 6 (callaghan and probably berserk baymax)
Toy Story (i can't see disney boss here unless they add zurg since he appeared in the first toy story movie as buzz's enemy)
Monsters Inc (Randall or maybe tho i don't think so but maybe waternoose)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top