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13 vessels of darkness



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EmaKey

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Hi guys. talking about the 13 vessels of darkness, we already know for sure 6 of them, even if 3 Not confirmed people can be added as well (such as Vanitas, Terranort and Riku replica ). I first thought of vexen , zexion, lexaeus and xaldin. I meant Why Not they are the creator of Org 13 along with xemnas and xigbar but they are Resurrected in Radiant Garden so they will Not return ( as enemies for sure) in KH 3. So what are your opinions about the other possible 7 members?
 

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I think Xehanort passed over the other revived members. That new scene in Recoded (2.5) Braig asks young Xehanort who they should take and the only one missing by DDD is Isa/Siax. But Nomura could be setting up a "surprise twist" I guess.
I do believe that most of the members will fall back on the time travel garbage of DDD.

I would also like to think that Terra is not a member. After reading this thread a couple days ago (thread: http://forums.khinsider.com/kingdom-hearts-iii/202692-think-still-relevant.html) I think it is possible Terra did not return with everyone because his heart is in Riku.
 

khspartan14

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Yay, I was hoping this thread would pop up again!

I think because of that secret ending for 2.5 Recoded Braig is going to be member, and also the Riku seen in Monstro in DDD. I don't think he's Repliku, since the Riku-Ansem already has Xehanort's heart in him, but who knows. And if Braig can be in O13 with Xigbar, I don't see why Saix and Isa both couldn't be in it.
 

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First the confirmed darknesses
1. Isa or saix
2.ansem sod
3.xemnas
4.xigbar(the nobody)
5.YX
Now for the rest i dont think there are a lot of candidates since YX brought with him versions of xehanort from the past and there is none with the needed characteristics to qualify as one except :
6.vanitas , he is an obvious choise .Also given that ven is frail and fragile or he cant even exist without soras heart
Its pretty much confirmed he will need to merge with his darkness again to be whole.That said , I think he is not going to be from the past.
Next is MX(but for the sake of this theory in his terranort version) so:
7.terranort he is one of three possible scenarios.
We have seen ansem project himself from riku so why wouldnt xehanort be able to do the same with terra?
8. The empty place normally destined for riku and then sora.Its probably the biggest mystery out of all the darknesses.For all we know he could be someone completely new(maybe ephemera??) or even .....BABY XEHANORT!!!! :p
So that leaves us 5 more.5 important persons that have been hinted in at E3 as lost masters.
And if u clearly think about it the clues are all there
we knew since kh1 their desire for light brought darkness to the world.We know now from kh chi that rival unions gathered light for their selfish reasons.Also im positive ive read that some dungeon in daybreak town is hypothesised to lead in the clocktower where they were seen talking to an unknown hooded figure.
The 5 foretellers fill up the 5 missing spots.
Its them that say in the begining of chi to watch for the seekers of darkness masked as guardians of light, while blaming one another.They all have desire for light and an eye of darkness on their keyblades.

Still this is just a theory .
 

khspartan14

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First the confirmed darknesses
1. Isa or saix
2.ansem sod
3.xemnas
4.xigbar(the nobody)
5.YX
Now for the rest i dont think there are a lot of candidates since YX brought with him versions of xehanort from the past and there is none with the needed characteristics to qualify as one except :
6.vanitas , he is an obvious choise .Also given that ven is frail and fragile or he cant even exist without soras heart
Its pretty much confirmed he will need to merge with his darkness again to be whole.That said , I think he is not going to be from the past.
Next is MX(but for the sake of this theory in his terranort version) so:
7.terranort he is one of three possible scenarios.
We have seen ansem project himself from riku so why wouldnt xehanort be able to do the same with terra?
8. The empty place normally destined for riku and then sora.Its probably the biggest mystery out of all the darknesses.For all we know he could be someone completely new(maybe ephemera??) or even .....BABY XEHANORT!!!! :p
So that leaves us 5 more.5 important persons that have been hinted in at E3 as lost masters.
And if u clearly think about it the clues are all there
we knew since kh1 their desire for light brought darkness to the world.We know now from kh chi that rival unions gathered light for their selfish reasons.Also im positive ive read that some dungeon in daybreak town is hypothesised to lead in the clocktower where they were seen talking to an unknown hooded figure.
The 5 foretellers fill up the 5 missing spots.
Its them that say in the begining of chi to watch for the seekers of darkness masked as guardians of light, while blaming one another.They all have desire for light and an eye of darkness on their keyblades.

