The Identity of Chirithy's Master

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That's the underlying main problem I think the series has as a whole. Nomura has many great and undoubtly highly creative ideas and makes some neat concepts for these, but when it comes to fleshing these concepts and ideas out and properly present them to the audience it falls flat in at least 7 of 10 cases leaving one facepalming at the execution of something that comes over mediocre but could be awesome otherwise.
Yep, and by mentioning this "missing page" from the prophecy-book as well as the "prophecy" plainly stating "the Darkness wins", Nomura is setting up one of his by now infamous twist filibusters, as seldom does anything that is stated totally clearly actually happen like it is stated in this series.
Nomura makes this setup plainly for throwing more surprises into it.

It annoys me specifically because it was first stated to be otherwise actually. If this goes on the KH series will eventually have an universe that is like a "city" but where of every building only the foundation walls are raised up. Instead of truly finishing the buildings that are there, each time there are put up foundation walls for a new one.

Agreed. He's kinda like kubo in that regard. Kubo, the author of bleach and maker of Aizen, has decent ideas but he's just extremely horrible at story. The manga literally went to shit after the first few volumes. Nomura writes better easily but it's similar.
Sadly for him his method of "surprising" is easily figured out by at least one fan somewhere.

I think the series is already like such a city. Now even adding playgrounds for fun only to renovate it into something less fun later.

Luckily it seems that an actual FF X-3 is not even planned (yet?). As much as I disliked FF X-2 for several reasons, I think the 100% ending of that one gave a satisfying close on Spira and the FFX-Universe as a whole.

Or Nomura has too many ideas and mixes them up in the worst possible combinations. It being done for "surprise" is also again a factor that needs to be considered, as many of the alternate interpretations and scenarios done by fans to get exactly the same result that DDD showed without the time travel often are 99,99% simpler than Nomura's used version. Maybe Nomura truly does not like "simple" at all?

Blegh, that's why I'd rather forego it being used in any central manner ever again.

It's actually an issue I have a slight hope for KH III to remedy a little. Let them interact, damnit, and not just in a "heart"-to-"heart" connection dream jumbo...<__<
As far as KH goes, nope, purple eyes seem to be not among the characters so far. Of course, in Anime purple eyes in different shades are more common, but I think Seymour Guado from FF X also has purple eyes.

While it is certainly not as bad as the FF or Sonic-fandom, the KH fanbase does indeed have a whole plethora of base breakers and "dueling fandom" aspects that sometimes makes it really strenuous to enjoy the series as a whole or have (like me) several favorite characters I like equally (for example I hate it when fans go and play characters like Roxas and Ven or Naminé and Xion against each other).

I'm not sure on X-3 myself. I didn't like X-2's ending. It felt like I was playing a game of Yuna learning to live for herself and move on only for SE to appease a section of their shipper fans and bring Tidus back....This may be another one of those topics for another thread. >3>

I think to some extend Nomura is just worried and trying to hard as well. He was given a standalone that blew up into more and now he is finally getting to 3 which is all fans have really desired for a decade now. The stress must be huge~

To be honest I'll be heavily disappointed too if Ven, Vanitas, Roxas and Sora aren't all face to face at least once.

Due to it's own trappings of system spread you've honestly ended up with a pantheon of fans for specific titles or characters than an entire series which causes that. FF is similar but it's individual stories by intention. Sonic on the other hand....yeah.

I think the problem with the narrative with long-standing series like Kingdom Hearts is not unique in storytelling, especially not among videogames, but I definitely agree that most of them are indeed caused by Nomura's "obsession" to connect everything.

But unlike you, Sephiroth and Anagram, I don't think he did and does this because it just doesn't know better. We all know videogames are developed in cycles, you leave enough open questions and plot points that may be explored in further games and may even develop some concepts (like the secret movies in KH and KHII) but apart from that everything can change along the way.
Another important fact to point out is that Nomura doesn't have 100% control of the franchise, or do you really think he would have split the series on so many platforms in the first place? No, it's the other way around, the higher ups of Square Enix decide releasing a Kingdom Hearts game for a certain console would be a great idea (because market research and stuff) so someone has to make it, even a stupid freemium game about collecting thousands of cards with little gameplay whatsoever.
It's my firm believe that Nomura simply tries to make the best of the situation, even trying to give a simple browser game a reason to exist, because he adapts the overaching story for it. If you followed the development of [chi] you can clearly see that it was a different game in the beginning, at least story-wise, but got more and more fleshed out along the way when Nomura became more involved with it, the story became more "Kingdom-Hearts-y" so to speak. It simply doesn't work any other way, look how Nintendo embarrassed itself with the Legend of Zelda timeline.

From the perspective of a clean narrative it probably would have been better to exclude handheld, mobile and mindless brower games from the canon, but there is always a chance to explore a different perspective or see how the gameplay can also affect the story in a different way. It never works 100% but when does it ever?

We mentioned that in our long discussion here somewhere. We're perfectly aware most titles weren't intended by Nomura so we haven't forgotten or ignore it per say. Heck even Chain of Memories wasn't intended. Only KH1, 2 and BBS had initial forethought.

While Nomura does do his best in the situation blame still falls onto him for how he's handled some things. There are ways it could've been simpler but still complex. Ways fans could understand without resorting to misinformed wikis or interviews. However I think the most of his blame in the console spread isn't the titles themselves but merely the relevance he put on them. He alienated the fanbase among itself this way. Sure you can youtube or get the games for what systems you do have but not everyone is gonna buy systems and consoles to keep up with one long interconnected story.
This was his fault. He shouldn't have had each and every title so plot heavy. Having them good, written well and full of feels, sure. But not to the point the handhelds completely changed the direction of the series to the point you need them to know what's happening which leads to having to port and remaster them to one system.

 

[ShardofTruth]

While Nomura does do his best in the situation blame still falls onto him for how he's handled some things. There are ways it could've been simpler but still complex.

I guess you are talking about some sort of side stories (which in my opinion coded and 358/2 Days essentially are) otherwise you only would have re-tellings or mindless filler. Do you have a good example if something like this ever worked for video games?

Ways fans could understand without resorting to misinformed wikis or interviews.

No wonder the wikis are misinformed with all this difficult storyline to follow, I guess you are not misinformed at all.:wink:
Besides that Dream Drop Distance makes some effort to summarize the plot points of previous games, I guess it will be the same for Kingdom Hearts III.

However I think the most of his blame in the console spread isn't the titles themselves but merely the relevance he put on them. He alienated the fanbase among itself this way. Sure you can youtube or get the games for what systems you do have but not everyone is gonna buy systems and consoles to keep up with one long interconnected story.
This was his fault.

Again with the relevance, should every side-game be as relevant as the V-cast title or what do you have in mind? You need to play or at least watch every Kingdom Hearts game to get every bit of story, that's a fact. But how is this a faulty concept? Yes, these titles were spread on different consoles (over the course of 13 years!) but if you waited or want to catch up you only need a PS3 and a 3DS now to play all titles, that isn't so bad.

He shouldn't have had each and every title so plot heavy. Having them good, written well and full of feels, sure. But not to the point the handhelds completely changed the direction of the series to the point you need them to know what's happening which leads to having to port and remaster them to one system.

