Screenshots From KH3 And KH3: RE MIND That Prove, Beyond Doubt, That Kairi And the Princesses of Heart Possess Darkness

[palizinhas]

DDD Glossary:

Seven Princesses
Another name for the princesses of heart: the only seven people in the world whose hearts are pure light.

No reason for a glossary written to explain the lore to the players to be lying.

 

[Lacan Valeth]

Astertide:
Just because Kairi possesses darkness doesn't mean that her light has no power. I'm arguing that *both* Kairi's light and darkness have special skills and strengths that other hearts don't have. See the Demon Tides and the Lich once more.

This is how Kairi was able to turn Sora back into a human - though that was partially Sora himself because Kairi is his brightest light in the deepest darkness, so her love and warmth gave him the determination to fight off the darkness. As Sora himself says in KINGDOM HEARTS III, "I feel strong with you, Kairi." Kairi, more than anyone else, is Sora's strength.

Kairi kept Sora from fading away for similar reasons in KINGDOM HEARTS III. Through her skills and strength over light, her belief in Sora and her love for him, and Sora's belief in Kairi and his love for her.

Though, in this situation, that Kairi created the Demon Tide and the Lich might have been part of it. Since Kairi created them both, they're not going to put Sora, or Kairi herself, in *as* much danger as the others, though they are going to put them both in danger.

And Princesses of Heart are different from others because they're willing to think with their hearts, and choose to do so, to degrees most people don't choose to be willing to and don't choose to do. The Princesses of Heart let themselves experience emotion in their purest capacities, both light and darkness, while most people refuse to live or communicate from the heart, to the heart, so their light and darkness are less developed.

Palizinhas:
That line from the Glossary doesn't say, anywhere, that the Princesses of Heart don't have any darkness, just that they're pure.

And even if it did, it wouldn't matter. The Glossary entry is just general, so anything the characters say or do overrides it right away.

People > dictionary definitions.

Paul

"It seems your hearts have led you to obliteration. I guess it doesn't pay to be too loyal to one's heart."-Xemnas
KINGDOM HEARTS II

 

[KeybladeLordSora]

What part of "PURE LIGHT" don't you get?!

Pure means untainted, free from any contamination!

If Kairi and the Princesses had darkness, they wouldn't be pure lights! If Kairi had darkness, SHE WOULD'VE TURNED INTO A HEARTLESS

But she didn't! Why? BECAUSE SHE HAS A PURE HEART WITH NO DARKNESS IN IT! This has literally been established ever since KH1!!!

 

[Lacan Valeth]

KeybladeLordSora:
You're taking 'pure' too literally. Given the context, 'pure' is being used figuratively. Sora and Ven *both directly say that* Vanitas is free to choose light or darkness, as is anyone else. That includes Kairi and the other Princesses of Heart.

And Kairi didn't turn into a Heartless for one or two reasons.

One, her heart wasn't fully lost. It ended up inside Sora, rather than just leaving her body and mind for nothing, which is what happens to others when they become Heartless. Then, when Sora freed it later, her body was right there so her heart could return to her body. The other Princesses of Heart lost their hearts, but they didn't go nowhere; they meshed to form the Keyblade of Hearts.

Two, another reason/an additional reason could be that, since Kairi is a Princess of Heart and the brightest light dwells in the deepest darkness, she *already* possesses so much darkness that transfiguring into a Heartless would be a major step *down.*

Paul

"Turn to darkness!"-World of Chaos Ansem
KINGDOM HEARTS

 

[astertide]

This is how Kairi was able to turn Sora back into a human - though that was partially Sora himself because Kairi is his brightest light in the deepest darkness, so her love and warmth gave him the determination to fight off the darkness. As Sora himself says in KINGDOM HEARTS III, "I feel strong with you, Kairi." Kairi, more than anyone else, is Sora's strength.

Kairi kept Sora from fading away for similar reasons in KINGDOM HEARTS III. Through her skills and strength over light, her belief in Sora and her love for him, and Sora's belief in Kairi and his love for her.

Her love for Sora obviously did have something to do with it. But not DARKNESS. BUT KAIRI HAS NO DARKNESS. EVEN NOMURA SAYS SO.

Though, in this situation, that Kairi created the Demon Tide and the Lich might have been part of it. Since Kairi created them both, they're not going to put Sora, or Kairi herself, in *as* much danger as the others, though they are going to put them both in danger.

... How exactly does Kairi create Demon Tides?

As I said earlier.

Demon Tides are a type of Heartless.

Heartless are born out of the darkness in peoples' hearts.

We just have to accept that Kingdom Hearts is a video game and that sometimes things just happen for good gameplay and plot convenience.

And Princesses of Heart are different from others because they're willing to think with their hearts, and choose to do so, to degrees most people don't choose to be willing to and don't choose to do. The Princesses of Heart let themselves experience emotion in their purest capacities, both light and darkness, while most people refuse to live or communicate from the heart, to the heart, so their light and darkness are less developed.

"purest capacities"
"both light and darkness"
Which one is it?!

That line from the Glossary doesn't say, anywhere, that the Princesses of Heart don't have any darkness, just that they're pure.

Another name for the princesses of heart: the only seven people in the world whose hearts are pure light.

And even if it did, it wouldn't matter. The Glossary entry is just general, so anything the characters say or do overrides it right away.

People > dictionary definitions.

"And even if it did, it wouldn't matter."
"And even if it did, it wouldn't matter."

Now you're contradicting yourself. The glossary is in-game.

Don't underestimate Nomura.
He knows exactly what he's doing.
Nomura > People > dictionary definitions.

 

[Lacan Valeth]

Astertide:
People > Nomura's skill as a writer enables him to recognize that he needs to write his characters realistically > dictionary definitions.

I'm not contradicting myself. An in-Game Glossary means nothing when it's general.

So your own dictionary definition likewise doesn't negate my points.

And I haven't contradicted myself by saying 'purest capacities' and 'both light and darkness' even once. Common sense demonstrates that the two terms aren't mutually exclusive.

