• Hello everybody! We have tons of new awards for the new year that can be requested through our Awards System thanks to Antifa Lockhart! Some are limited-time awards so go claim them before they are gone forever...

    CLICK HERE FOR AWARDS

Why do you think Roxas, Xion and Namine should return?



REGISTER TO REMOVE ADS
Status
Not open for further replies.

Audo

press △ to sora
Joined
Apr 29, 2015
Messages
5,424
Awards
40
Age
32
Website
avale-reves.tumblr.com
Why is the sole focus on being unique anyway instead of telling a good story? Xion (or anyone) coming back without build-up is what should be viewed as the bad plot development, but that's not the case. It's being built up over four games, and it's clearly not an easy endeavour. It's not "coming out of nowhere" or "pretending they're dead but pulling them back at the last minute" and it's not even out of theme with the rest of the series. And, if anything, it opens up the series to even more possibilities and avenues.

Idk, I don't see nearly this many people complaining about how Sora came back from so-called death in KH1, and yet when the series actually takes its time to do these sorts of developments, and make it something the characters have to earn, that's when people complain?
 

MrFranklin95

Active member
Joined
Feb 3, 2015
Messages
490
Awards
3
Age
29
Location
Los Angeles, California
Website
www.facebook.com
Why is the sole focus on being unique anyway instead of telling a good story? Xion (or anyone) coming back without build-up is what should be viewed as the bad plot development, but that's not the case. It's being built up over four games, and it's clearly not an easy endeavour. It's not "coming out of nowhere" or "pretending they're dead but pulling them back at the last minute" and it's not even out of theme with the rest of the series. And, if anything, it opens up the series to even more possibilities and avenues.

Idk, I don't see nearly this many people complaining about how Sora came back from so-called death in KH1, and yet when the series actually takes its time to do these sorts of developments, and make it something the characters have to earn, that's when people complain?

Ditto. (So that Sora death counts then xD)
 

reimeille

Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2012
Messages
125
Age
27
Location
S. California, USA
Why is the sole focus on being unique anyway instead of telling a good story?

Because that's what makes it a good story for me. I'm... pretty sure I made that clear quite a few times? I've explained it in at least 4 or 5 different ways by now.

Idk, I don't see nearly this many people complaining about how Sora came back from so-called death in KH1, and yet when the series actually takes its time to do these sorts of developments, and make it something the characters have to earn, that's when people complain?

There's no point in complaining about a plotline that already happened. We're just talking about what we'd prefer to see in the future.
 

Sephiroth0812

Guardian of Light
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
10,531
Awards
37
Location
Germany
Idk, I don't see nearly this many people complaining about how Sora came back from so-called death in KH1, and yet when the series actually takes its time to do these sorts of developments, and make it something the characters have to earn, that's when people complain?

I'd actually think that's because Sora has "protagonist bonus" in many people's eyes.

If they had wanted to be thorough and true to those who claim that "sacrifice has only meaning if it is permanent" Sora should actually not have been saved but destroyed/permanently died after his sacrifice and the role of protagonist (and possibly the Keyblade too) going to Kairi who then would have to work with Donald and Goofy to defeat Ansem.
If Riku would then be "saved" after Ansem's defeat or go to hell with him is up to anyone's guess, but the often wanted more "mature" and "realistic" option would certainly have been to kill him off right there.
 

reimeille

Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2012
Messages
125
Age
27
Location
S. California, USA
I'd actually think that's because Sora has "protagonist bonus" in many people's eyes.

If they had wanted to be thorough and true to those who claim that "sacrifice has only meaning if it is permanent" Sora should actually not have been saved but destroyed/permanently died after his sacrifice and the role of protagonist (and possibly the Keyblade too) going to Kairi who then would have to work with Donald and Goofy to defeat Ansem.
If Riku would then be "saved" after Ansem's defeat or go to hell with him is up to anyone's guess, but the often wanted more "mature" and "realistic" option would certainly have been to kill him off right there.

