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About Vanitas and Ventus... (Fun discussion)



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vaderskywalker

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Why didn't Ven's heart join with Sora again after Vanitas died at the keyblade graveyard? when it happened in BBS, Ven's heart had left and he fell into a coma, so why didn't the same happen here, what are your thoughts?
 

Chie

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Vanitas was one of the time traveling hearts. When he was defeated he was sent back in time to BBS. Therefore he doesn't have any bearing on present day Ven's heart.
 

SweetYetSalty

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Vanitas was one of the time traveling hearts. When he was defeated he was sent back in time to BBS. Therefore he doesn't have any bearing on present day Ven's heart.
Of course the games don't make that clear before Re:Mind. Because past Vanitas still tries to get present day Ventus to merge with him anyway, regardless of time. And the conflicting info of using the Monstropolis screams and Unversed to bring him back to life contradicts the Replica info we would get later and having to merge the two lore's together. This should have been explained from the get go.
 
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Chie

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Monstropolis is very confusing, yeah. Vanitas seems to be straight-up wrong in that scene (or there's a Two Vanitas conspiracy!!!!)
 

MATGSY

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Crack theory: Vanitas stole the scream tanks to fuel his resurrection post-KH3. There's still unverse around (Him getting hit literally creates more) and they're extensions of his being. And then there's the Vanitas Remnant. Now the VR that appeared in BBS may have canonically been destroyed, but a new one could have been created by his defeat in KH3.

So the unverse blast the VR with scream energy and then merged with it to create a revived Vanitas.

Theory 2: Ventus and Vanitas regrew the missing halves of their hearts separately from one another. After all it's been established grew hearts from nothing so why couldn't half a heart grow to a full one then? As such they both became full beings a while ago.
 

Ventuswayfinder

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Why didn't Ven's heart join with Sora again after Vanitas died at the keyblade graveyard? when it happened in BBS, Ven's heart had left and he fell into a coma, so why didn't the same happen here, what are your thoughts?

Are you referring to when Ventus fell into a coma after Xehanort removed a piece of his heart and sent him to Destiny Islands to die “in peace”, or when he fell into a coma again after the final battle with Vanitas?

If it is the first one: After Xehanort extracted Ven's heart (from which Vanitas took too much of), Vanitas was perfectly fine, whereas Ventus was left to die. Thankfully, newborn Sora saved him.

“But Vanitas took too much of Ventus's heart, and from that fracture, I could see the last of Ventus's light was slipping away.”— Xehanort’s report 10


But, if it is the latter: Ven nearly died, not because Vanitas died, but because of the destruction of the X-blade damaged his heart.


“The χ-blade is made of your heart, too, idiot. If you destroy it, your heart will vanish forever” — Vanitas

In other words, Ventus and Vanitas are completely independent from one another. They were once whole, but no longer are.

If Ventus dies, it has no effect on Vanitas, and if Vanitas dies, it has no effect on Ventus.
 

vaderskywalker

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Are you referring to when Ventus fell into a coma after Xehanort removed a piece of his heart and sent him to Destiny Islands to die “in peace”, or when he fell into a coma again after the final battle with Vanitas?

If it is the first one: After Xehanort extracted Ven's heart (from which Vanitas took too much of), Vanitas was perfectly fine, whereas Ventus was left to die. Thankfully, newborn Sora saved him.

“But Vanitas took too much of Ventus's heart, and from that fracture, I could see the last of Ventus's light was slipping away.”— Xehanort’s report 10


But, if it is the latter: Ven nearly died, not because Vanitas died, but because of the destruction of the X-blade damaged his heart.


“The χ-blade is made of your heart, too, idiot. If you destroy it, your heart will vanish forever” — Vanitas

In other words, Ventus and Vanitas are completely independent from one another. They were once whole, but no longer are.

If Ventus dies, it has no effect on Vanitas, and if Vanitas dies, it has no effect on Ventus.
Yeah, I was referring to the battle in the keyblade graveyard, just as Aqua destroys the X-blade (I assume that would time frame anyway, because it's happening in their hearts or minds, it's hard to tell), and no offence meant, but I thought it was kind of obvious what I was referring to.
 
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vaderskywalker

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Vanitas was one of the time traveling hearts. When he was defeated he was sent back in time to BBS. Therefore he doesn't have any bearing on present day Ven's heart.

Of course the games don't make that clear before Re:Mind. Because past Vanitas still tries to get present day Ventus to merge with him anyway, regardless of time. And the conflicting info of using the Monstropolis screams and Unversed to bring him back to life contradicts the Replica info we would get later and having to merge the two lore's together. This should have been explained from the get go.