Do you have a specific quote from a Nomura interview where he says that Kairi has no darkness? If so, can you please quote it for me? I'll concede the argument then.

Nothing in KINGDOM HEARTS happens for plot convenience or good Gameplay convenience. The Gameplay is a vehicle for the story and the plot is a vehicle for the characterization, not the other ways around. I recommend that you have more faith in Nomura's ability to characterize her, write plot, and develop Gameplay than *this.*

I haven't once underestimated Nomura. As you said, he knows what he's doing. I'd argue that you're underestimating Nomura by saying that Nomura would resort to plot convenience or good Gameplay.

Paul

"This is our story. Now let's see this through to the end."-Yuna
FINAL FANTASY X

 

[astertide]

You're taking 'pure' too literally. Given the context, 'pure' is being used figuratively. Sora and Ven *both directly say that* Vanitas is free to choose light or darkness, as is anyone else. That includes Kairi and the other Princesses of Heart.

Paul, there are two types of darkness. The big, collective force of Darkness, and the darkness in peoples' hearts. Vanitas' heart is pure darkness. Sora and Ven say that Vanitas should be able to choose on what side he's on- the Dark side or the Light side.

And Kairi didn't turn into a Heartless for one or two reasons.

One, her heart wasn't fully lost. It ended up inside Sora, rather than just leaving her body and mind for nothing, which is what happens to others when they become Heartless. Then, when Sora freed it later, her body was right there so her heart could return to her body. The other Princesses of Heart lost their hearts, but they didn't go nowhere; they meshed to form the Keyblade of Hearts.

"rather than just leaving her body and mind for nothing, which is what happens to others when they become Heartless."
... Wha?
Peoples' hearts don't leave their bodies for "nothing." They leave because they've fallen to the darkness.
Kairi's heart went to Sora because of Aqua's spell, yes. But she didn't become a Nobody because she... Well... Didn't create a Heartless!

Two, another reason/an additional reason could be that, since Kairi is a Princess of Heart and the brightest light dwells in the deepest darkness, she *already* possesses so much darkness that transfiguring into a Heartless would be a major step *down.*

... That... Doesn't make any sense. Kairi clearly didn't use darkness to purify Sora. She didn't use darkness to keep darkness away. It doesn't make sense. You can't fight fire with fire. The whole reason Kairi can travel through a Dark Corridor without a coat is because she can't be corrupted by darkness. Even Maleficent says that she can't get Aurora's heart because it is pure light. It's 100% canon that Princess of Heart have hearts of pure light.

"the brightest light dwells in the deepest darkness, she *already* possesses so much darkness"
That's not what that quote means. It means that the world is dark, that evil is everywhere, but we have to do what we can to stay good and true to the light.

I'm fully aware that Ven knew what was at stake with Xehanort and the Kye-Blade, and I'm fully aware of what was at stake myself. That doesn't make it okay for Ven to request Aqua and Terra be the ones to murder him when he could have done so himself at any time before Vanitas reunited with him.

Firstly, killing himself isn't really that much better. Secondly, he still needs to live, because he's still gonna take the chance that staying alive will change things. He's a keyblade wielder. The only one other than Mickey, Aqua and Terra that can stop Xehanort. Even if he stops the X-Blade from being forged, Vanitas will just find another light to merge with- He even called Aqua his backup! Thirdly, he wants to live. If there's a happy future after, then he wants to be a part of it. He only wants to sacrifice himself if there's no other way.

Ansem the Wise said the Princesses of Heart have no darkness, but as I keep addressing, Ansem's perspective cannot be trusted. No one else, Yen Sid or Xehanort or Mickey or Aqua, said that the Princesses of Heart have no darkness at all, just that they possess the purest hearts around.

pure - adjective - "not mixed or adulterated with any other substance or material"

The hearts of princesses are 100% pure. Not "as pure as possible". Pure.

If you're saying Ansem's perspective can't be trusted, how can we trust him on anything? You can't just say that Naminé ain't Kairi's Nobody, and that Naminé can return to Kairi because... uhh... because they're special!!!

Most of the lore we get is from secret reports. What reason would Ansem have for lying? Even if he wants revenge on Xehanort and his other apprentices, what has that got to do with the princesses?

But, as I said earlier, even Maleficent says that she can't get Aurora's heart because it is pure light.

And Aqua didn't perform the bequeathing ritual. Kairi's ability to wield a Keyblade might be the result of Ava resting in her heart.

Nomura himself said that when Kairi touched Aqua's keyblade, Aqua accidentally bequeathed one to her.

"Why can Kairi use a Keyblade?

Because she came into contact with Aqua’s Keyblade.



 The Bequeathing is performed when a Keyblade Master
 touches someone using a Keyblade. When Kairi was running away from the 
Unversed in BbS she grabbed Aqua’s Keyblade, which performed the
 ceremony. That is why she is able to use a Keyblade in KHII to help
 Sora."

Nomura Interview ~ English Translation

And Xion and Sora in the bad ending to RE MIND's Secret Episode don't just turn to crystal. They give off light. That's different from what happened to Ven and Kairi.

What do you mean? She emits pink light, becomes transparent, is enveloped in white light and then bursts into fragments.

Your diagram is wrong. Ven fell asleep because the Kye-Blade was fashioned partially from his heart, so wrecking it wrecked his heart. It had nothing to do with Ventus possessing darkness *or* light.

Sorry if it wasn't clear, I was talking about Kairi's heart when I said this, not Ven. It's not the most accurate one, anyway. "Body falls asleep" and "Heart enters new body" would be more accurate.

Square ENiX specifically said it was going to start paying attention to the small details of facial expressions and body language when it moved to the PlayStation Three, and Nomura spent a *lot* longer developing KINGDOM HEARTS III than he did developing KINGDOM HEARTS II. He was almost certainly taking the time to get the animations correct. And even if he wasn't, do you honestly believe *this many* animations could be wrong?

