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Why Xehanort is back to his normal self in 3d and not in Terra's body theory



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Vanitas X

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I actually had this theory in my mind for awhile about how Xehanort was back to his original self instead of being Terra-Xehanort. When you defeat a nobody and a heartless, that person should be whole right. Since Xemnas ans Ansem are both Terra's and Xehanort's nobody and heartless (mainly Xehanort's) they both should have been whole. That is what I think that could have happened. Xehanort is back whole in his original self. That should also have happened to Terra but Since The Lingering Will is keeping Terra's mind locked then Terra isn't whole yet. What do you guys think?
 

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More or less agreed, even supported by supplementary material I hear. The Lingering Will though isn't Terra's mind in entirety. We seen that in Blank Points when Terra & Xehanort was debating body ownership. The LW is more like Terra's feelings of hate and rage for Xehanort, even says as much in 2.5.

The heart is where ones consciousness resides in KH. Terra's mind would be with that.
 

Vanitas X

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That's true but the LW still has something that should complete Terra though. Heck LW might even be the one that can bring Terra back itself.
 

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I wonder if LW has anything to do with the little-mentioned concept of the Kingdom Hearts 'soul...?'
I have always wondered about that. The soul is more or less life as much as the heart is consciousness and memory. It would require life to be able to animate a suit of armor, and more than that: the armor isn't quite as 'conscious' as someone who is living and breathing and has a heart. Terra's heart is with his body. Perhaps a part of his soul is within the armor.
The only issue is that The soul is mentioned only once or twice and not the focus of the series, so it's maddeningly overlooked.
 

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The only issue is that The soul is mentioned only once or twice and not the focus of the series, so it's maddeningly overlooked.
The soul, especially compared to the heart, just doesn't really do much, so it's not going to have much focus. I once heard of this analogy... KH soul is sort of like a battery for the body. It exists to keep the body alive, and true death (or the closest thing to it) occurs when the soul no longer animates the body and the heart goes to wherever it's supposed to... I think it's the true Kingdom Hearts, but don't quote me on that.

And since soul is what powers the body to keep it alive, it's no stretch to say that soul is the same as willpower; the will to live, the same thing that animates the empty shells that are Nobodies. This same concept could be extended to the LW, although it's probably not all of Terra's soul in there, just pure, concentrated hatred that Terra left behind. It's a bit more specific than the "will to live," but I figure it'd work all the same.
 

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Personally I think it's the same thing as when Ansem was posessing Riku. MX just chooses to show his true appearance while still being inside Terras body.
 

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Personally I think it's the same thing as when Ansem was posessing Riku. MX just chooses to show his true appearance while still being inside Terras body.

That's a possibility. When Sora was a walking heart after Kairi reverted him back from being a Shadow Heartless, he was literally a walking heart. Only that instead of seeing as floating heart, we saw Sora's heart projecting his image. Who's to say Master Xehanort can't project his image inside Terra's body? What if the Keyblade to Return Hearts is going to be used to separate MX's heart from Terra's body?
 

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That's true but the LW still has something that should complete Terra though. Heck LW might even be the one that can bring Terra back itself.
Not necessarily. More than once a being has splintered off another while being perfectly fine in their own right. Ventus splintered off Vanitas yet didn't need him or vice versa, Vanitas splintered off unversed and while they returned to him upon destruction them existing showed no negative results on his health, Xehanort now has 13 splintered selves each operating fine as is with only Ansem & Xemnas being the technically incomplete among them.

Plus Terra's heart was fine enough to with Xehanort for control and converse so I doubt the LW has anything that Terra absolutely requires. But I do agree it'd be a cool scene and resolution if the LW suddenly popped up and helped restore Terra during KH3. Just imagine a scene of a final battle when it suddenly appears and manages to save Terra unlike years prior. Then as Terra is restored the LW just falls back to the ground as lifeless chunks of metal~

I wonder if LW has anything to do with the little-mentioned concept of the Kingdom Hearts 'soul...?'
I have always wondered about that. The soul is more or less life as much as the heart is consciousness and memory. It would require life to be able to animate a suit of armor, and more than that: the armor isn't quite as 'conscious' as someone who is living and breathing and has a heart. Terra's heart is with his body. Perhaps a part of his soul is within the armor.
The only issue is that The soul is mentioned only once or twice and not the focus of the series, so it's maddeningly overlooked.