Still this is just a theory .

Isn't old man MX confirmed, I mean he was in the highest chair during the ending of DDD? And I actually don't think he could put his heart in Vanitas could he? It's just darkness, but maybe it would balance out with a piece of Xehanort's light.
And goodness I have no clue what's going on over in KHchi, hopefully that GameTrailer video khinsider will inform me what's happening.
 

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I think Xehanort passed over the other revived members. That new scene in Recoded (2.5) Braig asks young Xehanort who they should take and the only one missing by DDD is Isa/Siax. But Nomura could be setting up a "surprise twist" I guess.
I do believe that most of the members will fall back on the time travel garbage of DDD.

I would also like to think that Terra is not a member. After reading this thread a couple days ago (thread: http://forums.khinsider.com/kingdom-hearts-iii/202692-think-still-relevant.html) I think it is possible Terra did not return with everyone because his heart is in Riku.

But MX already said that Terra belongs to him
 

kreezy64

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I think Vanitas will definitely be in the New Org, he is a good fit, ruthless as fuck. He has yellow eyes, which should be the obvious indicator that he has been seeded, especially since now we know that yellow eyes doesn't just mean they are evil, but that MX's influence is there. Aside from that, which I'm sure people know this too, but when replaying BBS I noticed that Vanitas' battle stance is also the same as MX. Third example I guess is when they come to the keyblade graveyard and he just fazes out of MX and walks beside him.

I always thought that weird fazing thing that some characters can do (most notably MX, Braig, Xigbar) is also a key in pointing out a Nort
 

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But MX already said that Terra belongs to him

The guy in the quote has a quote from another member:
I said that Master Sora and Ventus belong to him and that they needed three more Guardians of Light NOT because both would become vessels for Master Xehanort BUT because Sora was going to become a vessel and Ventus heart would be trapped, if not destroyed, making impossible for Ventus to wake up as his heart is inside Sora and if that'd happen they would need three more Guardians besides Sora and Ventus.

I didn't mean to say that Ventus was going to become a vessel. As Gram and Sephiroth0812 said that's just impossible.

Mickey counted TAV, himself, Sora and Riku and Xehanort names no names when he says he owns two on his list. Just a fun theory to read into.
It just makes sense to me since Terra didn't appear. The heart and body have to be free for someone to revive don't they? If Terra's heart is still trapped in Riku then answer found.

It seems stupid to hide Terra if he is for sure a Xehanort.
 

Sephiroth0812

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It seems stupid to hide Terra if he is for sure a Xehanort.

It's not stupid when you want to deliberately create exactly this theorizing and debating that is taking place here right now:
DDD Ultimania said:
Q: Who are the thirteen researchers of darkness?
A: Thirteen seekers of darkness that share a consciousness and heart with Master Xehanort, serving as raw material for the X-Blade. In this game, they failed in their attempts to make Sora the 13th of their ranks, but who's to become the 13th in his stead? And who are the six whose identities have not been revealed?
Q: What happened to Terra's heart and body?
A: In this game, Master Xehanort does not appear in the form of Terra-Xehanort when he transferred his heart, but as the old man he was before he took control of Terra's body. During the revival, what happened to Terra's body, and Terra's heart that was in opposition to Xehanort's control? In Kingdom Hearts, Birth by Sleep, it is to be considered that it was thought the whereabouts of the heart of Terra's master, Eraqus rested within his body.
Q: What happens to Lea hereafter now that he has become a Keyblade wielder?
A: Lea, having returned to his human form, chosen by the Keyblade. Does him getting a Keyblade have anything to do with his best friend Roxas? And is there a possibility that Lea's become one of the protectors of Light?
Q: Who are the seven protectors of light?
A: The current whereabouts of Terra, Aqua, and Ventus, who are to become part of the seven protectors of light in opposition to the thirteen seekers of darkness (with the exception of their 13th member), are currently unknown. Can they return to Sora? Who is the last member?
Q: When do Riku and Terra meet again?
A: In Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep, Terra made a promise to Riku, "anyway, when you reach me, let's teach the world the power to protect the ones we love, and the truly spacious world we live in", in case he should ever succeed him. It appears Riku has remembered this promise, but when will the two ever meet again?
Q. The decisions about Xehanort and revivals from sleep.
Not counting Terra and his friends, there are Roxas, Namine and Xion as well, all lying in sleep as they wait for their sadness to be mended. If they wake up, they'll come to Sora's aid, right? Surely they'll put an end to their long-lasting battle with Xehanort the next time.... won't they?!

