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An Unbirth Theory...yes that's what I said.



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Jfighter

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I just thought of a possible implication for KH3: (Please know that I have neither played 358/2 Days nor CoM, but read extensively on various summary sites)

If Unbirths are the Body + Heart - Memories, then was the Organization's Replica Project an attempt at creating controllable Unbirths of certain people? Riku Replica and Xion were made from memories (RR was mentioned in one of the Secret Reports), but did not [i]have[/i] the memories of their original selves, did they? I spoilered the entire thing as I am not sure about how much I need to spoilerfy to stop people from being spoiled about 358/2 Days.
 

Allister Rose

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actually idont think the emblem is necessary for the theory. i mean, heartless have a heart with an X on it, doesnt actually mean much, and the nobody simple is splintered, unside-down version of the heartless symbol
EDIT: also i tihnk the theory failed the moment you siad they were BwHoPL since they dont have any darkness. unless you mkae memories the body...
 

Zeagal

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I just thought of a possible implication for KH3: (Please know that I have neither played 358/2 Days nor CoM, but read extensively on various summary sites)

If Unbirths are the Body + Heart - Memories, then was the Organization's Replica Project an attempt at creating controllable Unbirths of certain people? Riku Replica and Xion were made from memories (RR was mentioned in one of the Secret Reports), but did not [I]have[/I] the memories of their original selves, did they? I spoilered the entire thing as I am not sure about how much I need to spoilerfy to stop people from being spoiled about 358/2 Days.
PM me if you want to talk about this further with more detail on replicas, I don't think it wise to be this spoily here...I will say I think there's more than one side to the memory issue and that I think of repliku as being not so related to the Unbirths because the Unbirths aren't the memories, but what's left after memories are taken out.
It's like a mix of almost everyone's unbirth theories put into the mother theory xDD Where's the credit :(
I gave credit in the OP that I took some bits from other theories. I didn't go down a list of names, but I said credit to those people.

I like it!

[Aquaxion:] Approves! xD]
...good...

I read it but I didn't read the questions, is that ok?
What do you mean by that?

actually idont think the emblem is necessary for the theory. i mean, heartless have a heart with an X on it, doesnt actually mean much, and the nobody simple is splintered, unside-down version of the heartless symbol
Maybe, but the symbol does lend itself in support of the theory.

EDIT: also i tihnk the theory failed the moment you siad they were BwHoPL since they dont have any darkness. unless you mkae memories the body...
Can you clarify or elaborate here, I'm not sure what you are trying to say...
 
Z

Zulkir

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This is a very interesting idea. I do have to ask, though, how this would be explained in BBS? Your idea seems to require quite a bit of explanation.


The blue kingdom hearts that MX summons being the Kingdom Hearts of memories is probably the best part of this idea, it could explain perfectly why it was blue.
 

Allister Rose

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What do you mean by that?


Maybe, but the symbol does lend itself in support of the theory.


Can you clarify or elaborate here, I'm not sure what you are trying to say...

How does the name Unbirth have meaning? (Beyond being born by being comatose)
First I'm gonna be blunt...Unbirth's might in fact be BwHoPL(Beings with Hearts of Pure Light) or something similar to it.
Now here's the confusing part because it get's into babies...yes, babies, and not the "in the womb" kind either. Babies when they are born, especially in the real world, are totally and completely innocent, and (sorry to bring religion into this, but I think it's somewhat necessary) if they were to die as a baby, they would be believed by some to go directly to heaven because they have not committed any sin or had a chance to even commit to god....in KH terms the idea would be that they have no darkness in their hearts, full of light, but not forever of course. They can be corrupted as everyone is at least a little bit, aside from the 7 Princesses of Heart, who according to this would be beings immune to the corruption of darkness and thus remain with hearts full of light. When babies are born, they not only are totally and completely innocent, but do not have any memories, sense of self, those three are developed as life goes on. Unbirths would of course be similar to this, except babies are naturally this way.

Here's where it gets more into meaning of the word...by having a being with fully developed memories, sense of self, and purpose, suddenly lose them, their hearts are unnaturally reverted to the state of an infant having just been born and are now, in a way, re-born, kind of ironic with the name no? Except these beings are not meant to be in that condition and thus the light they have is now corrupt because any darkness that would have been in their hearts left with the memories and all that. Thus creating a sort of mutant for lack of a better term giving meaning to the word Unbirth in a similar fashion to that of a Heartless and Nobody.