Not to be rude, but this is kinda odd coming from you as you were the one who wanted to point out to me that characters' situations and circumstances aren't all the same.

When the people here were talking about some characters' sacrifice having meaning, we were talking about the 3 subjects of the thread and their specific stories. It wasn't a general statement that everyone that dies must stay down. Each of their positions within the story and the circumstances of their "death"/"merging"/whatever is not the same as Sora and his choice, or Riku and his.

People feel differently about how each should be treated; that doesn't make them hypocritical, unless they specifically state that all characters should stay down. But even then, no one here ever explicitly stated that they were okay with Sora or Riku's survival so it doesn't make sense to assume that either.
 

Audo

press △ to sora
Joined
Apr 29, 2015
Messages
5,424
Awards
40
Age
32
Website
avale-reves.tumblr.com
If Riku would then be "saved" after Ansem's defeat or go to hell with him is up to anyone's guess, but the often wanted more "mature" and "realistic" option would certainly have been to kill him off right there.
And this is what gets me, in many ways we can consider Riku has having been given a birth by sleep just like these characters (he literally starts CoM in sleep, and the title of his scenario is "Rebirth/Reverse"), and we have like, first hand example of how interesting and compelling it can be. Riku's growth of a character after his sacrifice at the end of KH1 up until now has been astronomical. He's pretty much one of the few characters who has such development and it was incredibly compelling and interesting. Like, can you imagine what it would be like if Riku's story ended with KH1? We would have missed out on so much. So much great character work and meaningful developments and growth. And that could be true for all of these characters. Who knows where the story could take them, but the potential is there and it's real and it could be the best thing for this series. Who do Roxas, Xion, Nami, DiZ, Aqua, Ventus, Terra become after being given a second chance? What will they seek, what will they want? How will they grow? The interactions of these characters are some of the most interesting in the series. The Roxas/Sora cutscene in KH3D was one of the best they've had. These are questions that should promote excitement! The Realm of Possibility is full to bursting with them being given second chances -- something that cannot really be said otherwise.

Overall, the most consistent tone of Kingdom Hearts is that it is hopeful. Every single game, no matter how downer the ending, has hope in it. Hope for the future, for these characters. Like, it's a part of this series core fabric. The series' biggest metaphor -- the light in the darkness -- is one of hope. The fact that the literal light of Kingdom Hearts is trapped in the Realm of Darkness is meant to signal this. There was always hope for these characters that they would be given another chance. Even upon Axel's death he expresses hope for himself, Roxas and Naminé -- "Roxas... you have a heart don't you? And, I wonder... do people like Naminé and me... really not have hearts?" -- and Roxas returns hopeful in kind as well, confident that Sora will find the answer for them. Like, no matter the game or character, no matter how bittersweet something is, the series has always maintained that the point wasn't the suffering, the point was that there was hope for something more. KH1 has everyone separated again, but it ends with SDG finding Pluto, with evidence of Mickey's survival. CoM has Sora agree to forget about CO and have his memories fixed, but maintaining the belief that with their promise, Nami and Sora would meet again. CoM has Riku know that the darkness still has a hold on him, but that he is walking the road to dawn. Days has Xion sacrificing herself, but telling Roxas that it's okay, because she'll be part of Sora and that the memories of their time will live on in Sora. BBS literally ends with Blank Points, where, for the first time Aqua cries, but she does it out of hope and the belief that there "will always be a way". Like, shit, people. We get so focused on the tragedy that we don't focus on the final point. There is hope for everyone, and it may not be easy (look how much Riku had to go through to get to the point where he could finally, proudly say, "I'm Riku" at the end of KH3D) but it's possible.

That is Kingdom Heart's larger message -- that there will always be a light in the darkness -- and the idea that a happy ending, after all of that, is too much, too simple, too easy, too predictable or whatever, is just ridiculous to me, and it spits in the face of what this series is about.

