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A few months later, was KH3 a failure?



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Elysium

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I Google searched about using a USB / PC before. Strange that it’s impossible to do something like that. :unsure:
 

SuperSaiyanSora

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I Google searched about using a USB / PC before. Strange that it’s impossible to do something like that. :unsure:

I know back in the day, you could use a USB/PC method to update your PS3, and I think that also applied to game updates and saves. But I guess maybe because of privacy and safety, they don't permit that on a PS4. But I guess then again, things were way different back in 2006 when the PS3 launched, so I suppose Sony is under the impression that most would have acceptable internet connection.
 

allenleonardo

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Hm lets see:

- Amount of copies sold (thus financial success): No failure, one of the best sold KH games and is one of the SE games which is biggest launch numbers.
- Among metacritics: No failure, has at least over 80 points which makes it a quite good game.
- Among fans: Well that is 100% not solveable. If you believe some than KH3 is the worst game ever, others see it as their perfect masterpiece and I think more people are just quite fine with it.

So at least out of these three categories, two are 100% not a failure and the third one cant be really told. But even there I have seen much more negative comments on KH specific sites (but also with lots of positive ones too) while other sites have been quite mixed. So I would even dare and say that its not a failure there either.

(Also I would be careful with "most people" because a fan forum is always just a small part and has often people on it that love the franchise thus could be quite critical to it too. That does not mean that they are the majority. [They could be in some cases but we cant count on that])

In the end if you enjoyed it then its a win for you thus no failure for you. Which honestly should be the most important part for you.
 
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Oracle Spockanort

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Yeh, allenleonardo is right. You really shouldn’t take other people’s negative opinions and internalize them when in the end what matters most to you is your enjoyment of the game, Nukara.
 

Sakuraba Neku

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If you like KH3, don't let others ruin your fun. Internet hates everything.

Most recent examples are Final Fantasy XV, Dragon Ball Super, Kingdom Hearts 3 and Game of Thrones post-books seasons. From a business point of view, none of these can't be seen as failures because they have made a lot of money and that's the priority number one for any company.

Their quality as a product however is subjective and people are free to have their own opinion. I actually like all of them.
Not everyone hates KH3, but one side is more vocal than the other. Nothing brings people together faster than mutual hatred.

For me KH3 is good enough to not be considered a "failure", but it didn't live up to my expectations.
 
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Alpha Baymax

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I think the true ramifications of Kingdom Hearts III relevance will be felt after the next Kingdom Hearts entry is released. Right now, this is the most recent game, and DLC updates are coming so we have yet to see the full potential of this game.

No, but the removal of original worlds and FF characters make the game feel unfinished.

I don't get the Final Fantasy character demand. The only notable Final Fantasy characters in Kingdom Hearts were Leon and Cloud (and Joshua if you're looking at Square Enix characters in general).

Nomura said in an interview that the appeal of crossing Disney with Final Fantasy at the time was that there wasn't really any Final Fantasy game that was a crossover for the franchise. Now, we live in a world where Dissidia, Theatrerhythm and World of Final Fantasy are a thing. I would have loved a Leon and Rinoa cameo, but the exclusion of Final Fantasy characters isn't what most people hate about his game.
 

Face My Fears

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I think the true ramifications of Kingdom Hearts III relevance will be felt after the next Kingdom Hearts entry is released. Right now, this is the most recent game, and DLC updates are coming so we have yet to see the full potential of this game.



I don't get the Final Fantasy character demand. The only notable Final Fantasy characters in Kingdom Hearts were Leon and Cloud (and Joshua if you're looking at Square Enix characters in general).

Nomura said in an interview that the appeal of crossing Disney with Final Fantasy at the time was that there wasn't really any Final Fantasy game that was a crossover for the franchise. Now, we live in a world where Dissidia, Theatrerhythm and World of Final Fantasy are a thing. I would have loved a Leon and Rinoa cameo, but the exclusion of Final Fantasy characters isn't what most people hate about his game.
The Final Fantasy characters were also selected for their popularity and their game's recent release. I seriously doubt that if KH1 were released now that Tidus, Wakka, and Selphie would be the characters on Destiny Islands. Or if KH2 were released now that Yuna, Rikku, and Paine would be featured. It's kind of weird that newer players can actually play KH1 and not have any clue who any of the Final Fantasy characters are because of how old those games are. Even if they featured Lightning, some people might be lost and confused.
 

