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MATGSY

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Retweet. We've seen what babying the team through 'experiments' gets us. A decade of mechanically confused slogs with frustrating setbacks and unfulfilling systems. It's frustrating when they drop something good in favor for something worse. I don't want to play an 'interesting idea' that didn't measure up, I want to play something additive to the previous title.
AKA every Sonic game since the 90s.

If Square wanted to do trial & error experiments, do it internally before releasing a game. DDD had 1 of the shortest (maybe even the shortest) development turnarounds in the series & yet that was a game they decided to dump gimmicky character swapping, virtual pet party members, sky diving, & touch screen mini-game elements onto. It's also a game where like half the enemies can trap the player in overly long combos & the other half inflict 1 of like a half-dozen status that all pretty much do the same thing in stopping the player from moving but you'll only ever be safe-guard from like half of them with any given party build. They didn't give DDD the time it needed to iron out the ideas. With at least 2 new games coming fairly soon, I'm not in the mood for a repeat of that.
 
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disney233

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The reason why people prefer SDG than any other playable character traversing through Disney worlds has to be this:
Everyone has been cardboard box personality. Which is a pity.
Spoiler Spoiler Show
They have the chance to develop their characters, but will they ever? Through Disney worlds, it's highly doubtful.
 

okhi12

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I agree that Sora is better than any other character with the Disney characters, but, to be fair, I thought Aqua and Terra were better than Ventus. I loved their interactions with Cinderella anyway.
To be honest I preferred Terra and Aqua in the Enchanted Dominion and the Castle of Dreams. However, although Ventus is my least favorite of the wayfinder trio I still found his interactions in the Dwarf Woodlands, Olympus Coliseum, Deep Space and Neverland to be better than what Terra and Aqua did in those worlds. Maybe because he was actually trying to make friends while the other two were more worried about their respective missions.
 

SweetYetSalty

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I actually preferred Terra and Ven's Disney interactions in comparison to Aqua's. Unpopular opinion but I find Aqua really boring in most of her Disney Worlds. Her personality just didn't bounce off many Disney characters because of how serious she always is. I think I only really like her in Castle of Dreams and Olympus Coliseum, those are few times she showed silly sides to her. In comparison Terra had some unique moments that I feel he doesn't get enough credit for, and Ventus while Sora-lite with a mixture of Roxas, never bored me. Ven was the most lively and felt most at home interacting with Disney characters as I found all his worlds had a level of fun due to his personality.
 

FudgemintGuardian

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The reason why people prefer SDG than any other playable character traversing through Disney worlds has to be this:
Everyone has been cardboard box personality. Which is a pity.
Spoiler Spoiler Show
They have the chance to develop their characters, but will they ever? Through Disney worlds, it's highly doubtful.
And this was one of my biggest fears: everyone's personality becoming "is a good guy." It's partly why the FF crew was such a breath of fresh air. Yuffie and Cid exuded personality, but sadly, only highlights how dull the protagonists have become.

Ienzo wasn't much to talk about either, or Xehanort, or Xemnas, or-
 

disney233

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In comparison Terra had some unique moments that I feel he doesn't get enough credit for, and Ventus while Sora-lite with a mixture of Roxas, never bored me. Ven was the most lively and felt most at home interacting with Disney characters as I found all his worlds had a level of fun due to his personality.
A pity that the only thing I could think of is his moment in Castle of Dreams. Other than that...Terra is the goddamn epitome of gullibility to add on to his cardboard box personality. Even the goddamn idiocy that is DDD Sora knows what a villain is compared to Terra.
 

Elysium

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I also like Terra's moment with the Evil Queen and scaring the bejeebus out of Snow White. I guess I just find Ventus annoying. He's not like Sora, it's sort of a try-hard enthusiasm and brattiness he emits, whereas Sora always feels genuine even if dense. I think the only Disney world I sort of liked Ven in was Deep Space, with Stitch--although Aqua was my overall favorite there, basically being treated like a fellow leader by the Grand Councilwoman.
 