I still don't see how this will ever work out so you can happily dismiss the game because it's not important in the overall scheme and the game being a Kingdom Hearts game at the same time that some of the fans want to play.

 

[Alpha Baymax]

Nomura said that the Master of Master is "eccentric"... does that mean that he's a nutter or mad scientist sort of character?
I don't want to make bland generalisations, but I think it'd be cool if we have a wild and coo-coo character in the series for once.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

Agreed. He's kinda like kubo in that regard. Kubo, the author of bleach and maker of Aizen, has decent ideas but he's just extremely horrible at story. The manga literally went to shit after the first few volumes. Nomura writes better easily but it's similar.
Sadly for him his method of "surprising" is easily figured out by at least one fan somewhere.

I think the series is already like such a city. Now even adding playgrounds for fun only to renovate it into something less fun later.


I'm not sure on X-3 myself. I didn't like X-2's ending. It felt like I was playing a game of Yuna learning to live for herself and move on only for SE to appease a section of their shipper fans and bring Tidus back....This may be another one of those topics for another thread. >3>

I think to some extend Nomura is just worried and trying to hard as well. He was given a standalone that blew up into more and now he is finally getting to 3 which is all fans have really desired for a decade now. The stress must be huge~

To be honest I'll be heavily disappointed too if Ven, Vanitas, Roxas and Sora aren't all face to face at least once.

Due to it's own trappings of system spread you've honestly ended up with a pantheon of fans for specific titles or characters than an entire series which causes that. FF is similar but it's individual stories by intention. Sonic on the other hand....yeah.

Nomura may possibly write better, yet it is obviously similar enough to still result in a mess or otherwise we wouldn't have this discussion at all. I have certainly seen worse stories than KH and since I mostly see it as a lighthearted thing anyways I personally can look past quite some flaws easily, but it would be stupid not to name these flaws and acknowledge that from its given basic assets KH could be several levels better if more care would be put into the pacing and storytelling itself.
Yep, or it is so ridiculous people facepalm because they realize it was put in bluntly for surprise/shock value instead of actually enriching the story.

A city that is in fact a whole, incomplete construction site I'd say.

The thing with Tidus possibly coming back was already in the final scene of the original FFX though with him swimming towards the surface of the ocean, so I don't think it was done solely for shipping purposes.

Time might also be a factor in it as well as the issue of Nomura always being engaged in several projects at once. If he had more time and "peace" to plan the next step in the KH series without other interferences, I'd wager that KH's quality would also get a boost solely from that.

I'm honestly delighted to hear this, lol. The lack of interaction, especially between Sora & Ven as well as Sora & Roxas is something that always bothered me since BBS. Roxas and Ven would be very interesting solely for all the possible ways it can go as well as in an out-of-universe-view it would to wonders to (hopefully) finally bury this deplorable "Ven and Roxas are the same entity"-mindset for good.

Makes one wonder if at least part of the confusion and "split" between the fanbases could have been avoided by not having the damn system/console spread to begin with. The attempt to remedy this situation with the HD Remasters is worth to recognize, but it does not seem to have fully the desired effect.
The FF series is, at least in my view, actually suited much better for a console spread than KH especially because it has no interconnected overaching story apart from some titles who actually have sequels/prequels like IV, VII, X and XIII.
I'm not into Sonic at all, do not even have a single game of that series, yet I know that its fanbase has one of the worst reputations out there.

I still don't see how this will ever work out so you can happily dismiss the game because it's not important in the overall scheme and the game being a Kingdom Hearts game at the same time that some of the fans want to play.

Isn't the initial premise of x[chi] a perfect example for it?
I still remember when chi originally was first released it was stated that if would have no bearings on the story of the main series, and thus being "dismissable" or at least not needed to get the crucial points of the story.
After a few months, there was suddenly this "Foreteller's script" which was stated to have a bearing on the main story and another little time later suddenly the whole thing is "crucial" to the story of KH III and the series as a whole.

It's not so much about the entry in question having content that is connected to the overall scheme, but it having content that is crucial to understand the overall scheme.
I remember the initial premise of KH III was to save a bunch of suffering people and finally kick Xehanort's ass for good, now these are pushed into the background in favor of some ancient prophecies and conspiracies never heard of before that may or may not bring about the apocalypse itself.

Nomura said that the Master of Master is "eccentric"... does that mean that he's a nutter or mad scientist sort of character?
I don't want to make bland generalisations, but I think it'd be cool if we have a wild and coo-coo character in the series for once.

We already have a wild mad scientist though with Even/Vexen.

 

[BlackOsprey]

Nomura said that the Master of Master is "eccentric"... does that mean that he's a nutter or mad scientist sort of character?
I don't want to make bland generalisations, but I think it'd be cool if we have a wild and coo-coo character in the series for once.

I don't think he would make a figure like the freaking Master of Masters a complete loon. "Eccentric" doesn't always mean crazy, just... unusual. If this guy is anything like my history teachers, I'd say he'd be unusual enough, but still sane. Maybe he's not your conventional "wise mentor guy" like we see in Yen Sid.

 

[Anagram]

I guess you are talking about some sort of side stories (which in my opinion coded and 358/2 Days essentially are) otherwise you only would have re-tellings or mindless filler. Do you have a good example if something like this ever worked for video games?

No not retellings. Some might be filler but all in all just brief stories to tell.
The Assassin's Creed series is one example. It's main story is on the consoles like KH but more than once it's had stories on hanhelds or other devices that expanded a characters story without hampering the main story of it's console origin. Altair and Ezio both had handhelds entries and that's naming two of the main and most well known characters.

No wonder the wikis are misinformed with all this difficult storyline to follow, I guess you are not misinformed at all.:wink:
Besides that Dream Drop Distance makes some effort to summarize the plot points of previous games, I guess it will be the same for Kingdom Hearts III.

The wikis aren't misinformed with storyline but the background. The inner workings that aren't put into the main medium which is the games as they should be.
Do you really think it's effort is enough though? Having to have remixes or basically essays or writing in a game to detail everything needed in a story for it's own fans is a bad thing.

Again with the relevance, should every side-game be as relevant as the V-cast title or what do you have in mind? You need to play or at least watch every Kingdom Hearts game to get every bit of story, that's a fact. But how is this a faulty concept? Yes, these titles were spread on different consoles (over the course of 13 years!) but if you waited or want to catch up you only need a PS3 and a 3DS now to play all titles, that isn't so bad.

I still don't see how this will ever work out so you can happily dismiss the game because it's not important in the overall scheme and the game being a Kingdom Hearts game at the same time that some of the fans want to play.

Sephiroth0812 done answered your question. The fact that you need to know every story as something crucial is the problem. It alienates resulting in divided fanbases like this, leaves some behind with story who will lose interest, makes the story itself hard to follow and so on.
Nothing as simple as V-cast. Every game should merely be like Coded. The story can add to the series, it's story alone even being good, but it's not crucial to play it so that you can keep up with the series. That's the kinda relevancy a handheld game should have for a mainly console series. the 13yrs is no excuse for the amount of console spread. Nor is the console spread excusable or alleviated. The remixes were supposed to fix the issue but now you just have the games divided between PS3, 4 and phones.

