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An Unbirth Theory...yes that's what I said.



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Zeagal

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Normally I don't post theories about Unbirths because it's usually an area I think so little is known about that it is all too grey, but last night I couldn't sleep and an idea came to mind. Parts of this is borrowed from points I remembered about other theories, so credit goes to those people respectively, but I also hope to add something new...here goes nothing. I'll start off here with the basic idea of what an Unbirth is and then try to answer any obvious questions I can think of that would cause my idea to go down in flames.

This part isn't new...Unbirths are beings who have had their memories taken, lost, or forcibly removed, you've all heard of this and how they could connect to memories because the symbol is a folded memory card from Castle Oblivion, allow me to expand on how losing memories would create something as wild as an Unbirth rather than simply amnesia.

The Unbirth symbol is made of three sections, the two round parts and the square. They are all empty. To me the three sections stand for something rather than the obvious heart, body, and soul. One I believe is memories, obvious, another is sense of self, something the memories help shape, and one more that I think goes along the lines of a purpose in life. Now I know that hasn't been addressed by Kingdom Hearts before but for this theory it's important enough to warrant it's own section...Now what would happen if one loses their memories? To me the other two, sense of self and purpose, would go out with it because without memories the being wouldn't know who or what they were nor what they are supposed to be doing. That in turn would cause mutation and the being would revert to the form of an Unbirth which franticly is searching for new memories inorder to regain a sense of self and purpose thus explaining their wild movements and how the Unbirths multiply in number. The memories they take from others don't belong with them and are then rejected resulting in the person whose memories were taken to become an Unbirth and the Unbirth who took them to remain one.

...That's the basic idea I have, on to the obstacles...

How are they ancestors of the Heartless?
That one isn't so hard to think of an answer for. The heartless are made when a person loses their heart to darkness causing it to sort of take on a life of it's own. This to me is the next logical step from the idea of an Unbirth. Taking out the contents of the heart....taking out the heart itself. Makes sense to me.

Don't people simply become comatose when their memories are lost?
That question I remember being asked about something else I brought up a while ago. Not sure if that really is a good question because asking it makes it lose automatically assuming the question is correct and beings do in fact enter a comatose state when memories are taken. A coma as defined in a dictionary means a state of deep prolonged unconsciousness...sounds a little like a deep sleep...birth by sleep...hello! The Unbirths wouldn't start moving around on their own right away I would assume. Once the memories leave it would be a little while before the sense of self and purpose leave or rather decay and during that time the person would be in a state similar to a coma and be "born" as an Unbirth through the sleeping process.

How does the name Unbirth have meaning? (Beyond being born by being comatose)
First I'm gonna be blunt...Unbirth's might in fact be BwHoPL(Beings with Hearts of Pure Light) or something similar to it.
Now here's the confusing part because it get's into babies...yes, babies, and not the "in the womb" kind either. Babies when they are born, especially in the real world, are totally and completely innocent, and (sorry to bring religion into this, but I think it's somewhat necessary) if they were to die as a baby, they would be believed by some to go directly to heaven because they have not committed any sin or had a chance to even commit to god....in KH terms the idea would be that they have no darkness in their hearts, full of light, but not forever of course. They can be corrupted as everyone is at least a little bit, aside from the 7 Princesses of Heart, who according to this would be beings immune to the corruption of darkness and thus remain with hearts full of light. When babies are born, they not only are totally and completely innocent, but do not have any memories, sense of self, or purpose; those three are developed as life goes on. Unbirths would of course be similar to this, except babies are naturally this way.

Here's where it gets more into meaning of the word...by having a being with fully developed memories, sense of self, and purpose, suddenly lose them, their hearts are unnaturally reverted to the state of an infant having just been born and are now, in a way, re-born, kind of ironic with the name no? Except these beings are not meant to be in that condition and thus the light they have is now corrupt because any darkness that would have been in their hearts left with the memories and all that. Thus creating a sort of mutant for lack of a better term giving meaning to the word Unbirth in a similar fashion to that of a Heartless and Nobody.