And with that, I'm done.


tumblr_mkk6ixOZMz1rku80no2_250.gif
tumblr_mkk6ixOZMz1rku80no3_250.gif

tumblr_mkk6ixOZMz1rku80no1_500.jpg


BIRTH BY SLEEP
AQUA: There is always a way.


KINGDOM HEARTS
MICKEY: Don’t worry. There will always be a door to the light.

 
Last edited:
Joined
Oct 11, 2015
Messages
3,356
Awards
21
Location
Saberworld
And this is what gets me, in many ways we can consider Riku has having been given a birth by sleep just like these characters (he literally starts CoM in sleep, and the title of his scenario is "Rebirth/Reverse"), and we have like, first hand example of how interesting and compelling it can be. Riku's growth of a character after his sacrifice at the end of KH1 up until now has been astronomical. He's pretty much one of the few characters who has such development and it was incredibly compelling and interesting. Like, can you imagine what it would be like if Riku's story ended with KH1? We would have missed out on so much. So much great character work and meaningful developments and growth. And that could be true for all of these characters. Who knows where the story could take them, but the potential is there and it's real and it could be the best thing for this series. Who do Roxas, Xion, Nami, DiZ, Aqua, Ventus, Terra become after being given a second chance? What will they seek, what will they want? How will they grow? The interactions of these characters are some of the most interesting in the series. The Roxas/Sora cutscene in KH3D was one of the best they've had. These are questions that should promote excitement! The Realm of Possibility is full to bursting with them being given second chances -- something that cannot really be said otherwise.

Overall, the most consistent tone of Kingdom Hearts is that it is hopeful. Every single game, no matter how downer the ending, has hope in it. Hope for the future, for these characters. Like, it's a part of this series core fabric. The series' biggest metaphor -- the light in the darkness -- is one of hope. The fact that the literal light of Kingdom Hearts is trapped in the Realm of Darkness is meant to signal this. There was always hope for these characters that they would be given another chance. Even upon Axel's death he expresses hope for himself, Roxas and Naminé -- "Roxas... you have a heart don't you? And, I wonder... do people like Naminé and me... really not have hearts?" -- and Roxas returns hopeful in kind as well, confident that Sora will find the answer for them. Like, no matter the game or character, no matter how bittersweet something is, the series has always maintained that the point wasn't the suffering, the point was that there was hope for something more. KH1 has everyone separated again, but it ends with SDG finding Pluto, with evidence of Mickey's survival. CoM has Sora agree to forget about CO and have his memories fixed, but maintaining the belief that with their promise, Nami and Sora would meet again. CoM has Riku know that the darkness still has a hold on him, but that he is walking the road to dawn. Days has Xion sacrificing herself, but telling Roxas that it's okay, because she'll be part of Sora and that the memories of their time will live on in Sora. BBS literally ends with Blank Points, where, for the first time Aqua cries, but she does it out of hope and the belief that there "will always be a way". Like, shit, people. We get so focused on the tragedy that we don't focus on the final point. There is hope for everyone, and it may not be easy (look how much Riku had to go through to get to the point where he could finally, proudly say, "I'm Riku" at the end of KH3D) but it's possible.

That is Kingdom Heart's larger message -- that there will always be a light in the darkness -- and the idea that a happy ending, after all of that, is too much, too simple, too easy, too predictable or whatever, is just ridiculous to me, and it spits in the face of what this series is about.

And with that, I'm done.


tumblr_mkk6ixOZMz1rku80no2_250.gif
tumblr_mkk6ixOZMz1rku80no3_250.gif

tumblr_mkk6ixOZMz1rku80no1_500.jpg


BIRTH BY SLEEP
AQUA: There is always a way.


KINGDOM HEARTS
MICKEY: Don’t worry. There will always be a door to the light.

Is it odd that I cried reading this? Because I pretty much cried from how well written and well though out this was.
 