Last major obstacle and one I admittedly can't fully defeat at this time...Why are they extinct?
In order to even begin to answer this I have to explain another crazy idea...the Kingdom Hearts Master Xehanort summoned in the secret trailer was the Kingdom Hearts of memories. Like a giant heart, it gathers the contents of the hearts of those who are now Unbirths in itself. I believe that this Kingdom Hearts may not even exist anymore due to events that took place in the BBS game and it is now impossible to become an Unbirth. Why and how this all happened I'm sorry to say I don't know or can't think of a decent explanation at this time that woudn't require vast knowledge of BBS. A thought I had about this would be that MX was searching for it in order to harness the powers of people's memories...or perhaps retrieve those of a specific individual. I also have ideas concerning Ven and DS becoming, pertaining to Ven, or already being, directed to DS, Unbirths.

Phew, sorry that was so long. I'm glad I got that all out, and believe it or not, I probably forgot to mention something...hopefully someone will make a counter argument that will jog my memory. If you read this far I thank you for your time, hopefully this made sense to you. I am looking forward to any debates that may come out of this.

i meant this half,

the BwhoPL paragraph, was just utter non-sense IMO. but then again it could work out.

the kingdom hearts of memories? than wouldnt they just call it kingdom memories? It's almost as if kingdom hearts was a giant polar opposite of unbirth that is trying to reach out to them. tyhen...all unbirth's would be sucked into kingdom hearts of memories? wouldnt they turn whole?

I get memories hold some importance in kh, but you have to understand that it cant fall in EVERY kh game. I know xemnas thought memories were importnat, but that's jsut because he didnt remember everything.
 

Zeagal

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This is a very interesting idea. I do have to ask, though, how this would be explained in BBS? Your idea seems to require quite a bit of explanation.
I imagine the player wouldn't get the whole thing until after playing all three scenarios. Plus there could be secret reports about it like in other games.
The blue kingdom hearts that MX summons being the Kingdom Hearts of memories is probably the best part of this idea, it could explain perfectly why it was blue.
Like how a lot of Unbirths are blue right?

i meant this half,

the BwhoPL paragraph, was just utter non-sense IMO. but then again it could work out.
How so to you?

the kingdom hearts of memories? than wouldnt they just call it kingdom memories?
Not really, it's like a giant container for the contents of the people who became Unbirth's hearts and would be light a heart itself because of that.
It's almost as if kingdom hearts was a giant polar opposite of unbirth that is trying to reach out to them. tyhen...all unbirth's would be sucked into kingdom hearts of memories? wouldnt they turn whole?
You got this impression from my theory? It doesn't make sense to me. The Unbirths are not getting sucked to this Kingdom Hearts...

I get memories hold some importance in kh, but you have to understand that it cant fall in EVERY kh game. I know xemnas thought memories were importnat, but that's jsut because he didnt remember everything.
I'm sorry but I beg to differ, memories are just as important as the sense of self or the three components of the being are to the Kingdom Hearts series and is becoming more and more prominant in the games.
 

keybladelegacy

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i meant this half,

the BwhoPL paragraph, was just utter non-sense IMO. but then again it could work out.

the kingdom hearts of memories? than wouldnt they just call it kingdom memories? It's almost as if kingdom hearts was a giant polar opposite of unbirth that is trying to reach out to them. tyhen...all unbirth's would be sucked into kingdom hearts of memories? wouldnt they turn whole?
I also think it is a KH of memories. Like a giant heart itself collecting memories from within other heart. Like if the unbirths are those that lose their memories the memories goes to KH. But thats just me.
 

Allister Rose

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I'm sorry but I beg to differ, memories are just as important as the sense of self or the three components of the being are to the Kingdom Hearts series and is becoming more and more prominant in the games.
\

maybe you can paraphrase your unbirth theory?

then add detail after?

also...memorise havent hold true importance in kh1 or kh2. chain fomemories it did, and 358/2 days seesm to aswell. but the only thing i could see BBS doing with memory, is answering xehanort's past.