On the flip side I dont see how anyone can dismiss things as they are. Accepting we can't help the situation I understand but not seeing that it's a problem I do not.
I dont see how the series as is could be considered to work when around every turn they're having to do things in order to help their own fans understand their series by constantly remaking or porting a former title. You must keep in mind many skipped the PS3 and just like console spread has always been no ones is gonna shell out cash for it now when it's at the end of it's lifecycle just to keep up with a series that many long time fans are only sticking around till KH3.

Sephiroth0812 probably explained it better with his chi example but I think you get what we mean now right? D=

Nomura may possibly write better, yet it is obviously similar enough to still result in a mess or otherwise we wouldn't have this discussion at all. I have certainly seen worse stories than KH and since I mostly see it as a lighthearted thing anyways I personally can look past quite some flaws easily, but it would be stupid not to name these flaws and acknowledge that from its given basic assets KH could be several levels better if more care would be put into the pacing and storytelling itself.
Yep, or it is so ridiculous people facepalm because they realize it was put in bluntly for surprise/shock value instead of actually enriching the story.

A city that is in fact a whole, incomplete construction site I'd say.

The thing with Tidus possibly coming back was already in the final scene of the original FFX though with him swimming towards the surface of the ocean, so I don't think it was done solely for shipping purposes.

Time might also be a factor in it as well as the issue of Nomura always being engaged in several projects at once. If he had more time and "peace" to plan the next step in the KH series without other interferences, I'd wager that KH's quality would also get a boost solely from that.

I'm honestly delighted to hear this, lol. The lack of interaction, especially between Sora & Ven as well as Sora & Roxas is something that always bothered me since BBS. Roxas and Ven would be very interesting solely for all the possible ways it can go as well as in an out-of-universe-view it would to wonders to (hopefully) finally bury this deplorable "Ven and Roxas are the same entity"-mindset for good.

Makes one wonder if at least part of the confusion and "split" between the fanbases could have been avoided by not having the damn system/console spread to begin with. The attempt to remedy this situation with the HD Remasters is worth to recognize, but it does not seem to have fully the desired effect.
The FF series is, at least in my view, actually suited much better for a console spread than KH especially because it has no interconnected overaching story apart from some titles who actually have sequels/prequels like IV, VII, X and XIII.
I'm not into Sonic at all, do not even have a single game of that series, yet I know that its fanbase has one of the worst reputations out there.

Oh it's similar alright, to the point it's eerie to me as someone that also read Bleach. I think that's another thing that baffles me. How can anyone not see the issues here? I can understand seeing them but liking it anyway Like ShardofTruth here, everyone has that kinda thing, but to ignore them or attack other fans over pointing them out is just pathetic. (remembering so many other more volatile threads)

A construction site with lots of lawsuits at that. lol
It was in the FFX ending but the way X-2 handled it made it feel more of a result of fans shipping.
Oh definitely. Between companies causing side stories he didn't plan and SE throwing other stuff at him it's a miracle he's gotten a series this huge at all.

lol If I gotta look at these four of the same person then I at least wanna see them meet. The interactions in any combination of the four would be entertaining to see. I wish that mindset would die to but mostly because of how many threads I've seen on it.....(has war flashbacks) o_o

Oh I'm sure a great deal of fanbase split would've been adverted had it not been for console spread. All it did was make fans of specific entries and characters rather than fans of a unified series. I do know that some of it wasn't Nomuras fault like nintendo wanting days or BBS being shafted to the PSP but at the same time he did come up with a few like Coded. DDD as well though at this point he was trying to make things to tie it all back together which DDD did only mediocre at.
The HD remasters did fine I think till they just up and decided to make KH3 not for PS3 but also adding 2.8 to PS4. All they did was remedy console spread to just do it again. Like I mentioned to ShardofTruth, few that's skipped the PS3 are gonna go buy one now just for this one series. That was the entire problem with console spread to begin with.

FF is better for it. It's made to be spread as far as possible in it's current form. All thanks to it's isolated storylines and worlds.
I grew up on Sonic, it even released a few months after I was born lol, however the series has honestly gone to shit over the years along with it's fanbase. At present the only Sonic games I play myself are Adventure 1 & 2 and the sega genesis classics like Sonic 2, 3 and Sonic&Knuckles. The latter three of which are interconnectable which turns them into not just 3 games but a possibility of 5. (it was really rather cool back in the day with Sonic&Knuckles "lock-on" technology)

Isn't the initial premise of x[chi] a perfect example for it?
I still remember when chi originally was first released it was stated that if would have no bearings on the story of the main series, and thus being "dismissable" or at least not needed to get the crucial points of the story.
After a few months, there was suddenly this "Foreteller's script" which was stated to have a bearing on the main story and another little time later suddenly the whole thing is "crucial" to the story of KH III and the series as a whole.

It's not so much about the entry in question having content that is connected to the overall scheme, but it having content that is crucial to understand the overall scheme.
I remember the initial premise of KH III was to save a bunch of suffering people and finally kick Xehanort's ass for good, now these are pushed into the background in favor of some ancient prophecies and conspiracies never heard of before that may or may not bring about the apocalypse itself.

We already have a wild mad scientist though with Even/Vexen.

I think you explained it better than me with the chi example....

 

[Alpha Baymax]

I don't think he would make a figure like the freaking Master of Masters a complete loon. "Eccentric" doesn't always mean crazy, just... unusual. If this guy is anything like my history teachers, I'd say he'd be unusual enough, but still sane. Maybe he's not your conventional "wise mentor guy" like we see in Yen Sid.

Well, that in itself is a refreshing change from the Master Eraqus, Yen Sid's and Ansem, The Wise of the series. I can just imagine this guy as a fortune teller sort of character that the Foretellers go to in order to get guidance of what to do to secure a satisfiable future and keep their honour of Keyblade Master.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

Oh it's similar alright, to the point it's eerie to me as someone that also read Bleach. I think that's another thing that baffles me. How can anyone not see the issues here? I can understand seeing them but liking it anyway Like ShardofTruth here, everyone has that kinda thing, but to ignore them or attack other fans over pointing them out is just pathetic. (remembering so many other more volatile threads)

A construction site with lots of lawsuits at that. lol
It was in the FFX ending but the way X-2 handled it made it feel more of a result of fans shipping.
Oh definitely. Between companies causing side stories he didn't plan and SE throwing other stuff at him it's a miracle he's gotten a series this huge at all.

lol If I gotta look at these four of the same person then I at least wanna see them meet. The interactions in any combination of the four would be entertaining to see. I wish that mindset would die to but mostly because of how many threads I've seen on it.....(has war flashbacks) o_o

Oh I'm sure a great deal of fanbase split would've been adverted had it not been for console spread. All it did was make fans of specific entries and characters rather than fans of a unified series. I do know that some of it wasn't Nomuras fault like nintendo wanting days or BBS being shafted to the PSP but at the same time he did come up with a few like Coded. DDD as well though at this point he was trying to make things to tie it all back together which DDD did only mediocre at.
The HD remasters did fine I think till they just up and decided to make KH3 not for PS3 but also adding 2.8 to PS4. All they did was remedy console spread to just do it again. Like I mentioned to ShardofTruth, few that's skipped the PS3 are gonna go buy one now just for this one series. That was the entire problem with console spread to begin with.

