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Why are people convinced LeaIsa is a thing



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*TwilightNight*

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Well truthfully I wasn't checking to see if they were shippers, I just wanted to see what other KH topics they might have posted and through that I discovered it by accident. I'm truthfully not interested in who's a shipper XD

To the question they exist in every ship. Every ship will have someone who will fiercely defend their ship when under canon fire. RokuNami get just as butthurt as RokuShi when their ship is under question, and they have their own defenses too. Shipping is a very passionate thing. In every shipping society there are good ones and bad ones. No ship is without negative/toxic members. The only reason I even see these wars is because, despite my stance on shipping, I do so love the fanart that artist put out regardless of what ship it is (so long as it isn't creepy) other then that I usually try to avoid shipping altogether.

I wouldn’t mind if you give me usernames because I genuinely can't see it, but I'll leave that be.

I'm not talking about the normal shippers who are very strongly opinionated. I'm talking about a particular, secular group of shippers who are very much in cahoots with one another and are absolutely volatile to the point of obsessive sickness if you dare question their "canon". They are in Twitter and Tumblr. I literally checked one user of the crew and you have them subtly threatening another user who disagreed with them about exposing that user's followers and friends list and using a shortened version of their real name. This is without adding in the fact that they are relentless. It's to the point where I've thought they needed to breathe some outside air and see a psychiatrist. No offense, but I have never seen that with RokuNami (hell, I didn't even see that in the past of the 2000s when shipping was intense). And unless you can show me them doing something similar, I'll stick to that. There's a line that shouldn't be crossed.


I don't think Call Me by Your Name is problematic either? Sometimes teenagers date college-age guys and we all know that. I don't follow the details of this franchise very closely, but Roxas and HPO always felt like they were 16-17 about to start Senior year (hence all the focus on being together during the summer--perhaps their last summer?) and Axel felt around 21. That's not pedophilia, lol. Of course the people who hate the ship want to say Roxas is 13 and Axel is 27 because shipwars are toxic, as previously noted. Does Axel have a canon age? I think somebody said Roxas is 15? (Not that it's ever said in the game's dialogue. Maybe in the journal?)

But I never shipped Axel/Roxas, although I could see the appeal. I just never liked Axel being treated with kidgloves and never having to address the brutal murders of Zexion and Vexen. Him being with Isa feels right because they've both done bad things they need to correct. Still, I can understand the appeal of Axel/Roxas, it has the same kind of feel of B&tB or Pride & Prejudice where one character constitutes a change from bad to good in the other. As for Repliku/Namine, I always think of it sort of a similar way to Pip and Estella from Great Expectations (I only like the romance in the 2011 BBC adaptation) in that both characters were treated horribly and yet something beautiful could grow out of all that hatred and tragedy.

Boy oh boy. Do I have my opinion on Axel and his downward spiral into complete flanderization. Not only did he get off scot free, he's a shadow of what he used to be in that he's become a fourth wall breaking buffoon spouting dialogue about his popularity like a poor man's Deadpool (or is that MoM?). Needless to say, he was one of my favorite characters. He isn't now. In fact, he's thrown into the pile where the rest of the Organization members are. And even Larxene disappointed me in KHIII with that one line as she was dying.

[takes deep breath]

Back to AkuRoku though. Axel is actually ten years Roxas' senior. Being that he's Sora's discarded body, his physical age is the same one that Sora was when he created him. Therefore, canonically, he's fourteen at first, fifteen by KHII. BBS showed Isa and Lea in the past, and they were certainly teens, dare I say around the 15-16 year old bracket [Isa looks older]. BBS is set ten years ago. The math explains itself. Pack that with 358/2 Days having Axel take Roxas under his wing and watch him develop his own mind from that of a fledgling and/or newborn baby, then it starts to seriously feel like grooming. Almost predatory. Mind, I thought Axel's behavior with Roxas in KHII was a bit creepy way back when.

While it may not be pedophilia, it is considered ephebophilia, and Roxas is underaged. Everyone's entitled to their ships, but personally, there's nothing attractive about a full grown man pining for a 14 year old boy that still looks small and prepubescent. Personally. I'm just saying. Lea/Isa is the more safer gay ship if they need one for Axel. Or Lea. Whatever.

I don't remember much of Great Expectations, yet I recall that Pip and Estella didn't end well and were themselves questionable in their perception of one another. Correct me if wrong. And brainwashing wasn't in the equation. I can see the similarities with Naminé and Estella in terms of their, well, life. And the clear one-sidedness of the relationship when it comes to Repliku and how Naminè is an object that he has been assigned to protect (by her no less) while not bonding with her whatsoever to see who she really is as well as her own personal wants and needs. Pip and Estella are definitely not the ideal. And it's a lot more complicated. Honestly, even if Repliku returned, Nomura doesn't have the capability to write such type of romance let alone allow it to be that nuanced. That's where fanfiction comes in though!
 

