AFTER KH3?



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jahob000

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With me being only a casual fan and not obsessed with the series, I do think it should end at 3. One thing that makes a story great is that they end. It's a sad thing to see but it's something that has to happen. That's when the fans can continue the stories in their own minds making it that much more precious.

When Nomura does come up with something after KH3, I'll probably still play it to check it out but probably not with the same level of excitement as the original series. Kingdom Hearts was already a novel concept. A Japanese style mixed with Disney was a strange combo but worked very well. Also it wasn't just whatever was labeled "Disney". The content they pulled from already had time under their belt. Disney Titles from the 50's, 60's, 70's 80's and the 90's.

There are some fans that like Kingdom Hearts I the best because slowly after that, Disney characters became less of a blend and more of just a tag along (which I don't agree completely). There's only so much Disney you can pull from and eventually they will have to start pulling from bottom of the barrel, constantly rehashing already used Disney characters or relying only on whatever current new Disney content is around in the future.

I guess what I'm saying is, is that Non Disney characters will take over the story and slowly cause Disney to be a less integral part of it, only appearing in future games because "Disney is supposed to be in the games" I'm not saying that's a bad thing. Because even if Disney played a super small roll in the beginning of the series, it still would have been great because Kingdom Hearts could easily be it's own thing. I've heard a few people say that the series will get so dramatic that Disney won't "fit" in the games anymore because it will seem silly.

Ok, I'm done babbling lol. What do you guys think? Do you think it will be that grim? Better? Opinions?
 

Zettaflare

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Disney or Square have very little reason to end the series after KH3. Especially since the game is putting the series back on the spotlight for the first time in years. There's still plenty of old and new Disney films to use and best of all there will be a clean slate after Xehanort's defeat.

Though I'm not sure how invested I will be personally.
 
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Nukara

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Judging by the fanatic writings which in most cases are fanfiction about school and yaoi ,fans are not too interested in thinking in the mind.
 

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Not everything is meant to be for the old guard forever. KH3 is putting KH back on the forefront of people’s minds, so I don’t imagine Disney will let Nomura stop at KH3. Instead they will use this to get younger audiences into the series.

From that point, I think it would be smart to expand on KH with other media forms. Perhaps a new phone game that is a bit more user-friendly and has a wider appeal to children. A TV show or animated shorts would be great (but that brings in the old age question of how they would even approach a show? Shorts are easier to do because they wouldn’t be confined to telling a long-running narrative)

KH also needs really good merchandising. None of this piss poor quality stuff that has been licensed out. Disney has some of the greatest graphic designers and product designers in the world. Square Enix can keep making high-end merchandise but they need to rewrite their confusing contract to let Disney make merchandise in-house. The reason we initially saw all of the low-quality licenses stuff early on was because there was probably a loophole in the contract that didn’t say Disney couldn’t license out stuff.

The problem is that any company interested in the KH license has to buy the license in-bulk with Disney’s other properties and that is an expensive license. We are slowly seeing more prolific brands taking on KH because they finally have a game to make KH merchandise for and there is enough hype around KH3 to make it. Following KH3, we will see more of it but Disney really needs to get on top of it by getting that contract adjusted ASAP as well because Nomura is a picky grump and should not be the reason we can’t get a good looking KH shirt.

/rant

ANYWAYS. KH3 should not be an end for the series. I think it should be a new beginning, though. A brand new saga without the baggage of the Dark Seeker Saga. Still have Sora, Kairi and Riku, throw in a popular character or a few, introduce a small amount of new characters that serve as support and as the antagonist(s), but keep the amount low and manageable.

Every following title rotates characters in and out, but never in a way that feels like they were underutilized or one-note. Keep the plot as intriguing but simplistic as possible. Refine what worked in the series before and cut out everything that didn’t.

Either have standalone games or trilogy titles. No 8+ game sagas.

Have a competitive spin-off so everybody can play as their favs again in one game. Rhythm game at the most. Don’t overbloat with nonsense games.

(Part of me wants an arena or battle royale type-game but I don’t think the genre has space for more of them)

Judging by the fanatic writings which in most cases are fanfiction about school and yaoi ,fans are not too interested in thinking in the mind.
Seriously what pockets of the internet are you exploring that make you focus on school AUs and yaoi fic as your basis of what represents swaths of the fanbase? It’s like you are looking through a telescope to the fanbase ten years ago or something.

And what does any of that have to do with wanting KH to continue/not continue?
 