The soul, especially compared to the heart, just doesn't really do much, so it's not going to have much focus. I once heard of this analogy... KH soul is sort of like a battery for the body. It exists to keep the body alive, and true death (or the closest thing to it) occurs when the soul no longer animates the body and the heart goes to wherever it's supposed to... I think it's the true Kingdom Hearts, but don't quote me on that.

And since soul is what powers the body to keep it alive, it's no stretch to say that soul is the same as willpower; the will to live, the same thing that animates the empty shells that are Nobodies. This same concept could be extended to the LW, although it's probably not all of Terra's soul in there, just pure, concentrated hatred that Terra left behind. It's a bit more specific than the "will to live," but I figure it'd work all the same.
To be honest at this point I think the soul is an all but forgotten or ignored topic by Nomura. The series focus is the heart and more than once his explanations have kinda went over the western side of the company's heads.

I like the analogy of heart to will though.

That's a possibility. When Sora was a walking heart after Kairi reverted him back from being a Shadow Heartless, he was literally a walking heart. Only that instead of seeing as floating heart, we saw Sora's heart projecting his image. Who's to say Master Xehanort can't project his image inside Terra's body? What if the Keyblade to Return Hearts is going to be used to separate MX's heart from Terra's body?
That'd be so much simpler.....sadly from what I've seen of Sephiroth0812 and Tinny's post the Memorial Ultimanias statement of it being Xehanort in his true body hasn't been contradicted....meaning where Terras heart and body is a mystery.
 

Vanitas X

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Not necessarily. More than once a being has splintered off another while being perfectly fine in their own right. Ventus splintered off Vanitas yet didn't need him or vice versa, Vanitas splintered off unversed and while they returned to him upon destruction them existing showed no negative results on his health, Xehanort now has 13 splintered selves each operating fine as is with only Ansem & Xemnas being the technically incomplete among them.

Plus Terra's heart was fine enough to with Xehanort for control and converse so I doubt the LW has anything that Terra absolutely requires. But I do agree it'd be a cool scene and resolution if the LW suddenly popped up and helped restore Terra during KH3. Just imagine a scene of a final battle when it suddenly appears and manages to save Terra unlike years prior. Then as Terra is restored the LW just falls back to the ground as lifeless chunks of metal~
That's how I actually see this but I see the LW fighting Terra Xehanort again but gaining control of or freeing Terra just before the final fight.
 

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Plus Terra's heart was fine enough to with Xehanort for control and converse so I doubt the LW has anything that Terra absolutely requires. But I do agree it'd be a cool scene and resolution if the LW suddenly popped up and helped restore Terra during KH3. Just imagine a scene of a final battle when it suddenly appears and manages to save Terra unlike years prior. Then as Terra is restored the LW just falls back to the ground as lifeless chunks of metal~

This.
To be completely honest I do not know if I should be amused or roll my eyes at these constant, increasingly frantic attempts to somehow shoehorn extra importance into the Lingering Will by connecting it/making it essential to Terra's recompletion.
The LW is nothing but an animated suit of armor powered by some leftover thoughts of Terra, it does not hold any imperative part of Terra's existence as a whole.


To be honest at this point I think the soul is an all but forgotten or ignored topic by Nomura. The series focus is the heart and more than once his explanations have kinda went over the western side of the company's heads.

That'd be so much simpler.....sadly from what I've seen of Sephiroth0812 and Tinny's post the Memorial Ultimanias statement of it being Xehanort in his true body hasn't been contradicted....meaning where Terras heart and body is a mystery.

Always presuming that there even is a topic to be forgotten and ignored, as I don't really see the need to speculate and theorize about something which purpose and function is already made clear. The soul in the KH series represents the lifeforce itself, the energy/fuel that allows the heart to control and animate the body. This explanation is short and simply to the point, something that is admittedly a seldom occurrence in this series, but it describes the function and what exactly the soul is just fine.