FudgemintGuardian

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I don't get the Final Fantasy character demand. The only notable Final Fantasy characters in Kingdom Hearts were Leon and Cloud (and Joshua if you're looking at Square Enix characters in general).

Nomura said in an interview that the appeal of crossing Disney with Final Fantasy at the time was that there wasn't really any Final Fantasy game that was a crossover for the franchise. Now, we live in a world where Dissidia, Theatrerhythm and World of Final Fantasy are a thing. I would have loved a Leon and Rinoa cameo, but the exclusion of Final Fantasy characters isn't what most people hate about his game.

Here's the thing. The existence of those titles should in no way affect FF's involvement in Kingdom Hearts. Oh, we have other games now where these characters cross over. That's nice. Do they also have Disney? Is it part of KH? No and no. Those other games are also in no way a substitute to KH. They are completely different experiences with different appeals.

Here's the other thing. Leon and the Restoration Committee are part of the main plot. They are not fan service. Their bizarre absence in KH3 left a very large hole and makes the scenes involving Radiant Garden painful. They were in charge. They were using the castle. You can't tell me the apprentices being able to do things while somehow never bumping into them works. You can't tell me Ansem the Wise taking back his position as leader just like that works.

You can't tell me Sora forgetting his first new friend upon leaving his world and never once asking Ienzo about the Committee works.

Because it doesn't.
 

alexis.anagram

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Morally, yes.
Haha, probably the best way to describe it, in summary.

Whether or not KH3 is a failure may have a subjective basis in rationalizing and defining that term, but sure, KH3 can easily be described as a failed effort, simply because there are so many things it fails to do (well, if at all). If the idea is that we're each looking for a good story and/or a quality gameplay experience, and the result is that it wasn't delivered to us, then there's no reason to mince words. KH3 can be said to fail to deliver in many regards, and if those areas of failure are pertinent enough, then it may be that its shortcomings prevent it from fulfilling its intended or necessary functions-- so the endeavor, on the whole, would be a failure, even if certain aspects of it are not as notably problematic as others. It may also be that it was poorly conceptualized from the outset, so whatever its achievements, they might not be sufficient to undo the inherency of its stylistic or thematic flaws.

The rest is deflection. Everybody is entitled to have their personal take on the material, but the actual facts of what it does and doesn't do can and should still be argued, and the conclusions derived from those debates have objective, as well as subjective, merit. Critical dialogue isn't designed or intended to provide hard and infallible answers, just good reasons.
 

allenleonardo

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Whether or not KH3 is a failure may have a subjective basis in rationalizing and defining that term, but sure, KH3 can easily be described as a failed effort, simply because there are so many things it fails to do (well, if at all). If the idea is that we're each looking for a good story and/or a quality gameplay experience, and the result is that it wasn't delivered to us, then there's no reason to mince words. KH3 can be said to fail to deliver in many regards, and if those areas of failure are pertinent enough, then it may be that its shortcomings prevent it from fulfilling its intended or necessary functions-- so the endeavor, on the whole, would be a failure, even if certain aspects of it are not as notably problematic as others.

Problem is that story and gameplay are mostly subjective anyway and will never make everyone happy. I am for example fine with the story. I never played the KH games for a deep story anyway (I just love Sora and his adventures with Donald and Goofy) thus I see no failure in that part. KH had always been a game that suddenly introduced us to new stuff and did never explain everything fully. For me it was a nice way to give everyone (other than Sora..) their ending with hints about the future. Some might not like how Xehanort or other characters are handled but honestly you will never really make everyone happy in that regard.

I am not sure how it can be seen as failure in the gameplay experience. Swimming for example was in my view the best it ever had. I absolutely loved the keyblade changes and found the battles to be just simply fun. Honestly the only ones that have something against the gameplay seems to be those that just like KH2 battle system more which is fine. But that imo would not make it a failure, just different tastes.

