Agnosticism and the Major Stupidity of it

[Cool man]

I nowadays read on many a forums people who, at the expense of atheism, convert their beliefs to agnosticism because they find atheism to be illogical. As it also turns out, most of these people have no shit-idea as to what the hell agnosticism is anyway.

Agnosticism is not the belief that one believes in a God-like figure but can never know its true identity. If you believe that, you fit in to the category of agnosticism quite well, but not in the damn way you thought you did.

No. Agnosticism is the denial of all knowledge. It's in the name: "a", as in "without" or "taken away" + "gnosis" as greek for "knowledge".

Seriously, you agnostics. Isn't your belief so fantastically humiliating? To admit you're absolutely clueless about everything? What do you really have to live for if you can't know any meaning of it? Becuase that just almost about blends nihilism and agnosticism into one singular "belief"!

Enlighten me please. Your lives seem so utterly worthless to me through this.

 

[Hypoxium]

no religious bashing.

And I thought that agnosticism was where you just believe that you aren't able to know if God exists or not.

Since we can't be sure, I would assume that's one of the most logical religions.

 

[shrekdog]

Obviously when someone says they're agnostic in a religious sense (such as myself, for one), they're speaking, well, in terms of religion.

Also, you're retarded. You're confusing the meaning of 'gnosis'. Whilst it may have been used by the Greek for 'knowledge', in common English it's used to describe spiritual knowledge.

'gno·sis (nss)
n.
Intuitive apprehension of spiritual truths, an esoteric form of knowledge sought by the Gnostics.

'gnosis
Main Entry:
gno·sis Listen to the pronunciation of gnosis
Pronunciation:
\ˈnō-səs\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
Greek gnōsis, literally, knowledge, from gignōskein
Date:
1703
: esoteric knowledge of spiritual truth held by the ancient Gnostics to be essential to salvation'

Also;

ag·nos·tic Audio Help /ægˈnɒstɪk/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ag-nos-tik] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience.
2. a person who denies or doubts the possibility of ultimate knowledge in some area of study.
–adjective
3. of or pertaining to agnostics or agnosticism.
4. asserting the uncertainty of all claims to knowledge.

Words change meaning over time. Take the word 'sinister' for example. Nowadays it means evil, but way back when it was Latin for 'left-handed'.


But uh, hey, maybe you're right. Then again, seeing as I'm agnostic, I deny your knowledge.

 

[Cool man]

Scarecrow, that: "Intuitive apprehension of spiritual truths, an esoteric form of knowledge sought by the Gnostics", is by the Gnostics. By the damn Gnostics; doesn't have anything to do with the actual word "gnosis". And how do you for that matter deny my knowledge? That doesn't make sense at all.

And I apologise for my religious bashing. I realized that after the making.

And Guardian Soul - okay, logic religion, right. A logic way of life? I don't think so.

 

[shrekdog]

I don't know how you're refuting what I said, but I'll say it again, a bit simpler this time.

In this modern day and age, agnosticism, or at least the agnosticism I adopt, is the belief that the certain knowledge of the existence of any god, deity, or higher power, is ultimately unknowable. Regardless of what the word may have meant in ancient Greek, or whatever it may translate to in any other language, that's what it means here and now.

Besides, the meaning of the word doesn't change what I believe. You could call it hooplah and I'd still believe it.

And uh,

And how do you for that matter deny my knowledge? That doesn't make sense at all.

I was being clever, but you didn't get it.

Agnosticism is the denial of all knowledge. It's in the name: "a", as in "without" or "taken away" + "gnosis" as greek for "knowledge".

You know, denial of knowledge, I deny your knowledge, etc, etc..

 

[Wehrmacht]

In this modern day and age, agnosticism, or at least the agnosticism I adopt, is the belief that the certain knowledge of the existence of any god, deity, or higher power, is ultimately unknowable. Regardless of what the word may have meant in ancient Greek, or whatever it may translate to in any other language, that's what it means here and now..

This is what I believe in as well.

