358/2 Days...without Xion?



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*TwilightNight*

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Honestly, if Days was literally just about Roxas' time with the Organization, along with his friendship with Axel and struggle against the advances of Diz/Riku—that'd been fine.

But, all the problems you listed wouldn't have ultimately been solved this way. At a certain point, the lagging sense of "time" from Roxas' conception to his defection from the Org/capture by Riku is justified (or made convenient) by Xion's erasure. At the core, I believe that was her true purpose in this story, to nullify that sense of time. A long term battle of wits/power between the Org and Diz/Riku/Namine for solely Roxas sounds interesting, but with how KH2 played out, it doesn't coincide so well with that implication. All the above issues aren't a reflection of Xion's character narrative in Days, but rather story aspects that have actually been an issue since KH2.

Xion's story could be thought of as a means of justification for the lag of Roxas' existential development within that year time span. Meaning, her insertion wasn't the means to take away his development, but rather, to explain why it didn't happen fully for Roxas until the events closer to KH2. I would agree wholeheartedly that without Xion, Diz/Riku/Namine wouldn't have waited a year to get Roxas, and Roxas having the time for development in learning and accepting of his existence through Sora wouldn't be so impeded on. But, it already was, before Xion was created, i.e. this was already set by his development and events from KH2.

The main meaning of Roxas' story was meant to be told in KH2, with us knowing there being a large amount of time where what he got out of KH2 didn't happen yet. To justify this, they had Xion be the reason for this case, a misdirection of objective for those involved in this plot. She was something to deal with, a story to be told that allowed reasoning as to why that year passed the way it did. Roxas being the way he was in KH2 wouldn't have connected well with that amount of development he would've got in a year's time. Depending on how they'd deal with that sense of "time", it would've functioned more as a retcon rather than "prequel-like", filled in narrative. The alternative sounds great, but that type of narrative to the conflict over Roxas alone should've been noted more in KH2 to fully integrate itself in the story. It's no wonder Xion's involvement didn't really change Roxas's, or anyones, perspective in KH2. It would seem, the KH Team just cared about inserting more to the context of Roxas's time in Org without changing how his experience in KH2 was perceived.

Again, this is really more of a hole the writers already dug themselves in, and they used Xion to fill it. Her character, without considering this, still held her own to not simply be reduced to just being "unnecessary" in this regard. She had a role to play, even if it wasn't performed at optimal value.

As for Riku's representation, I'm not really sure I agree either. In terms of who and what Xion was, this was something even he had to figure out, and even he still talked down to Xion when initially encountering her. He had more time to gain an understanding and a role to play in Xion's journey, something he didn't get with Roxas. This, again, is only due to what KH2 already set in stone for the time frame, this isn't a consequence of Xion as a character. I'd find it real silly for Riku to have this process with Roxas for a year, only to reverse it to how he was during KH2 events towards Roxas without any accountancy at all of it.

For Riku's overall story, yes, I agree that could've been emphasized so much more. But, neither Roxas or Xion would be needed for that anyway considering his own battle with the darkness.

Believe me, I can understand being disappointed in how they handled Roxas' story in this year time. Less is more doesn't always apply. Lol But, the flaws surrounding this plot of Days/KH2 isn't a direct result of Xion's character. Even if her character was created as a justification, her narrative showed us more than that through her own journey and friendship with Axel and Roxas. That has its own value.

Overall, my stance is just that the flaws that this facet of KH's storytelling retained was a problem set by KH2, not Xion in her entirety. She may have been used as a means to try and resolve these holes, but I don't believe her character largely suffered from this, nor did any other character as much as this thread implies. It's not perfect, but there are good things that surfaced. This year's time could've very well been different without Xion, but if so, the difference should've effectively been made precedent in KH2. I don't blame her, I blame the writing set in KH2. If as a result people dislike her, I can see why you would by association. If her character doesn't stick for you, that is what it is. I would just implore you to see it as being another victim of this game's flaws like every other character, rather than her being the source of Days/KH2 issues.

At the end of the day, Xion and Roxas do have different personalities and approaches in how they dealt with their existence in the world. They correlate, but they're not completely the same. As far as I'm concerned, Roxas story, his journey in that regard, was meant to be told through the time and place relative to KH2. His role in Days, Xion didn't necessarily "steal" this away from him, the writing already mandated for this to be in KH2. Of course, there are many things that could've been better for every character, including her. Erasing her completely from the story wouldn't directly fix these issues created before the game's conception. Roxas and others lack of development during this phase isn't a consequence of her, but the writing.

