About the 13 Darkness's, (x era ) (theory)

[vaderskywalker]

Going off the theory that Vanitas is one of the Darkness's, from way back in the age of fairy tales, and that was given his own body, would it be possible for Sora and the other's to do the same thing Xehanort did (Without the brutality of course)and remove the Darkness's from the foretellers, because I don't feel like they deserve to die, they feel like good people who just trusted the wrong guy, (Barring Luxu of course, because he's done some messed up things too, but I'm keeping an opened mind about him for the being.), and I feel like they can be redeemed, what are your thoughts?

 

[KHRULER]

I still question if Vanitas is the same as one of the Darknesses. I think maybe:

1. He is one of the Darknesses.
2. Master Xehanort extracted Ventus' own darkness and the true Darkness laid hidden (this would open several other questions though).
3. Vanitas is just a combination of both "darknesses" in question.


Vanitas strikes me as too nonchalant about the original Darkness' true goals (to spread darkness). All he wanted to do in BBS was fight Ventus and all he wanted to do in KH3 was...fight Ventus...and see the GoL perish I suppose and maybe see the X-blade + Kingdom Hearts. But spread darkness? Hasn't mentioned it once I believe. Moreover in Remind, we saw a dark beings' form Ventus' heart that called itself "Darkness" so I believe it to be the "Darkness" from the age of fairytales (which also looked nothing like Vanitas). Thus I don't think it's #1.

Let's just assume Master Xehanort accomplished #3 from above. The Lost Masters' goals are to stop the Darkness, seemingly by any means necessary. If the Darknesses are extracted from the Foretellers, they are free to roam. KH Union Cross or whichever suggested Darknesses can't be defeated by any old weapon (including Keyblades). So this would go against the Lost Masters' goals and also cause trouble for both the protagonists and the Foretellers as well (powerful Darknesses are now just running around). This would also make sense why Vanitas wouldn't have been permanently defeated, he just merely rejoined with Ventus...which if true leads to a question I have about a certain depiction in KH3....

 

[Dandelion]

Going off the theory that Vanitas is one of the Darkness's, from way back in the age of fairy tales, and that was given his own body, would it be possible for Sora and the other's to do the same thing Xehanort did (Without the brutality of course)and remove the Darkness's from the foretellers, because I don't feel like they deserve to die, they feel like good people who just trusted the wrong guy, (Barring Luxu of course, because he's done some messed up things too, but I'm keeping an opened mind about him for the being.), and I feel like they can be redeemed, what are your thoughts?

Anything is possible, but from what we saw in UX, The Master says he has a plan to defeat the Darkness without sacrificing the Foretellers. So, where he's going with this may not be far from what you're suggesting. Though, personally, I suspect that the foretellers will be struck down so that they can be reborn or take over another vessel.

 

[vaderskywalker]

Let's just assume Master Xehanort accomplished #3 from above. The Lost Masters' goals are to stop the Darkness, seemingly by any means necessary. If the Darknesses are extracted from the Foretellers, they are free to roam. KH Union Cross or whichever suggested Darknesses can't be defeated by any old weapon (including Keyblades). So this would go against the Lost Masters' goals and also cause trouble for both the protagonists and the Foretellers as well (powerful Darknesses are now just running around).

Ah, but that's my point, Vanitas, if it is true that he was one of the darkness's. he gained a physical form that could be destroyed, so it is possible to do that for the foretellers, and he says something quite interesting to Ven in remind, something about him and Ventus being separate beings long before Xehanort split them, so it is possible.

Anything is possible, but from what we saw in UX, The Master says he has a plan to defeat the Darkness without sacrificing the Foretellers. So, where he's going with this may not be far from what you're suggesting. Though, personally, I suspect that the foretellers will be struck down so that they can be reborn or take over another vessel.

I hope not, like I said, they were trying to do the right thing, they just went about it the wrong way, everyone deserves a second chance, Ventus got one, so it's only right that they do too.

 

[KHRULER]

Ah, but that's my point, Vanitas, if it is true that he was one of the darkness's. he gained a physical form that could be destroyed, so it is possible to do that for the foretellers, and he says something quite interesting to Ven in remind, something about him and Ventus being separate beings long before Xehanort split them, so it is possible.

But was Vanitas destroyed? Vanitas was manifested in some "physical" form but Ventus and Vanitas recombine in BBS' Keyblade Graveyard to become what is nicknamed Venitas and this is where he fights Aqua and Mickey.

Meanwhile, Ventus and Vanitas seem to battle inside Ven's heart/body. Aqua was fighting Ventus' body and Ventus was fighting Vanitas inside his body. So what physical form could have been destroyed? It doesn't happen since it appears they merge. I don't believe Vanitas was ever destroyed. Ventus just won and Vanitas returned to Ventus. This also seems to happen when Ven is in the age of fairytales. Ven references something along the lines in Remind by telling Vanitas "You're coming home too." Where else is home but inside Ventus?

I'm also skeptical of Vanitas' comment you referenced if he means literally or symbolically/figuratively distinct. Or it could just mean that Vanitas is a combination of both the Darkness and Ven's darkness. Still doesn't seem like Vanitas was permanently destroyed though.