You said, "she so lets herself be ruled by emotion she briefly closes her eyes in the middle of a combat situation and thusly takes her eyes off of Xemnas for a short period of time." I said, "You paused a video and screenshotted it. She could've just blinked, or it could've been a trick of the light or a mistake in animation." I was pointing out the fact that pausing a video isn't "proof" of anything. It's just too up to chance and interpretation.

This is what I would call an error in this scene in Re:Mind. Lea's keyblade is just floating behind Xemnas. Would you say that that's a part of canon and Lea's keyblade teleported there?

Nor does it matter what Vanitas is, biologically or otherwise. What you are, biologically or otherwise, has nothing whatsoever to do with your free will and who you are. And even if it did - which it doesn't - *Xehanort's Heartless/Ansem* was a Heartless, yet he explicitly said that at first he wanted to defy his destiny but he submitted to it and followed the darkness because his colleagues betrayed him. And even then Xehanort's Heartless/Ansem knew his darkness didn't compare to Riku and Sora and that his praises of darkness were empty bluffs. Furthermore, *Riku Replica* and *Xion* are replicas, as Vanitas is in KINGDOM HEARTS III and KINGDOM HEARTS III: RE MIND. Are you saying they didn't possess the ability to choose to live their own lives as they wanted to live them?

No, that is not what I meant at all. Sorry if you interpreted it that way. I was simply pointing out that Vanitas wasn't a biological human, as you said "And child Vanitas is human. Sora and Ven attempt to convince Vanitas of this himself." Of course, he can choose his own destiny. Saying otherwise is plain dumb.

How does Ava talk and act about Ephemer's broken promise to the Player Character, and did Ephemer truly break it?

Quest 555. Ava disguises herself as another Union Leader, corresponding to what Union the Player is in. If the Player happens to be in Vulpes, then Ava disguises herself as Ira, even though she is the leader of Vulpes. She tells Player, Skuld and Chirithy that she got rid of Ephemer. The Player fights her in anger. After the fight, she tells Player that they fought well and that it was a test. She invites Skuld and Player to join the Dandelions, and Skuld agrees. However, Player is concerned for the others that haven't been chosen to become Dandelions, and Ava respects the Player's choice.

Comic

*Kairi doesn't have free will?*

Are you serious?

I never once said that. Stop twisting what I say and then accuse me.

First, even if she *wasn't* a natural born human and person, it wouldn't matter. See above about how how you're created, ethereally or biologically, has no effect on your free will or on who you are, and about Xehanort's Heartless/Ansem, Riku Replica, and Xion. But Kairi *was* a natural born human - so far as we know. And whether she was or wasn't, even if *she* was fine with that - which there's no evidence whatsoever that she is - *Sora* and *Riku* sure as heck wouldn't be, given much of what they've come to stand for and what they know that people like Riku Replica, Lea/Axel, Roxas, Namine, and Xion have been through because Xehanort and Xemnas and others treated them as if they didn't have the ability to choose who to be.

You can't choose your biological features, that's true, but it's also true that your biological features and parents have nothing whatsoever to do with your personality or free will. Kairi's ethereal and biological origins have no say in who she is or her choices.

YES. I AGREE. I NEVER SAID ANYTHING AGAINST THAT. You said that saying that she wasn't human was insensitive, so I argued against that. I never said that she can't choose her own destiny, or that she doesn't have free will.

 

[Face My Fears]

KeybladeLordSora:
This doesn't convince me. I've said a number of times that Ansem the Wise's Secret Reports aren't trustworthy, since they were written by someone blinded by revenge.

And I've been arguing repeatedly that the scenes from the Games are trustworthy sources. I'm arguing that the scenes from the Games *are* trustworthy, because characters' characterization is the most trustworthy source for how a person feels and thinks, as opposed by words spoken to or about them by one or more people who don't know them well.

I don't treat my Fanfiction as fact. I haven't said the slightest thing that conveys that.

How is saying that characterization is trustworthy and the words of people who don't know the characters who are displaying the characterization aren't trustworthy is 'being a loon who treats Fanfiction as fact?'

Paul

"Why can't you understand her feelings!?"-Fei Fong Wong
XENOGEARS

You say that the Ansem Reports are not trustworthy, yet quotes that work in favour of your argument are? "Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!" said by Ansem: Seeker of Darkness is trustworthy information? Even though at the end of KH1, it's proven wrong? "But I didn't ask for this. To be sifted, nice and neat. Not just light. Not just darkness. We should be free to choose." Ven is talking about himself and Vanitas - who were both unwillingly sifted into "pure light" and "pure darkness" by Master Xehanort. Ven did have darkness in him BEFORE Master Xehanort "sifted" Vanitas out of him.

The Demon Tides showed up because it was a new style of enemy that Nomura wanted to show off in the Unreal Engine, to spice up the Shadow heartless. If you were serious in trying to find actual evidence of Kairi having darkness, the least you could have done is bring up the "special" Darkside heartless we fight at the start of KH3 (which is confirmed to be taking place in the future during the Keyblade Graveyard segment of the game). I always thought that heartless may have a connection to Kairi, but after ReMIND did nothing with it, I kinda dropped that theory. Screenshots of Kairi looking angry or in the heat of battle doesn't prove anything.

 

[khfans33]

just because kairi is angry doesn't mean she has darkness inside her, also, the princesses of heart have no darkness inside them at all

 

[disney233]

.......Am I to assume that this dude determined Kairi's and the Disney Princesses' possession of the purest darkness through....glaring? I know that the KH community specializes in theories...but we're really going full tinfoil hat level conspiracy theories here. Your stuff's good for fanfic though.

 

[KeybladeLordSora]

.......Am I to assume that this dude determined Kairi's and the Disney Princesses' possession of the purest darkness through....glaring? I know that the KH community specializes in theories...but we're really going full tinfoil hat level conspiracy theories here. Your stuff's good for fanfic though.