The Memorial Ultimania is one of the most recent materials on the issue, so it is not really surprising that it isn't contradicted.
In fact, the Memorial just repeats/confirms what the DDD Ultimania and another Nomura interview already said about Master Xehanort returning truly in his old, original body.
Something that got stated and pointed out so often has pretty little chance in getting contradicted/retconned I'd say and I sincerely hope that this one will eventually become common knowledge so people do not waste creativity by making further theories on a topic that needs no more theorizing about.
The Xehanort from the end of DDD is Master Xehanort in his old body, no shaping Terra's body to look like Old Nort nor any projected image, the whereabouts of all parts of Terra are intentionally kept a mystery.
 

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I actually had this theory in my mind for awhile about how Xehanort was back to his original self instead of being Terra-Xehanort. When you defeat a nobody and a heartless, that person should be whole right. Since Xemnas ans Ansem are both Terra's and Xehanort's nobody and heartless (mainly Xehanort's) they both should have been whole. That is what I think that could have happened. Xehanort is back whole in his original self. That should also have happened to Terra but Since The Lingering Will is keeping Terra's mind locked then Terra isn't whole yet. What do you guys think?

Makes sense, and course he would want Terra-Nort to be one of his 13 Darknesses while having his own body.
 

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Assuming he is talking about Terra. It's the most likely case but they did leave it intentionally vague and the wording makes it sound like Sora and the other were both acquired at roughly the same time. "Sora and another on your list belong to me now" doesn't make it sound like it was someone acquired long ago in the past. That's why personally I felt like that line was actually hinting towards Ventus. Because in order for Ventus to be a light they need to reunite his heart and body, which they can't do if they don't have his heart which is held within Sora. So by Xehanort stealing Sora he had also stolen Ventus, preventing either of them from being a light.
 

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Assuming he is talking about Terra. It's the most likely case but they did leave it intentionally vague and the wording makes it sound like Sora and the other were both acquired at roughly the same time. "Sora and another on your list belong to me now" doesn't make it sound like it was someone acquired long ago in the past. That's why personally I felt like that line was actually hinting towards Ventus. Because in order for Ventus to be a light they need to reunite his heart and body, which they can't do if they don't have his heart which is held within Sora. So by Xehanort stealing Sora he had also stolen Ventus, preventing either of them from being a light.
What Xehanort actually meant was that he had Sora and Terra in his possession and if you check the cutscene where Sora was asleep in the darkness you see Ventus protecting Sora from it which could have affected Ventus instead of Sora.
 

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And you can prove he meant that how exactly? Also why does Ven rescuing Sora matter at all since again that's only something that was able to happen because Sora and Ven are a two for one deal at your local vessel vendor, which again means that Xehanort could easily have been alluding to that fact. Also I don't think the darkness could of effected Ventus as his heart is pure light and as we saw he was able to blast all the darkness away temporarily, and was perfectly fine the entire time.
 

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Assuming he is talking about Terra. It's the most likely case but they did leave it intentionally vague and the wording makes it sound like Sora and the other were both acquired at roughly the same time. "Sora and another on your list belong to me now" doesn't make it sound like it was someone acquired long ago in the past. That's why personally I felt like that line was actually hinting towards Ventus. Because in order for Ventus to be a light they need to reunite his heart and body, which they can't do if they don't have his heart which is held within Sora. So by Xehanort stealing Sora he had also stolen Ventus, preventing either of them from being a light.

I kinda doubt that. I don't think it's ever been implied that Xehanort knew that Ven had taken up residence in Sora's heart. And I always got the feeling that "Sora and another on your list belong to me now" was referring to how Sora and unnamed individual were going to be used as darknesses/vessels. Half-drowning Sora's heart with darkness and engulfing it with Xehanort's would've taken out Ven, Roxas, and Xion all at once, but I don't think it would've 'norted any of them.