DizneyXBirds95

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Oh yeah that's true! I'd love to return to some of the really old worlds, and even as a different character! THINK OF THE NEW COSTUMES!!!
I'd easily would like to see some of the other characters outside of Sora, Donald, Goofy and to a degree Riku in costume or world transformations.

Can you imagine the transformations/costume that Axel/Lea, Roxas, Xion, Terra, Ventus, Aqua and especially Kairi would look in some of the Disney Worlds.
 

Violet Pluto

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No. Pass. I do not want to give Drop a 2nd chance. It hasn't earned that privilege. I want the products I spend my money on to be fun NOW, not be trial & error experiments for some future product they want me to also spend money on.

Don't experiment with my wallet.
I'm going to give it to you real. Every company ever is experimenting with your wallet. We call things Vanilla because it is the most popular and "Safe and Normal" flavor but people forget only a few hundred years ago Vanilla was the new experimental flavor. KH is the same, it currently works but before that IT was the new experiment. Even if you like vanilla, always having the "Safe" flavor is nice, but people enjoy and it is more profitable to experiment because it may be a siren to people who normally wouldn't give the product a chance. If it doesn't work, you find out why it doesn't, and then innovate. If it does work you find out why it did, and then innovate.

A refusal to experiment is actually detrimental, and can lead to stagnation or worse, closure. This is because a company doesn't exist on it's own and even if it has a stable consumer base all companies want to expand that base, because people, tastes, and times change. This isn't to say that you should only sell the experiments and leave the original fanbase to the sidelines, but that the above comment is not how these things work.
 

MATGSY

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I'm going to give it to you real. Every company ever is experimenting with your wallet. We call things Vanilla because it is the most popular and "Safe and Normal" flavor but people forget only a few hundred years ago Vanilla was the new experimental flavor. KH is the same, it currently works but before that IT was the new experiment. Even if you like vanilla, always having the "Safe" flavor is nice, but people enjoy and it is more profitable to experiment because it may be a siren to people who normally wouldn't give the product a chance. If it doesn't work, you find out why it doesn't, and then innovate. If it does work you find out why it did, and then innovate.

A refusal to experiment is actually detrimental, and can lead to stagnation or worse, closure. This is because a company doesn't exist on it's own and even if it has a stable consumer base all companies want to expand that base, because people, tastes, and times change. This isn't to say that you should only sell the experiments and leave the original fanbase to the sidelines, but that the above comment is not how these things work.
I said in a later post that they can do it internally. Nintendo experiments with stuff for years on end before ever settling in on making a full game around a concept. Common sense in game design should've told Square the Drop system wouldn't cut it.
 

Violet Pluto

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Nah, I afforded for that answer. It is done externally for a reason. Nintendo might test things internally but it's not like they don't sell those experimental games even if they aren't completely error or kink free. Heck, Nintendo's whole console line up for 20 years or more has just been one giant experiment on how to sell to the casual market. If you think about it the Switch is just a upgraded WiiU, and at the time no one wanted another WiiU, in fact 3 or more years ago I was watching videos about leaks and how disappointing the Switch was going to be because it wasn't graphics intensive and wouldn't have amazing battery life, and some said it would flop. They turned the failure of the WiiU (one experiment) into the success of the next.

The big problems with DDD is that it doesn't seem to have been tested at all seeing how bad Flow-motion in that game is, or the balloon spell, or the drops, but I don't think any of these ideas were bad in concept. Most of the time when people say that, they mean that they didn't like how it was executed and cannot see a better way to do so. That does not mean it cannot be done well. People were saying the same thing about 3D movies in the 1950s, and now 3D is a luxury. Flow-motion got it's revival in KH3 and people love it there because it has boundaries and is not nearly as game breaking as in DDD.
 

Face My Fears

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And this was one of my biggest fears: everyone's personality becoming "is a good guy." It's partly why the FF crew was such a breath of fresh air. Yuffie and Cid exuded personality, but sadly, only highlights how dull the protagonists have become.