Idkanymore92

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because axel's one of the most gay characters I've ever seen and pre-KH3, Isa's only interest/motive is keeping Axel as a friend or getting revenge on him for dumping him.
Riku seems way more gay to me yet people ignore that. That’s your opinion though I just don’t like people saying it’s a fact that lea is gay. Soriku have way more romantic subtext but people ignore thst cause of existence of Kairi therefore no shock it’s the same now with existence of subject x.

Maybe we don’t need to ship and just let everything happen on its own like always? That’s better imo.
Yeah like regardless of anything why does Lea have to be with anyone people act like he just loves Isa he loves all his friends the same. Btw I’m referring to twitter when I talk about those people not anyone on here
 

SweetYetSalty

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I'm not talking about the normal shippers who are very strongly opinionated. I'm talking about a particular, secular group of shippers who are very much in cahoots with one another and are absolutely volatile to the point of obsessive sickness if you dare question their "canon". They are in Twitter and Tumblr. I literally checked one user of the crew and you have them subtly threatening another user who disagreed with them about exposing that user's followers and friends list and using a shortened version of their real name. This is without adding in the fact that they are relentless. It's to the point where I've thought they needed to breathe some outside air and see a psychiatrist. No offense, but I have never seen that with RokuNami (hell, I didn't even see that in the past of the 2000s when shipping was intense). And unless you can show me them doing something similar, I'll stick to that. There's a line that shouldn't be crossed
Umm...yeah I was mainly talking about normal shipping arguments/fights. I honestly didn't know about this other stuff and haven't seen it either. Not saying I don't believe you, but I didn't know these extremes existed to threats like that. That's really dark stuff.

Maybe we don’t need to ship and just let everything happen on its own like always? That’s better imo.
If have a ship let it sail free into the ocean where tides will come in and the waves will guide it under the sky and away from the earth and land.

In all seriousness there is nothing wrong with shipping characters. It's only when fans get obsessed with a ship and won't tolerate other characters and alternate ships that it becomes nasty.
 

palizinhas

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I don't really care about ship wars, I'm one to ship almost everything so long as I feel it would be fun. Maybe when we see Subject X interact with Lea and Isa it will make sense to ship them together, but even if she is Skuld we don't know what she even looks like now (assuming... they'll actually let her age). So at least right now my favorite ship for both of them is each other. Childhood friends to enemies to lovers is a great romance trope, after all.
 

SweetYetSalty

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I also just feel that there’s no need for canon couples Nomura said kh was about caring about your friends and it should stay that way. This shipping makes people fight and we don’t need that it should be fun.
This. This so much. If only KH3 had heeded this and salvaged the Destiny Trio.
 

Idkanymore92

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I don't really care about ship wars, I'm one to ship almost everything so long as I feel it would be fun. Maybe when we see Subject X interact with Lea and Isa it will make sense to ship them together, but even if she is Skuld we don't know what she even looks like now (assuming... they'll actually let her age). So at least right now my favorite ship for both of them is each other. Childhood friends to enemies to lovers is a great romance trope, after all.
Shipping it causing lots of drama on Twitter it’s crazy. I’m glad your a shipper who doesn’t fight with someone who doesn’t ship LeaIsa and who doesn’t act like it’s canon and call you name it’s crazy how people cannot deal with people who have a different opinion you know. The only ship I never seen anyone arguing about is zemyx 😀
 

*TwilightNight*

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I'm 99.9% certain that Subject X is Skuld. Meaning Isa will have to skip with Lea in the flower fields holding hands because I stand with my mans Ephemera. If...he's not dead I mean.

Umm...yeah I was mainly talking about normal shipping arguments/fights. I honestly didn't know about this other stuff and haven't seen it either. Not saying I don't believe you, but I didn't know these extremes existed to threats like that. That's really dark stuff.

If anything, I can screen shot if I'm able to search for it in code words. But I think that'll be unnecessary.

This. This so much. If only KH3 had heeded this and salvaged the Destiny Trio.

To be fair, it wouldn't have been a problem if Kairi's character was more than Sora. Along with Riku and Kairi having...man, I don't know, a friendship? They act like acquaintances. It's sad Riku has more going on with Xion and Naminè when Kairi was his initial female friend. I don't know how one can drop the ball so low. Ah well. Gotta stop beating a dead horse.
 