And you can prove he meant that how exactly? Also why does Ven rescuing Sora matter at all since again that's only something that was able to happen because Sora and Ven are a two for one deal at your local vessel vendor, which again means that Xehanort could easily have been alluding to that fact. Also I don't think the darkness could of effected Ventus as his heart is pure light and as we saw he was able to blast all the darkness away temporarily, and was perfectly fine the entire time.
If Xehanort wanted to use Ven, he'd have to find his body in Castle Oblivion first. The only reason Xehanort tampered with his vessels' hearts was to make the whole hostile takeover process easier for himself. Ven's body is already without a heart; messing with said heart further would have been redundant, and based on DDD's ending scene, Ven's body is still snoozing in Castle Oblivion.

I sometimes wonder if Sora would've been able to be recovered if Ven's armor hadn't been there to protect him when it did.
 
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It's confirmed since BBS that only Aqua can get to Vens body right now. Both by an interview even I remember and by Eraqus' own words as Aqua remembers them.
The only way Ven could be on that list is if Vanitas, or part of him, was still in the body and has since taken it as his own.

We also know that at least up until days the body was still in the Castle as well since Vens body along with Sora's presence is what caused Roxas to collapse when entering.

Edit. And like Osprey just said DDD pretty much showed that wasn't the case.
Edit. Sooorrrrrttttaaaa skimmed this so hopin I didn't read wrong, got somebody talkin in my ear here.
 

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Here is the thing you're sort of assuming Xehanort was saying both the people on his list were vessels and that's not what he said. What he said is that two of the people Mickey listed belong to him. By stealing Sora he stole Ven, both of them at that moment belonged to him, and thus neither of them could be a light even if only Sora was able to be a vessel it keeps Ven's heart from being able to be returned.

Also I'm pretty certain Xehanort is more than aware of Ven's heart being in Sora. He's basically a genius and would have likely realized it the moment he saw Sora's Nobody is Ven's twin. He probably could also sense Ven's heart inside of Roxas/Sora or heck seeing as he scanned Sora's memories in KH1 it's quite possible he learned right then and there what transpired. Of course the fact Vanitas is also Sora's twin also is pretty good indication, and Sora having two keyblades is even more evidence. Really there are so many signs screaming it and Xehanort is one of the few people to have seen all the signs it's hard to imagine he couldn't put it together. Especially since fans had put it together long before BBS was even out.
 

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I'm guessing your talking to Osprey? I've seen similar ideas to this one before and it's honestly just as possible. DDD all but confirmed Vens body is still safe but the "two" comment could've meant Sora and Vens heart.

Meh either way I'd honestly enjoy it more of Terra was brought back as some wildcard rather than Xehanorts puppet. SO much of this series has been theorized and figured out early that I'd love to see something that's actually a twist. =__=
 

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I kinda doubt that. I don't think it's ever been implied that Xehanort knew that Ven had taken up residence in Sora's heart. And I always got the feeling that "Sora and another on your list belong to me now" was referring to how Sora and unnamed individual were going to be used as darknesses/vessels. Half-drowning Sora's heart with darkness and engulfing it with Xehanort's would've taken out Ven, Roxas, and Xion all at once, but I don't think it would've 'norted any of them.


If Xehanort wanted to use Ven, he'd have to find his body in Castle Oblivion first. The only reason Xehanort tampered with his vessels' hearts was to make the whole hostile takeover process easier for himself. Ven's body is already without a heart; messing with said heart further would have been redundant, and based on DDD's ending scene, Ven's body is still snoozing in Castle Oblivion.

I sometimes wonder if Sora would've been able to be recovered if Ven's armor hadn't been there to protect him when it did.
Thank you for proving my point
 

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Here is the thing you're sort of assuming Xehanort was saying both the people on his list were vessels and that's not what he said. What he said is that two of the people Mickey listed belong to him. By stealing Sora he stole Ven, both of them at that moment belonged to him, and thus neither of them could be a light even if only Sora was able to be a vessel it keeps Ven's heart from being able to be returned.
Valid point. Yes, I am assuming that Xehanort was talking about the vessels. But some of the stuff you said, like this:
Sora and Ven are a two for one deal at your local vessel vendor
implied that you thought the same. Not disagreeing that taking out Sora would've taken out Ven too... heck, it was the first things I realized after Sora's story ended. It's taking out four birds with one stone. It's all a matter of interpretation~
 
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