I've quoted the whole thing this time to show that everything regarding both the seven GoL as well as the Thirteen darknesses (except MX, Ansem, Xemnas, Xigbar and YX which were shown) is deliberately left up in the air for people to speculate on.

Then there's also to keep in mind that theoretically, due to DDD's time travel mumbo-jumbo, Terra (or at least a version of him) could be a member of both sides eventually.
It is not even sure that the composition of the seven and the thirteen will remain the same throughout the entirety of KH III itself.
In the end, it isn't even that much important who is one of the seven and the thirteen as the only purpose of these twenty is to have a clash with each other in order to bring the X-blade back into existence.
This single clash may only be the penultimate battle or possibly not even a part of the real series of final battles at all, with the true final battles being something entirely different.
 

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The guy in the quote has a quote from another member:


Mickey counted TAV, himself, Sora and Riku and Xehanort names no names when he says he owns two on his list. Just a fun theory to read into.
It just makes sense to me since Terra didn't appear. The heart and body have to be free for someone to revive don't they? If Terra's heart is still trapped in Riku then answer found.

It seems stupid to hide Terra if he is for sure a Xehanort.

I actually agree with Sephiroth
Terra is one of the darknesses

MX clearly said "Yes, but two of them belong to me now". One of them stating the obvious...hello Sora? He was going to become a vessel at that point and the other one that makes the most logical sense is Terra for obvious reasons.
 

Sephiroth0812

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I actually agree with Sephiroth
Terra is one of the darknesses

MX clearly said "Yes, but two of them belong to me now". One of them stating the obvious...hello Sora? He was going to become a vessel at that point and the other one that makes the most logical sense is Terra for obvious reasons.

Since "belonging to MX" speaks strictly in the terms of vessels, aka bodies, which are under MX's control the second one being Terra definitely makes the most logical sense.
He even calls out the "feckless youth who became my new vessel." word for word in the same scene.
Sometime earlier, Young Xehanort says to Riku "Hands off my new vessel." in nearly the same vein.
 

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Sorry but I still find hiding Terra stupid if it is for certain he is still there.
He was referring to BBS in that line. In BBS he became a vessel. Plus when Xehanort said it he was referring to the fates of TAV in the past tense. When you say "became" it is in past tense.

You guys aren't giving me anything concrete. Why say it is meant to cause theorizing then not entertain the possibility?
The thread I read even had a Nomura quote thing saying it is possible something remained in Riku and you just have quotes and said yourself it is left unanswered. That leaves several possibilities open.

You can't say it is left ambiguous and then say one outcome is the only possible one.
 
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Sephiroth0812

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Sorry but I still find hiding Terra stupid if it is for certain he is still there.
He was referring to BBS in that line. In BBS he became a vessel. Plus when Xehanort said it he was referring to the fates of TAV in the past tense. When you say "became" it is in past tense.

You guys aren't giving me anything concrete. Why say it is meant to cause theorizing then not entertain the possibility?
The thread I read even had a Nomura quote thing saying it is possible something remained in Riku and you just have quotes and said yourself it is left unanswered. That leaves several possibilities open.

You can't say it is left ambiguous and then say one outcome is the only possible one.