FF is better for it. It's made to be spread as far as possible in it's current form. All thanks to it's isolated storylines and worlds.
I grew up on Sonic, it even released a few months after I was born lol, however the series has honestly gone to shit over the years along with it's fanbase. At present the only Sonic games I play myself are Adventure 1 & 2 and the sega genesis classics like Sonic 2, 3 and Sonic&Knuckles. The latter three of which are interconnectable which turns them into not just 3 games but a possibility of 5. (it was really rather cool back in the day with Sonic&Knuckles "lock-on" technology)

What strikes me a little more eerie is that Bleach, as a written medium, should have more room available to flesh the story out better than KH has.
Some people chose to ignore the issues because they simply do not want to focus on negative aspects. Real Life has already more than enough negatives so they do not want to have them there as well. Works like KH are also a sort of escapist entertainment for some so they get irate when seeing/reading people "bitching" about they favorite little fantasy.
As in many things it is also as the old proverb says: It's not what you say, but how you say it!
Very many "critics" tend to be pretty harsh in language when formulating their critic, which several dedicated fans perceive as an insult or worse as an attack on the work they love.
I remember from the "old" KHInsider this being also a problem around here, it was so bad that for a time this forum was actually notorius as the "Kingdom Hearts Forum where everyone hates Kingdom Hearts" around the wider net.

Haha, the whole thing almost can be compared to the dreaded BER-airport in Berlin which is notorious in all of Germany for being a failed project with countless construction flaws (like escalators that are too short, lol), endless delays and a disgrace to supposed "German efficiency".
It has been a while since I last saw the endings of X-2, but I remember the Tidus-Yuna relationship always being one of the primary topics of that particular FF cast, much more than even Squall/Rinoa in VIII or anything in VII had.
This is however, as you pointed out to ShardOfTruth already, partly his own fault because when Nintendo asked for a KH Title, he could have just went and say let's do some lighthearted shit that has nothing to do with the actual KH story or only complements it, so I don't need to worry later about incorporating it into the main series. Yet, just like with X[chi] now, he goes with the premise that everything has to tie in with the main story somehow in a direct fashion. Exploring Roxas' time in the Organisation is all fine and dandy, but it should not include any heavy story elements that cannot be answered by KH 2 already, serving only as an additional treat/goodie people can choose to engage in if they want to get to know more about Roxas as a character or Axel and the Organisation (not that the actual Days did any favors to that).

If anything I would hope that actual interaction between them will serve to show off that they aren't the same person in a distinct and definite way. At current, some people may argue that the only one of the "quartet" who can definitely be put apart from the others is Vanitas because he's a highly violent jerkass, something not even Roxas, the most "angry" one of the remaining three displays to such a magnitude.
This is honestly one of my biggest pet peeves and I have to forcefully calm myself down whenever this dreaded topic comes up.

With DDD the problem is (again) that Nomura tried to make more than just tying it all back together from the Handheld-trinity. None of the three handhelds suggested (or required) a new Organisation XIII, to completely change the way to forge the X-blade or introduce a whole new race of colorful critters like the Dream Eaters.
Tying things together was also already (partly) done by Coded itself as it connected KH 2 with BBS and set the initial basis for the task of "rescuing the BBS crew" that would need to happen in the future. Heck, Coded is actually the title where Mickey first learns about the connection between the BBS-crew and Sora, connecting BBS as a title firmly to the future of the main series way before anything DDD does. If you want to be really nitpicky, Coded could practically even be seen as a playable expansion of Blank Points, the BBS secret ending where the topic of Ansem's data and Sora being the key that connects all first comes up.
The error was putting the first two Remasters not on PS4 to begin with I'd say. By making the Remasters PS4 exclusives from the beginning, the console spread would have been completely eliminated until they decided to make x[chi]/Unchained crucial and release that only in Japan/on stupid phones.
I certainly hope that X back cover in 2.8 will provide enough coverage of the lore from the chi-era so you can go into KH III considering yourself "sufficiently prepared".
Unlike the PS2, the PS3 was never much liked by developers and customers alike even at its prime, so heaven knows why they decided to make the first two remasters for PS3 instead of switching directly to the superior (and easier to develop for) PS4.

Exactly, that's also why I am always a little sceptic when they make a sequel to an existing FF title. As much as I liked FF Advent Children (only the Complete version though) and Crisis Core (the latter mainly because of Zack and getting to see the good, non-insane Sephiroth), the FF VII Compilation as a whole did more harm than good, FF XIII had an acceptable ending already that didn't need two sequels and so did FFX. Normally with FF I like that there's only one entry on that particular universe and cast and you can imagine further adventures of those casts on your own as far as the endings of each title allow. Collaboration titles like Dissidia are exempt from this.
I see, so you certainly know about that topic and series more than I do. If it was this highly successful, I wonder what made both the series and the fanbase "go down the gutter" in the recent years. Did Sega's disaster with the Dreamcast have any influence on it?

 

[Anagram]

What strikes me a little more eerie is that Bleach, as a written medium, should have more room available to flesh the story out better than KH has.
Some people chose to ignore the issues because they simply do not want to focus on negative aspects. Real Life has already more than enough negatives so they do not want to have them there as well. Works like KH are also a sort of escapist entertainment for some so they get irate when seeing/reading people "bitching" about they favorite little fantasy.
As in many things it is also as the old proverb says: It's not what you say, but how you say it!
Very many "critics" tend to be pretty harsh in language when formulating their critic, which several dedicated fans perceive as an insult or worse as an attack on the work they love.
I remember from the "old" KHInsider this being also a problem around here, it was so bad that for a time this forum was actually notorius as the "Kingdom Hearts Forum where everyone hates Kingdom Hearts" around the wider net.

Sadly the fact that bleach hasn't developed more despite its more liberated manga format just goes to show how pitiful it's writing is. Then people need to learn the difference between pointing out a flaw and outright complaining. Pointing out a flaw in something you like isn't hating on it. However remembering those old days were some just constantly whined I guess it's possible some get criticism and hating confused.

Haha, the whole thing almost can be compared to the dreaded BER-airport in Berlin which is notorious in all of Germany for being a failed project with countless construction flaws (like escalators that are too short, lol), endless delays and a disgrace to supposed "German efficiency".
It has been a while since I last saw the endings of X-2, but I remember the Tidus-Yuna relationship always being one of the primary topics of that particular FF cast, much more than even Squall/Rinoa in VIII or anything in VII had.
This is however, as you pointed out to ShardOfTruth already, partly his own fault because when Nintendo asked for a KH Title, he could have just went and say let's do some lighthearted shit that has nothing to do with the actual KH story or only complements it, so I don't need to worry later about incorporating it into the main series. Yet, just like with X[chi] now, he goes with the premise that everything has to tie in with the main story somehow in a direct fashion. Exploring Roxas' time in the Organisation is all fine and dandy, but it should not include any heavy story elements that cannot be answered by KH 2 already, serving only as an additional treat/goodie people can choose to engage in if they want to get to know more about Roxas as a character or Axel and the Organisation (not that the actual Days did any favors to that).

