Anyone Else Think Disney Ruined This Game?



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OneDandelion

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I love the story of the game. Thats not the issue for me here, my issue is with the actual gameplay.

I know Nomura knows how to make a Kingdom Hearts game. I've played all of them - and ALL of them are more challenging than KHIII. ALL of them require more thought and strategy. For a game best described by Kairi as "their toughest battle yet" this is by far the easiest in the series.

And the major reason for it? Attractions/Links/Shotlocks and Keyblade Limit Breaks or whatever they're called all break enemy combos, do major damage, and grant either invulnerability or significant damage mitigation. On top of these you can use magic and dodge roll on nearly every enemy in the game and be perfectly safe. I'm asking myself is this even an RPG? Does leveling even matter in this game? We are on a roller coaster where we are forced to get experience and I wonder if my experience would change if the leveling system and the ability to change equipment were removed completely. I don't think it would.

Learning how to abuse this system takes all of 15 minutes of experience. For anyone familiar with the series it probably took you even less time. I was abusing this system halfway through Olympus. Between this and the complete lack of challenging enemies and end game boss content this is my biggest complaint about the game. The question is why?

The endgame is filled with tedious grinding. Between the mickey emblems, the chests, and the minigames grinding out ultima weapon is maybe more time consuming in this than in any other game so far with none of the satisfaction of searching for unique enemies and looking for unique crafting material. You are either searching every spot in every level looking for an emblem or sledding down the same mountain minigame looking for treasure for the 30th time. Did Nomura really exchange good boss fights for hide and seek minigames that would honestly consume 20+ hours of time if anyone gave this an honest attempt?

As beautiful as the worlds are, they are hallways the same as FF13 was. Well they are exactly what I expected to be honest, actually they exceeded my expectations, and I'm not complaining about that. Actually I think the worlds are so beautifully constructed and the disney characters meld so well with sora and the story it makes me think that Disney used up the majority of KH3 funding to represent their brands as best as possible and gave Nomura the scraps to fund the ending of his story.

I mean think about it, who needs who more? KH is such a beautiful story that Nomura undoubtedly puts his soul into it and wants to get it done. Disney is simply in this for the profit and knows that Nomura needs them to do it, so they're extorting him as much as they can

Maybe thats why 3/4 of the parts of the story that actually matter are at the very end completely segregated from the disney content.
Maybe thats why postgame is 90% irrelevent minigames and hide and seek
Maybe thats why the singalong from frozen was so forcibly injected into Arendelle

Considering some of the pacing of the dialogue and number of glitches/ clipping issues ive had in the game I wouldn't be surprised if Disney also forced Nomura to speed up game development.

The story of the game is brilliant and I'm going to make another post on why this game is brilliant and a philosophical masterpiece but I need to take a moment to rant about this because it upsets me as a person who loves video games and more specifically kingdom hearts games that this is 100% the worst game in the series. As a movie I would say its arguably the best, as a game I would actually throw it in the trash.

I can honestly say this is the only Kingdom Hearts game I wish was a full on movie instead of a game.
 
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This is a perfectly valid complaint. The number of cutscenes in this game will make replaying the game a chore, not to even mention speed-running.
 

Face My Fears

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At first I thought you meant "Disney worlds" and I was ready to argue back, but now that I see you mean the Walt Disney Company, then I agree with you to an extent.

From my understanding (someone correct me if I'm wrong), the old days of KH had Disney not really involved with choices (as they didn't think KH was anything profitable). But KH3 seemed to have Disney's hands all up in it. I read somewhere that Pixar told them that there couldn't be boss fights with certain characters (like Randall). Also, the aforementioned forcing in of "Let It Go" and "Do You Wanna Build A Snowman". I liked that Disney assisted in the graphics and world design, helping them stay true to the film worlds, but I don't like that they also seemingly got way more restrictive and controlling.

Now your complaints about the minigames and side stuff is valid, but I'm not sure you can blame that on Disney. Unless you're saying that Disney didn't want characters like Sephiroth or "darker"/"dangerous" secret bosses? I do think they could have forced Nomura to speed up development. I read on these forums that Nomura had to cut a lot out (I'm not sure why, I mean we've been waiting for years for the game what's a few more months).
 