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if its 2018 and i’m reading the word yaoi, something is fucked in the mainframe and elon has to download us new firmware ASAP.

its nomura’s wish that kh3 goes on for decades and decades after him so i feel it will. its been niche for so long and just exploded into the mainstream. the fact that its a crossover property that blends multiple cultures lends to it’s longevity favorably. when kh forst released, there was barely an action rpg on the market and now the genre is absolutely flooded- in a generation of multicultural adults who love disney, overblown superhero films and fast paced rpg games, where do you think kh stands?

i guarantee all of yous that if our way of life does not cease, our kids will be playing kingdom hearts battle royale on their Samsung Just-As-Good-As-Apple-Almost Gen 3. it might not have that crazy dude we all love at the helm, but everyone’s here because they appreciate a good disney film. walt’s been dead before you were born.
 

DarkosOverlord

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KH also needs really good merchandising. None of this piss poor quality stuff that has been licensed out. Disney has some of the greatest graphic designers and product designers in the world. Square Enix can keep making high-end merchandise but they need to rewrite their confusing contract to let Disney make merchandise in-house. The reason we initially saw all of the low-quality licenses stuff early on was because there was probably a loophole in the contract that didn’t say Disney couldn’t license out stuff.

The problem is that any company interested in the KH license has to buy the license in-bulk with Disney’s other properties and that is an expensive license. We are slowly seeing more prolific brands taking on KH because they finally have a game to make KH merchandise for and there is enough hype around KH3 to make it. Following KH3, we will see more of it but Disney really needs to get on top of it by getting that contract adjusted ASAP as well because Nomura is a picky grump and should not be the reason we can’t get a good looking KH shirt.
Speech!
That's one thing that has always bugged me. There's so much potential in accessible KH merch and it's all going down the drain with wedding jewelry and putting the same 6-7 stained glass images on the most eccentric stuff.
Hope one day Disney'll get that right. Just actually good and wearable outside shirts alone would be great.

Also, wasn't aware Nomura had some part in this. Did he block some merch or something?


ANYWAYS. KH3 should not be an end for the series. I think it should be a new beginning, though. A brand new saga without the baggage of the Dark Seeker Saga. Still have Sora, Kairi and Riku, throw in a popular character or a few, introduce a small amount of new characters that serve as support and as the antagonist(s), but keep the amount low and manageable.

Every following title rotates characters in and out, but never in a way that feels like they were underutilized or one-note. Keep the plot as intriguing but simplistic as possible. Refine what worked in the series before and cut out everything that didn’t.

Either have standalone games or trilogy titles. No 8+ game sagas.

Have a competitive spin-off so everybody can play as their favs again in one game. Rhythm game at the most. Don’t overbloat with nonsense games.

(Part of me wants an arena or battle royale type-game but I don’t think the genre has space for more of them)
I truly hope the next chapter will be a new beginning, also in the way you described. Nomura is a different man than the one he was 15 years ago, and maybe now that he has some more experience under his belt and a potentially clean slate he can adopt more conventional means and less tentative stuff that'll end up in a dumpster fire of a development partway in.
I know my example is in a very, very smaller scale, but I write stories for a hobby. I too went through some phases when I wanted to expand on a story, to pick up a new branch of the narrative and similar cases, so I can relate with some mental trails he might've been through.
Opposite to what some might think given past comments, I don't hate the guy. I just think he was woefully inexperienced for the journey ahead.

About the possible side game, I still want an actual KH multiplayer. I basically want Days' multiplayer, BbS' online co-op missions, and X's customizable avatar. A game just of that, no lore strings attached (I mean, I wouldn't say no to a small storyline as well).
Other than that, the competitive spin-off doesn't sound bad, and I know the (brief) Musou trend is kinda going away, but that also wouldn't be a terrible idea imo.
Musou Keyblade War.
 

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Speech!
That's one thing that has always bugged me. There's so much potential in accessible KH merch and it's all going down the drain with wedding jewelry and putting the same 6-7 stained glass images on the most eccentric stuff.
Hope one day Disney'll get that right. Just actually good and wearable outside shirts alone would be great.

Also, wasn't aware Nomura had some part in this. Did he block some merch or something?
It boils down to SE having the rights to merchandising. Because SE has the rights to it, it is really up to them on what they design and produce and considering how SE does not mass produce things, we know they won’t bother trying to push to get space in big brick and mortar retailers without it being special ordered by those retailers. Also because they create high-end products, the prices tend to push retailers away from giving them shelf space and it also pushes away potential customers. I’m speaking purely about western retailers btw.