Also, it's ten years before the original kh game. and memories are about rememberign the past. Why does MX see the importance of memories if there would have to be a connection on why he would see them important. Unless there's more past ot look over than there already is
 

keybladelegacy

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my theory is that unbirths r memories and i'm sticking to it.
Thats why Xion is an unbirth[sarcasm]

Allister Nine said:
also...memorise havent hold true importance in kh1 or kh2. chain fomemories it did, and 358/2 days seesm to aswell. but the only thing i could see BBS doing with memory, is answering xehanort's past.
Xehanort has no memories, Ven lacking some memories, the unbirth symbol. Im thinking it is hugely involved with memories.

Com=dealing with sora's memories
Days=Roxas memories
Coded=Play through Sora's memories
BBS=Xehanort Past(Memories)
 

finaloblivion13

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Thats why Xion is an unbirth[sarcasm]


Xehanort has no memories, Ven lacking some memories, the unbirth symbol. Im thinking it is hugely involved with memories.

Com=dealing with sora's memories
Days=Roxas memories
Coded=Play through Sora's memories
BBS=Xehanort Past(Memories)

yes, but i must say i don't think Mx and xehanort are the same person.
 

keybladelegacy

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yes, but i must say i don't think Mx and xehanort are the same person.
Are you serious? Master Xehanort and Xehanort the apprentice.

MX clothes and Ansem SoD clothes are identical.

Xemnas talking to Aqua's clothes. XP

Xehanort the apprentice strange abilities.

*light bulb* connection.
 

finaloblivion13

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Are you serious? Master Xehanort and Xehanort the apprentice.

MX clothes and Ansem SoD clothes are identical.

Xemnas talking to Aqua's clothes. XP

Xehanort the apprentice strange abilities.

*light bulb* connection.
i think they're related somehow, but not the same person.
 

Zeagal

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\

maybe you can paraphrase your unbirth theory?

then add detail after?
Allister Nine said:
also i tihnk the theory failed the moment you siad they were BwHoPL since they dont have any darkness. unless you mkae memories the body...
Well you lost me with this...I don't get what you mean by saying it failed because of the BwHoPL...the BwHoPL don't have darkness so your comment made no sense to me and seemed rather unfinished.

also...memorise havent hold true importance in kh1 or kh2. chain fomemories it did, and 358/2 days seesm to aswell. but the only thing i could see BBS doing with memory, is answering xehanort's past.

Also, it's ten years before the original kh game. and memories are about rememberign the past. Why does MX see the importance of memories if there would have to be a connection on why he would see them important. Unless there's more past ot look over than there already is
Well BBS has to deal with something and it can't have to do with losing the heart or the body and soul becoming animated because Nobodies and Heartless didn't exist. So what other thing has been talked about and addressed in the series more than those two? Memories that's what. Who's to say that there isn't more history...the keyblades had to come from somewhere...then there's the keyblade war, but I'm not going to get into detail with those here as it is somewhat off topic.

And as for you two... lol
I agree with finaloblivion13, the two are definately not the same exact person, but they are connected heavily. Them and Terra because lets face it, the resemblance is too prominent to deny.
 
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keybladelegacy

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Zeagal said:
Well you lost me with this...I don't get what you mean by saying it failed because of the BwHoPL...the BwHoPL don't have darkness so your comment made no sense to me and seemed rather unfinished.
I guess their confused on how they are changed into the unbirths. That if they are BWHoPL darkness cant be involved.
 
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Zeagal

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Darkness isn't involved...well after the fact...A normal person who isn't a BwHoPL loses their memories and all the contents of their heart and enter the comatose state awaiting their mutation. The darkness leaves with the memories, but the light that comes with the innocence of an infant still remains as if the person had just been born creating the BwHoPL part. Now they most likely are not true BwHoPL like the POH's are, but they are on the same plane. What separates them are that the POH's still have all the contents of their heart, the memories, sense of self, and purpose, no darkness while the Unbirths have nothing but the light of an innocent infant that the POH's were some how able to retain. The mutation to an Unbirth then would be caused by the body and soul not matching up with what's in the heart.
 

Avens

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what if a heatless and it's matching nobody and unbirth, could they become the whole person again?
You can't be an unbirth in this theory without both your heart and body; therefore, the situation is impossible.

Edit:
Zeagal, if the unbirths have pure hearts, how is it that they can travel through darkness, and why do they fade into darkness after they are destroyed? Otherwise, your explaination looks solid. That's the best I could come up with XD
 
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