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  • Even though I barely know you, sorry to see you leave until 3D comes out.

    You're very smart on the series
    Could you remind me when Kanji Tatsumi made out with a boy, please? I cleared the game 100% and forgot about that. :|
    ok it went insane and it's 1 am here. We'll continue this tomorrow.
    Farewell, worthy adversary >:3
    Hey I have a question for you. Since you said you were leaving till KH3D comes out in NA, what if the forums go into another update or something, and your account gets deleted because of inactivity?

    Because I've heard a lot of people suffered with that from the 4.0 update.

    Just wondering.
    I think one of the biggest issues is that in BBS, you had only one protagonist, one party member. So even if TAV introduced themselves at least once per world, you only got one name mentioned as opposed to two to three. I wonder how it was in Japanese as there they could get away with it at least some of the time with "Sora-tachi" or "minna" or other such words that demand attention, like "look!" only while actually getting attention.
    And I do agree that the drama scenes in BBS were well written. I just despite how broken the game feels. It's like LoD-Badlands-Yen Sid's tower-RG-Keyblade Graveyard have one set of personalities for TAV whereas the Disney worlds have at times even contradicting personalities. It's extremely bad in Aqua's case where she bounces to being ready to fight Terra in DI after the last several worlds were basically "Terra can beat the Darkness, he's so grand! <3" o_oa


    I don't think it's fair to compare. To begin with Days was character-oriented so having Roxas learn something is essential. KH2 didn't work quite like that (and if so it failed miserably xD; ).
    Also, just because Nojima didn't put it in doesn't make it still his exclusive fault - Nomura didn't tell him to put it in, after all, indicating his own lack of concern in that regard.
    I kind of doubt the Sora-Riku BFF talk at the end was all Nojima's wish. Either Nomura specifically told him to put that in or we all own Nojima an apology for at least some of the hate. And it's like I keep saying - what DID matter WAS in KH2. Roxas's prologue, for instance, and SoRiku's conclusion. Those were important so they got in. Not the case with most things Kairi.


    I think that's going into higher territory, and I kind of doubt that Watanabe coming up with the X-Blade is similar to the process of what went down with Kanemaki.
    Nomura: hey, Wat.
    Watanabe: what, Nomy?
    Nomura: Come up with a plot device for BBS. I don't mind so long as it's epic.
    Watanabe: lol, k.
    I like to think some heavier debates went down there. Even if Watanabe threw a bone, Nomura bit it and made it into something bigger (kind of like all the theorizes behind Xion's black hair and the likely relations to the Oblivion due to Riku relations which might end up leading to Vanitas relations after all).
    But my point holds in the sense that it's Nomura's fault too. And Kairi being a neglected element, specifically her relationship with Riku, isn't anything new. :\ so it's hard for me to point fingers at people NOW when way I see it, if Xion's the girl that got Roxas to leave the Organization (and I talked to a friend of mine, going by him there were talks of a 14th member as early on as KH2. I'm interrogating him about the details), then Kairi's "the girl with Sora and Riku and the romantic interest". Only that leaves her noticably less to do.
    *w* and I'm quitting my job on Sunday so I'll have the time to play it <3
    Even though it's the end of the semester *cough* xD;


    I'm pretty sure the fighting style, the Soul-Eater, and Sora SAYING it was Riku on more than one occasion kind of sealed the deal >_>;;;


    You're talking to one of the people who're ready to declare Watanabe as "the god who failed" post BBS.
    Though I think it's really Nomura's fault and not the scenario writers. I mean, CoM wasn't all that grand plot and content wise. What WAS grand about it? The characters, the interactions, and the SoNami heart-bleed. Even the Org interactions though were plot oriented, so like I said - unless Riku and Kairi's interaction mattered, no reason why it should be shown on-screen. And that, just like not putting in a lot of the stuff that got in the FM+ and realizing thanks to the novels he basically screwed KH2 up, is Nomura's fault.
    Way I see it, the scenario writers choose HOW to display stuff, less WHAT. And it doesn't matter if it's even Watanabe writing it - if Nomura didn't tell him to put in a Riku-Kairi scene, he wouldn't put it in.
    The only ones who do that are the gameplay developers who gave us Sora and Riku's limit technique which was retconned into proper canonity in BBS thanks to BladeCharge and Wingblade (seriously. depending on which stage in the Limit you're in, you either get Riku using BladeCharge which indicates, imo, that he's Master level like Terra and Aqua, and Sora then brings out the glowing swords like Ven's Wingblade), and the Lingering Sentiment.