Elysium

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Boy oh boy. Do I have my opinion on Axel and his downward spiral into complete flanderization. Not only did he get off scot free, he's a shadow of what he used to be in that he's become a fourth wall breaking buffoon spouting dialogue about his popularity like a poor man's Deadpool (or is that MoM?). Needless to say, he was one of my favorite characters. He isn't now. In fact, he's thrown into the pile where the rest of the Organization members are. And even Larxene disappointed me in KHIII with that one line as she was dying.

[takes deep breath]

Back to AkuRoku though. Axel is actually ten years Roxas' senior. Being that he's Sora's discarded body, his physical age is the same one that Sora was when he created him. Therefore, canonically, he's fourteen at first, fifteen by KHII. BBS showed Isa and Lea in the past, and they were certainly teens, dare I say around the 15-16 year old bracket [Isa looks older]. BBS is set ten years ago. The math explains itself. Pack that with 358/2 Days having Axel take Roxas under his wing and watch him develop his own mind from that of a fledgling and/or newborn baby, then it starts to seriously feel like grooming. Almost predatory. Mind, I thought Axel's behavior with Roxas in KHII was a bit creepy way back when.

While it may not be pedophilia, it is considered ephebophilia, and Roxas is underaged. Everyone's entitled to their ships, but personally, there's nothing attractive about a full grown man pining for a 14 year old boy that still looks small and prepubescent. Personally. I'm just saying. Lea/Isa is the more safer gay ship if they need one for Axel. Or Lea. Whatever.

I don't remember much of Great Expectations, yet I recall that Pip and Estella didn't end well and were themselves questionable in their perception of one another. Correct me if wrong. And brainwashing wasn't in the equation. I can see the similarities with Naminé and Estella in terms of their, well, life. And the clear one-sidedness of the relationship when it comes to Repliku and how Naminè is an object that he has been assigned to protect (by her no less) while not bonding with her whatsoever to see who she really is as well as her own personal wants and needs. Pip and Estella are definitely not the ideal. And it's a lot more complicated. Honestly, even if Repliku returned, Nomura doesn't have the capability to write such type of romance let alone allow it to be that nuanced. That's where fanfiction comes in though!
Yeah, but KH2 came before BbS and there was no reason to believe the majority of Axel-Roxas shippers thought Axel was that old when most of the shipping of those characters began. I wouldn't have thought he was that old either. And—honestly--given that KH in general is pretty much garbage in its constant re-writing of its own story facts and history, I’ll admit that I don’t at all believe Nomura intended Axel to be that old in KH2 either…. If he had to fudge the facts in BbS by aging Axel upwards, I’m sure it’s not something he thought very much about. So I don't blame the fandom for that.

“Predatory” and “grooming” are loaded words and wouldn’t describe Axel’s behavior towards Roxas *at all*. If we’re going to treat Roxas being a Nobody as if that makes him some kind of infant, then I guess we have to treat Axel like he's just a 10 year old boy…. *eyeroll* They are also words commonly thrown at gay relationships when they don’t apply, which is why it’s hard for me to see this as anything more than homophobia dressed up as virtue signaling by people who couldn't care less. The fact that that kind of rhetoric comes from fans of other Roxas ships just makes it more obvious. *shrug* No offense, but that’s how I see it—as someone not even shipping it. I’d rather Roxas was with Hayner or Namine, if I had to pick, and I prefer Lea with Isa.

Brainwashing was a part of Great Expectations, actually. Estella was taught to hate and be as cruel as possible to men growing up as Miss Havisham's revenge. Of course they were "questionable." Real people are "questionable"--life is "questionable." Nomura loves his tragedy. That's pretty much all the side games brought us were a slew of characters with wahwah stories intended to make us cry at the tragedy of it all.
 

Idkanymore92

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Are LeaxIsa really a thing? I mean an intended actual thing not counting shipping this thread is confusing
 

SweetYetSalty

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Don’t forget demyx and xigbar was also a ship lol
They were paired off together in the Grey Area in Days a lot. What a underrated duo Xigbar and Demyx were. Maybe they can still be a ship, both are still around.

If anything, I can screen shot if I'm able to search for it in code words. But I think that'll be unnecessary.



To be fair, it wouldn't have been a problem if Kairi's character was more than Sora. Along with Riku and Kairi having...man, I don't know, a friendship? They act like acquaintances. It's sad Riku has more going on with Xion and Naminè when Kairi was his initial female friend. I don't know how one can drop the ball so low. Ah well. Gotta stop beating a dead horse.
No, no! That's alright I totally believe you. I concede, you win lol.