Good lord there's even a real life accurate comparison lol. If it helps, your countries failings at least aren't as idtiot fueled or consistent as my native America. haha (you wanna talk blindly ignoring flaws, talk about most of the American populace lmao)
I only played the remastered so I wouldn't know of old FFX days. Though speaking as a fairly recent player of it I felt FFX-2 was building up one thing just to throw it out for "hey look it's your ship!"
Exactly. You explain it better than I do haha. Making everything so plot heavy has kinda made what feels like two series. You have kh1 through 2 which feels straightforward and fairly wrapped up. Then you have every game sense that's built onto KH2 making a complex hard to follow series. If anything KH3 is the handhelds sequel rather than Lh2s.

If anything I would hope that actual interaction between them will serve to show off that they aren't the same person in a distinct and definite way. At current, some people may argue that the only one of the "quartet" who can definitely be put apart from the others is Vanitas because he's a highly violent jerkass, something not even Roxas, the most "angry" one of the remaining three displays to such a magnitude.
This is honestly one of my biggest pet peeves and I have to forcefully calm myself down whenever this dreaded topic comes up.

I'm afraid their will always be some that see them like that. I know their supposed to be individuals, I know they have different personalities but even still I can even feel that it's like four personalities of a single entity.
They just need proper fleshing and something more distinct visually to help.

With DDD the problem is (again) that Nomura tried to make more than just tying it all back together from the Handheld-trinity. None of the three handhelds suggested (or required) a new Organisation XIII, to completely change the way to forge the X-blade or introduce a whole new race of colorful critters like the Dream Eaters.
Tying things together was also already (partly) done by Coded itself as it connected KH 2 with BBS and set the initial basis for the task of "rescuing the BBS crew" that would need to happen in the future. Heck, Coded is actually the title where Mickey first learns about the connection between the BBS-crew and Sora, connecting BBS as a title firmly to the future of the main series way before anything DDD does. If you want to be really nitpicky, Coded could practically even be seen as a playable expansion of Blank Points, the BBS secret ending where the topic of Ansem's data and Sora being the key that connects all first comes up.
The error was putting the first two Remasters not on PS4 to begin with I'd say. By making the Remasters PS4 exclusives from the beginning, the console spread would have been completely eliminated until they decided to make x[chi]/Unchained crucial and release that only in Japan/on stupid phones.
I certainly hope that X back cover in 2.8 will provide enough coverage of the lore from the chi-era so you can go into KH III considering yourself "sufficiently prepared".
Unlike the PS2, the PS3 was never much liked by developers and customers alike even at its prime, so heaven knows why they decided to make the first two remasters for PS3 instead of switching directly to the superior (and easier to develop for) PS4.

This is painfully true. Coded did what DDD was supposed to do and done it better and subtly. Worded this way you realize how much DDD just threw in without any warnings, no wonder it felt like it changed the story pace so drastically....
I agree completely. I'm a big advicater for the remastered on PS4 as a result. Give all the fans that skipped PS3 a chance to play the remasters themselves and to finally fix spread as promised. Otherwise your just gonna get more fans dropping the series or they'll just lose more money on it from all the fans wanting to keep up with but can't and resort to YouTube.

Exactly, that's also why I am always a little sceptic when they make a sequel to an existing FF title. As much as I liked FF Advent Children (only the Complete version though) and Crisis Core (the latter mainly because of Zack and getting to see the good, non-insane Sephiroth), the FF VII Compilation as a whole did more harm than good, FF XIII had an acceptable ending already that didn't need two sequels and so did FFX. Normally with FF I like that there's only one entry on that particular universe and cast and you can imagine further adventures of those casts on your own as far as the endings of each title allow. Collaboration titles like Dissidia are exempt from this.
I see, so you certainly know about that topic and series more than I do. If it was this highly successful, I wonder what made both the series and the fanbase "go down the gutter" in the recent years. Did Sega's disaster with the Dreamcast have any influence on it?

I can see that. I always hear bad things of compilations of FF games, mostly 7. Having played FFX, X-2, 13 and 13-2 myself though I can agree that most are best left standalone or with few expansions.
The dream cast is some blame but mostly just the idiocy of the company itself. The sega Genesis classics of Sonic is what made Sega big. The adventures titles seemed like steps in the right direction for 3D sonic games but it's after this that fans get divided. Post Adventure is where the fan base went to hell. The series itself....let me put it this way the only game almost unanimously liked since Adventure 2 was Sonic Colors. That's over a decade of games between 2 and Colors.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

Sadly the fact that bleach hasn't developed more despite its more liberated manga format just goes to show how pitiful it's writing is. Then people need to learn the difference between pointing out a flaw and outright complaining. Pointing out a flaw in something you like isn't hating on it. However remembering those old days were some just constantly whined I guess it's possible some get criticism and hating confused.

Just another point proving that not every creative mind, regardless how exceptional, is also capable of conveying the ideas spawning from it in a manner that works for others. George Lucas with Star Wars is another example. George has the bright ideas and the vision what to do, but the whole thing is only truly successful if someone else turns those ideas and visions into a working script.
Like I said, it matters much how it is pointed out and said. Since I've seen much flak and malice directed at the character recently, let's take Terra as an example.
It is ok to point out that Terra's portrayal during BBS was less than stellar and that it hurt his overall character, no doubt. But doing so in nearly every instance when a topic comes to Terra and complaining about the character's flaws at every turn will eventually resort to bad blood on all sides involved. This was exactly why both the Kairi- and the Xion-hate as well as the resulting flame wars got so bad a few years ago. Many people just don't know when to stop in these things.
It becomes even worse when pointing out the flaws eventually degenerates into outright complete bashing of the character, title or event in question.
Of course, going into the other extreme is also possible if someone/something is praised and forced to the forefront excessively in nearly every instance too, something I fear I have noticed with Kairi recently from parts of the fanbase, and what is practically done with Axel/Lea by the official work. These can also lead to disgruntled if not even outright hateful reactions eventually.

Good lord there's even a real life accurate comparison lol. If it helps, your countries failings at least aren't as idtiot fueled or consistent as my native America. haha (you wanna talk blindly ignoring flaws, talk about most of the American populace lmao)
I only played the remastered so I wouldn't know of old FFX days. Though speaking as a fairly recent player of it I felt FFX-2 was building up one thing just to throw it out for "hey look it's your ship!"
Exactly. You explain it better than I do haha. Making everything so plot heavy has kinda made what feels like two series. You have kh1 through 2 which feels straightforward and fairly wrapped up. Then you have every game sense that's built onto KH2 making a complex hard to follow series. If anything KH3 is the handhelds sequel rather than Lh2s.