Yes.

He determined that without a doubt they must have darkness all cuz Kairi made angry faces.

 

[.:Mega:.]

Hey, astertide, try not to take the free will comment too seriously- he does this ALL the time. This guy went OFF on me because I'm aro/ace and somehow he took that as me thinking his friends don't have free will. ._. I won't go into the specific details here because it is not even relevant to this forum (which is more than I can say about him vagueing about me here), but I digress. xP

I don't wanna go into more detail than that here, so to stay on topic:

No, Kairi does not have darkness. Being angry does not mean having darkness. GLARING does not mean having darkness. Even the Disney princesses are able to feel negative emotions. Never once has Nomura stated in any interview that PoH have darkness- not the ultimanias, not anywhere else. The fact that they have none is kinda why Namine is a special Nobody to begin with.

Most likely these powers were achieved through a special process when she was born. Namine is a Nobody, created when a young girl's heart left her body.

Yet she has no corresponding Heartless.

This is because the young girl in this case was a princess.

Kairi, a resident of the Radiant Garden over which I had ruled, was one of the Seven Princesses that uphold the realm of light. With no darkness in her heart, Kairi produced no Heartless, and instead of vanishing, her body remained in the realm of light.

Maleficent: There are seven maidens of the purest heart. We call them the
princesses of heart.

Yen Sid: Well, as the original princesses of hearts' time for protecting
the pure light has ended, they have passed the light to others. Our enemy
must certainly be cognizant of this. If the "New Seven Hearts" is what
they wish to call them, so be it.

Sora: But Kairi hasn't passed on her power. Is she one of the new seven?

Mickey: She must be. But still, she chose to wield a Keyblade and fight
with us as one of the guardians of light.

Also, Ventus:

Xehanort: Ah yes, so you are starting to realize...what you lost--oh, but not
for good. You had to lose in order to find. Now it can all be yours again, if
you only reach out and take it. Reclaim the part that left you. Clash with him!
Pure light against pure darkness, to forge the ultimate key. The all-powerful
X-blade!

So yeah. Repeatedly stated by multiple characters.

 

[KeybladeLordSora]

Hey, astertide, try not to take the free will comment too seriously- he does this ALL the time. This guy went OFF on me because I'm aro/ace and somehow he took that as me thinking his friends don't have free will. ._. I won't go into the specific details here because it is not even relevant to this forum (which is more than I can say about him vagueing about me here), but I digress. xP

I don't wanna go into more detail than that here, so to stay on topic:

No, Kairi does not have darkness. Being angry does not mean having darkness. GLARING does not mean having darkness. Even the Disney princesses are able to feel negative emotions. Never once has Nomura stated in any interview that PoH have darkness- not the ultimanias, not anywhere else. The fact that they have none is kinda why Namine is a special Nobody to begin with.







Also, Ventus:



So yeah. Repeatedly stated by multiple characters.

I already used the first example and he thought it was untrustworthy cuz AtW was revenge-obsessed.

That and he thinks pure light isn't even literal

 

[.:Mega:.]

I already used the first example and he thought it was untrustworthy cuz AtW was revenge-obsessed.

That and he thinks pure light isn't even literal

Did anyone post the glossary from KH3D? Because...

Another name for the princesses of heart: the only seven people in the world whose hearts are pure light. While not necessarily royalty, they are called "princesses" because they are all female and the one who brings them together will reign over all worlds. The nature of the princesses' power is not entirely clear, but once already their hearts have been stolen to create an entrance to Kingdom Hearts and a so-called "Keyblade of heart."

Nomura wouldn't put misleading information into his own game's glossary. That would just be sloppy. The KH3D glossary was specifically designed to inform people who might not have played previous titles in the series.

 

[KeybladeLordSora]

Did anyone post the glossary from KH3D? Because...



Nomura wouldn't put misleading information into his own game's glossary. That would just be sloppy. The KH3D glossary was specifically designed to inform people who might not have played previous titles in the series.

Yes, the DDD Glossary entry was posted too.

It didn't convince him either.

 

[disney233]

So, he literally does not believe in ANY clear proof literally told throughout the story. Wow. This is the epitome of the Kingdom Hearts conspiracy fandom.

 

[Lacan Valeth]

Astertide:
This might be where we're disagreeing. I'm saying that the darkness and the light in people's hearts creates the darkness external energies and light external energies, so they're one and the same things. Thus, since Vanitas can choose to side with, and experience emotions of, darkness or light, the Princesses of Heart can choose to side with, and experience emotions of, light or darkness.

By 'for nothing,' I meant 'end up in nothing, so thusly they lose their hearts.' I'm sorry for being unclear.

And you make a good point about Aqua being the reason Kairi ended up in Sora. I was under the impression that Aqua's spell enabled Kairi to successfully reach the Destiny Islands when Xehanort sent her there, but your interpretation - Did Nomura confirm this in an interview? - makes more sense, as Xehanort didn't need any assistance to send Kairi to the Destiny Islands. Even if Nomura didn't confirm this, I'll likely go with your interpretation from now on.

Thank you.

I didn't say anything about Kairi using darkness to purify Sora, or using darkness to keep darkness away - Though you *can* 'fight fire with fire' that way. Yozora/Vanitas/'Surex'/the Master, Luxu/Braig/Xigbar, and the two Organization Thirteens do it a lot with their coats. -

Once again, 'pure light' doesn't mean 'devoid of darkness at all.' Maleficent couldn't gain Aurora's heart because it didn't have enough darkness, and Kairi can likewise travel through a corridor of darkness for similar reasons - or because Kairi's heart already has so much darkness that passing through a dark corridor wouldn't corrupt it any further.

'The closer you get to the light, the greater your shadow becomes' and 'the brightest light dwells in the deepest darkness' *do* relate to people's hearts, and not just reality. See Sora's words to Kairi about how she enabled him to regain his human form, and *especially* Namine's and Riku's exchange when Namine teaches Riku how to confront and conquer his darkness. The Namine and Riku exchange demonstrates that 'the closer you get to the light, the greater your shadow becomes' relates to people.