Last major obstacle and one I admittedly can't fully defeat at this time...Why are they extinct?
In order to even begin to answer this I have to explain another crazy idea...the Kingdom Hearts Master Xehanort summoned in the secret trailer was the Kingdom Hearts of memories. Like a giant heart, it gathers the contents of the hearts of those who are now Unbirths in itself. I believe that this Kingdom Hearts may not even exist anymore due to events that took place in the BBS game and it is now impossible to become an Unbirth. Why and how this all happened I'm sorry to say I don't know or can't think of a decent explanation at this time that woudn't require vast knowledge of BBS. A thought I had about this would be that MX was searching for it in order to harness the powers of people's memories...or perhaps retrieve those of a specific individual. I also have ideas concerning Ven and DS becoming, pertaining to Ven, or already being, directed to DS, Unbirths.

Phew, sorry that was so long. I'm glad I got that all out, and believe it or not, I probably forgot to mention something...hopefully someone will make a counter argument that will jog my memory. If you read this far I thank you for your time, hopefully this made sense to you. I am looking forward to any debates that may come out of this.
 
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Incendia

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This is one of the best theories I've read on these boards having thought of everything
 

Zeagal

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Oh thank god someone who cares enough to read it no matter the length. Thank you.
 

Zeagal

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It has been said by Nomura that they can be thought of as that. Check the every thing we know about BBS thread for info about Unbirths.
 

Valentine

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It's very well though out, impressively so. That being said, it's still just a theory, and it seems to me that a concept like that couldn't be grasped by children, which is who Disney is marketing this series to.
 

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I have to say that this is the first, and the BEST Unbirth theory, I have read. I cannot find one flaw in your reasoning.
Especially since that can fit in now that Xion is a replica made from memories, from what I understand; so that + the events of CoM means that Sora MIGHT have an Unbirth, possibly

Actually one thing:

In an interview, Nomura said, "they are the opposite of human life." How does that fit in?
 
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Door To Twilight

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^^ Ur spoiler's showing.

I may be totally stating the obvious on this one but in COM doesn't Reverse Rebirth Kinda Mean Unbirth? Maybe that's a hidden reason as to why "Posessed" Riku <<(Forgot the common term) looks alot like DS. {Sorry if I'm posting a new theory inside yours Zeagal.}
 

Avens

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Now what would happen if one loses their memories? To me the other two, sense of self and purpose, would go out with it ...

A coma as defined in a dictionary means a state of deep prolonged unconsciousness...sounds a little like a deep sleep...birth by sleep...hello! The Unbirths wouldn't start moving around on their own right away I would assume.

How does the name Unbirth have meaning? (Beyond being born by being comatose)
First I'm gonna be blunt...Unbirth's might in fact be BwHoPL(Beings with Hearts of Pure Light) or something similar to it. ...
... babies are born, they not only are totally and completely innocent, but do not have any memories, sense of self, those three are developed as life goes on. Unbirths would of course be similar to this, except babies are naturally this way.
... Except these beings are not meant to be in that condition and thus the light they have is now corrupt because any darkness that would have been in their hearts left with the memories and all that. Thus creating a sort of mutant for lack of a better term giving meaning to the word Unbirth in a similar fashion to that of a Heartless and Nobody.

Last major obstacle and one I admittedly can't fully defeat at this time...Why are they extinct?

I pretty much agree with your ideas. Interesting connection with the three hollow parts of the symbol-- I tend to think it's just representative of an empty heart, but that explanation is new to me.

Right, although it seems to me like Ven is going through that process while awake...
Also, remember how when Xehanort the apprentice was experimenting, and the hearts of his test subjects collapsed? They didn't become heartless immediately; if the first heartless took time to alter, what's to say unbirths couldn't?
~tangent theory I've been thinking on: might becoming an unbirth be like a plague, hence AtW's determination to study darkness of the heart so that it would never happen again, and the 'treatment' Xehanort talks of that didn't work on heartless?