OneDandelion

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KHIII is very dark in the end, but its obscure and somewhat left up to interpretation. And its true there are no overly dark scenes beyond what is necessary. Compared to KH1 and the dark aspects of the rest of the series, KH3 felt lighthearted despite the grimness of their situation.

To be honest I think to strike a deal between disney and Nomura it was likely both came to the table with a list of demands. There are certain scenes that Nomura could not compromise on for his story to be fulfilled adequately, but I'm sure that disney forced him to compromise on everything that they could.

As far as minigames and stuff go I think that was a result of an insufficient development time and Nomura being forced to include content thats somewhat time consuming for the game to feel rewarding. I don't know who to pin the blame on but I truly believe if it was Nomuras choice he wouldn't have had the gameplay end up like this
 

Face My Fears

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ultima-demi

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I'm wondering if it's mainly because KH3 is using more modern/CG properties this time and that comes with the creators of those ip still being in the company and that comes with certain restrictions and guidelines they have to follow even more now.

I remember him saying something along the lines that with older properties, there wasn't much of an issue with restriction and things like that because the creators weren't there anymore so they had a lot more freedom with those properties.
 

ghostwarmen

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I read somewhere that Pixar told them that there couldn't be boss fights with certain characters (like Randall).
If this is true, not only will I be livid beyond belief, I will have no faith in future KH games in the ways of Disney bosses. There’s no logic, these are villains!! What, does it offend them if their villain gets beat up with a key? Well they need to get over it, the joy for me from these games is getting to fight my childhood villains. That’s what makes these games stand out from others in my eyes and why I enjoy replaying the older titles. If the future of the series relegates these villains to cutscene only, then sign me out of the series.

I know now it’s a little tiny thing to be upset about, but it does, because it’s what I look most forward to in these games. At this point, I’d prefer if Disney & Pixar just stay out of it and let just help Square with models and such, but leave the characters to Square to do as they wish.
 

Alpha Baymax

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I'm wondering if it's mainly because KH3 is using more modern/CG properties this time and that comes with the creators of those ip still being in the company and that comes with certain restrictions and guidelines they have to follow even more now.

I remember him saying something along the lines that with older properties, there wasn't much of an issue with restriction and things like that because the creators weren't there anymore so they had a lot more freedom with those properties.
I think it's more to do with Kingdom Hearts III in general. Didn't a Square Enix representative say that this game was also designed for newcomers in mind?

Though, to be fair, the harder difficuilty should have been harder. For instance, disabling non-mandatory attraction flow. This game is too easy save for the Xehanort battles, but for a title that's been long anticipated, I'm willing to let this slide. Hopefully a Final Mix variant makes the game harder.
 

OneDandelion

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I think it's more to do with Kingdom Hearts III in general. Didn't a Square Enix representative say that this game was also designed for newcomers in mind?
When I was 12 years old I inadvertently set KH1 to hard mode and died a thousand times getting through the game and it was great. I know I'm the outlier but I wish developers had more faith in players to get through a good game. If they have confidence that its a quality product they shouldn't be so afraid of players not being able to get through it...
 

Face My Fears

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I'm wondering if it's mainly because KH3 is using more modern/CG properties this time and that comes with the creators of those ip still being in the company and that comes with certain restrictions and guidelines they have to follow even more now.

I remember him saying something along the lines that with older properties, there wasn't much of an issue with restriction and things like that because the creators weren't there anymore so they had a lot more freedom with those properties.
This is why we need to go back to the Disney Renaissance worlds! I rather they animate stuff from scratch than having restrictions put upon them on what characters can/cannot do. Lowkey, this is why I wanted A Bug's Life in the game...
 

furusatoe

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Just going to respond to two things.

1) I keep seeing people complain about all of the story being shoved into the endgame, and I don't think it's a valid criticism. We are literally fed at least ten minutes of "original" story after the completion of every Disney world. And not just filler story - it's important buildup. Furthermore, the Disney worlds themselves speak to and foreshadow the major themes of the original story in a way that has heretofore never been done in a KH game. For the first time since KH1, the Disney worlds actually feel purposeful to the overarching storytelling. And it's been so refreshing.