If Ven was genuinely being selfless, he would have murdered himself without taking the risk that Xehanort or Vanitas could forge the Kye-Blade with him by staying alive, and he certainly wouldn't have requested Aqua and Terra to be the ones to murder him. This was extremely selfish and extremely insensitive of Aqua's and Terra's feelings, so this was darkness.

Ansem wasn't lying about the Princesses, his perspective was warped by hate and anger. He put the Princesses of Heart on a pedestal as he was dropping Nobodies into a pit because his hate and anger towards his apprentices led him to see darkness as worse than it is and light as better than it is.

If just Ansem had said that Namine is Kairi's Nobody, then yes, that couldn't be trusted. But he, unlike with how the Princesses of Heart possess no darkness at all, is not the sole source that Namine is Kairi's Nobody. There are a number of other, reliable, sources for that, including Namine herself.

You're taking the dictionary definitions too literally again. 'Pure' and 'purest' are being used figuratively. People > Nomura's need to write characters realistically > figurative language > general dictionary terms.

I concede the points about how Kairi became a Keyblade wielder.

I'll look at the Nomura interview another time. Thank you for the Link.

I concede the points about Kairi disappearing differently than Xion and Sora, as well.

Thank you for the video.

Kairi entered Sora, as you said, because of Aqua. It had nothing to do with her heart not having any darkness. That Kairi's heart entered Sora's *because* of Aqua is more evidence that Kairi possesses darkness. If not for Aqua, Kairi might have become a Heartless when she lost her heart.

I wonder now if the Demon Towers all showed up in places Aqua was, even if Kairi wasn't directly connected to them, because *Aqua* cast the spell that kept Kairi from becoming a Heartless. Maybe Aqua created the Demon Tides and the Lich as well as Kairi, too.

I was under the impression that *Kairi,* not Xehanort's Heartless/Ansem, turned Aqua into Anti-Aqua in order to prevent Riku from saving her - since Aqua isn't Anti-Aqua after Xehanort's Heartless/Ansem shoots her with the energy sphere; we just see Aqua give up and darkness spread out over her, and Aqua isn't Anti-Aqua until she emerges from the Demon Tower - and Aqua thus causing Riku more pain, but maybe Aqua was partially responsible - other than by giving up since she'd failed to love and protect Ansem the Wise, thus failing to love and protect someone she cared about for the fourth time in her life - for that Demon Tower, and not just Kairi.

Pausing a video isn't proof of anything, but non-paused facial expressions and body language are. If Kairi closes her eyes in the video when it's not paused, it's proof that she's unhealthily allowing emotion to rule her.

Your video of Flame Liberator strengths my argument, not yours. Nomura likely put it there to show why Lea/Axel still has his Keyblade later in the initial KINGDOM HEARTS III after Xemnas wrecked it, to show that Xemnas didn't fully shatter it, he just damaged it badly and stole it from Lea, and Lea got it back shortly afterwards - in time for the Xemnas and Isa/Saix Boss battle in RE MIND. Nomura was aware that, even with all the attention to detail he'd put into the animation, he'd left a plot hole, so he put Flame Liberator hovering beside and above Xemnas to close the plot hole.

So we agree that Vanitas can choose his own destiny. Good.

Thank you very much for the information about Ava, Ephemer, the Player Character, and the later quotes.

Who says the line, 'But you took him away from me.'? Ava or the Player Character? - So the Player Character isn't a silent protagonist. *Hooray! * -

Did Ava reveal how she felt about lying about Ephemer when she revealed the truth? Because it's clear from the scene with Ephemer in BACK COVER, and her last scene with the Dandelions, that she refuses to use Ephemer as a puppet under any circumstances.

Do you - or anyone else - know if the scenes in UNION CROSS where Luxu implies that the 'traitor who bears the sigil' who begins the First Keyblade War is Ava take place before or after Ava's trick with Ephemer with the Player? Because, as I said in another Thread, while turning the Foretellers against each other didn't break Ava's spirit to not just live by her role due to the love that she shares with Ephemer, discovering that she was the reason the First Keyblade War would happen and annihilate everyone in the realm of light, and the realm of light itself, very well might break Ava's spirit to live as a person and not as a puppet.

If you're not saying that Kairi doesn't have free will, then why are you saying that she can't choose the darkness as Vanitas can choose the light?

Face My Fears:
I didn't say that Xehanort's Heartless/Ansem was correct with his bluffs about darkness and light. My quote wasn't connected to my points on a one = one basis. I should have made it clearer that my quotes don't always connect to my points on a one = one basis. I'm sorry for that.

Sora and Ven were referring to everyone with the 'we should be free to choose' lines. I recommend that you look at the context.

Ven still possessed darkness after Xehanort took Vanitas from him. Ven is compared to the guardians of light on a number of occasions, and see my argument about Ven's request to commit suicide at the hands of Aqua and Terra murdering him.

It doesn't matter why Nomura wanted to show off the Demon Towers and the Demon Tides in graphical terms. None of that means that there's no story behind the Demon Towers and the Demon Tides. And the Lich, who bears chains, as Terra-Xehanort's ultimate ability is corrupted chains of bonds, doesn't display much about what the Unreal Engine can do, and Kairi furthermore created the Lich.

Where is it confirmed that the watery Darkside is connected to Sora's first tenure in The Final World?

Now that you bring it up, yes, I *should* have used that as evidence. You're very correct; I should not have missed that.

*Headdesk.*

Ich bin ein dummkopf.

In RE MIND, a fragment of Kairi's heart creates a fiery Darkside in Scala ad Caelum, and another fragment of her heart creates an unusually durable regular Shadow Heartless. So I wouldn't give up on the watery Heartless' connection to Kairi. She very well *could* have created the watery Darkside.

