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About Terra and Master Xehanort



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Cosmic+Amarna

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I'd have to agree mainly with what Relix is saying, I mean this is even the guy's description in his biography "A disciplined young man who feels compelled to find greater strength. He relies on brute force in combat". But we find out in BBS is that he is not as disciplined as this claim. As Relix mentioned, wisdom and knowledge are two different things. He gets mind hustled throughout the entire game, I'd say maybe that Terra is weak minded. But this is not true in his sense of will though, and that is what we have seen him display.

I do think that maybe some sort of sound merging of those two key parts exists:
-Terra relies on his willpower and stubborn strength to accomplish or achieve things, thus he is not eligible to out smart MX.
-He has ME's heart or whatever, we saw him display some hubris in Blank Points, he's had a decade to develop, thus he is eligible to out smart MX.

So while it is evident that what we have seen of this person would likely cause us to think the first, that he is will power and not whits, we could still imagine a scenario in which Terra finally fully comprehends some s*** and turns that knowledge into the long sought after wisdom. I'm thinking of a situation where he stills relies on and uses his sheer will power, but does it so with a clear aim and focus now, which would qualify him as having gained some wisdom in that regard since in BBS his focus and perspective was obviously deluded and ended up costing him. A warrior who is wise would know his/her weaknesses and strengths and would play off of those accordingly.

So it is possible for him to do a mixture of both concepts. He would still be using his will power to accomplish this 'out smarting of MX', like how we have seen him use only strength thus far. But here he would now know how to properly think about the situation after the time being trapped or whatever and also from failing pretty hardcore at what he would usually do/way he'd go about things in the past; the thing that got him into this trouble. So he realizes his attributes and situation and then uses his will power and strength accordingly but with a correct perspective as opposed to his old ways of thinking/doing things. This would and wouldn't be outsmarting MX both at the same time. It would be 'out smarting' him because this is something that MX would not have expected, he would not think that Terra would be able to obtain the wisdom and clear focus that he needed in order to be immune to things like the mind raping sessions. MX doesn't think that the Terra he knew would ever be able to make the lucid decisions/choices that he needed to do in order to avoid his fate. It would not be 'out smarting' him because technically it would not be Terra devising some master plan that out gambits MX's, it would just be him using his will power again but with clear focus instead.

Or Master Eraqus shows him some sort of trick , he says 'I showed Aqua one but since I'm trapped in your heart and you're heart is trapped in Xehanort's I guess I've got some time to show you a thing or two'
 

arcticfox8

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Can we actually count how many people are in the new Organization? I mean people who we can name?
 

Sephiroth0812

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Can we actually count how many people are in the new Organization? I mean people who we can name?

There are six who can be named so far:

1. Master Xehanort
2. Xemnas
3. Ansem, Seeker of Darkness
4. Xigbar
5. Saix
6. Young Xehanort.

While Terra (or rather, Terra-Xehanort) is heavily implied to be a member both in-game and the DDD Ultimania, we do not have a confirmation yet.
Vanitas is also often speculated to be a member somehow despite having no physical form at the moment because of the golden Xehanort-eyes he has, but that's also speculation.
 

arcticfox8

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There are six who can be named so far:

1. Master Xehanort
2. Xemnas
3. Ansem, Seeker of Darkness
4. Xigbar
5. Saix
6. Young Xehanort.

While Terra (or rather, Terra-Xehanort) is heavily implied to be a member both in-game and the DDD Ultimania, we do not have a confirmation yet.
Vanitas is also often speculated to be a member somehow despite having no physical form at the moment because of the golden Xehanort-eyes he has, but that's also speculation.
What about that Riku look-a-like Riku saw in Prankster's Paradise?
 

Sephiroth0812

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What about that Riku look-a-like Riku saw in Prankster's Paradise?

Unconfirmed as well.
It isn't made clear what that apparition actually is and the Ultimania does not say anything about it.

Some people theorize that it may be the Riku Replica from Chain of Memories revived as a member of the new Organisation, some say it was just an illusion dreamed up by the real Riku (or the sleeping world recreating the events from KH 1) while others say it was either Ansem SoD or Young Xehanort taking Riku's form in order to fascilate some more mindfuck.
 

Memory Master

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Honestly some of you act like Terra couldn't have changed since BBS. Terra is not going to go and make the same mistakes he did in BBS. All of that in BBS has surely taught him something, it's changed him surely.

Look at Sora, he changed from KH1 to KH2. At the start of KH1 he was cocky and was jealous of Riku. He didn't want to go saving the worlds, he just wanted to get his friends back. When he reaches Hollow Bastion we see the "hearts and friends are my power" type of Sora really starting to show. By the time of KH2 he still has elements of the more childish qualities but now those qualities are more subdued and his duty as a Keyblade Wielder is starting to take priority, and we see Sora developing into the personality he has today.