I am also not sure how its morally a failure? (Or did I misunderstood something?)

Would be really interesting to hear what the objectively failed parts are.

Here's the other thing. Leon and the Restoration Committee are part of the main plot. They are not fan service. Their bizarre absence in KH3 left a very large hole and makes the scenes involving Radiant Garden painful. They were in charge. They were using the castle. You can't tell me the apprentices being able to do things while somehow never bumping into them works. You can't tell me Ansem the Wise taking back his position as leader just like that works.

You can't tell me Sora forgetting his first new friend upon leaving his world and never once asking Ienzo about the Committee works.

Because it doesn't.

I can understand that players would miss them but I dont really see them as necessary. We dont really know if Ansem the Wise is their leader again, he just came back towards the end and helped Ienzo. Maybe I forgot but was it ever stated that he just became their leader again? Also you could ask the same about the committee too. Who gives them the right to decide who does what in the city? Are they suddenly the new leaders?

Would it have made it better that Ienzo told them that he talked to Leon and others and informed them about it and have Sora asked how they are doing? Would that talk be enough? Maybe they owned stuff there and simply could come back and conducted their research in secret. The only ones that went to radiant Garden were Riku and Mickey who had barely anything to do with them.

Sora himself might have had a deep bond with them but he also had that with others. He knows that they should be save since the world is in no danger, and since he has quite some stuff on his mind it makes it not that strange to me that he never asked about them.
 
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UltimaXOmega

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Dissidia was killed outside of Japan because of huge amounts of Japanese exclusive content. I wanted to see Rinoa in KH, 14 years after the KHII tease. It's ultimately a sign that Kingdom Hearts will be a Disney only game series going forward.
 

the red monster

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They didn't give enough screen time to characters like xion, roxas, namine and terra. that was pretty disappointing for me..
the gameplay is really fun and crit is good.
it wasn't a failure but not the best it could've been.
let's see if the DLC fix some issues
 

Face My Fears

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Here's the thing. The existence of those titles should in no way affect FF's involvement in Kingdom Hearts. Oh, we have other games now where these characters cross over. That's nice. Do they also have Disney? Is it part of KH? No and no. Those other games are also in no way a substitute to KH. They are completely different experiences with different appeals.

Here's the other thing. Leon and the Restoration Committee are part of the main plot. They are not fan service. Their bizarre absence in KH3 left a very large hole and makes the scenes involving Radiant Garden painful. They were in charge. They were using the castle. You can't tell me the apprentices being able to do things while somehow never bumping into them works. You can't tell me Ansem the Wise taking back his position as leader just like that works.

You can't tell me Sora forgetting his first new friend upon leaving his world and never once asking Ienzo about the Committee works.

Because it doesn't.
Main plot? Leon and the gang were the Exposition Committee in KH -- that's it.

In KH1 all they did was give you little tidbits of info about the keyblade, upgrade the Gummi ship so you could move on to the next area after clearing what you have to, and laid the seeds for Maleficent/Ansem. Oh and they showed up at the end in Hollow Bastion, but did nothing else to help you.

In KH2 they basically did nothing except take part in the 1,000 heartless fight solely for 1) fan service and 2) there was no other world that such a fight/scene could take place and those characters happened to be tethered to Radiant Garden. Sure, you get access to Tron in search of Ansem's data... but was pointless except for causing everyone to remember that Hollow Bastion is actually Radiant Garden.

It was clear a LONG time ago that Leon and the gang are not part of the main plot and nothing more than fan service. If they were relevant to the main plot, why have they never reappeared after KH2 except as a memory-data thing in reCoded? If they were important, why didn't they appear in BbS? They didn't even show up as NPCs you could talk to in the town.

The fact is that Leon and the gang's story in KH was to save their home world after it was taken by the darkness. They came across Sora who could help them and he restores all the worlds. In KH2, they're working on repairing Hollow Bastion. At the end of that world when Tron revives its true name, their plot came to a close. Their home world was saved.

