Spoilers ► A few thoughts on 2.8



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VoidGear.

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I'm finally completely through with 0.2 and feel like sharing a bit of my thoughts towards the entirety of 2.8. I didn't completely finish 3D yet, but since I already did that years ago and it's the only "old" content of the game, I don't see the need to, either.
Since there is one thread dedicated on the gameplay feedback and one on the story, but this covers both, I figured I'd just make a new thread. If it belongs somewhere else that I missed, feel free to put it there. <3

Oh, and obviously this is gonna be full of spoilers.

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Muke

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I'm finally completely through with 0.2 and feel like sharing a bit of my thoughts towards the entirety of 2.8. I didn't completely finish 3D yet, but since I already did that years ago and it's the only "old" content of the game, I don't see the need to, either.
Since there is one thread dedicated on the gameplay feedback and one on the story, but this covers both, I figured I'd just make a new thread. If it belongs somewhere else that I missed, feel free to put it there. <3

Oh, and obviously this is gonna be full of spoilers.

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DID YOU PULL MY THOUGHTS OUT OF MY HEAD?!

Seriously though, I agree with everything.
Wow.
 

Zettaflare

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Great post Void. I especially agree about the
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the NPCS. Honestly if they didn't bother having them in Back Cover (were there shouldn't have been any technical limitations) I wouldn't expect them in KH3. It's kind of obvious at this point there arent any NPCs by choice of the developers
 

VoidGear.

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DID YOU PULL MY THOUGHTS OUT OF MY HEAD?!

Seriously though, I agree with everything.
Wow.
Lel. Who knows? Maybe I did. xD

Great post Void. I especially agree about the
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the NPCS. Honestly if they didn't bother having them in Back Cover (were there shouldn't have been any technical limitations) I wouldn't expect them in KH3. It's kind of obvious at this point there arent any NPCs by choice of the developers
Thank you.
Yeah, this has me heavily worried as well. One could argue that eeeveryone was always out on missions, but I kinda don't buy it. I really hope KH3 will have a few NPCs at least. :/
 

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Thank you.
Yeah, this has me heavily worried as well. One could argue that eeeveryone was always out on missions, but I kinda don't buy it. I really hope KH3 will have a few NPCs at least. :/
And when there was NPC's, they were poorly designed and clearly unfinished models (I don't believe that any of those keyblade wielders created for the dandelions were fully functional models, they looked more like poorly painted manikins with weird hair color galore). I mean, could it have killed Square to make more than one design for the dandelions interesting or memorable? They couldn't have even had Skuld stand there for that ONE scene? At least Skuld would have distracted me from the badly modeled and horribly bland character designs of the dandelions, I seriously almost want the characters to have those ridiculous afros and sunglasses and stuff like game it hails from had so that we at least got something interesting to look at. Everyone looks like a scrapped design of the standard, vanilla protagonist model that everyone changes in their first five minutes of the avatar board, and in a world like Kingdom Hearts X where the foretellers are dressed like Power Rangers Wild Force I expect more creative designs out of the team than this. I don't think anyone else has really commented on this (at least people aren't talking about it), but it seriously irked me during Ava's big moment. Made the movie seem like a horrible unnecessary cash-in, which I know Nomura didn't intend to happen.
 

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I honestly didn't even notice the lack of NPCs in Back Cover until this post lol.

I don't know if I just got used to them not being there (it is KH), or if I just didn't think they were really necessary (most of the movie is just scenes between the Foretellers in closed quarters primarily (their secret lair, the warehouse, in back alleys, etc), but I didn't really miss them.

That said, yeah, I wouldn't expect KH3 to be much different. They've always had the ability to have more NPCs.


I don't really get the criticism of the NPCs designs being lackluster. They're based off of Unchained outfits, and, generally, you don't want one-note characters to be designed that they pull focus with flash? (There's a reason why Ephemer and Skuld's designs stand out from the other NPCs) The important character in that scene is Ava, not the Dandelions.
 

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I honestly didn't even notice the lack of NPCs in Back Cover until this post lol.

I don't know if I just got used to them not being there (it is KH), or if I just didn't think they were really necessary (most of the movie is just scenes between the Foretellers in closed quarters primarily (their secret lair, the warehouse, in back alleys, etc), but I didn't really miss them.

That said, yeah, I wouldn't expect KH3 to be much different.


I don't really get the criticism of the NPCs designs being lackluster. They're based off of Unchained outfits, and, generally, you don't want one-note characters to be designed that they pull focus with flash? (There's a reason why Ephemer and Skuld's designs stand out from the other NPCs) The important character in that scene is Ava, not the Dandelions.
Eh, but you could argue that since you never spend any time with any of these Dandelions shown that some extra flash would help with the fact that they have the character of a cheese sandwich. None of these dandelions even speak, let alone visibly do something in the plot of either game, so having some visual interest mixed in would help maybe even one of these designs or characters memorable. How cool would it have been to have a giant galaxy Afro-looking wielder model in Back Cover, or maybe just have characters that don't have strange hues of blue in their hair? (I know I need to let it go, but the blue hair looks so odd, especially when they use it multiple times) I see how it's important to listen to Ava too, but this scene should have been something more exciting, empowering, uplifting even, and watching the camera pan around a bunch of uninspired Keyblade wielding manikins just made the characters seem fake. The scene just didn't do it for me with the models involved, maybe if they spent a little more time on character creation or even just kept the camera off of them more I would have felt more for Ava's speech. It also didn't help that the town was empty practically 24/7 in the movie, making it feel like Ava was literally saving a world that was filled with a maximum of 30 people at a time.