2) the whole "Disney ruined [x] property!" complaint reminds me too much of all of the Last Jedi bellyaching from last year, and I have a hard time sympathizing with it. Disney is not out to ruin your childhood. Disney is not some soulless corporate monster out to kill true "art" in the name of profit. The more involved they are, the more incentive they have to make the product as good as it can possibly be. If anything, given Square's spotty track record over the past decade, their increased involvement is very welcome. They certainly helped make the Disney worlds better than they've ever been before. And, as I mentioned above, I really don't buy the argument that they forced Nomura to gut the original story, given how much the original story is present both during and between every Disney world.

I haven't quite finished the game (I'm about to head to the Keyblade Graveyard), but I really feel like this is the most focused, best-paced entry in the series.
 

Sora2016

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No? I don't think think there is much evidence for Disney having been involved in every decision you seemingly don't like other than it seems you don't want to think Nomura made a decision you don't agree with?

I really don't see how they have much to do with the difficulty level or gameplay balance at all? Though to be blunt I also disagree entirely about it being the EASIEST Kh game. I really feel like you guys forget how simple OG KH2 was now that we have Final Mix. I literally beat KH2 in like 3 days and died twice as a literal 12 year old. I have struggled more than that with this game, though admittedly not much more for sure.

Also, base KH1 and 2 barely had any side content post game as well. I once again don't see how this has anything to do with Disney when its literally exactly what always happens. A lot of the side content got added to our version of KH1 and Birth by Sleep specifically, and then the Final Mix versions of all the games clearly added a ton more. If anything, this post game is par for the course. We didn't get any extra goodies cuz we only waited 5 days after Japanese release.

I have gotten more lost in these worlds than any of the other games so I don't know how they are "just hallways" at least, again, any more so than any other game in the series? Also lol, I'm sorry but Nomura definitely needs Disney more than they need him? They literally don't need KH to promote their movies that do ridiculously well already. There wasn't a single obscure film in this game, all were hugely popular already. Also I think they have been clear the KH team picks the worlds themselves.

I haven't finished the game but I think the pacing has been mostly decent as well. At least as good as it was gonna get since they focused on SDG traveling around while a bunch of other stuff happening behind the scenes. I really don't know how much differently this could have gone? It would have needed to be a game about all KH original characters at that point and like, thats not what they wanted this game to be clearly. And I think that was a good decision.

Not saying its perfect. Like idk, your criticisms are rooted in merit. I just don't know why you are blaming "big bad Disney" for issues the series...has always sort of had honestly? I am not seeing anything here that's really new except its the first time in a while a game has been super easy I guess. But its still not the first time so? And honestly all the past games have had broken mechanics people exploited to cheese even the hardest difficulty settings anyway. That is actually something that has been happening for a very long time. Also I guess the bottom line is: I am having a fun ass time. Which is what games are ultimately for. Not every game needs to be challenging to be a good game. Though since this series has had "challenge" (if you don't utilize the broken techniques lol) before, so I get the desire for it. Even I desire it, so I am on that side I just don't think I could ever say its a "bad video game" because its sorta easy.

This is why we need to go back to the Disney Renaissance worlds! I rather they animate stuff from scratch than having restrictions put upon them on what characters can/cannot do. Lowkey, this is why I wanted A Bug's Life in the game...
Toy Story is older than a Bug's Life and Pixar was still involved in its world lol. Monsters Inc isn't much older either. I guess I assume they still care enough about a Bug's Life they would want to be involved as well for even that film despite it not being relevant anytime in the last decade.
 
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OneDandelion

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The final mix games are easier because they include content and abilities the originals don't have, but they also have optional and more difficult boss fights in the end.

But the original games were more difficult. They were more difficult on normal mode and they were actually a challenge on proud mode if you chose it. KH1 could force you into faster/slower leveling process if you weren't aware. Kingdom Hearts 2 had a lot of challenging boss fights with organization 13.

I don't know why you're loling at Nomura needing Disney more than vice versa? It seems you agree with me.

Maybe I'm wrong and Nomura is to blame for the difficulty of the game. But Nomura also has (12?) KH games under his belt and I know how Disney is with their IPs, especially their newer ones. They're probably more lenient with the older ones because they need to make money where they can with them - but the new ones I wouldn't be surprised if they extorted Nomura to the fullest extent.