I brought Nomura up because he has the final say in most KH-related things. Any merchandise getting made by SE is approved by him, which means we are limited by what he wants and if he wants it to be a rare thing or not like those really cool KH shirts he designed years ago or the really cool stuff they give out at events.

Since SE has the merchandise rights, Disney can only really license the rights out because that was clearly not included in the contract they made years ago. License holders can only work with what already exists, thus the endless iterations of the same things we’ve seen countless times over the years or really cheap products.

I truly hope the next chapter will be a new beginning, also in the way you described. Nomura is a different man than the one he was 15 years ago, and maybe now that he has some more experience under his belt and a potentially clean slate he can adopt more conventional means and less tentative stuff that'll end up in a dumpster fire of a development partway in.
I know my example is in a very, very smaller scale, but I write stories for a hobby. I too went through some phases when I wanted to expand on a story, to pick up a new branch of the narrative and similar cases, so I can relate with some mental trails he might've been through.
Opposite to what some might think given past comments, I don't hate the guy. I just think he was woefully inexperienced for the journey ahead.
Yes, he was definitely unprepared. KH was his directorial debut and also the first project he ever made on his own. He was also very young for a director when he took it on. It’s both amazing what he was able to accomplish but also a good warning about how to not approach story development XD

About the possible side game, I still want an actual KH multiplayer. I basically want Days' multiplayer, BbS' online co-op missions, and X's customizable avatar. A game just of that, no lore strings attached (I mean, I wouldn't say no to a small storyline as well).
Other than that, the competitive spin-off doesn't sound bad, and I know the (brief) Musou trend is kinda going away, but that also wouldn't be a terrible idea imo.
Musou Keyblade War.
Same on a MP game. My friend and I were talking about how cool it would be to have a game about the Keyblade War. A proper one. Or a proper game about the Foretellers.
 

Zettaflare

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More merch is a plus. Something I would like to see is novels set between the aftermath of KH3 and the start of the next saga. Have them focus on rescued characters such as Roxas, Xion, and TAV and how they deal with their new chances at life. And possibly with Isa and Vanitas if they survive.
 

DarkosOverlord

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It boils down to SE having the rights to merchandising. Because SE has the rights to it, it is really up to them on what they design and produce and considering how SE does not mass produce things, we know they won’t bother trying to push to get space in big brick and mortar retailers without it being special ordered by those retailers. Also because they create high-end products, the prices tend to push retailers away from giving them shelf space and it also pushes away potential customers. I’m speaking purely about western retailers btw.

I brought Nomura up because he has the final say in most KH-related things. Any merchandise getting made by SE is approved by him, which means we are limited by what he wants and if he wants it to be a rare thing or not like those really cool KH shirts he designed years ago or the really cool stuff they give out at events.

Since SE has the merchandise rights, Disney can only really license the rights out because that was clearly not included in the contract they made years ago. License holders can only work with what already exists, thus the endless iterations of the same things we’ve seen countless times over the years or really cheap products.
Oh, gotcha. It was wrong of me to generalize and point the finger at Disney.


Same on a MP game. My friend and I were talking about how cool it would be to have a game about the Keyblade War. A proper one. Or a proper game about the Foretellers.
Yep
Whatever'll happen from now on, I sincerely hope the X finale won't be treated as "well that's the Keyblade War!" and that's it
The finale overall was pretty good, but pls no. I need something... more.
 

jahob000

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I still disagree with what's been said (not in a negative mean sort of way :D) Just that I respectfully disagree. I'm not dooming the series to fail. Who Knows, I could be eating my words in the future because the next saga he creates could be great too. I don't want to get into the whole merchandising thing. Yes there's a whole market available but the last thing the series needs is to only exist to sell product.

I think that a lot of people (myself included) hold on to nostalgia or a good thing too much and will sometimes reject new things because they're clinging to the old. I'd much rather see the series end at KH3 and see Nomura try to create something fresh and new.

When I was younger, I didn't want things to end but then I would see the result of when my favorite anime or tv series kept going.

In any case, regardless of the series future state, when Kingdom Hearts III comes out and I beat the game, I will gladly give it a standing ovation...in my apartment...alone...pretending that there is a crowd of others joining me in the clap XD
 

Chaser

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Either have standalone games or trilogy titles. No 8+ game sagas.
I’d love some standalone games in the series, but with main games constantly being referred to as side games and unimportant, I fear that the revenue and sales for any standalone game won’t meet expectations due to a lack of sales.