    Part of why post Days I'm somewhat less against Nojima in KH2. He might've had more content to put into the Disney worlds, but Nomura gave him none, so he had little to work with beyond the Disney movies. Not saying he was that great, mind, just that not all of it was his fault.
    That depends really on which part of the fandom you talk to. Most of the people in the FoKH will abide by this, but quite a few people don't.
    They're the ones reading my fics, durrr xD;;;;

    *ignores the spoilers* soz ;P


    Gods, yes. I want to see their interaction at all seeing how, for better or worse, Terra ruined Riku's life - and in more than one way. XD;;; I can see Terra guilt tripping and Riku being *shrug*


    This is actually one of the best examples to prove my point.
    Kairi and Riku met. Namine was there to boot. RIKU WAS IN FREAKING XEHANORT'S HEARTLESS FORM, THE FREAKY PEDO WHO WANTED TO DO NASTY THINGS TO KAIRI IN KH1 AND RIKU STOPPED HIM FROM DOING. Then this blonde Kairi-lookalike who made Light come out of their hands when they touched said it was Riku.
    Why, besides complete and utter lack of concern and reason to bother with their friendship, will they fade-out of that scene when those two interact? Kairi coming to terms with Riku's appearance (and yet still thinks he and Sora were on a fun adventure... *sigh*); Riku agreeing to stay despite obviously not wanting Sora to see him like that; what the hell happened to Namine.
    It didn't matter to them, in the least. Something that when you think about it is ridiculously hazardous to the grander scheme of things - unless, of course, it'll eternally be Sora-Riku & Sora-Kairi, at least until they decide to change it and shove all of those flashbacks into the game where it'll start mattering.
    Like I said, I started my "embargo" post Days. I mean sure the game didn't have all that much plot to it but I did manage to figure out Xion's plot basically in its entirety. The only thing I didn't piece together was that the type of Vexen-experiment she was was a Replica. So even in more plot-filled games like BBS I fear I might get a pretty damn good idea of things, so I'm staying away from it.
    And it's ok. 1) knew about it. 2) ...it's the theme. It says, basically, nothing xD;;; so it's all good. Thanks for understanding C:


    I agree. KH for better or worse is the characters to me. The plot can make zero sense and get weird and freakish and people say it wasn't like that before because they understand that plot and ranted about it in-length for years now. They came to terms with it. But the fact remains that freaky Heart-beings that possess children and change what they look like before kicking them out of their own body, Heart-only existences, complete and utter existential mess-ups that also involve Memory issues, shape-shifting, mind eating Replicas, and yes, even physical manifestations of one's Darkness and Light - all of it was, for better or worse, introduced before or even spelled out. Even Hearts moving between vessels in various degrees of activity (XH vs. Kairi, for instance). So why the hell should I care that we now have a transgender Replica, even MORE lookalikes and pedo old men? Nothing truly new here. So so long as I get my Riku and Sora dosages (my fondness of the pairing aside, they're my favorite characters that are likely to live to see the next saga) I'm good.
    So ending it with the trio they bothered introducing and focusing on (as much as they 'focused' on Kairi...) coming back home would've been, indeed, a good place to end it at.


    I really don't know about that. I mean, it's not like they didn't even try - it's like they're trying not to go the distance. Even in BBS, after an entire game in which TAV were being torn apart because they CARED about each other, you get Blank Points and it's Sora and Riku, and Sora and Kairi again. Never Riku and Kairi, even there.
    This goes way, waaay beyond her not being playable or a fighter like Aqua and Xion were. I mean, TAV split up at the very beginning and RAX had numerous missions where they weren't together so being a "party member" never played a role. Hell, likewise for Sora and Riku - I don't need Riku as a party member to know he and Sora care about each other - their being party members was the pinnacle of that, not the essence.
    And Namine was a good example of how one can and does form a trio without doing things 'that way'. It's just that after six installments they still prefer to keep it Sora-Riku & Sora-Kairi with the made-up Memories Namine created being the closest we'll ever get to seeing Riku-Kairi. And even then you remember that there was ANOTHER Girl and Kairi used to be there from the get-go, Xion ate the Kairi Memories so it's not really like Namine replaced her, and that the Promise memory was most likely a Sora-Riku Memory so where's Kairi in this mess, anyway?
    My point is that I don't buy that they couldn't; they didn't. And as much as people whine about not wanting Kairi to be the Light's KH1-Riku because it's unoriginal, it's about one of the only ways in which she can be used right at this point without creating something that feels unnatural and detached (one of the reasons why I DO somehow accept Blank Points - it adds up with the rest of the series as far as Riku-Kairi is concerned).
    About the only other option will be to have Riku and Kairi have a KH2-SoRiku chat but I really don't think they'll go there unless they have, like a painfully good reason to do so - PLOT WISE. As in "somehow tie in to Xion's Memories inside Riku" or something along those lines since unlike Sora-Kairi that seems to be one hell of a Black Hole plot device instrument, Riku-Kairi doesn't play a role and can be easily explained by Riku-Sora issues instead. It's redundant to invest in it at this point. :\