Personally, I just don't believe calling her worthless or unnecessary is really fair in this regard. -shrug- I don't know....

Disregarding that, there are good things to come from Xion's character, mainly through Axel and Roxas. Those personal journals (for every character) were pretty intriguing and added some depth that matches even the novel's character introspection. I found it to be quite enjoyable.
I can't really comprehend your argument that Roxas' development wouldn't have made sense by KH2's time or what restraint it placed on Roxas' own story of the past. There were no holes either to fill in. The only mystery about his time in the Organization that wasn't mentioned throughout KH2 was how the friendship between him and Axel failed, along with how he could dual wield. An entire game's worth of content didn't have to be created for that alone. It's funny that you talk about the time spent for an entire year, but 90% of the game is three people eating ice cream on a clock tower. Nothing plot worthy occurred until near the end of the game. And how convenient, that Roxas only took action near that end of the game while he could have been going around discovering his own self instead of sitting by. That's a fault of Xion being included in. What other role could her insertion take otherwise? Nothing about KH2's prologue set up with him inhibited or mandated anything.

KH2 began with Roxas being captured by Riku on the orders of Diz, situated in a data Twilight Town so not only can he live in blissful ignorance (which didn't happen because Naminé came in like a wrecking ball), but for him to be safe from the Organization members who may look for him. That facet of Diz's reasoning would have made a lot more sense if the Organization was already a thorn on his side throughout the year before, and would have made it have more depth in a more fulfilling manner. Roxas defected because he needed to find why the Keyblade chose him and in turn, Sora was the answer. That does not mean he already had chosen to return to him the same way Xion had done, it did not mean he figured out that his existence was in jeopardy. Just that he wanted to find the truth behind his origins, his ability, and the sole way to do so was to seek answer because his friend wasn't budging. All Days had to do was accumulate what led him to that choice, which again, would have fitted if he was the active member going through the motions and investigating. There was nothing Xion did that Roxas would not have been able to do on his own, including the memory absorbing since Xion was taking it away from him in the first place. On top of that, having him and Axel as friends without a third party not only would have separated the shoved down your throat trio concept, it would have differed Roxas from Sora by having an unique connection that isn't a rehashed SoRiKai, further implementing that he is his own person. Then, if you add a little Riku side story, we more than likely would have had a more sensible game without the plot caving itself to keep Xion alive for a year or make her so "important". It was so try hard, goodness. It's like any chance that Xion could be forced somewhere, they took it. I could not stomach it. And with KH, I've tolerated a lot of bull. It doesn't bode well coming in and having to accept this additional person feeling like it's forced.

Days as a whole was unnecessary (going back to the first point made in the first paragraph). We all know the reason for its existence is due to the crazy popularity of Organization XIII (oh, wait, XIV, oh but not really, it's XIII, but there's fourteen, despite that Naminé showed that she was able to live and interact with the members without actually being one), Axel, and most of all, Roxas. And it didn't even accomplish the potential promise it held, making a new complete character bulldoze the entire narrative, leaving the members as very much side pieces, rendering Roxas to lounge for majority of the game, and having the story revolve around angst. KH1, CoM, and KH2 worked without Days. Did it expand on Roxas' character? Certainly. Was it needed? Not exactly.

Overall, for people to bypass the flaw of Days, along with the faults of the narrative created by a character that was added in (Xion), you would have to care for Xion as a character and get attached to the sob fest. It's practically a given. If that didn't work, because it was more than likely their intention, for the audience to pity or sympathize, then the fans are not going to ignore Days' fallacies.
 

MelodicEnigma

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I can't really comprehend your argument that Roxas' development wouldn't have made sense by KH2's time or what restraint it placed on Roxas' own story of the past. There were no holes either to fill in. The only mystery about his time in the Organization that wasn't mentioned throughout KH2 was how the friendship between him and Axel failed, along with how he could dual wield. An entire game's worth of content didn't have to be created for that alone. It's funny that you talk about the time spent for an entire year, but 90% of the game is three people eating ice cream on a clock tower. Nothing plot worthy occurred until near the end of the game. And how convenient, that Roxas only took action near that end of the game while he could have been going around discovering his own self instead of sitting by. That's a fault of Xion being included in. What other role could her insertion take otherwise? Nothing about KH2's prologue set up with him inhibited or mandated anything.
Roxas story in the prologue was told in a way where it was completely reasonable to add the story arc Days had. What is "convenient", was made possible because of what KH2 set in place, and was a route they chose to connect these stories without breaking that ground. I'm mainly focusing on why Days was able to happen the way it did and how this connects to character development within the game.