EDIT: Thinking about it, I also can't recall any other instances of a keyblade wielder model not from the dandelions. Maybe the two from the opening fighting the darkside, but that is it.

Also, I want to make it clear that the dandelions in this post doesn't refer to Skuld or Ephemer. I think their designs are great and that their character is clearly defined and excellently written, I'm only referring to the other dandelions that never say a word in either games and just appear as models (I'm going to fact-check myself later, but did they even use the same dandelions as they did in unchained? As in, are the models from Back Cover just Kingdom Hearts III graphic versions of the ones previously established in unchained, or did they just create random keyblade wielders that could fill in for the dandelions in Back Cover?)
 

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None of these dandelions even speak, let alone visibly do something in the plot of either game
Which is exactly why they shouldn't get more specific designs that pull focus and make them standout (and thus, to the audience, suggest they are more important than they are).

How cool would it have been to have a giant galaxy Afro-looking wielder model in Back Cover
That honestly sounds a lot worse to me and would have just stuck out incredibly in a scene that is, essentially, the dramatic climax of the movie.
 

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Which is exactly why they shouldn't get more specific designs that pull focus and make them standout (and thus, to the audience, suggest they are more important than they are).


That honestly sounds a lot worse to me and would have just stuck out incredibly in a scene that is, essentially, the dramatic climax of the movie.
I don't know man, it just seems completely lazy to me. I don't mean to be one of those people that's like "back in my day, keyblade wielders used to have so many interesting designs, with sweatshirts and black coats and corsets and armor and a thousand and one zippers" yada yada yada, but, especially since it's contrasted by scarf-wearing Ephemer and Power Rangers Wild Force (yes, still using that comparison) foretellers, it just seems completely strange. It's like if you had a new superhero team of marvel superheroes on television, but there was five iconic heroes like Captain America or Iron Man and then there was like 25 people who were either just a dude wearing a sweatshirt or a blue-haired chick wearing a plain brown dress. It's just not that visually engaging, and we can argue day and night about if it's important for them to be designed super interestingly (hint: you're right, it's not essential), but the fact is that Square Enix just made it look like they didn't even try for this one. I don't know, agree to disagree on this one, Audo? I just wanted more to look at, but I respect your thinking on the matter, as I do think that it is important to take into account how much importance this really holds, which might not be as much as the title of dandelion originally holds in the main game.
 

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VoidGear. said:
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I don't know man, it just seems completely lazy to me. I don't mean to be one of those people that's like "back in my day, keyblade wielders used to have so many interesting designs, with sweatshirts and black coats and corsets and armor and a thousand and one zippers" yada yada yada, but, especially since it's contrasted by scarf-wearing Ephemer and Power Rangers Wild Force (yes, still using that comparison) foretellers, it just seems completely strange. It's like if you had a new superhero team of marvel superheroes on television, but there was five iconic heroes like Captain America or Iron Man and then there was like 25 people who were either just a dude wearing a sweatshirt or a blue-haired chick wearing a plain brown dress. It's just not that visually engaging, and we can argue day and night about if it's important for them to be designed super interestingly (hint: you're right, it's not essential), but the fact is that Square Enix just made it look like they didn't even try for this one. I don't know, agree to disagree on this one, Audo? I just wanted more to look at, but I respect your thinking on the matter, as I do think that it is important to take into account how much importance this really holds, which might not be as much as the title of dandelion originally holds in the main game.
Ephemer and the Foretellers are important major characters while the Dandelions themselves aren't, that is the difference.
The Dandelions are just background eye candy in this case and therefore have rather plain designs so no one would mistakenly believe them to hold a prominent role.

Since you mention Captain America and Iron Man as a comparison, do they in those TV/movie adaptions really give out unique and "visually appealing" designs for every minor S.H.I.E.L.D.-agent and second-row support character that is part of the team?

It's also not like the Dandelions look inherently bad designwise, in fact their garments, hairstyles and faces have more in common with actual KH characters than most of the overly ridiculous "designs" Unchained X-players put their avatars into in the actual game.
Since it is only for one scene and they're all no-name characters it is reasonable why they just used six or seven variations of hairstyles, faces and clothing and then mixed it around with both setup and colors.
 

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Sephiroth0812

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Grono

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Ephemer and the Foretellers are important major characters while the Dandelions themselves aren't, that is the difference.
The Dandelions are just background eye candy in this case and therefore have rather plain designs so no one would mistakenly believe them to hold a prominent role.