It isn't certain as in that it is outright confirmed, we also do not know in which form any possible Seeker of Darkness "Terra" may be up there.
Of course he was referring to BBS in that line, but we have no hints or incentive that anything changed the fact that Terra's body is still a vessel.
The only hints we do have is that Terra's body is no longer used as Xehanort's main host because he was restored in his old "Master Xehanort" form, what is beyond that we do not know except some snippets from the talk between him and Riku/Mickey at the end of DDD.

From the ones listed by Mickey Terra is the only one to make logical sense other than Sora because we know the whereabouts of the bodies of all the others.
Mickey and Riku are fine and using their bodies, Aqua is also using her own body while traversing the Realm of Darkness while Ventus' body is still safe and sound in the chamber at Castle Oblivion as shown at the end of DDD.
Thus none of those can be referred to as "belonging to Xehanort" because none of these bodies can be used by him.
That Ventus' heart is located inside Sora's and if Sora's heart would fall to darkness it would be trapped with him would only make Ventus unavailable as a Guardian of Light, which means that he would be on no side at all.
Xehanort however was counting people down Mickey can't use because he already has them, not people that would be completely unavailable for both sides.

We didn't say that one outcome is the only possible one but that this outcome is the one that makes the most logical sense from the knowledge we do have.

Furthermore, even if Riku would have Terra's heart (which we have no real hints for by the way) it would not prevent Xehanort from using Terra's body as a vessel. In fact, one could even make the argument that Xemnas was already Xehanort using Terra's body without interference from Terra.
For Xehanort it would be even easier if Terra's heart was out of the picture because then he could control the body without any inner resistance.
 

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It isn't certain as in that it is outright confirmed, we also do not know in which form any possible Seeker of Darkness "Terra" may be up there.
Of course he was referring to BBS in that line, but we have no hints or incentive that anything changed the fact that Terra's body is still a vessel.
The only hints we do have is that Terra's body is no longer used as Xehanort's main host because he was restored in his old "Master Xehanort" form, what is beyond that we do not know except some snippets from the talk between him and Riku/Mickey at the end of DDD.

From the ones listed by Mickey Terra is the only one to make logical sense other than Sora because we know the whereabouts of the bodies of all the others.
Mickey and Riku are fine and using their bodies, Aqua is also using her own body while traversing the Realm of Darkness while Ventus' body is still safe and sound in the chamber at Castle Oblivion as shown at the end of DDD.
Thus none of those can be referred to as "belonging to Xehanort" because none of these bodies can be used by him.
That Ventus' heart is located inside Sora's and if Sora's heart would fall to darkness it would be trapped with him would only make Ventus unavailable as a Guardian of Light, which means that he would be on no side at all.
Xehanort however was counting people down Mickey can't use because he already has them, not people that would be completely unavailable for both sides.

We didn't say that one outcome is the only possible one but that this outcome is the one that makes the most logical sense from the knowledge we do have.

Furthermore, even if Riku would have Terra's heart (which we have no real hints for by the way) it would not prevent Xehanort from using Terra's body as a vessel. In fact, one could even make the argument that Xemnas was already Xehanort using Terra's body without interference from Terra.
For Xehanort it would be even easier if Terra's heart was out of the picture because then he could control the body without any inner resistance.
Ugh. All this is reminding me why I quit following details. I'll be sure not to do so again.

The thing about that is there is no incentive he still is. Those quotes pointing out Terra's mysterious location make it so that there is no incentive either way. I do not think Nomura would hide Terra if it was just as simple as him being one of Xehanort's hoodies in a chair.
Your the one I saw point out Nomura likes "twists" in a thread a week or so ago. Terra being a Xehanort isn't much of a twist.

Your applying logic to a series that throws it out the window on a regular basis?

You say that but your doing your best to change my mind and think there is only your outcome.

From what you told me there is no real hint as to where Terra is at all.

Unless you can give something that actually makes your outcome right over the other three I've seen then you may as well agree to disagree.
With that I am gonna drop out of the discussion. All the what ifs and ambiguity is giving me headache. Reminds me why I quit worrying about such details.
 