Consider the reasoning as to why, even after creating an entire game to describe the events of Roxas' time in Organization XIII, that the bolded statement above still happened the way it did. This isn't a fault of Xion, but rather the means as to how the prologue's storytelling remains intact with its placement and narrative of those involved in KH2 after the intention of Days plot. The "hole", is the empty space in time where we don't know what has occurred during these events, but what really makes it something to fill is that this time has had no presence in the story and characterization presented in KH2's prologue. The only way that Xion's inclusion would have been "unnecessary" is if the emphasis of her non-inclusion was precedent in the prologue—in the way of reflecting Roxas' sole journey to his conviction of finding answers in a year's time and struggle with the other characters. Which, this was not an indication, even subtlety.

In everything that was shown in the prologue, all we saw was the moments in which Roxas had made the decision to start questioning his place in Organization XIII and the world relative to the Keyblade and Sora. But, what wasn't implied in context/subtext was how this reasoning came to being for him in relation to the other characters in an effort that contains that type of conflict for a year's time. There are a plethora of ways in which they could have set up the arduous path Roxas' would've taken to get to the point he abandoned the Organization's threshold in that amount of time, but they didn't explore the idea at all in KH2.

Yes, Days was the perfect way to fully describe his backstory from his conception to his efforts in realization and investigation of the strange occurrences happening to him. But, how this would've went about was something that should have been a reflection in KH2's initial narrative, and most certainly, should've been executed alongside Xion's inclusion. This is a typical storytelling element used to make the exposure of new information easier to digest overall, and to better link to what has already been implemented as to not make it contradict continuity. The efforts of his revelation, of him going around discovering his own self, wasn't something that was presented in KH2, and I would agree that they didn't need Days to be able to simply introduce the idea that Roxas had done this prior to being captured. With the overall presentation of Roxas' character in KH2, along with how the other characters interacted with him and his role in the game—a year of progress for Roxas' revelations in cohesion with the conflict of Organization's expectations and Diz/Riku/Namine's interference doesn't show that well from the get go. As I've said before, there is no reason to believe Roxas and Namine had a proper encounter before KH2's prologue, even before Days was released. Every single bit of this is due to how the story was told between Roxas and the other characters. The end result of his desertion isn't the only storytelling element that KH2 should've included to create a better threshold for what Days could've been.

You honestly saying that Days as a whole was unnecessary only aids the idea that the setup of the potential of this story wasn't executed properly in KH2's prologue. Are you simply bypassing the flaws KH2 has, or is it tunnel vision caused by your disinterest of Xion's character in reflection to Roxas' own lacking development? I'm not saying that it would be impossible to have had Roxas be the one to initially have a trail of breadcrumbs that exhibit his need for information. This could've been done differently, but those are issues outside of your perspective on Xion just "stealing" Roxas' magnifying glass and detective hat. She was used a certain way, but her inclusion could've been approached so much better for/with Roxas overall.

Understanding that there are better ways they could've set up Days tale of Roxas' character isn't excusing the flaws of the game itself, it's only a means to understand why they created this scenario, this game in the first place. However, it did show many facets of Roxas' personality that actually add to what was shown in KH2.

Roxas has shown to be a character that hinges on regularity as his crutch to his own existence. This isn't shown only in the ownership he wants of his own being, but even in how he repeatedly grips onto the friendship of his Twilight Town gang to gain a sense of reality when it starts to fall apart. In Days, this sense of want for a daily pattern is served by the relationship he has with Xion and Axel. Spending "90%" of the game sitting on a clock tower, eating ice cream and talking about anything with those two is the only thing Roxas really wanted, the only "normality" he used to counter the fear of change. Those memories were something he held very dear. The cutscenes, the journal entries, hell even the novella covered this nicely—Roxas main struggle in the story was not allowing these changes to take away his friendship with Xion/Axel. It may not seem important to you, but this is something that matches his personal struggle in KH2's prologue, Re:Coded, and DDD. The conflicts of Xion's many disappearances, Axel's secretive nature, the responsibility he had as a Keybearer, the constant visions he got of Sora while away on missions—all these factors fell in line with the (painstakingly) slow dissension of his conviction to find out more information.