BlackOsprey

Hell yeah
Joined
Jul 5, 2015
Messages
4,520
Awards
20
And this is what gets me, in many ways we can consider Riku has having been given a birth by sleep just like these characters (he literally starts CoM in sleep, and the title of his scenario is "Rebirth/Reverse"), and we have like, first hand example of how interesting and compelling it can be. Riku's growth of a character after his sacrifice at the end of KH1 up until now has been astronomical. He's pretty much one of the few characters who has such development and it was incredibly compelling and interesting. Like, can you imagine what it would be like if Riku's story ended with KH1? We would have missed out on so much. So much great character work and meaningful developments and growth. And that could be true for all of these characters. Who knows where the story could take them, but the potential is there and it's real and it could be the best thing for this series. Who do Roxas, Xion, Nami, DiZ, Aqua, Ventus, Terra become after being given a second chance? What will they seek, what will they want? How will they grow? The interactions of these characters are some of the most interesting in the series. The Roxas/Sora cutscene in KH3D was one of the best they've had. These are questions that should promote excitement! The Realm of Possibility is full to bursting with them being given second chances -- something that cannot really be said otherwise.

Overall, the most consistent tone of Kingdom Hearts is that it is hopeful. Every single game, no matter how downer the ending, has hope in it. Hope for the future, for these characters. Like, it's a part of this series core fabric. The series' biggest metaphor -- the light in the darkness -- is one of hope. The fact that the literal light of Kingdom Hearts is trapped in the Realm of Darkness is meant to signal this. There was always hope for these characters that they would be given another chance. Even upon Axel's death he expresses hope for himself, Roxas and Naminé -- "Roxas... you have a heart don't you? And, I wonder... do people like Naminé and me... really not have hearts?" -- and Roxas returns hopeful in kind as well, confident that Sora will find the answer for them. Like, no matter the game or character, no matter how bittersweet something is, the series has always maintained that the point wasn't the suffering, the point was that there was hope for something more. KH1 has everyone separated again, but it ends with SDG finding Pluto, with evidence of Mickey's survival. CoM has Sora agree to forget about CO and have his memories fixed, but maintaining the belief that with their promise, Nami and Sora would meet again. CoM has Riku know that the darkness still has a hold on him, but that he is walking the road to dawn. Days has Xion sacrificing herself, but telling Roxas that it's okay, because she'll be part of Sora and that the memories of their time will live on in Sora. BBS literally ends with Blank Points, where, for the first time Aqua cries, but she does it out of hope and the belief that there "will always be a way". Like, shit, people. We get so focused on the tragedy that we don't focus on the final point. There is hope for everyone, and it may not be easy (look how much Riku had to go through to get to the point where he could finally, proudly say, "I'm Riku" at the end of KH3D) but it's possible.

That is Kingdom Heart's larger message -- that there will always be a light in the darkness -- and the idea that a happy ending, after all of that, is too much, too simple, too easy, too predictable or whatever, is just ridiculous to me, and it spits in the face of what this series is about.

And with that, I'm done.


tumblr_mkk6ixOZMz1rku80no2_250.gif
tumblr_mkk6ixOZMz1rku80no3_250.gif

tumblr_mkk6ixOZMz1rku80no1_500.jpg


BIRTH BY SLEEP
AQUA: There is always a way.


KINGDOM HEARTS
MICKEY: Don’t worry. There will always be a door to the light.

giphy.gif
 

Sephiroth0812

Guardian of Light
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
10,531
Awards
37
Location
Germany
Not to be rude, but this is kinda odd coming from you as you were the one who wanted to point out to me that characters' situations and circumstances aren't all the same.

When the people here were talking about some characters' sacrifice having meaning, we were talking about the 3 subjects of the thread and their specific stories. It wasn't a general statement that everyone that dies must stay down. Each of their positions within the story and the circumstances of their "death"/"merging"/whatever is not the same as Sora and his choice, or Riku and his.

People feel differently about how each should be treated; that doesn't make them hypocritical, unless they specifically state that all characters should stay down. But even then, no one here ever explicitly stated that they were okay with Sora or Riku's survival so it doesn't make sense to assume that either.