Meh, I'm not sold on the idea of unbirths being like baby BwHo-Corrupt -L. I don't have a reason for you yet, but I'll post again after I've thought on it. ^^

It's painful not to have enough information, no?
Personally, I think that existence-wise, unbirths are like nobodies except without a sense of perseverance. So as an unbirth searches unceasingly for memories to fill their hearts, they inevitably deteriorate as their energy is wasted. Unlike nobodies, who have to rest etc., they don't know when to stop. But as you said, not enough info to say much.

Overall, I enjoyed reading this, good job.
 

Zeagal

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It's very well though out, impressively so. That being said, it's still just a theory, and it seems to me that a concept like that couldn't be grasped by children, which is who Disney is marketing this series to.
Days Spoilers...sorry, but it's the only example I can think of atm to counter your argument.
And having xion be a replica whose appearance is changed by Sora's memories to the point where she basically gets a sex change isn't complicated enough?

I have to say that this is the first, and the BEST Unbirth theory, I have read. I cannot find one flaw in your reasoning.
Especially since that can fit in now that Xion is a replica made from memories, from what I understand; so that + the events of CoM means that Sora MIGHT have an Unbirth, possibly
Your spoilers didn't work, I fixed in quote though. So I recommend changing your post too. The tag is [ spoilers ] [ /spoilers ] no spaces.
Going by this theory it is actually impossible for someone like Sora to just have an unbirth and still be himself.
Actually one thing:

In an interview, Nomura said, "they are the opposite of human life." How does that fit in?
Well if the person has no memories, no sense of self, no purpose, and yet is still living that would to me would be something that is alive yet not at the same time. They have nothing guiding them mentally really when all that is gone...no real individual consciousness thoughts or emotions almost like a zombie.

I may be totally stating the obvious on this one but in COM doesn't Reverse Rebirth Kinda Mean Unbirth? Maybe that's a hidden reason as to why "Posessed" Riku <<(Forgot the common term) looks alot like DS. {Sorry if I'm posting a new theory inside yours Zeagal.}
While that's not an entirely new thought, it does make sense to me that a reverse rebirth might have a similar meaning literally to Unbirth, but not so much according to my theory. As for the connection between Rikunort <-That's the term and DS based on wardrobe, I'm not sure why they are so similar, but I don't think Unbirths have that much to do with it.
 
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Memory Master

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Well really this is just an expanded version of my theory and theories of some other people. I suppose he used my theory as inspiration since this has so many similarities to my theory.

Anyways we came to the same conclusion so I approve of this theory because it's similar to mine.
 

Neko

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This is the best Unbirth theory I`ve read so far, and imo makes perfect sense. Nice job! Although I`m not much of a theory person.
 
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I like this.

The thing that is bothering me is that Xehanort lost his memories yet he still walked around like nothing happened. Could you explain that?
 

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Days Spoilers...sorry, but it's the only example I can think of atm to counter your argument.
And having xion be a replica whose appearance is changed by Sora's memories to the point where she basically gets a sex change isn't complicated enough?
Right. XD If anything, we expected BBS to be the darkest of the three new games (or, I did...).
 

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the only thing wrong with the theory that i can think of is this > Commenting on the name Unbirths, Nomura has said "There is meaning in various ways, adding "un" creates the opposite meaning of "birth" thus the "unbirth". With this, the "unborn" is given real meaning."< i'm not sure if i misinterpreted what you wrote but i think you said that because their memories are gone they are sent back to a state of having no memories thus being like a developing child with no memories, but the way i look at the quote, it seems like he is saying that unbirths are just dead ("un" creates the opposite meaning of "birth" thus the "unbirth".) and not having the characteristics of an unborn child. He also says it has many meanings and this is the best theory i've seen yet so i think you should stick with it.
 

Zeagal

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I like this.