But as you know, not even this is without its flaws. While this connects to understanding Xion's role in the story, those flaws are what should be concentrated on directly to be effective solutions.

The real problem isn't Xion's inclusion, but in how the unfolding events of the story could've been emphasized a lot more for Roxas' character alongside her development. Xion wasn't simply some calamity to Roxas' characterization and development, and "Jenova-ing" her way into the story as you keep implying. That failure is solely on how Roxas' character was handled in tandem with her inclusion. I will tell you straight up that I appreciate what a character like Xion offered to the series, but this by no means is through the act of bypassing any flaws she had as a character and how it affected the game. It's only through seeing it, congruent with other character and storytelling issues, that I don't believe eliminating her from the equation would be a cogent solution. Thinking about whether she was included or not, whether it was "necessary"—it's just not constructive. The parallel between her and Roxas was done in a way where it was a unique experience for her. That allowed me to enjoy her, and from my experience, that doesn't really abide by the sadness they enacted onto her story. That's not what got me. Assuming those who embrace her as a character are merely bypassing her flaws isn't a great observation to move forward with. But, I would've enjoyed seeing Roxas deal with these events more closely as well.

Roxas' ambition should've been fueled and acted upon further. His fear of losing them both could've easily been more involved with the ties to his existential crisis in KH2, or even better, the numerous hints they laid out for him in Days of Sora's presence. If they would've tied these things to Xion's journey more closely, allowing them to even find conflict between each other besides by the end of the game, this could've easily been successful for his characterization in Days. Even if it wasn't hugely set up by their interactions in KH2, Roxas having a strong dislike of Riku based on his goal to take his friend away could've been played with more. Learning about this person "in red" who is taking his identity away, and having Axel be in on this information could've had a larger role for him in this game as well. While I don't believe its wrong to take notice of these things, I don't like to wallow to the point of misguided blame. I would rather take the time to see what truly was offered, flaws and all still in consideration. Just saying "Roxas could've done it instead of Xion" doesn't help this notion for me, there was more going on here than just that type of "plug n' play" of characterization. This isn't something to simply be fixed just from erasing her role, and it certainly doesn't start there either.

Do you really believe it's completely justifiable for your criticism of a character to be based on the lack of development another character had? That type of inadvertent, cherry-picked placement of blame teeters the line of correlation vs causation. To even extend this with a wayward comparison of Namine's involvement with the Organization is just silly! It's one thing to criticize the story in ways that it could be improved in context, but when your idea of it is to simply throw out a character as a whole, linking all of its issues onto the shoulders of their presence—I'm sorry, but it only comes across as a blatantly hateful approach to troubleshooting a story. Which I mean, the hate was made apparent after all, so cheers I guess.

People hate characters (and grapes), especially when this perspective wastes your purchase of a game to the point you can't even get through it. I understand that, and it sucks. Chances are it'll happen in someway to most people who indulge in creative media, we'll be disappointed and expect more, or not expect at all. But for this, I just can't agree with the idea of disregarding Xion entirely from a story that not only has her as a central character, but is an integral piece to the characterization of Roxas/Axel.

I'm also not sure how it's difficult to see why Saix would have a strong dislike for Xion. Axel, and even Xemnas, investing so much effort into what he considers a defective puppet is more than enough to fuel his dislike and confusion over their heed of her. Even in the times Saix has bothered enough to say her name, he frequently refers to her as an "it", which doesn't aid in how he even physically sees her. It's one thing to have Roxas be the cause of his strained agenda with Axel, but to even have this done by what he chooses to only see as a "thing" surely is reason enough for his attitude. For something less than a Dusk to interfere not only with his plans with Organization XIII, but with his connection to Axel—how is this a misdirection of his characterization? Don't get me wrong, this too, is something that could've been told more, but honestly this aspect of Days isn't what I would consider a major flaw. There were quite the handful of scenes that showed Saix's consideration of who Axel was becoming after being involved with Roxas/Xion. What was shown was a decent amount, but this could've been supported more from Axel's own viewpoint of their waning connection amongst other things.
 