If Sora goes through a personality change in a year, then surely Terra has done a personality change in the past 11 years. Surely Terra isn't the same naive young man he was in BBS. If anything Terra is probably less trusting of strangers now.

Heck Aqua has also probably had some personality changes by now too.

Being controlled by an old mad man or being trapped in an endless realm of darkness all alone, both are going to cause a person to change somehow.
 

Zen

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Unconfirmed as well.
It isn't made clear what that apparition actually is and the Ultimania does not say anything about it.

Some people theorize that it may be the Riku Replica from Chain of Memories revived as a member of the new Organisation, some say it was just an illusion dreamed up by the real Riku (or the sleeping world recreating the events from KH 1) while others say it was either Ansem SoD or Young Xehanort taking Riku's form in order to fascilate some more minddiddly.

I'm inclined to think that he appeared due to the world recreating events just because there was no boss fight against him, no dialogue, he was after Pinnochio, and he disappeared right afterwards.
 

Taochan

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I'm inclined to think that he appeared due to the world recreating events just because there was no boss fight against him, no dialogue, he was after Pinnochio, and he disappeared right afterwards.
If that were the case, why was he in an Organization cloak?
 

Zen

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Haha, right, good point. I forgot about that.

Then idk, could be anything, but it does seem strange that it was only that time and nothing really happened with him other than Pinocchio being with him.
 

Dreaded_Desire62

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I didn't see Terranort in the Round Room along with XH, MX, YX, Xemnas, Braig, Isa and etc. Heck, I didn't even see Riku-nort. Unless, they were on of the members with their hoods on.
 

Zen

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I didn't see Terranort in the Round Room along with XH, MX, YX, Xemnas, Braig, Isa and etc. Heck, I didn't even see Riku-nort. Unless, they were on of the members with their hoods on.

It's not that far of a stretch if it was true though. We didn't see all of their faces, so they could've been there.
 

Taochan

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I didn't see Terranort in the Round Room along with XH, MX, YX, Xemnas, Braig, Isa and etc. Heck, I didn't even see Riku-nort. Unless, they were on of the members with their hoods on.
We had 6 confirmed visually while Terra (in some form) was pretty much confirmed by MX's speech. Rikunort, however, is speculation at this point.
 

Dreaded_Desire62

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Yeah, I hear ya. But, who was the figure wearing the organization coat and had red eyes? Maybe, there are alternative versions of Xehanort that exist like there are different versions of himself that appear throughout the Kingdom Hearts timeline.
 

Taochan

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Yeah, I hear ya. But, who was the figure wearing the organization coat and had red eyes? Maybe, there are alternative versions of Xehanort that exist like there are different versions of himself that appear throughout the Kingdom Hearts timeline.

That was Sora's Nightmare.
 

Relix

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Honestly some of you act like Terra couldn't have changed since BBS. Terra is not going to go and make the same mistakes he did in BBS. All of that in BBS has surely taught him something, it's changed him surely.

Look at Sora, he changed from KH1 to KH2. At the start of KH1 he was cocky and was jealous of Riku. He didn't want to go saving the worlds, he just wanted to get his friends back. When he reaches Hollow Bastion we see the "hearts and friends are my power" type of Sora really starting to show. By the time of KH2 he still has elements of the more childish qualities but now those qualities are more subdued and his duty as a Keyblade Wielder is starting to take priority, and we see Sora developing into the personality he has today.

If Sora goes through a personality change in a year, then surely Terra has done a personality change in the past 11 years. Surely Terra isn't the same naive young man he was in BBS. If anything Terra is probably less trusting of strangers now.

Heck Aqua has also probably had some personality changes by now too.

Being controlled by an old mad man or being trapped in an endless realm of darkness all alone, both are going to cause a person to change somehow.

You don't understand. I'm not saying Terra hasn't grown from his mistake, he even shows a change in attitude when he's speaking with Master Xehanort within their shared heart or what have, BUT, it is another thing to say Terra has changed his nature. Just because he's learned from his mistakes doesn't mean he is ready to even dare taking on Xehanort in a mind game. Even in their conversation it's not implied that Terra has a plan that will outsmart Xehanort, just one that Terra will fulfill, where Xehanort pretty much says you can FIGHT me (again emphasizing his will) but I am patient. Doesn't that sound more like a tactician saying he will slowly withstand and pick at an unwavering will, than someone like Terra suddenly being capable of outsmarting Xehanort who in turn outsmarted EVERYONE.

I am simply pointing out Terra's nature. He is not a tactician. He is not a genius. He is not a Xehanort. But he sure as hell has the will to kick Xehanort's ass the chance he gets. Terra point blank tells Xehanort, "sure you may succeed in all your planning but I have one goal that will make me keep on fighting." Terra knows his strength and his weaknesses. We should know them too.
 