I’m getting quite sick of playing AAA games that are nothing but sequel bait. Like God of War. It told a simple story about honouring a dead mother’s wish over one game, but everything outside of that story is boiled down to “wait for the next game or the one after”. Literally everything that happened was lacklustre and just a promise that the things you want to see and experience now would be coming in the next game, if you buy it. The witch in the Woods promising hell fire to rain down upon Kratos and his son.... but not now, in the next game. And the secret ending of “a few weeks later” with Thor turning up was just like..... seriously? We get it, the next game.

Uncharted: The Lost Legacy was a nice, self contained game but if a standalone KH game was made on that scale then it’d have like two Disney worlds, which I don’t think many people would want considering people are a bit miffed on the seven Disney worlds we currently know are playable.

So a standalone game would have to be big, like KH3, but then the budget would go up and I have no idea if the amount of gamers who buy KH3 would buy a standalone game. I know some would love a simple plot because they hate how ‘convoluted’ it is now, but that doesn’t exactly translate into a sale.
 

Nukara

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I mostly sit on the Archive Works and a bit on Fanfiction.net and most of the fan work is what I saw, AU that has nothing to do with the Kingdom hearts universe. The characters were simply given the names "Sora", "Riku", "Kairi", but in general they are often not even like originals. Because of what I principle was disappointed in Fanfiction in general. Very few works where the characters have canonical characters.
I mean that the fans are not too interested to think up stories on the topic "What will happen after Kingdom hearts 3" of such fan music I see very few on the forums. Basically those that I read on forums write fanfics about shipping relationships and here it does not matter which Sora / Kairi, Sora / Riku, Sora / Roxas and others.
Often those that I saw are in high demand for inventing a story within the Kingdom Kingdom universe need imagination and often the stories that go on the topic "Post-KH3" remain unfinished because people often have enough imagination. However, romantic works have always been in great demand in all fandom as well, for they do not need to be tried either as works on the canon of history.
I hope I explained how I could have thought for myself. I'm ill explaining it, but I tried as best I could.
 

jahob000

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I mostly sit on the Archive Works and a bit on Fanfiction.net and most of the fan work is what I saw, AU that has nothing to do with the Kingdom hearts universe. The characters were simply given the names "Sora", "Riku", "Kairi", but in general they are often not even like originals. Because of what I principle was disappointed in Fanfiction in general. Very few works where the characters have canonical characters.
I mean that the fans are not too interested to think up stories on the topic "What will happen after Kingdom hearts 3" of such fan music I see very few on the forums. Basically those that I read on forums write fanfics about shipping relationships and here it does not matter which Sora / Kairi, Sora / Riku, Sora / Roxas and others.
Often those that I saw are in high demand for inventing a story within the Kingdom Kingdom universe need imagination and often the stories that go on the topic "Post-KH3" remain unfinished because people often have enough imagination. However, romantic works have always been in great demand in all fandom as well, for they do not need to be tried either as works on the canon of history.
I hope I explained how I could have thought for myself. I'm ill explaining it, but I tried as best I could.
When I say for fans to "use their imagination", I don't mean that they have to come up with a new story on their own. What I'm saying is that a or story that leaves a reasonable amount of questions behind with the story being complete, allows the readers to speculate or wonder how they are doing after the story is over or what else could happen. However since it doesn't seem like a lot of people want to do that any more, we want everything answered so that there is no mystery in the story. Not to get off topic but look at Star Wars. Fans wanted to know what happened after the original films and they got it. Fans wanted to know what happened before and they got it. They made a Han Solo movie which was unnecessary.

The worst thing you can do for any story is over-defining a character. Leave at least a little mystery or speculation to the readers/viewers. That's my opinion anyway
 

Nazo

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Kingdom Hearts III, in my mind, IS going to be the end of the series "as we know it". KH3 will mark the end of the franchise as it has existed for the last 15+ years, but it will also begin a new phase. We already know there's going to be a new saga, but I think the way KH is handled will also change. We're already seeing it with Union Cross, and I bet future KH games will expand into different media as the Disney classics can only be mined so many times before they run out on content. So, after KH3, KH will continue to exist, but it will be in a new form and conform to the modern trends of the industry, which should come as a shock to no one.
 

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I think they should honestly just release the diddly-all KH4 experience in like 5 years with Marvel, Star Wars, The Simpsons and whatever other crazy properties they acquired as the worlds, with Roxas, Ven or a new original character as the protagonist (in an effort to not tarnish the Sora/Disney thing).

Like honestly, alleviate some of the deep bullshit this series has become; treat it like KH1 where it is resolved but the door is also open for a continuation, and then maybe KH5 could be a more normal experience releasing like 5 years after that with some of the left-out Disney worlds.
 