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*TwilightNight*

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Roxas story in the prologue was told in a way where it was completely reasonable to add the story arc Days had. What is "convenient", was made possible because of what KH2 set in place, and was a route they chose to connect these stories without breaking that ground. I'm mainly focusing on why Days was able to happen the way it did and how this connects to character development within the game.

Consider the reasoning as to why, even after creating an entire game to describe the events of Roxas' time in Organization XIII, that the bolded statement above still happened the way it did. This isn't a fault of Xion, but rather the means as to how the prologue's storytelling remains intact with its placement and narrative of those involved in KH2 after the intention of Days plot. The "hole", is the empty space in time where we don't know what has occurred during these events, but what really makes it something to fill is that this time has had no presence in the story and characterization presented in KH2's prologue. The only way that Xion's inclusion would have been "unnecessary" is if the emphasis of her non-inclusion was precedent in the prologue—in the way of reflecting Roxas' sole journey to his conviction of finding answers in a year's time and struggle with the other characters. Which, this was not an indication, even subtlety.

In everything that was shown in the prologue, all we saw was the moments in which Roxas had made the decision to start questioning his place in Organization XIII and the world relative to the Keyblade and Sora. But, what wasn't implied in context/subtext was how this reasoning came to being for him in relation to the other characters in an effort that contains that type of conflict for a year's time. There are a plethora of ways in which they could have set up the arduous path Roxas' would've taken to get to the point he abandoned the Organization's threshold in that amount of time, but they didn't explore the idea at all in KH2.

Yes, Days was the perfect way to fully describe his backstory from his conception to his efforts in realization and investigation of the strange occurrences happening to him. But, how this would've went about was something that should have been a reflection in KH2's initial narrative, and most certainly, should've been executed alongside Xion's inclusion. This is a typical storytelling element used to make the exposure of new information easier to digest overall, and to better link to what has already been implemented as to not make it contradict continuity. The efforts of his revelation, of him going around discovering his own self, wasn't something that was presented in KH2, and I would agree that they didn't need Days to be able to simply introduce the idea that Roxas had done this prior to being captured. With the overall presentation of Roxas' character in KH2, along with how the other characters interacted with him and his role in the game—a year of progress for Roxas' revelations in cohesion with the conflict of Organization's expectations and Diz/Riku/Namine's interference doesn't show that well from the get go. As I've said before, there is no reason to believe Roxas and Namine had a proper encounter before KH2's prologue, even before Days was released. Every single bit of this is due to how the story was told between Roxas and the other characters. The end result of his desertion isn't the only storytelling element that KH2 should've included to create a better threshold for what Days could've been.

You honestly saying that Days as a whole was unnecessary only aids the idea that the setup of the potential of this story wasn't executed properly in KH2's prologue. Are you simply bypassing the flaws KH2 has, or is it tunnel vision caused by your disinterest of Xion's character in reflection to Roxas' own lacking development? I'm not saying that it would be impossible to have had Roxas be the one to initially have a trail of breadcrumbs that exhibit his need for information. This could've been done differently, but those are issues outside of your perspective on Xion just "stealing" Roxas' magnifying glass and detective hat. She was used a certain way, but her inclusion could've been approached so much better for/with Roxas overall.

Understanding that there are better ways they could've set up Days tale of Roxas' character isn't excusing the flaws of the game itself, it's only a means to understand why they created this scenario, this game in the first place. However, it did show many facets of Roxas' personality that actually add to what was shown in KH2.

Roxas has shown to be a character that hinges on regularity as his crutch to his own existence. This isn't shown only in the ownership he wants of his own being, but even in how he repeatedly grips onto the friendship of his Twilight Town gang to gain a sense of reality when it starts to fall apart. In Days, this sense of want for a daily pattern is served by the relationship he has with Xion and Axel. Spending "90%" of the game sitting on a clock tower, eating ice cream and talking about anything with those two is the only thing Roxas really wanted, the only "normality" he used to counter the fear of change. Those memories were something he held very dear. The cutscenes, the journal entries, hell even the novella covered this nicely—Roxas main struggle in the story was not allowing these changes to take away his friendship with Xion/Axel. It may not seem important to you, but this is something that matches his personal struggle in KH2's prologue, Re:Coded, and DDD. The conflicts of Xion's many disappearances, Axel's secretive nature, the responsibility he had as a Keybearer, the constant visions he got of Sora while away on missions—all these factors fell in line with the (painstakingly) slow dissension of his conviction to find out more information.