Disney is probably coming at this with the idea that its the Disney Worlds that sell these games and that they need to make them as beautiful representations as possible. Maybe theres even some truth to that, but if they poor all their money and focus everything on making the game look good then its the gameplay that gets hurt and thats exactly what happened here.

If Nomura is to blame then I would only assume that its because he cares about telling his story more than creating a game. But if thats true then my original comment stands that I wish they would just turn this series into a movie so I don't have to endure the tedious gameplay.
 

horto12485

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This is why we need to go back to the Disney Renaissance worlds! I rather they animate stuff from scratch than having restrictions put upon them on what characters can/cannot do. Lowkey, this is why I wanted A Bug's Life in the game...
That is True maybe the Next saga can Give us More Disney Worlds that we haven't been to yet like Treasure Planet, Pocahontas, Atlantis, Black Cauldron, ETC
 

Face My Fears

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Toy Story is older than a Bug's Life and Pixar was still involved in its world lol. Monsters Inc isn't much older either. I guess I assume they still care enough about a Bug's Life they would want to be involved as well for even that film despite it not being relevant anytime in the last decade.
The reason I said A Bug's Life is because unlike Toy Story and Monsters Inc. it never had a sequel film and it looks like Disney doesn't really care about the IP. They're even removing the A Bug's Life attraction at Disney World.
 

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Sora2016

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The final mix games are easier because they include content and abilities the originals don't have, but they also have optional and more difficult boss fights in the end.

But the original games were more difficult. They were more difficult on normal mode and they were actually a challenge on proud mode if you chose it. KH1 could force you into faster/slower leveling process if you weren't aware. Kingdom Hearts 2 had a lot of challenging boss fights with organization 13.

I don't know why you're loling at Nomura needing Disney more than vice versa? It seems you agree with me.

Maybe I'm wrong and Nomura is to blame for the difficulty of the game. But Nomura also has (12?) KH games under his belt and I know how Disney is with their IPs, especially their newer ones. They're probably more lenient with the older ones because they need to make money where they can with them - but the new ones I wouldn't be surprised if they extorted Nomura to the fullest extent.

Disney is probably coming at this with the idea that its the Disney Worlds that sell these games and that they need to make them as beautiful representations as possible. Maybe theres even some truth to that, but if they poor all their money and focus everything on making the game look good then its the gameplay that gets hurt and thats exactly what happened here.

If Nomura is to blame then I would only assume that its because he cares about telling his story more than creating a game. But if thats true then my original comment stands that I wish they would just turn this series into a movie so I don't have to endure the tedious gameplay.
I said the Final Mix version were harder, not easier. That's what I meant lol. Sorry. But that being said I disagree, KH2 was still not a challenge at all for me on Proud mode. Not till Final Mix anyway. That was actually harder.

And sorry I guess I misunderstood what you meant? I get it now, so yeah we agree that he needs Disney more, I guess since you were blaming Disney I thought you were saying they were using Nomura or something idk.

I guess I don't want all the Original worlds neglected and stuff either for sure. I really don't know exactly what caused them to be so much smaller and lesser in number than the Disney worlds got. But the Disney worlds have always been where like 70% of the games take place so I am glad they have so much love put into them. I wouldn't change that myself. I guess I dunno, if it was a budget thing maybe they could take it down a little to give some more space and time to the original worlds? But we really don't know why this happened as far as I know.

I guess sorry you aren't satisfied with the gameplay but a lot of people disagree overall. A lot of people agree its easy, but we still are having a good time anyway. So I dunno, I think they probably just messed up the balance? Or they overstuffed this game with choices and abilities and couldn't balance it all well and it was too late to just turn back lol. Which I was afraid of for years, so maybe thats why I like it is so much, it really turned out better than I thought.
Turning it into a movie would be not great as it would go from having hours of story and scenes to just like cramming everything into 2 hours. That's why that transition never works well imo.

The reason I said A Bug's Life is because unlike Toy Story and Monsters Inc. it never had a sequel film and it looks like Disney doesn't really care about the IP. They're even removing the A Bug's Life attraction at Disney World.
Right, I guess that could be possible, I just got the feeling Pixar wants to be involved when their IP's are used in general tho. But maybe only the more "relevant" ones applies to them as well.
 
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