ETA: Also if Vanitas were destroyed and he was a Darkness, then Sora wouldn't have encountered a Darkness when he dived into Ven's heart during Remind.

 

[vaderskywalker]

But was Vanitas destroyed? Vanitas was manifested in some "physical" form but Ventus and Vanitas recombine in BBS' Keyblade Graveyard to become what is nicknamed Venitas and this is where he fights Aqua and Mickey.

Meanwhile, Ventus and Vanitas seem to battle inside Ven's heart/body. Aqua was fighting Ventus' body and Ventus was fighting Vanitas inside his body. So what physical form could have been destroyed? It doesn't happen since it appears they merge. I don't believe Vanitas was ever destroyed. Ventus just won and Vanitas returned to Ventus. This also seems to happen when Ven is in the age of fairytales. Ven references something along the lines in Remind by telling Vanitas "You're coming home too." Where else is home but inside Ventus?

I'm also skeptical of Vanitas' comment you referenced if he means literally or symbolically/figuratively distinct. Or it could just mean that Vanitas is a combination of both the Darkness and Ven's darkness. Still doesn't seem like Vanitas was permanently destroyed though.

ETA: Also if Vanitas were destroyed and he was a Darkness, then Sora wouldn't have encountered a Darkness when he dived into Ven's heart during Remind.

Well, I never said he was destroyed, I just said he had a body that could be destroyed, it's possible he could come back later, but for now let's say he was rejoined with Ventus, that means the Darkness is back with him too, and there is evidence of it in remind, when Sora is inside Ven's heart.

 

[Mexican Sora]

But was Vanitas destroyed? Vanitas was manifested in some "physical" form but Ventus and Vanitas recombine in BBS' Keyblade Graveyard to become what is nicknamed Venitas and this is where he fights Aqua and Mickey.

Meanwhile, Ventus and Vanitas seem to battle inside Ven's heart/body. Aqua was fighting Ventus' body and Ventus was fighting Vanitas inside his body. So what physical form could have been destroyed? It doesn't happen since it appears they merge. I don't believe Vanitas was ever destroyed. Ventus just won and Vanitas returned to Ventus. This also seems to happen when Ven is in the age of fairytales. Ven references something along the lines in Remind by telling Vanitas "You're coming home too." Where else is home but inside Ventus?

I'm also skeptical of Vanitas' comment you referenced if he means literally or symbolically/figuratively distinct. Or it could just mean that Vanitas is a combination of both the Darkness and Ven's darkness. Still doesn't seem like Vanitas was permanently destroyed though.

ETA: Also if Vanitas were destroyed and he was a Darkness, then Sora wouldn't have encountered a Darkness when he dived into Ven's heart during Remind.

Ventus never had any darkness. He confirms this himself in Union X. He was always a being of pure light. The only darkness he ever had inside him was when he gave what is now known as Vanitas a physical form and absorbed/merged with him. We have to remember that Vanitas was made whole the same way that Ventus was made whole but with a piece of xehanorts heart rather than Sora's. When he was defeated and returned to ventus we can assume that the part of xehanort in him was stripped/expunged leaving him as simply "darkness".

 

[vaderskywalker]

Ventus never had any darkness. He confirms this himself in Union X. He was always a being of pure light. The only darkness he ever had inside him was when he gave what is now known as Vanitas a physical form and absorbed/merged with him. We have to remember that Vanitas was made whole the same way that Ventus was made whole but with a piece of xehanorts heart rather than Sora's. When he was defeated and returned to ventus we can assume that the part of xehanort in him was stripped/expunged leaving him as simply "darkness".

Didn't know that, so would that make Ventus a prince of heart?

 

[Dandelion]

That's absolutely not true. Ven wasn't always a being of pure light, it's what he became when Darkness started squating in him.

 

[Idreamaboutcats]

I was actually thinking about Ven’s…erm…state of being for a while already, especially before Strelitzia’s murder and the scene at the clocktower.

The mod might be right. If Ven had been a heart of pure light to begin with, he wouldn’t have been susceptible to its machinations and obeyed it, picking up the rulebook and following it out the door.

Of course, the caveat is that trance of his at that time is literally just that, a trance. Kairi had a trance of her own while the islands were being swamped in darkness, and probably put her in a state of vulnerability minus the suggestibility, because princess.

 

[Willow A113]

That's absolutely not true. Ven wasn't always a being of pure light, it's what he became when Darkness started squating in him.

Anna and Elsa weren't always princesses of heart. It's what they became when the previous princesses passed on their power.
I always liked to call Ven a prince of heart lol

 

[Chie]

Not saying that everyone doesn't deserve a second chance in life, but in the narrative and themes of KH, the key thing about the Foretellers is that they're adults. They are indeed victims of abuse, and at the same time, it is notable that the War, which claims the lives of most of the children, happens entirely because of a bunch of adults fucking it up.

I think there's a good chance they will still be portrayed as fairly negative characters for this reason.