Alternately, the watery Darkside is Elsa's, indirectly created through Kairi, and the fiery Darkside is Anna's - who, as I presented evidence for in another Thread, has a strong bond of friendship with Sora and, though Sora doesn't return it, Anna may be beginning to fall in love with Sora, be falling in love with Sora, or have fallen in love with Sora - also indirectly created through Kairi. Perhaps the unusually durable - since durable equals 'living on' - Shadow Heartless is Rapunzel's, due to Rapunzel's healing powers that save and protect lives, additionally indirectly created through Kairi.

*Very good* points.

I need to refresh my memory of the enemies in Scala ad Caelum that Sora battles around the other four fragments of Kairi's heart than the fiery Darkside. That may offer clues as to who the last of the New Seven Hearts are.

I remember that one was in a gaming machine. That's further evidence, as I argued in another Thread, that Vanellope is one of the other New Seven Hearts.

Another is atop an underground waterway. That's likely Kairi's fragment itself.

Another was connected to a fountain. That's probably Elsa's, because you battle the watery Darkside in the Station of Awakening, not in Scala ad Caelum.

One fragment is in Mickey. Minnie, then?

That leaves the fragment of Kairi's heart inside Riku. Does anyone have any ideas what Princess *that fragment* is connected to?

Screenshots of Kairi in the heat of battle prove a lot. They're Kairi's own facial expressions and body language, and thus her personality and characterization.

KHFans33:
See my points above.

Disney233:
See my points above.

This has nothing to do with a conspiracy or conspiracies. This has to do with the characters' characterization themselves; with Nomura's tendency to write major plot twists in his stories - Which isn't just a tendency of *his,* but of Square ENiX overall. See FINAL FANTASY VII, FINAL FANTASY TACTICS/FINAL FANTASY TACTICS: THE WAR OF THE LIONS, XENOGEARS, and VAGRANT STORY, for example. - that you can see coming ahead of time if you pay attention; with the issue that there are too many coincidences surrounding at least the Demon Tides, if not the Demon Towers, and when you have that many coincidences, it's almost a certain matter that they're *not* coincidences; and with the issue that, though Nomura has written three female protagonists, two of them *group members,* into the KINGDOM HEARTS series thus far, with very in-depth and very extensive characterization, he hasn't done that much - up front - with Kairi yet, so that means he's almost certainly been keeping her out of the spotlight for set-up thus far.

KeybladeLordSora:
I'm not just arguing that Kairi made angry faces. I'm arguing that she made faces of vengeful anger, hateful anger, and despair.

And I do take 'pure light' and related terms literally. Just not in the dictionary definition sense.

Paul

"Trembling, unable to stop shaking
We've not found the light
Just the glare of this era"
'Ignited'
GUNDAM SEED DESTINY

 

[KeybladeLordSora]

Okay, you are just pulling stuff out of your ass at this point.

A Final World themed Darkside is suddenly Elsa's and a glowing Darkside is Anna's? Kairi turned Aqua into Anti-Aqua? Thinking Vanitas is both Yozora and the MoM? TREATING AN EXTREMELY SHORT MODEL GLITCH AS INTENTIONAL?

This is quite literally a bunch of nonsense!!!

It's like trying to prove Riku is Sephiroth and Vergil's son because he has white hair, a wing themed weapon, green eyes, and has blue in his color scheme!

 

[disney233]

It's like trying to prove Riku is Sephiroth and Vergil's son because he has white hair, a wing themed weapon, green eyes, and has blue in his color scheme!

ayo don't give him ideas.

 

[Lacan Valeth]

KeybladeLordSora:
You have no proof that the Flame Liberator hovering above and beside Xemnas, which Xemnas and Keyblades have been proven to be more than capable a number of times throughout KINGDOM HEARTS, is a 'model glitch.'

And do you honestly believe that someone with all the years of experience that Tetsuya Nomura has, who specifically said in an interview that the team that he was developing KINGDOM HEARTS III with are people that he's worked with for years and who know how to enact what he wants into Games very well and how to work with him very well, would make the mistake of *glitching an entire Keyblade?*

Elsa is a Princess of Heart with power over ice and water, all the Princesses of Heart are connected to one another and all possess darkness - Elrena/Larxene even specifically says that Elsa needs to choose her light over her darkness to become a New Seven Heart - and you battle the watery Darkside on a surface of water.

Anna is a Princess of Heart who complements Elsa and who is emotional - which can be interpreted as 'fiery' - who Sora has connected to even more strongly than he's connected to Kairi, Riku, Donald, and Goofy, as evidenced when he feels Anna's pain in his heart from outside Elsa's ice palace when Elsa shoots Anna in the heart with the ice fragment even though Sora doesn't feel anyone else's pain in the entire KINGDOM HEARTS series but Roxas' and Riku's, and Roxas has merged with Sora before Sora feels Roxas' pain and Kairi needs to join hands with Sora and Riku before Sora can feel Riku's pain, and who might be beginning to fall in love with, be falling in love with, or have fallen in love with Sora.

Further evidence that the fragments of Kairi's heart connected to individual enemies belong to Elsa, Rapunzel, and Anna, respectively, is in how Nomura draws his character designs. In FINAL FANTASY VII, Sefer/Safer Sephiroth's one shoulder angelic wing is shaded in the colors of Jenova's three forms. Nomura pays *specific attention* to the small details of his drawings, as any good illustrative artist does.

Kairi was right there with Riku when Yen Sid and Mickey revealed that Aqua had sacrificed herself for him, saw Riku's pain and couldn't take it away anywhere *near* fully, gave facial expressions and body language that showed that she was very upset about this and even holding back the same hatred she looks at Terra-Xehanort and Xemnas with, and, though I haven't been able to tell for sure yet, though I intend to sooner or later, perhaps today, at one point in response to Riku's pain she might have begun to clench one hand in extreme frustrated anger that Riku is suffering and that she can do little or nothing to love and to protect and to cherish and to be there for Riku from it. Most of all, it's *Riku's pain* that motivates Kairi to tell Yen Sid that she's come there to learn how to become a better Keyblade wielder.