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Sephiroth0812

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Ugh. All this is reminding me why I quit following details. I'll be sure not to do so again.

The thing about that is there is no incentive he still is. Those quotes pointing out Terra's mysterious location make it so that there is no incentive either way. I do not think Nomura would hide Terra if it was just as simple as him being one of Xehanort's hoodies in a chair.
Your the one I saw point out Nomura likes "twists" in a thread a week or so ago. Terra being a Xehanort isn't much of a twist.

Your applying logic to a series that throws it out the window on a regular basis?

You don't know that. Xehanort pointed out people on Mickey's list that are unavailable for guardians. Any implication otherwise I do not see.

You say that but your doing your best to change my mind and think there is only your outcome.

From what you told me there is no real hints where Terra is at all. His body, maybe but I see nothing of your posts being foolproof. It doesn't help you point out yourself it is all left ambiguous.
I just thought it was a good theory to explain why Terra wasn't shown. What happened to his body wasn't much of my focus. I just know that there is no Terra if his heart is somewhere.

Unless you can give something that actually makes your outcome right over the other three I've seen then you may as well agree to disagree. To me their all possibilities and I see no point in discussing it more when I'm the only one accepting other possible outcomes.
But no disrespect or anything. You obviously still care enough to delve into it. But me? No. I am reminded that the only way I can still enjoy this mess of a story is to be casual about it. So I am going to drop out of this discussion now.

The details can often help to point out the probability of several different theories and possibilities though.

Nomura is certainly capable of doing just that to throw us off course or, more simply, hide from us which version of Terra is sitting among the new Organisation, if he still has Eraqus' heart within him etc. etc., the possibilities are many even when not discounting him from being one of the seekers.
Yes, Nomura likes to make things "surprising" as he himself put it in an interview with Famitsu. This however also includes leaving some things vague that some savvy fans can already predict from other surrounding details regardless.

Not only me, lol, this was one of the very first things that became wildly theorized once the English version of DDD was out. The "logic" comes purely from what we know of the actual locations of the other characters in question as well as what we see during DDD, namely that MX already has twelve vessels sitting right there, only the thirteenth being missing which was first intended to be Riku, then Roxas, then Sora.

Xehanort speaks about "belonging to him" which is already a pretty strong implication. Combine that with the facts/details that a) twelve seats are already filled and b) we know about the whereabouts of the other characters already you can arrive at the conclusion that the only odd one of the list is Terra.

There seems to be a misunderstanding though as I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, but to point out why Xehanort not meaning Terra is less likely due to what the story circumstances tell us.

That is correct, I also never claimed this one as right, but as the more probable one based on the little stuff we do know and can deduce from other details.

Ok, to make this somewhat more interesting though, how about we actually turn the whole thing around and approach it from the other side?
So, what actually are the hints or incentives that could make us believe Terra is not under Xehanort's control anymore other than because he wasn't shown.
Isa/Saix also wasn't shown until the very end, so it's entirely possible it is done simply for drama purposes (like revealing him only when Aqua and/or Ven are around in KH III, just like with Lea and Isa in DDD).
What are even the possible other outcomes then?
If Terra isn't the one Xehanort has, who could he mean? All other characters are accounted for as we know the whereabouts of their bodies, not to mention that Xehanort already has twelve vessels.
One possibility would for example be that the "Terra" Xehanort controls is actually the Terra-Xehanort time travelled from BBS, that would mean we could eventually get a Terra on both sides just like we could get a Riku on both sides if Xehanort decides to use the dark Riku from KH 1 (where he was at his worst) and pulls another time travel stunt.

I delve only so far in it because I like these sorts of puzzle games, lol, I do certainly not treat any of this as a priority manner. *ggg*
 

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The details can often help to point out the probability of several different theories and possibilities though.

Nomura is certainly capable of doing just that to throw us off course or, more simply, hide from us which version of Terra is sitting among the new Organisation, if he still has Eraqus' heart within him etc. etc., the possibilities are many even when not discounting him from being one of the seekers.
Yes, Nomura likes to make things "surprising" as he himself put it in an interview with Famitsu. This however also includes leaving some things vague that some savvy fans can already predict from other surrounding details regardless.