It is intended to be odd actually as I'm deliberately exaggerating, if I knew an appropriate smiley to use in order to better convey that through text while still underlining a serious tone I would do so in a heartbeat. ;P

Except you see, I do not see their sacrifices losing any meaning just because they get to have their second chance. The consequences, influence and repercussions of these sacrifices on the wider series does remain by the simply fact that they did happen regardless of their permanence.
The specific circumstances of these 3 subjects (at least two as Naminé's situation is a little iffy) are however that they were forced into situations with no way out except the sacrifice by outside forces, be them Xemnas and the Organisation or DiZ/Naminé/Riku trying to put Sora together again and any notion of being content with their fate came only after the fact for Roxas (as he was literally strongarmed into the whole thing) and that content is only because of resignation of there being no choice, they're ok with it not because they want to, but because they have to.

Except that if a way exist to help all of them in in-universe terms (which has been hinted for more than one game by now) it would need a very heavy and convincing actual story reason as to why some of them can be saved and some can't. That everything can have a heart was hinted at since Chain of Memories and that is a proof of existence/an individual so the premise is already set and if everything is taken together the vast build up actually makes sense in context of the whole series.
Even with the much loathed Xion the reason that everyone "forgot" her doesn't mean squat as in CoM it was already established that memories are not only one of the primary parts of a heart but that they're truly immortal, so the memories of Xion and her own memories still exist and it is only a matter of how they can be dug up to the surface. It does not make the whole thing not impossible, only more difficult than other cases.

And this is what gets me, in many ways we can consider Riku has having been given a birth by sleep just like these characters (he literally starts CoM in sleep, and the title of his scenario is "Rebirth/Reverse"), and we have like, first hand example of how interesting and compelling it can be. Riku's growth of a character after his sacrifice at the end of KH1 up until now has been astronomical. He's pretty much one of the few characters who has such development and it was incredibly compelling and interesting. Like, can you imagine what it would be like if Riku's story ended with KH1? We would have missed out on so much. So much great character work and meaningful developments and growth. And that could be true for all of these characters. Who knows where the story could take them, but the potential is there and it's real and it could be the best thing for this series. Who do Roxas, Xion, Nami, DiZ, Aqua, Ventus, Terra become after being given a second chance? What will they seek, what will they want? How will they grow? The interactions of these characters are some of the most interesting in the series. The Roxas/Sora cutscene in KH3D was one of the best they've had. These are questions that should promote excitement! The Realm of Possibility is full to bursting with them being given second chances -- something that cannot really be said otherwise.

Overall, the most consistent tone of Kingdom Hearts is that it is hopeful. Every single game, no matter how downer the ending, has hope in it. Hope for the future, for these characters. Like, it's a part of this series core fabric. The series' biggest metaphor -- the light in the darkness -- is one of hope. The fact that the literal light of Kingdom Hearts is trapped in the Realm of Darkness is meant to signal this. There was always hope for these characters that they would be given another chance. Even upon Axel's death he expresses hope for himself, Roxas and Naminé -- "Roxas... you have a heart don't you? And, I wonder... do people like Naminé and me... really not have hearts?" -- and Roxas returns hopeful in kind as well, confident that Sora will find the answer for them. Like, no matter the game or character, no matter how bittersweet something is, the series has always maintained that the point wasn't the suffering, the point was that there was hope for something more. KH1 has everyone separated again, but it ends with SDG finding Pluto, with evidence of Mickey's survival. CoM has Sora agree to forget about CO and have his memories fixed, but maintaining the belief that with their promise, Nami and Sora would meet again. CoM has Riku know that the darkness still has a hold on him, but that he is walking the road to dawn. Days has Xion sacrificing herself, but telling Roxas that it's okay, because she'll be part of Sora and that the memories of their time will live on in Sora. BBS literally ends with Blank Points, where, for the first time Aqua cries, but she does it out of hope and the belief that there "will always be a way". Like, shit, people. We get so focused on the tragedy that we don't focus on the final point. There is hope for everyone, and it may not be easy (look how much Riku had to go through to get to the point where he could finally, proudly say, "I'm Riku" at the end of KH3D) but it's possible.