Ienzo wasn't much to talk about either, or Xehanort, or Xemnas, or-
This is what I'm concerned with in future KH games. Everyone is now good/redeemed. The only person that has any issues or possibility for growth is Sora. The next game really needs to introduce some situations that will challenge the characters they want to move forward with -- from what has been shown, that's probably going to be Riku/Kairi for sure.

I don't know how Yuffie and Cid exuded personality compared to other characters, they were just who they are. Unlike the actual protagonists of KH, the FF characters are in this character limbo like the Disney characters -- what we see is what we get. There is no actual growth compared to the actual protagonists of the game. Especially for a game where all the characters were being redeemed/their stories coming to a close IE they're all becoming "good", it's kind of unfair to say that they're all dull, I think the right way to approach it is that their stories have come to an end. The fact that they had to participate further because of their involvement probably made them seem dull as they're existing beyond what their arc requires.

Anyway, I have high hopes for the future of the series. Nomura is probably over his lowkey resentment towards FF now that he has made
Spoiler Spoiler Show
integral to the future of the series, which also means that he is excited for how to proceed. The team also has figured out how to really use the current engine and gameplay, and even how far they can push the graphics (The Caribbean), so it seems like KH3 helped them a lot. I loved KH3, but I'm glad that it's out of the way so there is WAY less pressure to deliver a game people scream they've been waiting "13 years" for and Nomura can focus on a brand new story/concept instead of having to figure out how to please everyone's expectations.
 

FudgemintGuardian

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This is what I'm concerned with in future KH games. Everyone is now good/redeemed. The only person that has any issues or possibility for growth is Sora. The next game really needs to introduce some situations that will challenge the characters they want to move forward with -- from what has been shown, that's probably going to be Riku/Kairi for sure.

I don't know how Yuffie and Cid exuded personality compared to other characters, they were just who they are. Unlike the actual protagonists of KH, the FF characters are in this character limbo like the Disney characters -- what we see is what we get. There is no actual growth compared to the actual protagonists of the game. Especially for a game where all the characters were being redeemed/their stories coming to a close IE they're all becoming "good", it's kind of unfair to say that they're all dull, I think the right way to approach it is that their stories have come to an end. The fact that they had to participate further because of their involvement probably made them seem dull as they're existing beyond what their arc requires.
Personality is someone's characteristics, how they act/react. I.e, who they are. Not going through some character arc doesn't mean they aren't well-written, and the protagonists who have had arcs have turned into cardboard with the same personality traits written on them.

Not that the original cast doesn't have moments, but comparing their ratio of moments and being furniture with no agency to two characters using their minimal screentime to the fullest while also exhibiting a range of emotion/actions such as being annoyed with each other like freaking people, something the original cast is apparently outright banned from doing now, the original cast has less personality as a whole.
 

Eonstar890

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Personally I would love to see a Destiny Trio focused game instead of another SDG one.

I feel like the real reason everyone has this perception of the main characters as dull is because they barely get any screen time, and when they did in KH3 it was admittedly pretty bland, but if a game was forced to focus on this trio it would really give them a chance to shine and finally actually feel like a trio again.

Riku in DDD was my favorite iteration of him, his personality outside of "dark edgy boy" finally got to shine through and he had real interactions with the disney characters.

Imagine getting to see Sora, Riku, and Kairi having these types of interactions with Disney characters together, the way they would play off each other. Plus having a female approach to the disney worlds would be a breath of fresh air. Not that I don't love the boys, but sometimes a woman's touch is nice too, especially in worlds with princesses and what not.
 

FudgemintGuardian

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Personally I would love to see a Destiny Trio focused game instead of another SDG one.

I feel like the real reason everyone has this perception of the main characters as dull is because they barely get any screen time, and when they did in KH3 it was admittedly pretty bland, but if a game was forced to focus on this trio it would really give them a chance to shine and finally actually feel like a trio again.

Riku in DDD was my favorite iteration of him, his personality outside of "dark edgy boy" finally got to shine through and he had real interactions with the disney characters.