Xehanort speaks about "belonging to him" which is already a pretty strong implication. Combine that with the facts/details that a) twelve seats are already filled and b) we know about the whereabouts of the other characters already you can arrive at the conclusion that the only odd one of the list is Terra.

There seems to be a misunderstanding though as I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, but to point out why Xehanort not meaning Terra is less likely due to what the story circumstances tell us.

That is correct, I also never claimed this one as right, but as the more probable one based on the little stuff we do know and can deduce from other details.

Ok, to make this somewhat more interesting though, how about we actually turn the whole thing around and approach it from the other side?
So, what actually are the hints or incentives that could make us believe Terra is not under Xehanort's control anymore other than because he wasn't shown.
Isa/Saix also wasn't shown until the very end, so it's entirely possible it is done simply for drama purposes (like revealing him only when Aqua and/or Ven are around in KH III, just like with Lea and Isa in DDD).
What are even the possible other outcomes then?
If Terra isn't the one Xehanort has, who could he mean? All other characters are accounted for as we know the whereabouts of their bodies, not to mention that Xehanort already has twelve vessels.
One possibility would for example be that the "Terra" Xehanort controls is actually the Terra-Xehanort time travelled from BBS, that would mean we could eventually get a Terra on both sides just like we could get a Riku on both sides if Xehanort decides to use the dark Riku from KH 1 (where he was at his worst) and pulls another time travel stunt
Reasons why thinking about it all is giving me a headache. Bowing out of the discussion after this reply.

What is strong incentive is a matter of opinion.

Trying to point out something as less likely is trying to sway the subject your addressing. Just a round about way of trying to sway my opinion.
Not a bad thing in of itself but it isn't going to work when you keep pointing out to me it is ambiguous. If you find your own stance ambiguous I have no reason to take your idea over the other four I have seen.

Then what about the other theories I have seen? I have come across four so far.
1.) Xehanort is still using Terra's body BUT is altering it like Ansem did Riku.
2.) Your theory.
3.) The notion Terra is in Riku explaining why Xehanort seemingly returned alone. This only went as far as Terra's heart being in Riku though. The theory didn't touch on subject of body.
4.) Xehanort did return with Terra but abandoned him willingly to increase seat count.

I done tried looking form another angle and ended up in this discussion with you. Now I am not sure if I even want to continue. I'll reply but I can't say I still have much interest. (and I feel kinda bad for derailing the persons thread)
Hmm...what I remember of the thread I saw is....well I linkd it once but no one read it so here: http://forums.khinsider.com/kingdom-hearts-iii/202692-think-still-relevant.html I think someone added on with that scene of Ansem's guardian reaching out to Riku. I do not see anything saying it is not possible so there is no incentive saying no even if you think there is no incentive saying yes.
I already listed the four outcomes I saw the day before yesterday.
I already listed the others he could mean twice. He says two on Mickey's list belong to him but it is not specified how. For Sora he meant as a vessel but Terra's ambiguous condition and Ven's presence in Sora leaves it open I thought?
 
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Sephiroth0812

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Reasons why thinking about it all is giving me a headache. Bowing out of the discussion after this reply.

What is strong incentive is a matter of opinion.

Trying to point out something as less likely is trying to sway the subject your addressing. Just a round about way of trying to sway my opinion.
Not a bad thing in of itself but it isn't going to work when you keep pointing out to me it is ambiguous. If you find your own stance ambiguous I have no reason to take your idea over the other four I have seen.

Then what about the other theories I have seen? I have come across four so far.
1.) Xehanort is still using Terra's body BUT is altering it like Ansem did Riku.
2.) Your theory.
3.) The notion Terra is in Riku explaining why Xehanort seemingly returned alone. This only went as far as Terra's heart being in Riku though. The theory didn't touch on subject of body.
4.) Xehanort did return with Terra but abandoned him willingly to increase seat count.