Somewhat scary, right? At least though it proves that this isn't a flaw that is rare or exclusive to Nomura or Kubo.
I'm rudimentarily following developments in the US, so I can at least grasp some of the "failings" happening around there, but I won't start a debate about the policies and politics of the US here.
It has been a while since I last played or saw scenes from X-2, so I can't really give a founded interpretation of my own right now.
Well, considering that Nomura's very original plans (when they were still developing KH 2 Final Mix) included Birth by Sleep definitely, it is somewhat logical that KH III would be more the sequel of BBS than to KH 2 as in that it lays the groundwork for the future exploits of Sora & co. KH 2 closes with the initial quest (finding Riku and Kairi, return to the Islands) accomplished, but leaving the lost memories and the origin of Xehanort (which is mentioned in the Secret Ansem Reports) a mystery among others, yet specifically this mystery is what BBS addresses as well as showing off the connections it has to the future and Sora.
The music for the ending credits in BBS is even named "Birth by Sleep -A Link to the Future". KH 2 was after all also not the direct sequel of KH 1, but of CoM, the so-called "bridge"-title. Nomura stated several times BBS can also be called KH 0 (well, with Chi entering the fray now it's more like KH 0.1) and is considered a main title (hence why it got a Final Mix). When considering Coded being an extension of Blank Points it also works into that line, yet this could also mean it could have happened in the Prologue of KH III, not needing to make Coded an extra title and drag it out.
The only true oddity out there is Days, not because it's "unneccessary" or "superfluous", but because instead of doing what it was supposed to do, fill gaps in the already existing story from KH 1 to KH 2 and give an insight on characters like Roxas only, it went beyond that and threw in more clutter without warnings just like DDD did that are important beyond the existing story from KH 1 to 2 too.

I'm afraid their will always be some that see them like that. I know their supposed to be individuals, I know they have different personalities but even still I can even feel that it's like four personalities of a single entity.
They just need proper fleshing and something more distinct visually to help.

Probably, because there will always be people who cannot look beyond visual identical elements. Lol, I know we're on fundamental different stances on that one, so let's just wait and see what the series does with them in the future.

This is painfully true. Coded did what DDD was supposed to do and done it better and subtly. Worded this way you realize how much DDD just threw in without any warnings, no wonder it felt like it changed the story pace so drastically....
I agree completely. I'm a big advicater for the remastered on PS4 as a result. Give all the fans that skipped PS3 a chance to play the remasters themselves and to finally fix spread as promised. Otherwise your just gonna get more fans dropping the series or they'll just lose more money on it from all the fans wanting to keep up with but can't and resort to YouTube.

Indeed, although the subtlety with which it was done also impacted it somewhat negatively as it flew past many parts of the KH fanbase who largely derailed Coded as unneccessary and having not a single important addition to the story. Depending on where you look in the net, Coded comes sometimes over as even more hated/reviled than Days, which at least I personally had the impression is the universally most hated KH title.
DDD was rushed even more badly than KH 2 was and that shows big time. There were many parts I adored about this title, but also several that made me pull at my hair in surprise how...let's say "insensitively" DDD's pacing trampled over some things. The issue with that everything can have a heart was hinted at since Chain of Memories and I loved to see that one finally getting decisively confirmed, the scenes in the ending with Riku answering the questions from KH 1 again and talking with Ansem the Wise were among the best the game has to offer, but those paled in comparison to the other "plot bombs" DDD detonated without any warning.
The spread will only be truly "fixed" though when not just all remasters are on PS4, but when watching Back Cover is enough to get all neccessary information. Otherwise the spread will remain between PS4 and smartphones because of Unchained x.

I can see that. I always hear bad things of compilations of FF games, mostly 7. Having played FFX, X-2, 13 and 13-2 myself though I can agree that most are best left standalone or with few expansions.
The dream cast is some blame but mostly just the idiocy of the company itself. The sega Genesis classics of Sonic is what made Sega big. The adventures titles seemed like steps in the right direction for 3D sonic games but it's after this that fans get divided. Post Adventure is where the fan base went to hell. The series itself....let me put it this way the only game almost unanimously liked since Adventure 2 was Sonic Colors. That's over a decade of games between 2 and Colors.

The main problem with the compilation of VII is that it blatantly "expanded" some parts regarding to the original FF VII that frankly did not need to be expanded. Remember how many people in KH were/are sour about Xion being shoehorned into the Deep Dive-scenes, effectively (in their eyes) "ruining" the scenes between Riku and Roxas?
FF VII Compilation has something similar with Genesis (the main "villain" of Crisis Core) not only being shoehorned into the events of the Nibelheim incident, but also playing a major part in having Sephiroth finally going insane. In the original FF VII, Sephiroth went insane by himself after reading the whole library of the Shinra-mansion non-stop for more than a day, discovering all the secrets Shinra Company had kept from him. This, combined with being in close proximity to Jenova itself and the high concentration of its cells inside Sephiroth, was what lead to his insanity originally.
Both X and XIII didn't need the sequels in my book. In both cases, the endings were done ambigious enough to allow several headcanons flowing in different directions to be taken from it.
That certainly sounds even worse than what KH has, lol. I may consider myself lucky to be not into Sonic...

 

[Anagram]

Just another point proving that not every creative mind, regardless how exceptional, is also capable of conveying the ideas spawning from it in a manner that works for others. George Lucas with Star Wars is another example. George has the bright ideas and the vision what to do, but the whole thing is only truly successful if someone else turns those ideas and visions into a working script.
Like I said, it matters much how it is pointed out and said. Since I've seen much flak and malice directed at the character recently, let's take Terra as an example.
It is ok to point out that Terra's portrayal during BBS was less than stellar and that it hurt his overall character, no doubt. But doing so in nearly every instance when a topic comes to Terra and complaining about the character's flaws at every turn will eventually resort to bad blood on all sides involved. This was exactly why both the Kairi- and the Xion-hate as well as the resulting flame wars got so bad a few years ago. Many people just don't know when to stop in these things.
It becomes even worse when pointing out the flaws eventually degenerates into outright complete bashing of the character, title or event in question.
Of course, going into the other extreme is also possible if someone/something is praised and forced to the forefront excessively in nearly every instance too, something I fear I have noticed with Kairi recently from parts of the fanbase, and what is practically done with Axel/Lea by the official work. These can also lead to disgruntled if not even outright hateful reactions eventually.

It's the other extreme that annoys me more personally. Mostly because it's seen more while hating is usually reserved to Terra or Xion.

Somewhat scary, right? At least though it proves that this isn't a flaw that is rare or exclusive to Nomura or Kubo.
I'm rudimentarily following developments in the US, so I can at least grasp some of the "failings" happening around there, but I won't start a debate about the policies and politics of the US here.
It has been a while since I last played or saw scenes from X-2, so I can't really give a founded interpretation of my own right now.
Well, considering that Nomura's very original plans (when they were still developing KH 2 Final Mix) included Birth by Sleep definitely, it is somewhat logical that KH III would be more the sequel of BBS than to KH 2 as in that it lays the groundwork for the future exploits of Sora & co. KH 2 closes with the initial quest (finding Riku and Kairi, return to the Islands) accomplished, but leaving the lost memories and the origin of Xehanort (which is mentioned in the Secret Ansem Reports) a mystery among others, yet specifically this mystery is what BBS addresses as well as showing off the connections it has to the future and Sora.
The music for the ending credits in BBS is even named "Birth by Sleep -A Link to the Future". KH 2 was after all also not the direct sequel of KH 1, but of CoM, the so-called "bridge"-title. Nomura stated several times BBS can also be called KH 0 (well, with Chi entering the fray now it's more like KH 0.1) and is considered a main title (hence why it got a Final Mix). When considering Coded being an extension of Blank Points it also works into that line, yet this could also mean it could have happened in the Prologue of KH III, not needing to make Coded an extra title and drag it out.
The only true oddity out there is Days, not because it's "unneccessary" or "superfluous", but because instead of doing what it was supposed to do, fill gaps in the already existing story from KH 1 to KH 2 and give an insight on characters like Roxas only, it went beyond that and threw in more clutter without warnings just like DDD did that are important beyond the existing story from KH 1 to 2 too.