But as you know, not even this is without its flaws. While this connects to understanding Xion's role in the story, those flaws are what should be concentrated on directly to be effective solutions.

The real problem isn't Xion's inclusion, but in how the unfolding events of the story could've been emphasized a lot more for Roxas' character alongside her development. Xion wasn't simply some calamity to Roxas' characterization and development, and "Jenova-ing" her way into the story as you keep implying. That failure is solely on how Roxas' character was handled in tandem with her inclusion. I will tell you straight up that I appreciate what a character like Xion offered to the series, but this by no means is through the act of bypassing any flaws she had as a character and how it affected the game. It's only through seeing it, congruent with other character and storytelling issues, that I don't believe eliminating her from the equation would be a cogent solution. Thinking about whether she was included or not, whether it was "necessary"—it's just not constructive. The parallel between her and Roxas was done in a way where it was a unique experience for her. That allowed me to enjoy her, and from my experience, that doesn't really abide by the sadness they enacted onto her story. That's not what got me. Assuming those who embrace her as a character are merely bypassing her flaws isn't a great observation to move forward with. But, I would've enjoyed seeing Roxas deal with these events more closely as well.

Roxas' ambition should've been fueled and acted upon further. His fear of losing them both could've easily been more involved with the ties to his existential crisis in KH2, or even better, the numerous hints they laid out for him in Days of Sora's presence. If they would've tied these things to Xion's journey more closely, allowing them to even find conflict between each other besides by the end of the game, this could've easily been successful for his characterization in Days. Even if it wasn't hugely set up by their interactions in KH2, Roxas having a strong dislike of Riku based on his goal to take his friend away could've been played with more. Learning about this person "in red" who is taking his identity away, and having Axel be in on this information could've had a larger role for him in this game as well. While I don't believe its wrong to take notice of these things, I don't like to wallow to the point of misguided blame. I would rather take the time to see what truly was offered, flaws and all still in consideration. Just saying "Roxas could've done it instead of Xion" doesn't help this notion for me, there was more going on here than just that type of "plug n' play" of characterization. This isn't something to simply be fixed just from erasing her role, and it certainly doesn't start there either.

Do you really believe it's completely justifiable for your criticism of a character to be based on the lack of development another character had? That type of inadvertent, cherry-picked placement of blame teeters the line of correlation vs causation. To even extend this with a wayward comparison of Namine's involvement with the Organization is just silly! It's one thing to criticize the story in ways that it could be improved in context, but when your idea of it is to simply throw out a character as a whole, linking all of its issues onto the shoulders of their presence—I'm sorry, but it only comes across as a blatantly hateful approach to troubleshooting a story. Which I mean, the hate was made apparent after all, so cheers I guess.

People hate characters (and grapes), especially when this perspective wastes your purchase of a game to the point you can't even get through it. I understand that, and it sucks. Chances are it'll happen in someway to most people who indulge in creative media, we'll be disappointed and expect more, or not expect at all. But for this, I just can't agree with the idea of disregarding Xion entirely from a story that not only has her as a central character, but is an integral piece to the characterization of Roxas/Axel.

I'm also not sure how it's difficult to see why Saix would have a strong dislike for Xion. Axel, and even Xemnas, investing so much effort into what he considers a defective puppet is more than enough to fuel his dislike and confusion over their heed of her. Even in the times Saix has bothered enough to say her name, he frequently refers to her as an "it", which doesn't aid in how he even physically sees her. It's one thing to have Roxas be the cause of his strained agenda with Axel, but to even have this done by what he chooses to only see as a "thing" surely is reason enough for his attitude. For something less than a Dusk to interfere not only with his plans with Organization XIII, but with his connection to Axel—how is this a misdirection of his characterization? Don't get me wrong, this too, is something that could've been told more, but honestly this aspect of Days isn't what I would consider a major flaw. There were quite the handful of scenes that showed Saix's consideration of who Axel was becoming after being involved with Roxas/Xion. What was shown was a decent amount, but this could've been supported more from Axel's own viewpoint of their waning connection amongst other things.
Based on what we discussed privately, I'm going to round it up with some points and keep it as short as possible. I'll emphasize again that I do not care for Xion whatsoever. I would not blink if she gets flicked out because in my perspective, Roxas would still leave the Organization due to other surrounding factors and friendship with Axel (something they also could've explored more with the friendlier members", a life of normalcy) regardless. Whether or not Xion is there, it'll happen. I'm not going to deny the fact that adding more depth to his characterization was great (the overarching plot of the saga simply didn't need it, it was more of a character driven game than an overall story one), I just don't believe Xion is or was a necessary involvement to accomplish it. Now it seems that you somehow want Xion to remain as an existence to Roxas' story, and this is where we come at heads because it doesn't affect me either way. I have no attachment to the character. Xion's the reason for most of the flaws I find in Days because the plot molds to fit her and inserts her into every facet possible to make it look like she's such an integral aspect when that is something that should naturally fall into place, not be forced.