And uh, cool man, I'm not sure you are aware of this, but there IS such a thing as an agnostic atheist.

If you wanted to find the truth about the origins of the universe and whatnot, I believe you should first admit you don't know much about it, or anything at all. It's just honesty.

 

[Hollow Bastion]

Thanks for pointing out something most of us already know, but you fail to realize that the term "agnosticism" is generally used in terms of religion nowadays.

As such, an "agnostic" is someone who denies absolute knowledge (for some, only for the time being) regarding the existence of a deity

 

[Garth]

Seriously, you agnostics. Isn't your belief so fantastically humiliating? To admit you're absolutely clueless about everything? What do you really have to live for if you can't know any meaning of it? Becuase that just almost about blends nihilism and agnosticism into one singular "belief"!

Enlighten me please. Your lives seem so utterly worthless to me through this.

Since when was there knowledge behind religion? In the end, everyone is "clueless about everything." Regardless of one's religion, no one knows what's truly the cause of life (God, not God, etc.). It seems logical, actually, and rather bold, to come out and say, "I don't know." I always thought that religion was powered by faith, not fact.

The only thing more worthless than this thread is the lack of open-mindedness behind its origin.

 

[KingBlade]

I nowadays read on many a forums people who, at the expense of atheism, convert their beliefs to agnosticism because they find atheism to be illogical. As it also turns out, most of these people have no shit-idea as to what the hell agnosticism is anyway.

I am agnostic and I know what it mean:

Agnostic - The belief that knowledge is limited or absolute knowledge can not exist/reached.

That just killed your argument.

Seriously, you agnostics. Isn't your belief so fantastically humiliating? To admit you're absolutely clueless about everything? What do you really have to live for if you can't know any meaning of it? Becuase that just almost about blends nihilism and agnosticism into one singular "belief"!

We're not clueless we, just deny that certain things can not be completely known.

 

[Thelonepickle]

D:

Can I just say, the 's' on your "many a forums" is redundant? D: IT SHOULDN'T BE THERE.

You're making friends all over the place. Are you angry because you're losing atheists or something? That's so ridiculous. You're making a fool out of yourself!

How in the world did you get SO UNBELIEVABLY ANGRY that you have to go onto a children's videogame's forum and make a thread about how worthless some people are, in your sight? Couldn't you just... Punch a baby or something?

Jeez.

 

[Vayne Mechanics]

That ain't cool, Cool Man. Don't be hatin' on my religion.

 

[Cool man]

Okay, I admit my defeat. You all win. Religious bashing is out of place here anyway apparently. And my definition of religion is also apparently wildly different from the one you're all adopting. And while that really should not be, it isn't your fault, so I won't begin that discussion. (especially not with someone who uses the fact that we're in a subforum for religious, intel-discussion as an argument as to why I shouldn't discuss... religious, intel-matters)

And uh,


I was being clever, but you didn't get it.



You know, denial of knowledge, I deny your knowledge, etc, etc..

Okay. Ha ha. That's... very clever of you.

 

[Pelafina]

And my definition of religion is also appearently wildly different from the one you're all adopting. And while that really should not be, it isn't your fault, so I won't begin that discussion.

It sounds like you're pitying us and our apparent inability to understand your point.

We're just as right as you are, if not more.

 

[Tobuoi]

The term "agnosticism" is somewhat vague, as is appropriate for its meaning. However, the term "atheist" is vague, as well. All it means to be an atheist is that you don't believe in a god(s).

1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

1. a. Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods. b. The doctrine that there is no God or gods.

"Atheism, as an explicit position, either affirms the nonexistence of gods[1] or rejects theism.[2]"

I, personally, do not believe in God, but to call myself an atheist really wouldn't be all that different from calling myself an agnostic, because neither of them have a very clear set of beliefs, which is part of what makes them such a seperate category of "religion," or lack thereof. So sure, my disbelief in God makes me an atheist, but my lack of understanding of the world's unsolved mysteries makes me an agnostic. And I really don't believe that we'll ever completely understand life, if for no other reason than we'll go extinct before then. That's why I've been rather reluctant to calling myself either an atheist or an agnostic...oh, and it has NOTHING to do any sort of potential regret or, "Oh, I'll just call myself an agnostic, JUST IN CASE there turns out to be a God." Nothing like that. Just wanted to throw that out before/if I'm warranted with such an accusation.