That's best though I should point out that I mostly refer to how America runs itself or its own populace. Meaning I wasn't even counting other failings like politics. haha
That's my point. KH3 would've been more BBS sequel sure but things were tied into what Kh2 had underneath and tied it altogether and so on. But now it's kinda like they used all the handhelds to build a story for Kh3 in general. Throwing thins in, forgoing them for other things (DDD) and so on. I guess I mean it just feels more like patchwork this way.

Indeed, although the subtlety with which it was done also impacted it somewhat negatively as it flew past many parts of the KH fanbase who largely derailed Coded as unneccessary and having not a single important addition to the story. Depending on where you look in the net, Coded comes sometimes over as even more hated/reviled than Days, which at least I personally had the impression is the universally most hated KH title.
DDD was rushed even more badly than KH 2 was and that shows big time. There were many parts I adored about this title, but also several that made me pull at my in surprise how...let's say "insensitively" DDD's pacing trampled over some things. The issue with that everything can have a heart was hinted at since Chain of Memories and I loved to see that one finally getting decisively confirmed, the scenes in the ending with Riku answering the questions from KH 1 again and talking with Ansem the Wise were among the best the game has to offer, but those paled in comparison to the other "plot bombs" DDD detonated without any warning.
The spread will only be truly "fixed" though when not just all remasters are on PS4, but when watching Back Cover is enough to get all neccessary information. Otherwise the spread will remain between PS4 and smartphones because of Unchained x.

coded is treated that way in part because I'm sure most are tired of waiting for the Kh3 conclusion to this mess. That and unlike games there isn't a trio to distract them. (Days)
Then I doubt spread will ever be fixed because we can't even have browser games without them being crucial to follow a plot.

The main problem with the compilation of VII is that it blatantly "expanded" some parts regarding to the original FF VII that frankly did not need to be expanded. Remember how many people in KH were/are sour about Xion being shoehorned into the Deep Dive-scenes, effectively (in their eyes) "ruining" the scenes between Riku and Roxas?
FF VII Compilation has something similar with Genesis (the main "villain" of Crisis Core) not only being shoehorned into the events of the Nibelheim incident, but also playing a major part in having Sephiroth finally going insane. In the original FF VII, Sephiroth went insane by himself after reading the whole library of the Shinra-mansion non-stop for more than a day, discovering all the secrets Shinra Company had kept from him. This, combined with being in close proximity to Jenova itself and the high concentration of its cells inside Sephiroth, was what lead to his insanity originally.
Both X and XIII didn't need the sequels in my book. In both cases, the endings were done ambigious enough to allow several headcanons flowing in different directions to be taken from it.
That certainly sounds even worse than what KH has, lol. I may consider myself lucky to be not into Sonic...

Then maybe it's good I've only managed to play Crisis Core. If I had played the traditional order I might've been annoyed by it too. haha
X definitly should've stayed standalone. You are indeed lucky sir though I always recommend one try Sonic 2 or other Genesis classics. They're good examples of old era platforming. But that's another type of topic. =w=

 

[Sephiroth0812]

It's the other extreme that annoys me more personally. Mostly because it's seen more while hating is usually reserved to Terra or Xion.

I find both to be equally troublesome, as both variants lead to the same outcome: Unrest, animosity and conflict within different "factions" of the fanbase, be they character-,story-,gameplay- or series entry-related.
Terra and Xion definitely get the most flak around nowadays while with Kairi it seems to dip into the other direction more and more.

That's best though I should point out that I mostly refer to how America runs itself or its own populace. Meaning I wasn't even counting other failings like politics. haha
That's my point. KH3 would've been more BBS sequel sure but things were tied into what Kh2 had underneath and tied it altogether and so on. But now it's kinda like they used all the handhelds to build a story for Kh3 in general. Throwing thins in, forgoing them for other things (DDD) and so on. I guess I mean it just feels more like patchwork this way.

Ah yes, that too, lol. I've heard similar things from other acquaintances and friends from the US too though, so this seems to be a more widespread issue.
The foundations for BBS were laid in KH 2, so going from there to prepare a story for KH III would indeed have been a smooth line with BBS alone between 2 and 3.
It is a sort of patchwork, mainly because the initial premise for KH III's story got expanded so far that even more adjustments needed to be made.
Remembering this part from the Coded Ultimania:

Speaking of the Birth by Sleep secret cutscene, Ansem the Wise says that he hid his research results in Sora. This complies with what happens in Re:Coded when Namine says DiZ (Ansem the Wise) has hid something inside Sora. Is that mystery remaining unsolved?

Nomura: Yes. Namine added data to the Jiminy Journal in order to convey that the “pain” of those connected to Sora must be healed, but at the point in time Ansem hid the research results inside Sora, he didn’t know that. Accordingly, Ansem’s research results will become the key to healing the “pain” in the future of the story.

So even though Namine and Ansem acted independently, as a result of what the two did, it leads to one thing. And speaking of those details…

Nomura: Since that will likely become the story for Kingdom Hearts III, please look forward to that until then.

it becomes quite obvious that the initial premise of KH III's story was simpler than what we get now with all the time traveling, new Organisation, Foretellers, Prophecies and else.

coded is treated that way in part because I'm sure most are tired of waiting for the Kh3 conclusion to this mess. That and unlike games there isn't a trio to distract them. (Days)
Then I doubt spread will ever be fixed because we can't even have browser games without them being crucial to follow a plot.

The long gap between actually starting KH III and KH 2 release also shows that the management at Square is not the best as I remember Nomura stating somewhere in 2011 or 2012 that even if he wanted to start a big project like KH III right away, there weren't enough resources available back then due to several other projects, which included Versus XIII, getting priority.
Unlike some idiots like IGN claim, KH III was NOT started already in 2010, heck, Nomura even thought announcing it on E3 2013 was too early.

Seems that way, and that is poison for a series with an overaching story.

Then maybe it's good I've only managed to play Crisis Core. If I had played the traditional order I might've been annoyed by it too. haha
X definitly should've stayed standalone. You are indeed lucky sir though I always recommend one try Sonic 2 or other Genesis classics. They're good examples of old era platforming. But that's another type of topic. =w=

The game Crisis Core is definitely one of the better entries of the Compilation overall (if you discount Genesis, lol), mainly because of the fun battle system and characters like Zack, Angeal and Sephiroth are quite likeable. It should also be obvious that BBS "stole" its command melding feature from Crisis Core's Materia fusion, *ggg*.

Old era platforming? Something along the likes of Donkey Kong Country for the old SNES?

 

[Anagram]

I find both to be equally troublesome, as both variants lead to the same outcome: Unrest, animosity and conflict within different "factions" of the fanbase, be they character-,story-,gameplay- or series entry-related.
Terra and Xion definitely get the most flak around nowadays while with Kairi it seems to dip into the other direction more and more.