As for Kairi I will never not be ashamed of how they killed the Destiny trio. Why didn't they have Kairi join Sora and Riku in those final fights with the norts or against ReMind's Goatnort is the Destiny Trio fighting together? I will beat this horse forever because before KH3 I loved the Destiny trio. It was simple but sweet and I always felt they all cared for one another. How could they ruin it?
 

Idkanymore92

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They were paired off together in the Grey Area in Days a lot. What a underrated duo Xigbar and Demyx were. Maybe they can still be a ship, both are still around.


No, no! That's alright I totally believe you. I concede, you win lol.

As for Kairi I will never not be ashamed of how they killed the Destiny trio. Why didn't they have Kairi join Sora and Riku in those final fights with the norts or against ReMind's Goatnort is the Destiny Trio fighting together? I will beat this horse forever because before KH3 I loved the Destiny trio. It was simple but sweet and I always felt they all cared for one another. How could they ruin it?
Yes I I feel like the remind made it seem like not even Sora cared about Riku anymore it was really sad especially since Riku is dedicated to him. It just was all about Sokai and it was too much I actually disliked Sora after seeing this

It kinda confirmed the reason Riku felt the way he did in the first game by leaving him out was right.They did Riku wrong
 
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*TwilightNight*

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Yeah, but KH2 came before BbS and there was no reason to believe the majority of Axel-Roxas shippers thought Axel was that old when most of the shipping of those characters began. I wouldn't have thought he was that old either. And—honestly--given that KH in general is pretty much garbage in its constant re-writing of its own story facts and history, I’ll admit that I don’t at all believe Nomura intended Axel to be that old in KH2 either…. If he had to fudge the facts in BbS by aging Axel upwards, I’m sure it’s not something he thought very much about. So I don't blame the fandom for that.

“Predatory” and “grooming” are loaded words and wouldn’t describe Axel’s behavior towards Roxas *at all*. If we’re going to treat Roxas being a Nobody as if that makes him some kind of infant, then I guess we have to treat Axel like he's just a 10 year old boy…. *eyeroll* They are also words commonly thrown at gay relationships when they don’t apply, which is why it’s hard for me to see this as anything more than homophobia dressed up as virtue signaling by people who couldn't care less. The fact that that kind of rhetoric comes from fans of other Roxas ships just makes it more obvious. *shrug* No offense, but that’s how I see it—as someone not even shipping it. I’d rather Roxas was with Hayner or Namine, if I had to pick, and I prefer Lea with Isa.

Axel was obviously older than Roxas based on his height and how he looked. Granted, I didn't expect him to be older than 21 at most, but that's still questionable to me. I doubt the AkuRoku fans of the past were aware of such an age gap, but fact of the matter is that Kingdom Hearts revealed Axel was an adult of about 24-25 in comparison to Roxas' 14. It's why the ship has practically sunk to the depths of the sea ala Titanic and the few remaining members do it quietly. I hardly, if at all, see AkuRoku fans any more. It doesn't help that shippers were mostly composed of fangirls and their fetishes. It's only in recent years when they have been gone that there's legitimate discussion about the relationships between the male friends of the series.

This has nothing to do with homophobia. Ship Lea/Axel with Isa, Marluxia, heck, pick the chosen one. Ship Xehanort and Eraqus. Have an adult with another freaking adult. It's a matter of ephebophilia and the fact that a man is feeling things for a boy ten years his junior. Being uncomfortable about it is extremely understandable in this situation and completely dismissing it as people being "afraid of the gays" is hardly the problem with the ship. And yes, it would be grooming if Axel was aiming to be romantically involved with Roxas while taking him under his vigilance and teaching him about things in life. It's literally the definition of grooming. And child services will be called on him for doing so in the real world. Roxas had no memories when he came into being, didn't speak, and had no idea of what the world was. He was a blank slate, and of course, mentally, it was like he was a newborn. The game presented it as such. Axel could have been a gorgeous girl with a killer personality and I still wouldn't support nor like the ship because she would still be older and be lusting on a kid.

The relationship between Axel and Roxas isn't like that canonly (thank the Lords) and thus I have no reason to be in any way vindictive against them whatsoever no matter the ship preferences? You cannot blame and accuse anyone of possible homophobia because they don't want to engage or like a ship between a 24 year old grown man and a 14 year old boy. Like no. That's not how it works. AkuRoku fans can still like them regardless of the implications, but don't place others not attune to it as somehow a branch of being homophobic. That doesn't make sense.

That's pretty much all the side games brought us were a slew of characters with wahwah stories intended to make us cry at the tragedy of it all.

I can't argue against the truth [looks at 358/2 Days].

It worked though. Not on me of course, I'm not that easily manipulated like that, but yeah.
 
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