So Kairi has *a lot* of motive not to want Riku to meet with Aqua and potentially go through more pain at Aqua's hands, and to want Mickey away from Riku as well before Mickey causes Riku any further pain by keeping anything else from him, burdening him with more responsibilities, et cetera.

Yozora and Vanitas are the Master for a large number of reasons, a minority of them being that all three are strongly connected to dreams, vanishing, and sleep - as is Maleficent, who seeks Luxu's box - 'Vanitas' is a Latin term referring to 'pride' and 'emptiness;' when Yozora steals Sora's Keyblade during the Secret Episode duel, even if Sora isn't wielding the Ultima Weapon, it transubstantiates into a pure energy and light version of the Ultima Weapon that might be known as the Omega Weapon, so Yozora is clearly not just a Keyblade wielder, but one of the best around; Yozora's secondary weapon is an arrowgun, similar to Luxu's primary weapon when he's not wielding No Name; Yozora's military subordinate has his hair cut in a style similar to Luxu's in his semblance as Braig and Xigbar; Yozora's 'heart has been replaced by another' and the Yozora Sora meets tells Sora that 'this isn't what I really look like' so the Yozora Sora meets might be in a Xehanort's Heartless/Ansem/Riku situation; child Vanitas creates Unversed out of the darkness of his heart while regular people create Heartless so child Vanitas might be Yozora's Nobody; Luxord's - who might be Ven's Nobody, created similar to how Kairi created Namine when Xehanort removed Darkness/Vanitas, who additionally sent Maleficent after Luxu's box, from Ven - power is time while Braig's/Xigbar's is space and Yozora's ultimate ability in the duel in the Secret Episode of KINGDOM HEARTS III: RE MIND is a neutron star that, in astrophysics, can decay into a black hole that exerts such a powerful gravitational force that neither light, space, nor, supposedly, time can escape it; and more.

There's no similarity between my beliefs and theories and evidence and 'attempting to prove Riku is Sephiroth's and Virgil's son.'

Disney233:
Once more, see my points above.

I forgot CHRONO CROSS. CHRONO CROSS is another good example of Square ENiX's love for major plot twists that you can see coming if you pay attention, and then the DS version of CHRONO TRIGGER warped these plot twists still further.

Thinking about it, since Namine has a heart, due to her strong bond with Riku and the sixth fragment of Kairi's heart was inside Riku, it's very possible that Namine is the seventh and last New Seven Heart.

The first fragment was Ven's, and a durable Shadow Heartless'. I was wrong. *That* one was Kairi's herself, due to the Shadow Heartless' connections to Demon Tides, the Lich, and the Demon Towers; Ven's connection to them through his ties to Yozora/Vanitas/'Surex' - Once more, this is a name I imagined myself, since someone in another thread told me that all of the Foretellers are named after the Seven Deadly Sins and 'Surex' has similarities to both 'Sora' and 'Roxas.' - /the Master - more evidence of Yozora's ties to the Demon Tides, the Lich, and the Demon Towers is the Journal Entry on the KINGDOM HEARTS III Gummiphone that strongly implies, if not directly states, that the presence of the Demon Tides and the Demon Towers in the realm of light is a harbinger of things to come; and the matter that that fragment is retrieved from the portion of Scala ad Caelum where Sora battles Xehanort, and is thus the most critical fragment due to, among other issues, Kairi's ties to Xehanort's plans.

The fountain fragment is Aqua's, and Elsa's. And, if the fragments are connected to the first Princesses of Heart as well, Alice's; as she's the Princess of a reality of dreams as Elsa is of the ice palace in Arendelle, and Alice's selfless care for others and her principles are opposed to the Queen of Hearts' selfishness and disdain for others as Elsa's selfless care for others and her principles are opposed to Hans' selfishness and disdain for others.

The waterway fragment, which you reach by going underground and then ascending a tower, is Terra's, and Rapunzel's. And Cinderella's, who spent her life trapped by her mother as Rapunzel spent her life trapped by her supposed 'mother,' and who dreams of a better life and a better home as Rapunzel does.

The game fragment is Sora's himself, since Sora is a playful person, and Vanellope's. And Snow White, the supposed 'glitch' among the Seven Dwarfs and to her stepmother who melts the hearts of the hard Seven Dwarfs, as Vanellope is a supposed 'glitch' in Sugar Rush and melts the heart of the harsh Wreck-It Ralph.

The fiery Darkside Heartless' is Roxas', and Anna's. And Jasmine's, the spirited Princess connected to sand as Anna is connected to fire who fell in love with a commoner rather than royalty; as Anna is spirited and torn between friendship, and maybe romantic love, with Sora and Kristoff.

Riku's fragment is his, and Namine's. And Aurora's, the lonely Princess who yearns to connect with others and who briefly fell into an enchanted slumber, as Namine longed to connect with others and put Sora into a mystical slumber.

Mickey's fragment is his, and Minnie's. And Belle's, the smartest of the initial Princesses other than perhaps Kairi who understands people's personalities more than the other original Princesses save for maybe Kairi, and who understands how people feel and think more than the first Princesses save for perhaps Kairi as well; as Minnie understands people's personalities and how hers and Mickey's people feel and think very well.

Lastly, I *am* writing a KINGDOM HEARTS Fanfiction series dealing with these concepts. You said that they'd create good Fanfiction - Though I wouldn't call my writing 'good.' I'm writing Fanfiction about these concepts because I'm interested in delving into them. - so are you interested in reading the following?