This includes her chattering off in Deep Dive, asking Riku to stop Roxas when he was there already to do so by Diz's orders, Diz needing to halt action taking to remedy this situation despite saying twice that they were going to to do something and that the "gloves are off", Riku utterly sympathizing the entire time when that fully leaves later and Roxas isn't given the same treatment (it only mattered when Xion was concerned), Xion's words to "free Kingdom Hearts" which was not only vague, it was nonsensical to even say it at all if it was not going to be made clear to the recipient what it meant. It appeared like a lazy attempt to, again, get Roxas to return to TWTNW to reel in Xion. And then Xion, using that vagueness, suddenly retracted the statement by wanting to stop Roxas when he wouldn't be doing this in the first place if it wasn't for her indefinite words. It was also implied by both Roxas and Riku in KHII that they had fought each other twice. Now it makes it look like Roxas was lying out of his butt ("how many times do I have to beat you?") because it never happened. You're telling me that these faults would not be taken out if Xion was not in the equation? That's pretty hard to swallow, let's be real. Perhaps there would have been other flaws if Xion wasn't there, and then yeah, that will come into criticism. Yet as we speak, most of the befuddling aspects of the game falls to her inclusion. Naminé was simply used to add in another "forced relevancy" note to Xion's overall involvement. One that didn't do well for the earlier reception due to self-insert "14th member" fanfiction that was rampant. If Xion had to be there, her role should have been minimized and should have been smaller. Instead, they went out of their way to illogically justify why they retconned her in.

As for Saïx, the main issue is that it reeks like an integral personal problem instead of being just someone who didn't understand the immense investment being placed on a puppet. He could have continued calling Xion "it", could have dismissed her importance as a being, after all, it is not in his business to comprehend his Superior's own plans. And if it is, he would understand. Hell, Larxene sure achieved that with Riku Replica without looking like she was aiming to make Riku Replica's life miserable as if it was her vendetta. Saïx's was to a point of obsession. That type of hate occurs when there's a deep rooted prejudice against puppets, or if some puppet did wrong to him in the past that formed such an opinion that it still drives him in the present. That wasn't the case. If the problem was that Axel's attention/friendship was being driven away, Roxas should have been a target as well. So there is no, absolutely no, rational reason for his excessive behavior. Absolutely none. All it did was make Saïx completely petty and that's what his character got reduced to in Days. Once more, it's Xion, Xion, Xion, all about Xion. It's good if you care for the character, it's not when you actually don't, and it's continuously shoved down your throat. It takes from the enjoyment, automatically. Days doesn't give you the break since Xion is so interwoven with Roxas and Axel. For example, if with CoM, you didn't like Naminé, you had Sora and even Riku to focus on, especially since she was out of sight for some parts. Sora was active the entire way through. Roxas...didn't do anything until near the end. I went through why that was (his role being taken to give to another).

To be perfectly honest, I don't think we're going to come to similar terms on this. We're entirely on different pages, based on whether we like or did not like Days and/or Xion. So it's either we agree to disagree, or continue it elsewhere, that's fine. I'll leave that to your hands.
 
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The_Echo

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"why can I wield the keyblade" but I don't think that would've been interesting enough to carry a whole game. Most arguments Roxas and Axel had were about Xion and Roxas' stubbornness to realize the situation, so without Xion they'd probably argued about other things, but not in that intensity. Maybe Roxas would've been mad at Axel for not telling him what he does in CO but again, that wouldn't be enough to carry the game.
Days' plot already doesn't fill the game right, with huge gaps between events where literally nothing of value happens.
Maybe if they'd actually used the 15 other cast members for more than a combined handful of scenes, something cool might've happened and been able to fill those gaps

But alas...
 
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