    D: and I just might XD;
    Holy- are we actually agreeing on stuff? And will you join the SoRiku fc? Unless you're already a member? xD

    It was about the only acceptable ending. KH2 didn't leave enough for future installments, part of why they had to add that bit with the letter at the end. Setting aside Nomura's making the story up as he goes and seemingly having nothing left to foreshadow at that part, KH2 was about bringing closure to Sora and Riku's given conflict - Riku's descent into Darkness, Sora's status as "the Hero of Light", and how the two can patch things up despite it all and have their friendship stand the test of time. They couldn't have pulled any fancy shmancy plot issues and they couldn't have just left it with what they had before in TWTNW - if only because of the company. Yes, even Kairi (which relates again to what a lot of people, myself naturally included, think - unlike TAV which works well with a female despite the game telling us how they fell apart, and AkuRoku who - at least to those who didn't read the novels - didn't really feel explained in KH2 so in a sense they needed their 'third' - SoRiku can and do work well as a duo. AkuRoku's debatable quality as a duo aside, I don't think anyone can deny that Sora and Riku and Riku and Sora can manage well enough on their own. Hell, way I see it, the problems started once more people came along...). They couldn't have been honest enough with each other until it was all over and everyone else went away.
    Even in the post-credits scene - it's Sora and Riku who have the mooshy "the Light's in your Heart" scene and Kairi runs in with the bottle, acting out her role of eternal plot device.

    With the basic concept of Sora chasing Riku with the ocasional secondary objective of also rescuing Kairi and the universe, KH2 couldn't have ended in any other way sans a sugar-coma-inducing, fluffy, horribly sappish and crude BFF moment between the two.





    I hope I'm living up to your expectations of "detailed and thorough"? And just a side note, post-Days I'm staying the hell away from ANYTHING so even that 'trust' issue I know by accident. Please keep info about anything not yet released in English away from me.
    In that sense Sora/Riku is easy, especially in KH1. As I often say, the game itself and its "coincidental timing" of events really paint a nice picture at times that everything and anything about KH1 can be drawn back to Sora and Riku's relationship, their friendship and jealousy issues.
    I mean, Monstro. You can tell me until you're blue in the face that Riku really cared about Kairi and was angry with Sora for not caring enough about Kairi. The fact remains that Riku accused Sora of choosing a puppet over him. Even if you don't want to over-analyse it and say the puppet's actually Kairi (as the two previous times being DI and TT where they met, Sora asked about Kairi and Riku even spoke about it in Neverland) Riku's spelling it out, loud and clear - he has one huge amount of issues that all center Sora and Sora's treatment of Riku. Sora on his end is driven by his conscious and his regards for Riku, not wanting his friend to really do the wrong thing (it's not until HB when Riku went too far that Sora cracked and even then he never really seems to have given up on Riku).
    Kairi doesn't even play a role, leaving only the boys and their relationship to shine through.
    To be precise - it's the Kairi vs Namine essay xD; and I'm not sure if it's more anti-Kairi or pro-Namine.
    Regardless.
    Nope, can't say I know anything of that sort. Was asked to write one a couple of times, but never got to it xD;
    Say HeartSeams? About that thought about trailers being spoilerish, I just remembered something:

    When I was younger and I bought KH2, I remember during the beginning, seeing the man in the black coat reveal himself and say Ansem. I was shocked. The main baddie from KH1, alive?! But after watching the scene of the fight between him and Roxas, it was clear it was Riku.

    What I'm trying to say here is:

    I didn't watch squat of a trailer, and the only thing I saw was a screenshot of the Twilight Thorn (whom I thought was a white Guard Armor back then xD). So, as you say, trailers ruin the experience.
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