~*~*~*~

"Kingdom Hearts: Shattering Egg of Dreams
After protecting Elsa from the cold trapping her and Arendelle in ice, Anna has one last talk with Sora, the boy who took her seriously and believed she could love Elsa when no one else, not Elsa herself, not Kristoff, no one else did. And, even though she has just thrown wide the corridor back to her sister's light, a door is once again shut in Anna's face. One-sided Anna/Sora.
Kingdom Hearts - Rated: T - English - Friendship/Romance - Chapters: 1 - Words: 12,750 - Updated: 9/23/2020 - Published: 9/23/2020 - Sora, Anna - Complete"

"Kingdom Hearts: The Girl Who Stole the Star
Sequel to KH: SEOD. Sora is restored from The Final World by Kairi to find that much has changed since he vanished. Sora's death has devastated Kairi and Riku; Xion, Anna, and Elsa are faced with a nightmare destiny; and the mysterious Master of the Foretellers, adumbrated by shade, is on the verge of completing his millennia-long plan. The brightest light casts the darkest shadow.
Kingdom Hearts - Rated: T - English - Friendship/Adventure - Chapters: 4 - Words: 34,806 - Updated: 10/8/2020 - Published: 9/24/2020 - [Sora, Kairi] Xion, Anna"

~*~*~*~

Astertide:
I was going to wait to see people's responses before Posting any further pictures, but since you Liked and HaHad the last two Posts, I'll continue arguing for my beliefs and proof and theories and interpretations now.

Here are pictures that prove Anna and Sora have a strong bond, that my friend Piccolo Sky taught me how to retrieve from YouTube, and that I Posted on GameFAQs, in an Electronic Mail to him, and that I Posted in another Thread here.

~~~

Much of the scene where Anna first meets Sora shows that Anna and Sora are developing a strong friendship, but here are two pictures from when Anna reacts to Sora telling Anna about her ability to love and to be there for Elsa, "I'm sure she knows how much you love her. If anyone can help her, it's you." that are evidence that Anna might not just be developing a strong friendship with Sora but that she might be beginning to *fall in love* with Sora, might be falling in love with Sora, or might have fallen in love with Sora.

I'm not arguing that, if Anna has any romantic feelings for Sora, that he returns them. It's possible that he does, but my argument is for a strong friendship between Anna and Sora and, if there's any romance involved, that it's on Anna's side and it's one-sided.

~*~*~*~

~*~*~*~

~*~*~*~

This entire sequence runs on YouTube in the KINGDOM HEARTS III video KINGDOM HEARTS 3 - All Cutscenes Full Movie High Definition from 4:40:09 to 40:40:45.

Additionally, watch the movie KINGDOM HEARTS 3 Movie: All Cutscenes and Secret Ending on YouTube, from 4:36:31 to 4:37:20 for further proof that Sora feels Anna's pain in his heart when Elsa shoots her ice fragment into Anna's heart, even though Sora doesn't feel *anyone's* pain in his heart anywhere else in the KINGDOM HEARTS series who hasn't previously merged with him, not even Kairi's and Riku's.

Here's the screenshot showing that Sora feels Anna's pain in his heart when Elsa shoots her ice fragment into Anna's heart.:

~*~*~*~

~*~*~*~

Here's a series of screenshots from the scene where Anna sacrifices herself to love and to protect Elsa, proving that Anna wanted *Sora,* not Kristoff, to be the one to find her on the frigid lake to, at best, give her the strength and the assured-ness that she needs to love and to protect Elsa, and, at worst, proving that Anna wanted Sora, not Kristoff, to kiss her if - and this is a big 'if' - Anna truly wanted to be loved and protected from her curse herself and she didn't just want Sora to give her the assured-ness and strength that she needed to love and to protect Elsa.

Anna is disappointed, in pain, let down, and anguished when she sees that Kristoff has come onto the frigid ice to her, and not Sora.

~*~*~*~

~*~*~*~

Anna is looking beyond Kristoff in the hopes that Sora will still arrive.

~*~*~*~

~*~*~*~

Anna gives up on that Sora will arrive to give her the strength and the assured-ness she needs to better love and to protect Elsa, as Anna knows that she needs to choose to do and would have chosen to do anyway if Sora wasn't there, and, if Anna truly cares about herself at this point, she gives up on Sora coming to her side to kiss her and to love and to protect her from her curse.

~*~*~*~

~*~*~*~

Anna, after seeing that Hans is about to strike and murder Elsa, gives one last pleading look beyond Kristoff for Sora to come to her side.

~*~*~*~

~*~*~*~

Sora will not come to Anna's side. Heartbroken, Anna turns to love and to protect Elsa on her own by herself.

~*~*~*~

~*~*~*~

Sora races onto the frozen ice to attempt to reach Anna's side and says, "Elsa, Anna..." - specifically using 'Elsa' before 'Anna' because even though Sora is more worried about Anna, he knows that Elsa is more important to Anna than Anna herself - and Anna gains the assured-ness and strength that she needs to attain the special strength to protect what matters.

~*~*~*~

~*~*~*~

This entire segment can be viewed on the YouTube KINGDOM HEARTS III movie KINGDOM HEARTS 3 Movie: All Cutscenes and Secret Ending from 4:46:16 to 4:47:01.

Here's my proof that Anna, after Elsa thaws her and when Anna isn't aware of anyone else but Elsa and Sora, is looking directly at Sora when Elrena/Larxene calls the darkness dome to separate them from each other.

~*~*~*~

~*~*~*~

This can also be seen in the YouTube KINGDOM HEARTS III movie KINGDOM HEARTS 3 Movie: All Cutscenes and Secret Ending from 4:50:30 to 4:50:36.

~~~

If this doesn't convince you, I can retrieve plenty of more screen captures from where these ones came from.

Paul

"I've followed this far in search of
That glimmering light
Clasped in the hands of a child
Wandering the brink of time

"I have continued searching for you
Though I know not your name
Because I wanted to share
This feeling with you

"Time envelops both love and pain
Until they fade away
But I still remember them
And always will

"Though I cannot remember when
A whisper began echoing
Deep within my heart
Fainter than drops of evening dew

"May this prayer I spin
Weave through the darkness of the frozen stars
And reach the skies above you
So far away"
'Radical Dreamers ~Le Tresor Interdit'
CHRONO CROSS