Monstropolis is very confusing, yeah. Vanitas seems to be straight-up wrong in that scene (or there's a Two Vanitas conspiracy!!!!)
Yeah, about that, there's a, Well, I like to call them deleted scenes, seems simple that way, and in one of the deleted scenes, after Axel dies, Xemnas looks at one of the throne's and say's "perhaps he will soon awaken" so it would make sense for him to be refferring to Ventus, and by extension Vanitas, but, what your saying makes it sound like they retconned it, sorry for the late reply, had to think about it before I responded.
 

Ventuswayfinder

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Of course the games don't make that clear before Re:Mind. Because past Vanitas still tries to get present day Ventus to merge with him anyway, regardless of time. And the conflicting info of using the Monstropolis screams and Unversed to bring him back to life contradicts the Replica info we would get later and having to merge the two lore's together. This should have been explained from the get go.

I get that KH3 Vanilla didn't make it clear whether Vanitas was a time traveler or not, but I don't understand how using the kids' negativity to reconstruct his heart contradicts the replica information? Do you mind explaining?



Vanitas needed a new vessel because his body had been completely destroyed, and he also needed his heart to be rebuild because it had been damaged. I mean, all the time travelers needed a vessel (the replicas), but Vanitas was in a different situation because he was basically a ghost anyway *shrug*



That only begs the question of why YX plucked out a version of Vanitas when his heart was damaged from the X-blade destruction/post death, rather than plucking out a version of Vanitas where he was strong and his heart was still intact. That is the only thing that doesn't make any sense at all.

Obviously, Monstropolis had to be incorporated into the plot, but making Vanitas a time traveler was just stupid. It could have been the present-day Vanitas instead.

I don't see any contradiction, just poor execution.
 

Chie

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That only begs the question of why YX plucked out a version of Vanitas when his heart was damaged from the X-blade destruction/post death, rather than plucking out a version of Vanitas where he was strong and his heart was still intact. That is the only thing that doesn't make any sense at all.
I don't think taking a version of Vanitas "post-death" is a thing that Xehanort could or did do. The only reason one would think this would be to reconcile the Monstropolis scenes to make them not a contradiction, but that would be the only indication, since the whole point of the rest of the time displaced Xehanorts is that they were taken before they were defeated, which is the loophole that allows them to come back at all.
 

Ansould93

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Why didn't Ven's heart join with Sora again after Vanitas died at the keyblade graveyard? when it happened in BBS, Ven's heart had left and he fell into a coma, so why didn't the same happen here, what are your thoughts?
In Kingdom Hearts III, after the defeat of Vanitas, Ven's heart did not rejoin with Sora immediately because Ven's heart had already started to make its way back to his own body. This is because during the events of Birth By Sleep, Ven's heart was damaged and had to be placed in a safe location until his body could recover. In the time since then, Ven's heart had started to slowly rebuild his body on its own.
 

KudoTsurugi

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Yeah, about that, there's a, Well, I like to call them deleted scenes, seems simple that way, and in one of the deleted scenes, after Axel dies, Xemnas looks at one of the throne's and say's "perhaps he will soon awaken" so it would make sense for him to be refferring to Ventus, and by extension Vanitas, but, what your saying makes it sound like they retconned it, sorry for the late reply, had to think about it before I responded.
That’s a scene in KH2 Final Mix, yeah? I wouldn’t call it a deleted scene, since it was put in what was essentially an Extended Edition of KH2. While there were hints of the BBS characters in some of those new scenes, I think Xemnas was referring to Roxas in that particular scene. He was a member of Organization XIII up until the events of KH2, Axel was his best friend, and shortly after that scene he has his confrontation with Sora from within his heart. And while all the thrones looks the same aside from height, the immediat implication is that he’s looking at Roxas’ throne
 

vaderskywalker

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That’s a scene in KH2 Final Mix, yeah? I wouldn’t call it a deleted scene, since it was put in what was essentially an Extended Edition of KH2. While there were hints of the BBS characters in some of those new scenes, I think Xemnas was referring to Roxas in that particular scene. He was a member of Organization XIII up until the events of KH2, Axel was his best friend, and shortly after that scene he has his confrontation with Sora from within his heart. And while all the thrones looks the same aside from height, the immediat implication is that he’s looking at Roxas’ throne
Yeah, but I was thinking he was planning to give it to Vanitas.
 
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