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I think they should honestly just release the diddly-all KH4 experience in like 5 years with Marvel, Star Wars, The Simpsons and whatever other crazy properties they acquired as the worlds, with Roxas, Ven or a new original character as the protagonist (in an effort to not tarnish the Sora/Disney thing).
Please no to Marvel, Star Wars and Fox-related in future KH games.

In my opinion I just don't understand why fans keep on DEMANDiNG and wanting for Marvel and Star Wars to appear in KH before/after their acquisitions from Disney cause not only are these films aren't Disney (cause they were acquired recently Marvel - 2009; Star Wars - 2012), but the films have so Many locations from the films that I just don't see them putting in multiple different worlds, particularly Star Wars. Realistically I see elements of Marvel and/or Star Wars appear as either items or easter eggs but as Nomura and the people at Square Enix say they aren't like Disney and the Disney/Pixar properties and on top of that, it requires getting a lot of permission. Not to mention if a Star Wars based world appears that requires getting permission and talks with the people at Lucasfilm to not affect the Star Wars canon, regardless if the plot is original. Also, isn't Kingdom Hearts clearly inspired by Star Wars?

Kingdom Hearts III, in my mind, IS going to be the end of the series "as we know it". KH3 will mark the end of the franchise as it has existed for the last 15+ years, but it will also begin a new phase. We already know there's going to be a new saga, but I think the way KH is handled will also change. We're already seeing it with Union Cross, and I bet future KH games will expand into different media as the Disney classics can only be mined so many times before they run out on content. So, after KH3, KH will continue to exist, but it will be in a new form and conform to the modern trends of the industry, which should come as a shock to no one.
Kingdom Hearts III is the final game of the Dark Seeker Saga.
 
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I'd love a nice hiatus after KH3. Everyone is exhausted. Fans, developers, haters. We're all so damn tired. If KH only lives in a cheap mobile game for a few years, that's fine. KH3 looks like one of the most massive and ambitious games ever made. Trying to make something after KH3 won't be easy or necessary.
 

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Please no to Marvel, Star Wars and Fox-related in future KH games.

In my opinion I just don't understand why fans keep on DEMANDiNG and wanting for Marvel and Star Wars to appear in KH before/after their acquisitions from Disney cause not only are these films aren't Disney (cause they were acquired recently Marvel - 2009; Star Wars - 2012), but the films have so Many locations from the films that I just don't see them putting in multiple different worlds, particularly Star Wars. Realistically I see elements of Marvel and/or Star Wars appear as either items or easter eggs but as Nomura and the people at Square Enix say they aren't like Disney and the Disney/Pixar properties and on top of that, it requires getting a lot of permission. Not to mention if a Star Wars based world appears that requires getting permission and talks with the people at Lucasfilm to not affect the Star Wars canon, regardless if the plot is original. Also, isn't Kingdom Hearts clearly inspired by Star Wars?


Kingdom Hearts III is the final game of the Dark Seeker Saga.
I'm a huge proponent of the Square + original Disney thing as well for KH3, but I kinda feel like after this entry they may have gone as far as they can with this formula, so literally you could go with something in the complete opposite direction, which is why I suggested a new character visiting all these newly-acquired properties... like it's a good way to please those fans and not feel like you're damaging the sanctity of the series.

Shit, I would love to run around Springfield with Homer & Bart, keyblade in hand; some people might think that's stupid, but Simpsons Hit & Run and even the hub of the Simpsons Game were awesome. I would also love if Great Muppet Caper was a world.

I mean, I'm saying all this and we don't know a third of what KH3 holds for us.

On a completely distant tangent, I wish Nintendo and Star Wars/Lucas Films would do a Kingdom Hearts-esque mashup.
 

Rodin

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It be cool to see Nomura go do another IP after KH3. Him taking a break could be a boon for the series later on.

After Xehanort, I'm guessing the Master of Master take center stage and thats ok. I rather not have another long build up tho. Our current problem is arc fatigue so maybe a 2 game saga and a bunch of stand-alone plots would be more appealing.

Im not sure about Sora staying as the lead as i lost interest in him a while ago. A new lead would be ideal but i get how it could backfire. DMC4 tried to introduce a new lead character but Nero just felt Dante-lite. So maybe using other characters like VenTerraAqua would be a better compromise?

I dont think KH should get rid of the Disney worlds because that has more wider appeal and the key to its success. The mix of Disney and the Original lore was what made KH1 popular and we should return to that.

Marvel would be a good replacenent for the FF characters. They are more malleable than Star wars so you could reimagine them to fit an existing world.
 
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