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An Unbirth Theory...yes that's what I said.



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Whats Mx's connection with the unbirths then?
 

Zeagal

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what if a heatless and it's matching nobody and unbirth, could they become the whole person again?
Like Avens said you can't be one and have a nobody and heartless. The heartless is the heart corrupted and taken over by heartless and the nobody is the body and soul of a strong hearted person acting on its own. The Unbirths require both a heart body and soul to exist and can't exist if the heart is lost or a nobody exists.
Edit:
Zeagal, if the unbirths have pure hearts, how is it that they can travel through darkness, and why do they fade into darkness after they are destroyed? Otherwise, your explaination looks solid. That's the best I could come up with XD
Well we don't really know what they are using to travel or what they disappear into when defeated, but it does look different than other darkness and adopts a bluish shade. Could be similar to how there is blue fire...maybe corrupt light is blueish as well to the point where it can mimic some properties of darkness we have seen.
I think your theory is amazing. It covers almost everything and makes total sense. I like it way better than my theory. Although if anyone is curious..... YouTube - Unbirths Theory
I like the idea in yours about TAV sealing them away. It could be some how relating to the KK and IKK. Maybe in the OP when I said the Kingdom Hearts of memories may not exist, what if it does, but it's sealed....there's a thought for you. Unbirths could very well come back, something I've thought for a while now.
Whats Mx's connection with the unbirths then?
It could be something as simple as him being after some certain memory. Or perhaps it has to do with his disappearance. He could even be an Unbirth himself, but more so in control than others. I know though he talks about darkness a lot, but he could be wrong...or perhaps corrupted light is darkness...that'd be strange, but I think it would make sense at the same time.
 

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Another piece of support, that I just realized:

In the Birth By Sleep video, NONE of the keyblades (Besides the KK, WtD, Darkside, and MX's/DS's keyblades) have keychains. Nomura made sure to point this out in one of the videos. So, perhaps the keychains represent the memory of the keyblade (like a reminder of how the keychain was achieved, or something like that). This would support your theory that Unbirths are the body/heart without memories, represented through the keyblades in the video. (Oblivion keychain is the memory of Riku, Oathkeeper keychain of Kairi, Divine Rose is of Sora's adventure with Beast, WtD keychain is of Riku's journey from Maleficent's puppet to being Rikunort, Kairi's was of the memory of Sora/DI, etc.) Only issue I have with this sub-support/theory is why do Aqua, Terra, and Ven lack keychains? What do you think of that?
 
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Allister Rose

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Thats why Xion is an unbirth[sarcasm]


Xehanort has no memories, Ven lacking some memories, the unbirth symbol. Im thinking it is hugely involved with memories.

Com=dealing with sora's memories
Days=Roxas memories
Coded=Play through Sora's memories
BBS=Xehanort Past(Memories)
Coded isn't exactly memories, but it does have to replay the past. AS for BBS....just because it's replaying xehanort's past, doesn't mean that the whole story will influence on past.

COM and Days i agree. but still memories are taking much more credit than they should. i know days and COM heavenly influenced memories, but not this one.
Well you lost me with this...I don't get what you mean by saying it failed because of the BwHoPL...the BwHoPL don't have darkness so your comment made no sense to me and seemed rather unfinished.


Well BBS has to deal with something and it can't have to do with losing the heart or the body and soul becoming animated because Nobodies and Heartless didn't exist. So what other thing has been talked about and addressed in the series more than those two? Memories that's what. Who's to say that there isn't more history...the keyblades had to come from somewhere...then there's the keyblade war, but I'm not going to get into detail with those here as it is somewhat off topic.

And as for you two... lol
I agree with finaloblivion13, the two are definately not the same exact person, but they are connected heavily. Them and Terra because lets face it, the resemblance is too prominent to deny.
memories, we have seen memories through out the past kh gaems, but we never actually seen one being used as an enemy, in fact memories have been most useful to kh series.


the question you ask me on who is to say there isn't more history? that's the thing, BBS is barely related to sora. It's sora's story. we cant explain memories of a simple character of a side game.


how about you paraphrase me the kingdom hearts of memories theory along with BwHoPL theory with unbirths, then go into detail. and hopefully i understand this better.

EDIT:
does the name Unbirth have meaning? (Beyond being born by being comatose)
First I'm gonna be blunt...Unbirth's might in fact be BwHoPL(Beings with Hearts of Pure Light) or something similar to it.
Now here's the confusing part because it get's into babies...yes, babies, and not the "in the womb" kind either. Babies when they are born, especially in the real world, are totally and completely innocent, and (sorry to bring religion into this, but I think it's somewhat necessary) if they were to die as a baby, they would be believed by some to go directly to heaven because they have not committed any sin or had a chance to even commit to god....in KH terms the idea would be that they have no darkness in their hearts, full of light, but not forever of course. They can be corrupted as everyone is at least a little bit, aside from the 7 Princesses of Heart, who according to this would be beings immune to the corruption of darkness and thus remain with hearts full of light. When babies are born, they not only are totally and completely innocent, but do not have any memories, sense of self, those three are developed as life goes on. Unbirths would of course be similar to this, except babies are naturally this way.
you see this part of the theory is what i'm talking about...it's just not.....kh style. the theory is too long. i doubt BBS will be about babies.....and do babies even have memories?
 