That is Kingdom Heart's larger message -- that there will always be a light in the darkness -- and the idea that a happy ending, after all of that, is too much, too simple, too easy, too predictable or whatever, is just ridiculous to me, and it spits in the face of what this series is about.

And with that, I'm done.


tumblr_mkk6ixOZMz1rku80no2_250.gif
tumblr_mkk6ixOZMz1rku80no3_250.gif

tumblr_mkk6ixOZMz1rku80no1_500.jpg


BIRTH BY SLEEP
AQUA: There is always a way.


KINGDOM HEARTS
MICKEY: Don’t worry. There will always be a door to the light.


Funny you mention the start of Reverse/Rebirth as that is exactly the example I think we got to see "Birth by Sleep" in action the first time too.
Later on Ansem SoD also speaks about "awakening" when Riku's remembers him and in KH 2 it is the three fairies remembering Maleficent what triggers her return.

That being said, I'd like to applause this whole post of yours as it is really beautiful and captures what the essence of the KH series really is.
Couldn't have said it any better. ^__^
 
Joined
Jan 6, 2011
Messages
68
Awards
4
Age
26
Location
U.S.A
And this is what gets me, in many ways we can consider Riku has having been given a birth by sleep just like these characters (he literally starts CoM in sleep, and the title of his scenario is "Rebirth/Reverse"), and we have like, first hand example of how interesting and compelling it can be. Riku's growth of a character after his sacrifice at the end of KH1 up until now has been astronomical. He's pretty much one of the few characters who has such development and it was incredibly compelling and interesting. Like, can you imagine what it would be like if Riku's story ended with KH1? We would have missed out on so much. So much great character work and meaningful developments and growth. And that could be true for all of these characters. Who knows where the story could take them, but the potential is there and it's real and it could be the best thing for this series. Who do Roxas, Xion, Nami, DiZ, Aqua, Ventus, Terra become after being given a second chance? What will they seek, what will they want? How will they grow? The interactions of these characters are some of the most interesting in the series. The Roxas/Sora cutscene in KH3D was one of the best they've had. These are questions that should promote excitement! The Realm of Possibility is full to bursting with them being given second chances -- something that cannot really be said otherwise.

Overall, the most consistent tone of Kingdom Hearts is that it is hopeful. Every single game, no matter how downer the ending, has hope in it. Hope for the future, for these characters. Like, it's a part of this series core fabric. The series' biggest metaphor -- the light in the darkness -- is one of hope. The fact that the literal light of Kingdom Hearts is trapped in the Realm of Darkness is meant to signal this. There was always hope for these characters that they would be given another chance. Even upon Axel's death he expresses hope for himself, Roxas and Naminé -- "Roxas... you have a heart don't you? And, I wonder... do people like Naminé and me... really not have hearts?" -- and Roxas returns hopeful in kind as well, confident that Sora will find the answer for them. Like, no matter the game or character, no matter how bittersweet something is, the series has always maintained that the point wasn't the suffering, the point was that there was hope for something more. KH1 has everyone separated again, but it ends with SDG finding Pluto, with evidence of Mickey's survival. CoM has Sora agree to forget about CO and have his memories fixed, but maintaining the belief that with their promise, Nami and Sora would meet again. CoM has Riku know that the darkness still has a hold on him, but that he is walking the road to dawn. Days has Xion sacrificing herself, but telling Roxas that it's okay, because she'll be part of Sora and that the memories of their time will live on in Sora. BBS literally ends with Blank Points, where, for the first time Aqua cries, but she does it out of hope and the belief that there "will always be a way". Like, shit, people. We get so focused on the tragedy that we don't focus on the final point. There is hope for everyone, and it may not be easy (look how much Riku had to go through to get to the point where he could finally, proudly say, "I'm Riku" at the end of KH3D) but it's possible.