I wish someone would actually offer actual evidence that Leon or any of the other Final Fantasy characters are part of the main plot. People are reacting to their absence as if Aqua or Riku were missing from KH3. It would have been nice for them to cameo in Radiant Garden, but there is no need for them at all to ever appear again. It only hit me that there were no Final Fantasy characters in KH3 while the credits were rolling. To be honest, I rather see newer Final Fantasy characters in one shot appearances in Disney worlds (like Auron in KH2).
 

Sign

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It was clear a LONG time ago that Leon and the gang are not part of the main plot and nothing more than fan service. If they were relevant to the main plot, why have they never reappeared after KH2 except as a memory-data thing in reCoded? If they were important, why didn't they appear in BbS? They didn't even show up as NPCs you could talk to in the town.

In BBS's case, it was basically the same reason they weren't in KH3. Even though they planned on including the young RG gang, they didn't want to distract from the main story and decided to leave them out. It wasn't like they weren't even considered to begin with.
 

Elysium

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Would it have made it better that Ienzo told them that he talked to Leon and others and informed them about it and have Sora asked how they are doing? Would that talk be enough?
Not much better, no. It would be better than nothing at all, I suppose.

Maybe they owned stuff there and simply could come back and conducted their research in secret. The only ones that went to radiant Garden were Riku and Mickey who had barely anything to do with them.
Mickey has a great deal to do with them. He informs Squall (and the others) about the Keyblade Master, Ansem, and everything else in KH1, which is why Donald & Goofy seek them out and why Sora doesn’t run around like a chicken with its head cut off for the first half of the game. Mickey also appears as familiar with Squall and co. in KH2 as SDG are.

If they were important, why didn't they appear in BbS?
Because BbS sucks as a prologue in almost every way? Why don't we see the downfall of Hollow Bastion or the experiments or the first Heartless or the world's walls being broken in BbS? Why don't we see a callback to Triton learning about the Keywielders in Atlantica or Genie having heard of the Keyholes before in Agrabah or Xehanort's offscreen interaction with Maleficent where she apparently learned everything? I’ve never had the same expectations for the crappy side games as the main titles.
 
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Face My Fears

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Because BbS sucks as a prologue in almost every way? Why don't we see the downfall of Hollow Bastion or the experiments or the first Heartless or the world's walls being broken in BbS? Why don't we see a callback to Triton learning about the Keywielders in Atlantica or Genie having heard of the Keyholes before in Agrabah or Xehanort's offscreen interaction with Maleficent where she apparently learned everything? I’ve never had the same expectations for the crappy side games as the main titles.
Answering my question asking for evidence that the Final Fantasy characters are part of the main plot with the above basically confirms that they are not a part of the main plot.

But to defend BBS somewhat -- Triton could have heard the myth of the keyblade from the Age of Fairytales or something, he never made it seem like he actually met a keyblade wielder and Genie said he heard about it a long time ago (I can't remember the number he provided, but it was WAY before Aqua/Terra/Ven). I don't think BBS was meant to be a prologue to explain in detail minor details in KH1-2. Yes, it happened in the past, but I think it was made to introduce new concepts while clarifying some stuff in KH1-2 (IE princesses of heart, who Xehanort is, etc). BBS was made so that we would know about the X-Blade, the true Kingdom Hearts, and to explain where the other keyblade masters were during KH1 and KH2.

In BBS's case, it was basically the same reason they weren't in KH3. Even though they planned on including the young RG gang, they didn't want to distract from the main story and decided to leave them out. It wasn't like they weren't even considered to begin with.
So essentially confirmed that Final Fantasy characters are not a part of the main plot.
 

KHJEDIKNIGHT

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The game is very divisive among fans, though, which is normal for a new entry to a long-running franchise. The game disappoints on various levels for a game meant to close out a saga, and there are a lot of narrative missteps taken that definitely weaken the game...like every other game in the series. But this is just personal opinion and personal opinions are a dime a dozen.

By time a new game releases, KH3 will likely be remembered more fondly by fans but still have it’s flaws.

This x10. Most fans tend to consider KHII the best in the franchise (myself included), but at the time of its release, it was incredibly divisive among the fanbase. Many people were calling it a disappointment at the time; many outright hated it. If one had searched on the various message boards in 2010, KHII was considered one of the weaker entries in the series. Over the last five years however, its reputation has improved tremendously (I think mainly due the the Final Mix HD rerelease, which fixed many of the issues that a lot of people had with the base version of the game).