I done tried looking form another angle and ended up in this discussion with you. Now I am not sure if I even want to continue. I'll reply but I can't say I still have much interest. (and I feel kinda bad for derailing the persons thread)
Hmm...what I remember of the thread I saw is....well I linkd it once but no one read it so here: http://forums.khinsider.com/kingdom-hearts-iii/202692-think-still-relevant.html I think someone added on with that scene of Ansem's guardian reaching out to Riku. I do not see anything saying it is not possible so there is no incentive saying no even if you think there is no incentive saying yes.
I already listed the four outcomes I saw the day before yesterday.
I already listed the others he could mean twice. He says two on Mickey's list belong to him but it is not specified how. For Sora he meant as a vessel but Terra's ambiguous condition and Ven's presence in Sora leaves it open I thought?

I'm far from wanting to make you feel uncomfortable, lol, but the one coming might either clear up some things for you or cause even more WTF, so I'll warn about it in advance.

There is this thing called the Memorial Ultimania which was released alongside 2.5 HD Remix in Japan (sadly these books never leave Japan though) which has a huge pile of facts and knowledge about the whole series so far, including hearts, worlds, characters etc.
The most important thing for this topic however is the "Xehanort Experience Record" which tracks all forms and movements of "The Xehanorts" so far in the series.
Here's the whole thing if there's interest: Xehanort Experience Record
Let's see if we can bring some more light into this with its help.

It seems more to me that we consider different things to be ambigious due to differing interpretations of offered material, but that's completely ok.
By the way, as I do not to adorn myself with borrowed plumes, I have to point out that the variant I am mostly advocating here wasn't really brought forth by me originally but another member.
It's simply the one I find to be most probable so far.

Now getting on to the other theories.

The 1st one can be completely ruled out thanks to the Memorial Ultimania:
xOJ9BT6.png

Here it says that Young Xehanort witnessed the revival of MX's true body.

2nd has been already discussed.

3rd I guess speculates on that side note made in the BBS Ultimania as to why the Robed Figure appeared on Destiny Islands in KH 1, and Nomura entertained some speculation about Robed Figure/Ansem having some of Terra's memories. Of course this can be theorized further to Terra's complete heart as it was together with Xehanort's (the core of Ansem the Heartless) since BBS. This however would still not count out "Terra" as belonging to Xehanort for the same reason as in Theory 4, Xemnas was Terra's body and anything Xemnas may have developed (a Xehanort seed) could be used by Xehanort to control the body. That thread you linked even points this out, that if Terra is with Riku, his body would be even more easy to control for Xehanort, giving him one more vessel for sure.
Terra's heart being in Riku would then have the same meaning as Ventus' being in Sora as in both being irrelevant to the issue because Xehanort doesn't care about the hearts, he wants the bodies to pursue his plan.
Unlike with Ventus however, Xehanort would have the body to make a vessel out of, thus making him counting Terra in true.

4th actually has a very high possibility due to 1st being made impossible.
This reminds me of another thread that was made in this vein in which I didn't participate in, but had a much similar debate to what we have here with both stances present.
It addressed this subject by also counting in a possible newly grown "Xemnas"-heart which would be a Xehanort-seed by default. Xemnas' primary "asset" in the whole Xehanort/Terra/Eraqus mess was Terra's body, so anything that developed within Xemnas would remain inside Terra's body once recompletion kicks in and Xehanort's main heart returns to its true body.
There's also the possibility that when the Ansem/Xemnas split happened, Terra's heart actually stayed in its body (which would be Xemnas) where it belongs or was even left there on purpose while Ansem took only some memories with him. As Nomura points out, the way how memories, powers and hearts of Xehanort and Terra (possibly even Eraqus, as i.e. how would Xemnas be able to create the chamber of Repose in a similar layout to the chamber of awakening? Only Aqua and Eraqus know about the secret mechanism) were divided between Ansem and Xemnas are still a mystery, so the question as to where Terra's heart ultimatively ended up is indeed completely subject to debate.