Since you mention Captain America and Iron Man as a comparison, do they in those TV/movie adaptions really give out unique and "visually appealing" designs for every minor S.H.I.E.L.D.-agent and second-row support character that is part of the team?

It's also not like the Dandelions look inherently bad designwise, in fact their garments, hairstyles and faces have more in common with actual KH characters than most of the overly ridiculous "designs" Unchained X-players put their avatars into in the actual game.
Since it is only for one scene and they're all no-name characters it is reasonable why they just used six or seven variations of hairstyles, faces and clothing and then mixed it around with both setup and colors.
Yeah, i get the fact that not every keyblade wielder has a big role in the story. But, something else I noticed last night re-watching scenes from Back Cover is that they recycle the same exact character design. Not only that, but REGULARLY throughout Ava's speech characters switch positions, are swapped out for other models, or are added ad nauseam. A game me and my little brother started playing throughout multiple viewings of the scene was determining whenever a character in the same shot was a direct copy of another character in the shot, and we came up with at least 4 or 5 character models that remain unchanged, copied and pasted all over the scene. I don't mean that their hairstyle was the same or that their jackets had similar colors or designs, I mean they literally had the same tunic, same clothing colors, same hairstyle, same hair color, same eye color, same skin color, same everything. And they pasted them throughout the scene. the last scene showing the dandelions depicts one character who is copied like this 3 TIMES OVER THE PICTURE. One of the models, I consider the "original" one, was posed near the center, while an exact copy of her was posed down and a little bit to the right of her, and ANOTHER copy of the character was posed in the upper left of the screen. And, again, by copy I mean that every detail of the model was the exact same as the model in the same scene. I admit that some models were desirable (we actually got a couple of dark-skinned keyblade wielders for once and there's a dude with a red tunic and the samurai haircut whose design I admittedly adore), but overall it just seems like Square Enix's X team really didn't care about this one.

If it was like the 10 keyblades from the keyblade graveyard, that'd be one thing. But for character models in an enclosed space like that... something just seems inherently lazy on their part. It'd be one thing if it was a game and a couple of the same models were used for the NPC's in the town (although a recolor would have been nice), but in an enclosed space like the tight circle the dandelions formed, it just seems weird to see exact copies of the characters.

Also, I agree with you on ridiculous designs being unwanted. I just really want a disco queen, giant-Afro keyblade wielder with giant hoop earrings canon xD
 

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So I should use spoiler tags here I guess...? Well I'll do it anyway just to be sure.

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Sephiroth0812

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Yeah, i get the fact that not every keyblade wielder has a big role in the story. But, something else I noticed last night re-watching scenes from Back Cover is that they recycle the same exact character design. Not only that, but REGULARLY throughout Ava's speech characters switch positions, are swapped out for other models, or are added ad nauseam. A game me and my little brother started playing throughout multiple viewings of the scene was determining whenever a character in the same shot was a direct copy of another character in the shot, and we came up with at least 4 or 5 character models that remain unchanged, copied and pasted all over the scene. I don't mean that their hairstyle was the same or that their jackets had similar colors or designs, I mean they literally had the same tunic, same clothing colors, same hairstyle, same hair color, same eye color, same skin color, same everything. And they pasted them throughout the scene. the last scene showing the dandelions depicts one character who is copied like this 3 TIMES OVER THE PICTURE. One of the models, I consider the "original" one, was posed near the center, while an exact copy of her was posed down and a little bit to the right of her, and ANOTHER copy of the character was posed in the upper left of the screen. And, again, by copy I mean that every detail of the model was the exact same as the model in the same scene. I admit that some models were desirable (we actually got a couple of dark-skinned keyblade wielders for once and there's a dude with a red tunic and the samurai haircut whose design I admittedly adore), but overall it just seems like Square Enix's X team really didn't care about this one.

If it was like the 10 keyblades from the keyblade graveyard, that'd be one thing. But for character models in an enclosed space like that... something just seems inherently lazy on their part. It'd be one thing if it was a game and a couple of the same models were used for the NPC's in the town (although a recolor would have been nice), but in an enclosed space like the tight circle the dandelions formed, it just seems weird to see exact copies of the characters.

Also, I agree with you on ridiculous designs being unwanted. I just really want a disco queen, giant-Afro keyblade wielder with giant hoop earrings canon xD
That's what I meant with just using six or seven different "sets" of body/clothing/hair parts and mixing them up plus recoloring them sometimes.
Going with this they most likely made around ten to twelve different Dandelions, put them into a group, then multiplied/mirrored that group and switched some models around, perhaps added one or two recolors to some of them in post-production as well and that was it.

For characters which will most likely be seen only in this one scene they did put quite a thought into the general design I'd say, as when I remember the "crowd" on the Imperial Plaza in Mulan's world these were nothing but shadowy figures and the regular Chinese Soldiers (not the three important ones) were also all more or less palette swaps and reused models of each other.

Are these things obvious? Certainly, but I'd say it is still better than having Ava speak towards an empty Fountain Square (like Zack gesturing to an empty crowd in BBS in Terra's story).

Some of them even look regidly cute or funny:
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