That is Kingdom Heart's larger message -- that there will always be a light in the darkness -- and the idea that a happy ending, after all of that, is too much, too simple, too easy, too predictable or whatever, is just ridiculous to me, and it spits in the face of what this series is about.

And with that, I'm done.


tumblr_mkk6ixOZMz1rku80no2_250.gif
tumblr_mkk6ixOZMz1rku80no3_250.gif

tumblr_mkk6ixOZMz1rku80no1_500.jpg


BIRTH BY SLEEP
AQUA: There is always a way.


KINGDOM HEARTS
MICKEY: Don’t worry. There will always be a door to the light.


A well-written, phenomenal, and tear-jerking post of epic proportions.
 

Wander

New member
Joined
Apr 19, 2013
Messages
267
Because Sora wants them to come back (at least Roxas and Namine), and in KH3 he will find the means to do it, that's literally the in-universe reason it's happening. It's the reason half the scenes in DDD exist.

But let's be honest, the real really real reason is because they're fan favourite characters. It's the same reason Axel is still around despite the script having him suppose to die three times already. Or Xemnas. Or Ansem. Or Xigbar. Nomura is not above making absurd plot points just to cater to his personal favourites, which is the reason most things in Kingdom Hearts happens anyway.

"But Lea isn't Axel"
Yes he absolutely, one hundred per cent, undeniably is. Be quiet.
 

No Heart

New member
Joined
Apr 14, 2016
Messages
50
I don't really think they should return as separate characters. After all, that would be denying everything in KH 2 and also at the same time, it would be as if saying that everything can be happy and all. Instead, they should return in Dive to the Heart when Sora is defeated by Xehanort since I think this will be a two act game like KH 2 in a way. Then, they help him grow or something like that. I mean, there is no need for Roxas to truly exist.
 

VoidGear.

red gay
Joined
Jun 6, 2015
Messages
5,594
Awards
57
Age
29
Location
Germany
denying everything in KH 2 and also at the same time

Like what? The lies we were told about nobodies not having their own hearts or...?

I have to say I can't agree that a happy ending justifies having been abused...
 

Master Exin

Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2016
Messages
248
Awards
2
Location
England, UK
Even after reading all these comments from these very honest people, I still feel doubt about this. If in the end of Kingdom Hearts III, it turns out all our heroes live happily ever after in the end, I fear it may suck the realism and tragedy out of it. Sure it's about hope and light and all that, but it's also about sacrifices.

Like in the recent Pixar film Inside Out, when Bing Bong gave up his existance for Joy to find a way back. Or when in Star Wars, Obi-Wan gave up his life for Luke Skywalker to escape, they had some weight to it. It gave the resolution a bigger impact, because there was a risk, and in life, risks have to be taken.

I want to see that in this series, I want to see choices be made, I want to see risks be taken, I want to feel the impact that these sacrifices give to the resolution. I want to see our heroes remember those who gave their lives to bring light to dark, hope to despair, freedom to oppression. I want to see that tiny hopeful light in the middle of bleak darkness shine brighter than ever before. But I fear I may not see any of that in Kingdom Hearts III.
 

VoidGear.

red gay
Joined
Jun 6, 2015
Messages
5,594
Awards
57
Age
29
Location
Germany
but it's also about sacrifices.

Since when really?
Sure, sacrifices happened in KH, but it's not the theme of the game. The themes have always been friendship and hope and the light that can conquer all.

I want to see that in this series, I want to see choices be made, I want to see risks be taken

The risks ARE being taken.
Even if characters are saved, that doesn't change the heart-breaking shit they've been through. It doesn't change their existential crisis, the fact that they have been used or abused or even actively hurt their own friends.
Riku has been a good guy for multiple games now. Does that revise the bad things he did in KH1? Definitely not.
 