This is also what I think is the core of the discrepancy we have here at hand, as the different parts of Terra may be located on different sides of the conflicting factions and a central part of saving him would be to gather all parts together to finally restore him for good without any Xehanort-influence.
After going through all four with the 1st being made impossible, I'd say that for me both 2nd and 4th would make the most sense.
3rd is also a possibility to keep in mind, although due to Xemnas originally being Terra's body, it would not change the meaning of Xehanort's claims that Terra "belongs to him" alongside Sora.
In the end it could even lead to a battle against Terra's controlled body in order to purge the Xehanort part and then put Terra's heart back there.

You technically aren't derailing the persons thread as it still pertains to the question of the 13 darknesses. If we would really count out Terra or any possible form of him, that would leave another spot among the thirteen open again.
You're speaking of the scene in DDD where Riku blocks the Guardian by raising his Keyblade?
I honestly never gave it that much of an importance as the Guardian could be simply reaching towards Riku in order to squash him like a bug with Riku just going "nope, want another piece of this?" by raising his Keyblade.
Riku recalling his early memory about meeting Terra can be seen as an indicator of Ansem truly having some of Terra's memories though which then resonate with Riku as suggested in that old BBS interview from Nomura.
See, and that's where I get the problem of understanding the reasoning. Why would Xehanort mean one of them as a vessel and the other not when he's counting them in the same sentence? What meaning would it have in-universe for Xehanort to make such a distinction?
If he meant Ven, Mickey and co. would not be three, but four Guardians short because no one knows about Terra's whereabouts as Yen Sid confirms during the Re: Coded secret ending, the only available Guardians would then be Aqua, Riku and Mickey himself as Ventus would be out of the picture completely for both sides.

We can however definitely leave things if you don't like picking things apart too much. ^__^
 
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EmaKey

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I know it's Crazy but.... What about Xion? I mean she is a replica Made by org 13 and, honestly, she had a Not so Big impact on the KH plot. Maybe she will be one of them. I don't know, but i would like To.
 

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I just thought about all of this last night! And I was thinking about Riku in a black coat seen in Monstrous too. I don't know if mastet Xehanort is one or not. He could've just been brought there by time traveling or something. It just wouldn't make sense! MX was supposed to be gone. He transferred his heart into Terra. And that's true. He said Terra belonged to him. So he has to be in there. I just mentioned something like this on my last post! It's funny. But I don't want to write it again. And my tablet doesn't allow me to paste things on here. And if it does, then I haven't figured it out yet. All in good time I guess. Vanitas would be perfect. But I don't know how he'd get him. When Ven destroyed himself, didn't he and Vanitas's heart merge? And if so... Would that mean that Vanitas' is in SORA!? That can't be good. I think Ansem the wise said something to make me think about th one more. He talks about 4 people in Sora's heart. I'm talking about the scene of him and Riku in 3D.
I also don't think Xehanort chose the scientists in radiant garden. They have a different role in 3.
 

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I'm far from wanting to make you feel uncomfortable, lol, but the one coming might either clear up some things for you or cause even more WTF, so I'll warn about it in advance.

3rd is also a possibility to keep in mind, although due to Xemnas originally being Terra's body, it would not change the meaning of Xehanort's claims that Terra "belongs to him" alongside Sora.
In the end it could even lead to a battle against Terra's controlled body in order to purge the Xehanort part and then put Terra's heart back there.

You technically aren't derailing the persons thread as it still pertains to the question of the 13 darknesses.
Neither actually. All of that just makes me sigh in sadness at this series horrible handling of information. It is things like this that make me quit caring about the story at all. :frown:

I know it got sidetracked into it but I am more focused on his heart than body. Since the heart is the more important part and people can't return without it no matter where their body is right?
You pointing out Xemnas could have taken ownership of the body because he is partly Terra as well only makes Terra being in Riku seem more possible to me.
I also saw in one of the older threads, I think it was you, that it was mentioned Roxas, Xion and Namine also do not have bodies.
If that is the case wouldn't it be easier to just save Terra the same way they will those three?

You sure? I do not want to derail anybodies thread. :frown:
 
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