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Zeagal

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Coded isn't exactly memories, but it does have to replay the past. AS for BBS....just because it's replaying xehanort's past, doesn't mean that the whole story will influence on past.
Well Coded is data from a journal so it is out of records of the past where memory plays a part, but that's getting too technical. Yes as for BBS it's not replaying Xehanort's past at all it is in the past and will focus on all sorts of things besides Xehanort the Apprentice who has yet to be really "created" one being Ven's identity and another the explanation of how the events in KH1 are not coincidence.

COM and Days i agree. but still memories are taking much more credit than they should. i know days and COM heavenly influenced memories, but not this one.
...and you know that how? Memories have been gaining importance since COM and will most likely remain up there and will be involved almost as much as the heart, and since memories are related to the heart it isn't really off base with the series title at all.

memories, we have seen memories through out the past kh gaems, but we never actually seen one being used as an enemy, in fact memories have been most useful to kh series.
Because Namine being manipulated by the org to fuck around with Sora's memories is helpful right? o_O;;
Then of course we have Xion...

the question you ask me on who is to say there isn't more history? that's the thing, BBS is barely related to sora. It's sora's story. we cant explain memories of a simple character of a side game.
Who's this simple character Master Xehanort? Ha, he may be gone now, but you can bet your ass on the fact he and TAV are heavily involved in what Sora is doing in the present and could very likely make a return in KH3.

how about you paraphrase me the kingdom hearts of memories theory along with BwHoPL theory with unbirths, then go into detail. and hopefully i understand this better.
How can I possibly go into any more detail than I already have. It'd be easier for you to just tell me when I lost you.

you see this part of the theory is what i'm talking about...it's just not.....kh style. the theory is too long. i doubt BBS will be about babies.....and do babies even have memories?
I never said anything about BBS being about babies and babies having no memories is exactly the point.

Another piece of support, that I just realized:
Okay...
In the Birth By Sleep video, NONE of the keyblades (Besides the KK, WtD, Darkside, and MX's/DS's keyblades) have keychains.
It's easier to say just TAV don't have keychains.
Nomura made sure to point this out in one of the videos. So, perhaps the keychains represent the memory of the keyblade (like a reminder of how the keychain was achieved, or something like that).
Well I agree that keyblades to relate to memory in some way such as getting a specific keychain for a keyblade already having one, but the lack of keychains on TAV's keyblade more likely reflect their apprentice status than anything.

This would support your theory that Unbirths are the body/heart without memories, represented through the keyblades in the video.
I fail to see a connection between memories manifested into a keychain and Unbirths...

(Oblivion keychain is the memory of Riku, Oathkeeper keychain of Kairi, Divine Rose is of Sora's adventure with Beast, WtD keychain is of Riku's journey from Maleficent's puppet to being Rikunort, Riku's other one he let Kairi borrow when he was dual-wielding was of the memory of DI, etc.)
Fixed ^^

Only issue I have with this sub-support/theory is why do Aqua, Terra, and Ven lack keychains? What do you think of that?
Like I said before they likely do not have keychains because they are still in training and once they become masters the keychains will be there, that is if they actually finish it.
 

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Well Coded is data from a journal so it is out of records of the past where memory plays a part, but that's getting too technical. Yes as for BBS it's not replaying Xehanort's past at all it is in the past and will focus on all sorts of things besides Xehanort the Apprentice who has yet to be really "created" one being Ven's identity and another the explanation of how the events in KH1 are not coincidence.


...and you know that how? Memories have been gaining importance since COM and will most likely remain up there and will be involved almost as much as the heart, and since memories are related to the heart it isn't really off base with the series title at all.


Because Namine being manipulated by the org to fuck around with Sora's memories is helpful right? o_O;;
Then of course we have Xion...


Who's this simple character Master Xehanort? Ha, he may be gone now, but you can bet your ass on the fact he and TAV are heavily involved in what Sora is doing in the present and could very likely make a return in KH3.


How can I possibly go into any more detail than I already have. It'd be easier for you to just tell me when I lost you.


I never said anything about BBS being about babies and babies having no memories is exactly the point.


Okay...
yes i know they are involved sora, but i meant that how is it possible for BBS to be about memories, since it's the origin of sora's story.
Also, memories have had there moment, i do believe any more talk about memories and it will just get tiring....it's like memories are the fricken ultimate weapon/key/enemy (if unbirths involved memory)

memories have gotten importance since COM, but should every game be about memories? only kh1 and kh2 arent about memories. IF BBS is about memories, most likely kh3 will be too. It disrupts the flow. Like Riku, he doesn't dwell on the memories as much.

you lost me on the moment you talked about unbirths and babies and kingdom hearts. paraphase those two last sections pleasE?

but keychains most likely are. try not to get side-track over little statements that arent important to the argument. focus on the what i'm trying to say, not the little examples i'm saying
 

Allister Rose

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im dont think i understand why they turn into an unbirth

they loose their memories, and poof?
why would this effect a whole being
In COM, marluxia wanted to erase the memories in sora, so his heart would be crushed and be reformed. more likely something closer to a nobody.
 