Anyways, that's what I've found to be as close to the "truth" in my understanding, during my sixteen years of existence.

 

[Phoenix]

lulz word meanings totally never change over time

And my definition of religion is also appearently wildly different from the one you're all adopting. And while that really should not be, it isn't your fault, so I won't begin that discussion.

re·li·gion Audio Help /rɪˈlɪdʒən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ri-lij-uhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.


Your move, angry man : <

 

[Cool man]

Oh come on, Phoenix. Academics aren't religious. Therefore, they would never state what religion means to one religious: truth. (as it is, religions needs their own academia)

Religion = truth. Right? What is it else?

 

[SunfallE]

Enlighten me please. Your lives seem so utterly worthless to me through this.

I make no claims to the sentiment or belief behind the word Agnosticism, however, I do find it amusing that you're argument is based on nothing more than the semantics of the word instead of the intent behind what is being said when one claims to follow a particular belief. In this case Agnosticism.

To put it simply:

1. The doctrine that certainty about first principles or absolute truth is unattainable and that only perceptual phenomena are objects of exact knowledge.

2. The belief that there can be no proof either that God exists or that God does not exist.​

Or

1. a religious orientation of doubt; a denial of ultimate knowledge of the existence of God; "agnosticism holds that you can neither prove nor disprove God's existence"

2. the disbelief in any claims of ultimate knowledge​

Usually the idea behind trying to understand someone's belief is attempting to see the picture, in this case a disbelief in any CLAIMS of ultimate knowledge. The literal meaning of the word is irrelevant since that doesn't change what people take it to mean. Nitpicking them apart in that manner only makes you look silly. ^_~

 

[Phoenix]

Oh come on, Phoenix. Academics aren't religious. Therefore, they would never state what religion means to one religious: truth. (as it is, religions needs their own academia)

Religion = truth. Right? What is it else?

Last I checked, definitions aren't supposed to be based on a subjective point of view. What a religion means to someone is irrelevant; a religion is:

re·li·gion Audio Help /rɪˈlɪdʒən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ri-lij-uhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

Furthermore, truth is truth. Religion by definition cannot mean truth because there are so many (religions). There's no such thing as different truths for different people; there is one truth, and people either have it or don't.

 

[Forever Atlas]

Well, I am not agnostic, but I do feel that it isnt right what the OP said. Not only were you judging an idea but bashing it because of your personal (inaccurate) views it. I dont agree with Agnostics, but I do respect that they have made a choice. Of course not everyone is going to respect everyone else's set of ideas or beliefs.... unfortunately thats the way things are. But to attack an idea especially when you have a warped view, is even more so wrong.

 

[Cool man]

Furthermore, truth is truth. Religion by definition cannot mean truth because there are so many (religions). There's no such thing as different truths for different people; there is one truth, and people either have it or don't.

And there retardation came. That's where this discussion goes to hell and that's why I didn't want to discuss it because it's futile. You hold that there is something of an absolutistic truth; I do not. I hold a view of a subjectivistic truth: I am what they call an existentialist. It's all only different doctrines of philosophy.

I personally do not see a need of an absolutistic truth since that would probably only result in me wanting to change it (YES O REBELLIC ME), which then later would result in me living my life depressed because LAIF IS SO UNFAIR. I create my own truth, based upon what I find logic, enjoyable, nice, whatever. I'm trying to live my life here. No one else is going to live it. Why would it ever need to fit anyone else's ideals? (so on a sidenote Forever Atlas, my personal views are not inaccurate. Appearently, they are to you, but that's your personal view)

And that's where Agnostics fail as well, I suppose. Living in a world where the ultimate meanings are for no one to ever find out or know? That also seems highly futile.

Basically I'm trying to avoid nihilism, which I loathe.