Imagine getting to see Sora, Riku, and Kairi having these types of interactions with Disney characters together, the way they would play off each other. Plus having a female approach to the disney worlds would be a breath of fresh air. Not that I don't love the boys, but sometimes a woman's touch is nice too, especially in worlds with princesses and what not.
^Some of it does have to do with that, but having little screentime is even more of a reason for why they shouldn't have been bland. It's fine if a character isn't always fully "on", so to speak, but the less time a character has, the more often they should be "on" and make good use of their screentime.
 

Elysium

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Riku in DDD was my favorite iteration of him, his personality outside of "dark edgy boy" finally got to shine through and he had real interactions with the disney characters.
I liked Riku when he was playable in 3D, too. I also liked him in CoM, although I wish he'd had interactions with more Disney characters than Mickey and Maleficent. KH3 was the only game where I've found him to be background fodder. I take that as a reflection more on KH3 than the character. I mean, Mickey is also boring in KH3 as compared to his appearances in CoM and KH2.

To the age discussion started below (since I didn't want to make another comment just for that), I actually wish that Nomura would use the excuse of them all going...wherever Sora is as a shenanigans excuse to give them back their KH1 models when they return to the real world after rescuing Sora. They looked better then--although I do like the KH3 clothes. They can keep those outfits. :D
 
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bambii

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I'm ok with commands making a comeback, just PLEASE no de-aging. I like KH3 Kairi very much, thanks.

If anything, they should clearly be made to look older. Was a bit disappointed by the
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SuperNova

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If anything, they should clearly be made to look older.
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Noivern

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Nah, I afforded for that answer. It is done externally for a reason. Nintendo might test things internally but it's not like they don't sell those experimental games even if they aren't completely error or kink free. Heck, Nintendo's whole console line up for 20 years or more has just been one giant experiment on how to sell to the casual market. If you think about it the Switch is just a upgraded WiiU, and at the time no one wanted another WiiU, in fact 3 or more years ago I was watching videos about leaks and how disappointing the Switch was going to be because it wasn't graphics intensive and wouldn't have amazing battery life, and some said it would flop. They turned the failure of the WiiU (one experiment) into the success of the next.

The big problems with DDD is that it doesn't seem to have been tested at all seeing how bad Flow-motion in that game is, or the balloon spell, or the drops, but I don't think any of these ideas were bad in concept. Most of the time when people say that, they mean that they didn't like how it was executed and cannot see a better way to do so. That does not mean it cannot be done well. People were saying the same thing about 3D movies in the 1950s, and now 3D is a luxury. Flow-motion got it's revival in KH3 and people love it there because it has boundaries and is not nearly as game breaking as in DDD.

Not everyone likes Flowmotion in KH3. Besides myself, I know a few other friends who dislike it as well. Regardless, Square as a company is big and rich enough to test things by themselves instead of releasing such a weird project like DDD again, and that was the point MATGSY made (which I completely agree with).

Anyways, I still think Kairi should be the lead of the next game, but I think Kingdom Hearts is missing in personality lately which the latest replies seem to agree. I think we need more of what the first game had back then with the unique artstyle, each character kinda doing its own thing, having their own sense of style. Lately everyone has a Keyblade and flashy moves and it could get stale. I think looking towards the Persona franchise for inspiration could be cool, with more unique quirks to the game's design in the menus and personalities, and maybe some sort of character-interaction system evolving from what D-Links and Summons were. Let us chat with the other Guardians of Light through the gummi phone to get to know them more giving us fun interactions and, as a reward, new abilities, skills, commands and so on.

I would like a Kairi-focused game to be somewhat inspired by what FF-X2 did but not as much; the main games since 2 already have this with the forms which work similarly to the outfits and class system of that game, but imagine befriending Riku through his "buddy-system" giving Kairi a Light-Firaga (aka Dark Firaga, but with Light magic) and, when maxed, the Oblivion Keychain. Befriending Aqua gives us Mine-Square, Xion gives Ars Arcanum finisher, Naminé unlocks KH1 passive abilities or something.
 
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