Dreaded_Desire62

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Do you think that Terra-nort is going to show back up in Kingdom Hearts 3? I mean, in Kingdom Hearts 3D, he didn't show up along with Ienzo, Aeleus, Dilan, Lea, and Even. So, if Master Xehanort was collection versions of himself, which I still don't get. I mean, surely Isa might betray Master Xehanort and etc, because of the plan his Nobody counterpart, Saix and Axel had of taking over the Organization, he might decide to reuse or something.
 

Sephiroth0812

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Sora's Nightmare, what's that?

Exactly what it says on the tin. The Nightmare Sora was trapped in took a physical shape as the Anti Black Coat.
This being is in fact a dark mirror image of Riku. Just as each Spirit Dream Eater has a Nightmare counterpart, Riku has one too since he's equivalent to a Spirit Dream Eater as evidenced by the Symbol on his back.
Riku functions as Sora's Spirit Dream Eater guarding him from Nightmares, and the Anti Black Coat is the corresponding Nightmare, it has nothing to do with Xehanort or the new Organisation.

You don't understand. I'm not saying Terra hasn't grown from his mistake, he even shows a change in attitude when he's speaking with Master Xehanort within their shared heart or what have, BUT, it is another thing to say Terra has changed his nature. Just because he's learned from his mistakes doesn't mean he is ready to even dare taking on Xehanort in a mind game. Even in their conversation it's not implied that Terra has a plan that will outsmart Xehanort, just one that Terra will fulfill, where Xehanort pretty much says you can FIGHT me (again emphasizing his will) but I am patient. Doesn't that sound more like a tactician saying he will slowly withstand and pick at an unwavering will, than someone like Terra suddenly being capable of outsmarting Xehanort who in turn outsmarted EVERYONE.

I am simply pointing out Terra's nature. He is not a tactician. He is not a genius. He is not a Xehanort. But he sure as hell has the will to kick Xehanort's ass the chance he gets. Terra point blank tells Xehanort, "sure you may succeed in all your planning but I have one goal that will make me keep on fighting." Terra knows his strength and his weaknesses. We should know them too.

Exactly this. I'm sure that most people will agree with the premise that Terra learned from his mistakes and still keeps resisting in some form and/or waiting for his chance to strike.
But saying that he completely turns his basic nature in and out and becomes a devious and cunning strategist is not only very unrealistic when looking at the whole build-up of his character and nowhere hinted or implied, it would also be a total 180° turn that would essentially destroy his character.
That's the same as if Sora would turn into a second Ienzo with scientific knowledge and able to grasp complicated issues despite it being a core trait of Sora's character that he doesn't grasp complicated plans and explanations and admits they are over his head.

Same goes for Terra, he isn't a Xehanort, a Mickey, a Yen Sid or a Joshua.
When Xehanort, a Master of deceit and mindgaming, can even outwit magnificent bastards/chess masters (to remain in TVTropes-speech) of their own right like Yen Sid or Mickey, it's very hard to conclude that he would be outwitted by someone who's known to reach his goals with brute force, determination and will like Terra is.
The sole reason the Lingering Sentiment was able to be come around even was Terra's exceptionally strong will combined with his anger, not because of his prowess in strategic thinking and devising elaborate planning.

Do you think that Terra-nort is going to show back up in Kingdom Hearts 3? I mean, in Kingdom Hearts 3D, he didn't show up along with Ienzo, Aeleus, Dilan, Lea, and Even. So, if Master Xehanort was collection versions of himself, which I still don't get. I mean, surely Isa might betray Master Xehanort and etc, because of the plan his Nobody counterpart, Saix and Axel had of taking over the Organization, he might decide to reuse or something.

It is very strongly implied that a version of Terra-Xehanort is a member of Master Xehanort's Organisation, more is not yet revealed. And that "Terra-Xehanort" didn't show up alongside Ienzo and the others at RG was explained in-game as Xehanort is a special case.
Master Xehanort was completely revived in the World that Never was after Riku defeated Young Xehanort (with Master Xehanort's consciousness possessing him).

The way it looks like now Saix is either on MX's side willingly or his own consciousness is completely repressed by the Xehanort-part inside him.
The "plan" of Saix and Axel does not exist anymore, Axel abandoned it after he decided to place his loyalty with Roxas and Xion when Saix showed to become more and more of a jerkass in Days.
 

Taochan

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Do you think that Terra-nort is going to show back up in Kingdom Hearts 3?
Maybe, it's unclear what form Terra will be in.

I mean, in Kingdom Hearts 3D, he didn't show up along with Ienzo, Aeleus, Dilan, Lea, and Even.
Because he and Xigbar had already left by the time Lea had woken up.

So, if Master Xehanort was collection versions of himself, which I still don't get.
He went through time to collect every version of his past self in order to have the 13 Darknesses necessary to create the X-blade.

I mean, surely Isa might betray Master Xehanort and etc, because of the plan his Nobody counterpart, Saix and Axel had of taking over the Organization, he might decide to reuse or something.
Technically, that's Saix not Isa. Saix is becoming a Xehanort and it's highly unlikely that he would betray Xehanort because of that.
 
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