The thing that is bothering me is that Xehanort lost his memories yet he still walked around like nothing happened. Could you explain that?
Now that is something I think has to do more with BBS details than the big picture. First off, before even knowing anything about the games events, he could very well be an exception to the rule. Besides, we do not yet know what he is even made up of, so don't think we should really go there at this time. Looking to the theory...He could also have lost his memories in some large event relating to the Kingdom Hearts of Memories not existing anymore.
Well really this is just an expanded version of my theory and theories of some other people. I suppose he used my theory as inspiration since this has so many similarities to my theory.
Yes I noted that...and *points to comment about babies in wombs* I really liked your theory except for that part about comparing it all to being in the womb and I tried to fix it I guess. I tried to add some new thoughts, see any?
Right, although it seems to me like Ven is going through that process while awake...
Again there could be exceptions to the rule and also it is possible for him to have not completely lost his memories yet, but is beginning to. Like MX is leeching it out of him resulting in a slower transformation.

Also, remember how when Xehanort the apprentice was experimenting, and the hearts of his test subjects collapsed? They didn't become heartless immediately; if the first heartless took time to alter, what's to say unbirths couldn't?
I suppose in some or even most of the cases the transformation to an unbirth wouldn't take place all at once.

~tangent theory I've been thinking on: might becoming an unbirth be like a plague, hence AtW's determination to study darkness of the heart so that it would never happen again, and the 'treatment' Xehanort talks of that didn't work on heartless?
Interesting I like it....

Meh, I'm not sold on the idea of unbirths being like baby BwHo-Corrupt -L. I don't have a reason for you yet, but I'll post again after I've thought on it. ^^
Well they aren't baby BwHo-Corrupt-L, they are similar to infants in that their hearts are in a similar state to that of an infant, but unnaturally so giving meaning to the name Unbirth.

It's painful not to have enough information, no?
Personally, I think that existence-wise, unbirths are like nobodies except without a sense of perseverance. So as an unbirth searches unceasingly for memories to fill their hearts, they inevitably deteriorate as their energy is wasted. Unlike nobodies, who have to rest etc., they don't know when to stop. But as you said, not enough info to say much.
I somewhat agree with that. I do think they do their searching unceasingly, but I doubt their similarities to Nobodies go beyond their need to rest and burning out if they don't which could even be a reason for their extinction. Unbirths are more similar to Heartless in my mind acting more on instinct and impulse.
 
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Crossroads

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Now that is something I think has to do more with BBS details than the big picture. First off, before even knowing anything about the games events, he could very well be an exception to the rule. Besides, we do not yet know what he is even made up of, so don't think we should really go there at this time. Looking to the theory...He could also have lost his memories in some large event relating to the Kingdom Hearts of Memories not existing anymore.

I'm content with that answer. :D
 

Zeagal

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the only thing wrong with the theory that i can think of is this > Commenting on the name Unbirths, Nomura has said "There is meaning in various ways, adding "un" creates the opposite meaning of "birth" thus the "unbirth". With this, the "unborn" is given real meaning."< i'm not sure if i misinterpreted what you wrote but i think you said that because their memories are gone they are sent back to a state of having no memories thus being like a developing child with no memories, but the way i look at the quote, it seems like he is saying that unbirths are just dead ("un" creates the opposite meaning of "birth" thus the "unbirth".) and not having the characteristics of an unborn child. He also says it has many meanings and this is the best theory i've seen yet so i think you should stick with it.
Well they aren't dead, since they are there, but I get you on a literal and grammatical level. Unbirth should mean a dead person, but instead here I take it as being almost reborn unnaturally without previously dying and through the loss of their memories, sense of self, and purpose achieve a state in the heart similar to that of someone just born, but unlike it because the body and soul don't match with that of an infant.
 

Aqua.

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It's like a mix of almost everyone's unbirth theories put into the mother theory xDD Where's the credit :(

I like it!

[Aquaxion:] Approves! xD]


I read it but I didn't read the questions, is that ok?
 
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