Ah yes, that too, lol. I've heard similar things from other acquaintances and friends from the US too though, so this seems to be a more widespread issue.
The foundations for BBS were laid in KH 2, so going from there to prepare a story for KH III would indeed have been a smooth line with BBS alone between 2 and 3.
It is a sort of patchwork, mainly because the initial premise for KH III's story got expanded so far that even more adjustments needed to be made.
Remembering this part from the Coded Ultimania:

it becomes quite obvious that the initial premise of KH III's story was simpler than what we get now with all the time traveling, new Organisation, Foretellers, Prophecies and else.

Well to be fair here Kairi went for years as the focus of hate til Xion appeared. She's due some positivity. lol

So Nomura basically admits all the titles since has rewritten KH3 haha.

starting[/I] KH III and KH 2 release also shows that the management at Square is not the best as I remember Nomura stating somewhere in 2011 or 2012 that even if he wanted to start a big project like KH III right away, there weren't enough resources available back then due to several other projects, which included Versus XIII, getting priority.
Unlike some idiots like IGN claim, KH III was NOT started already in 2010, heck, Nomura even thought announcing it on E3 2013 was too early.

Seems that way, and that is poison for a series with an overaching story.

The game Crisis Core is definitely one of the better entries of the Compilation overall (if you discount Genesis, lol), mainly because of the fun battle system and characters like Zack, Angeal and Sephiroth are quite likeable. It should also be obvious that BBS "stole" its command melding feature from Crisis Core's Materia fusion, *ggg*.

Old era platforming? Something along the likes of Donkey Kong Country for the old SNES?

A lot of things SE does is questionable. Even trailers are bad for plot reveals.

Like Donkey Kong Country and classic Mario. You start at one end and run to the other avoiding things that can kill you. Sonic throws in boss fights of more variety in the classic games though and the games from 2 onward have the hidden gem of super sonic which is fun.

 

[BlackOsprey]

Old era platforming? Something along the likes of Donkey Kong Country for the old SNES?

If it's worth anything, the original Genesis Sonic (well, it was the GBA port, which was apparently reviled by many) was the first game that really got me interested in video games long before Pokemon or KH were ever blips on my radar. It was good, simple fun that could hook even an easily distractible five-year-old, so I'd recommend it to just about anyone.

 

[Antifa Lockhart]

Well to be fair here Kairi went for years as the focus of hate til Xion appeared. She's due some positivity. lol

Noooooooothing compares to the irate sokai shippers who tore Namine to shreds when Chain of Memories came out over ten years ago.

 

[Anagram]

Noooooooothing compares to the irate sokai shippers who tore Namine to shreds when Chain of Memories came out over ten years ago.

*repressed memories resurface* Duuuuuudddddeeee I had that forgotten for ten years now. ;A; Oh the hellish rants and fights....ugh....

 

[Miasthma]

Wow, the original topic of discussion here got derailed more times than there are Xehanorts. o_o

 

[ShardofTruth]

No not retellings. Some might be filler but all in all just brief stories to tell.
The Assassin's Creed series is one example. It's main story is on the consoles like KH but more than once it's had stories on handhelds or other devices that expanded a characters story without hampering the main story of it's console origin. Altair and Ezio both had handhelds entries and that's naming two of the main and most well known characters.

I think Assassin's Creed is an overall bad example because the actual "real world" backstory is more convoluted than anything in Kingdom Hearts and has more side entries like comic books, movies or ARGs. To understand it completely you probably even have to buy the franchise's very own encyclopedia (already in the 3rd revised edition!).
But still your main points stands, these side entries are not connected to one of the game's main storyline (or character storyline) in the same way as in Kingdom Hearts, they are not required to understand the story while you wouldn't be able to understand much of what is going on in DDD without playing the rest of the games.

I really get the frustration, it's hard to still invest yourself in a story you like(d) when you are not even able to play all its entries because of the console spread, non-international releases or the language barrier (DDD only translated to English, German and French for example).

On the other hand I still think it's doable with at least some effort for Kingdom Hearts and in my opinion it's a good thing that these side entries contribute in such a major way.

Isn't the initial premise of x[chi] a perfect example for it?
I still remember when chi originally was first released it was stated that if would have no bearings on the story of the main series, and thus being "dismissable" or at least not needed to get the crucial points of the story.
After a few months, there was suddenly this "Foreteller's script" which was stated to have a bearing on the main story and another little time later suddenly the whole thing is "crucial" to the story of KH III and the series as a whole.

It's not so much about the entry in question having content that is connected to the overall scheme, but it having content that is crucial to understand the overall scheme.
I remember the initial premise of KH III was to save a bunch of suffering people and finally kick Xehanort's ass for good, now these are pushed into the background in favor of some ancient prophecies and conspiracies never heard of before that may or may not bring about the apocalypse itself.

I totally get it and, again, I agree with you. The story of [chi] went from non-canon to partly canon to full canon in half a year, that's not only confusing but also a bit disheartening for all the fans who prefer to play actual good games.
I also a agree that the original premise, at least what could be deduced from the player's point of view after DDD's ending, got a different spin now.
The best thing about an interconnecting series is that parts of the story, that only made little sense back then or were stranger in some way, may be fleshed out into something great (or at least something better) and I'm not talking about the usual twists. For example the concept of what makes a person is constantly evolved in the series, every game adds a layer. So as long as we don't see the result of all these different threads in Kingdom Hearts III it's a bit early to judge.

The wikis aren't misinformed with storyline but the background. The inner workings that aren't put into the main medium which is the games as they should be.

I'm not sure I understand what's wrong with it, can point it out more clearly or give an example?

 

[Sephiroth0812]

Well to be fair here Kairi went for years as the focus of hate til Xion appeared. She's due some positivity. lol

So Nomura basically admits all the titles since has rewritten KH3 haha.

A lot of things SE does is questionable. Even trailers are bad for plot reveals.

Like Donkey Kong Country and classic Mario. You start at one end and run to the other avoiding things that can kill you. Sonic throws in boss fights of more variety in the classic games though and the games from 2 onward have the hidden gem of super sonic which is fun.

Don't forget Naminé, as Tinny says. If that positivity gets too far though and Kairi has to be shoved in everywhere now it can backfire very spectacularily.

Rewritten? Or just bloated it up?
Last time I checked x[chi] also isn't part of the original handheld trinity, so regardless what Days and Coded additionally bloated up, x[chi] does it even more.

Avoiding things or jump on their heads to get rid of them, lol. Donkey Kong also had additionally cartwheels and barrels to throw as well as Boss fights too, like a giant beaver, vulture, bee and a giant steel barrel of industrial toxic waste fitting named "Dumb Drum", lol.

Noooooooothing compares to the irate sokai shippers who tore Namine to shreds when Chain of Memories came out over ten years ago.

Ugh, don't remind me of that.
It's ironic that especially SoKai shippers complain about how "obnoxious" SoRiku shippers are when the most loudest (and most obnoxious) shippers in the fandom have always been the SoKai and AkuRoku-shippers.
This "die for our ship" mentality, regardless against whom it is leveled, is what mainly made me rather unfavorable towards serious shipping in general.

 

[Alpha Baymax]

So, judging by the recent trailer, any new ideas about the master?