But to answer the question, is KH3 a failure? Absolutely not! Like others have mentioned, it's still the best selling game of the year so far, and one of the best selling games in the franchise (if not THE best selling by now). Gameplay-wise and story-wise, it has its flaws (bad story pacing, barely any KH-original content, Disney-based worlds stories are mostly filler, etc.), but it's still an incredibly fun game to play nonetheless.

I think that once all the DLC is out, and in five years time, I think the game will be much more fondly remembered.
 

SuperSaiyanSora

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This x10. Most fans tend to consider KHII the best in the franchise (myself included), but at the time of its release, it was incredibly divisive among the fanbase. Many people were calling it a disappointment at the time; many outright hated it. If one had searched on the various message boards in 2010, KHII was considered one of the weaker entries in the series. Over the last five years however, its reputation has improved tremendously (I think mainly due the the Final Mix HD rerelease, which fixed many of the issues that a lot of people had with the base version of the game).

Funny you should mention that, because I decided to do some digging after reading this post (and because I have the spare time right now 😂), and what I found was quite interesting...

https://www.khinsider.com/forums/index.php?threads/whats-with-all-the-kh2-hate.93630/
https://www.khinsider.com/forums/index.php?threads/kh-vs-kh2.86529/
https://www.khinsider.com/forums/index.php?threads/do-you-like-kh-or-kh2.140437/ (this one should surprise you)
https://www.khinsider.com/forums/index.php?threads/the-most-annoying-things-about-kh2.97973/
https://www.khinsider.com/forums/index.php?threads/why-did-kh2-suck-to-everyone.165232/ (SUPER interesting, read this one...)
https://www.khinsider.com/forums/index.php?threads/the-good-improvements-of-kh2-and-the-bad.84810/

Okay, you get the point. But they ALL seem familiar, don't they? Switch out KH2 for KH3, and you'd have the EXACT same threads and reception you have now. So it just goes to show that this is the same song and dance. It doesn't mean that criticisms and opinions aren't valid, but I think that it's very telling that in 2019, KH2 is the golden standard... When it used to be seen as the weakest one.

People hated the Drive Forms and thought the gameplay was lacking. They thought having Mickey save you was too cheap. Matter fact, people thought the game was way too easy. They felt the plot had terrible pacing. The voice acting wasn't up to par. The Disney worlds were irrelevant and basically hallways. The lack of proper screen-time for important characters. Lack of proper character development... They're all similar. If you were to switch out Reaction Commands for Attraction Flow, Drive Forms for Formchanges and the Mickey Rescue mechanic with the Kupo Coin, it's the same thing. The only real difference here is the Shotlocks and Flowmotion (if you even use it).

Now, you could see all this and then say, "But that only makes it worse! KH2 was a PS2 title, this is a PS4 title with the culmination of everything up to now!" I never said the game was perfect lol. They were focused on delivering a full-product from beginning to end. They also had to switch engines, meaning they lost a year of development and a lot had to be redone. When you lose a year of progress, priorities in terms of adding things and overall direction can change a lot. If they can release the base game at a reasonably good quality and polish it later with technology we have now, then boom. Easier access to Final Mix content.

They could've taken more time to make KH3 a masterpiece, sure, but how much longer would that have taken? People already were complaining about delays and "it's never coming out lmao" memes, look what happened when the date was moved to 2019. It's only in hindsight that people wanted there to be more time, but hindsight is also 20/20. In the end though, this is something that happens every time, because BBS got it too. It's like how some FF fans feel the franchise died after FFX, but then you look back and see that people hated on FFVIII, FFIX and FFX the same way. Impressions change over time. It is what it is, and while it'd be nice to get a masterpiece outright, a growing love for something is fine too.
 

Elysium

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Answering my question asking for evidence that the Final Fantasy characters are part of the main plot with the above basically confirms that they are not a part of the main plot.
Trying to put down and minimize the characters isn’t going to make the criticism go away, if that’s what you were hoping. I hope Nomura will still be getting raked over the coals for the decision for years to come!
 
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