Allister Rose

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well marluxia was wrong on many levels

for example, the only way for the heart to fully collapse(which is what marluxia wanted) all the memories would need to be gone

and namine cant destroy memories
but memories are attached to the heart, and even namine knew if she unlinked the memories in his heart, then sora;s heart would collapse
 

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I think it's about time that everyone acknowledges the most likely fact, memories wil play a major role in BBS. Memories and the heart go hand in hand and it's not unlikely that when memories are all taken that an unbirth is created as I, the creator of this thread, and others have suggested.
 

Griever!

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I think it's about time that everyone acknowledges the most likely fact, memories wil play a major role in BBS. Memories and the heart go hand in hand and it's not unlikely that when memories are all taken that an unbirth is created as I, the creator of this thread, and others have suggested.
I approve this message ._. as well as Zeagal's theory the baby thing meh but the rest of it I believe are fairly solid :) this also helps in some aspects of the thoughts that I have had about the present day KH. still makes me think about the contents of BbS, What's missing there that might answer the rest of the questions we have for kh2... or at least what could help. I am just waiting for everything to come full circle on how everything happened.

You put alot of thought into this and even borrowing a few ideas you still made it your own

Rep~
 

Allister Rose

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I think it's about time that everyone acknowledges the most likely fact, memories wil play a major role in BBS. Memories and the heart go hand in hand and it's not unlikely that when memories are all taken that an unbirth is created as I, the creator of this thread, and others have suggested.
and where is this fact? dont act smart....just make assumptions/theories like the rest of us who dont know
 

Zeagal

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yes i know they are involved sora, but i meant that how is it possible for BBS to be about memories, since it's the origin of sora's story.
It isn't all about them of course, but it's a given that there in there, and like I said before the past, especially in this case, can and likely will become relevant to Sora and the conclusion of his story. Otherwise there would be no real need for BBS at all.

Also, memories have had there moment, i do believe any more talk about memories and it will just get tiring....it's like memories are the fricken ultimate weapon/key/enemy (if unbirths involved memory)
Really it will get tiring? Why, because it's maybe the second or third most talked about thing in the series? That makes perfect sense o_o;; and would it really surprise you that memories are that powerful. Look at what happened in COM. It's practically a testament to how powerful and important memories are.

memories have gotten importance since COM, but should every game be about memories? only kh1 and kh2 arent about memories. IF BBS is about memories, most likely kh3 will be too. It disrupts the flow. Like Riku, he doesn't dwell on the memories as much.
You talk about it as if memories are the only things that will be featured and that a game can only have one. The games won't be only about memories and even if they are, it won't disrupt the flow.

you lost me on the moment you talked about unbirths and babies and kingdom hearts. paraphase those two last sections pleasE?
Im the theory, Unbirths=people who lost the memories and contents of their heart mainly the sense of self and purpose (note: before a time when a heart would simply collapse although this could very well be what happens if my theory is slightly off, but it still could result in an Unbirth imo) They are in no way babies, just the hearts are in a similar state which gives meaning to the name. The babies of the world are born with innocent light in their hearts (no memories, no real sense of self, no purpose) that slowly gets corrupted by darkness as the world dictates to happen to everyone but the POH. The Kingdom Hearts shown then is titled by me as the Kingdom Hearts of Memories. It is a giant container for the contents of the hearts of those who became Unbirths to gather and acts like a heart itself, and it may or may not be around in the KH universe currently. Did that make any more sense to you?

but keychains most likely are. try not to get side-track over little statements that arent important to the argument. focus on the what i'm trying to say, not the little examples i'm saying
The keychains are what? And there's no way for someone to be able to get your point if the examples made no sense. They are supposed to help the overall point and therefore, no matter how you feel about it, need to be focused upon in order for the person to get the overall idea.

im dont think i understand why they turn into an unbirth
they loose their memories, and poof?
why would this effect a whole being
They lose their memories unnaturally creating a decay in the heart where the person's sense of self and purpose in life deteriorate to the point of mutation of the body more or less. The mutation occurs because the state of the heart, not unlike that of an infant (hence the name Unbirth), does not align correctly with the body and soul. Get it now?

In COM, marluxia wanted to erase the memories in sora, so his heart would be crushed and be reformed. more likely something closer to a nobody.
To me it wouldn't be that much of a stretch at all for it to be more like an Unbirth. Sora already had a nobody, which is the only thing really differing from the case of someone who is to become an Unbirth.

and where is this fact? dont act smart....just make assumptions/theories like the rest of us who dont know
And what part of that are you not sure is factual? Memories were pretty much confirmed to be in BBS the second the words "Xehanort's Memories" flashed on the screen.
 
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