Joined
Oct 11, 2015
Messages
3,356
Awards
21
Location
Saberworld
Since when really?
Sure, sacrifices happened in KH, but it's not the theme of the game. The themes have always been friendship and hope and the light that can conquer all.



The risks ARE being taken.
Even if characters are saved, that doesn't change the heart-breaking shit they've been through. It doesn't change their existential crisis, the fact that they have been used or abused or even actively hurt their own friends.
Riku has been a good guy for multiple games now. Does that revise the bad things he did in KH1? Definitely not.
Pretty much agree with this.
 

BlackOsprey

Hell yeah
Joined
Jul 5, 2015
Messages
4,520
Awards
20
Even after reading all these comments from these very honest people, I still feel doubt about this. If in the end of Kingdom Hearts III, it turns out all our heroes live happily ever after in the end, I fear it may suck the realism and tragedy out of it.
the realism and tragedy
...

Dude.

The very premise of Kingdom Hearts is fundamentally antithetical to realism. You're combining Disney, a childhood-fantasy behemoth, and a franchise that literally has "Fantasy" in the name, and somehow the idea of the characters Earning Their Happy Ending seems too Farfetch'd here, even when the Disney core is full of that kind of thing?

Let's address the idea that Mickey Mouse and Cloud Strife can exist in the same world (along with the fact that we're dealing with a talking anthropomorphic mouse and a guy who can use the diddlying Buster Sword), or how darkness zombies are running around trying to rip people's spirits out, or how the heart isn't a bloody muscle but rather the culmination of your being, of how a blunt, oversized key can cut like a sword and slice skyscrapers to pieces... before we start talking realism.


I want to see that in this series, I want to see choices be made, I want to see risks be taken, I want to feel the impact that these sacrifices give to the resolution. I want to see our heroes remember those who gave their lives to bring light to dark, hope to despair, freedom to oppression. I want to see that tiny hopeful light in the middle of bleak darkness shine brighter than ever before. But I fear I may not see any of that in Kingdom Hearts III.
Eh, that would be nice and all if most of the "dead" characters'd had much of a choice in the matter. Xion and Roxas certainly didn't; both were pretty much forced to give up their existences. They couldn't have escaped their fates no matter what they did. Roxas was literally beaten unconscious so DiZ could drag him into Virtual Twilight Town. You call that a choice? What Roxas and Xion did wasn't sacrifice... it was pretty much giving up because there was nothing they could do that would make their situation any better.
 

Master Exin

Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2016
Messages
248
Awards
2
Location
England, UK
Since when really?
Sure, sacrifices happened in KH, but it's not the theme of the game. The themes have always been friendship and hope and the light that can conquer all.

The risks ARE being taken.
Even if characters are saved, that doesn't change the heart-breaking shit they've been through. It doesn't change their existential crisis, the fact that they have been used or abused or even actively hurt their own friends.
Riku has been a good guy for multiple games now. Does that revise the bad things he did in KH1? Definitely not.
Sorry, but It's how I felt. Besides, I wasn't referring to Riku anyway. I guess we'll have to take things with a grain of salt. :confused:

The very premise of Kingdom Hearts is fundamentally antithetical to realism. You're combining Disney, a childhood-fantasy behemoth, and a franchise that literally has "Fantasy" in the name, and somehow the idea of the characters Earning Their Happy Ending seems too Farfetch'd here, even when the Disney core is full of that kind of thing?

Eh, that would be nice and all if most of the "dead" characters'd had much of a choice in the matter. Xion and Roxas certainly didn't; both were pretty much forced to give up their existences- they couldn't have escaped their fates no matter what they did. Roxas was literally beaten unconscious so DiZ could drag him into Virtual Twilight Town. You call that a choice? What Roxas and Xion did wasn't sacrifice... it was pretty much giving up because there was nothing they could do that would make their situation any better.
Mate, have you even seen Inside Out? Some people have to accept fate. I'm sorry, but it's how I felt, okay? Take things with a grain of salt.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top